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good title, before he could ask to parti- | his great speech delivered thirty years ago cipate in the benefits proposed to be given in the other House having laid the foundato him by that kind of legislation. It was tion for most of the subsequent improvenot a mode in which bad titles could be ments. That speech was followed by the turned into good. Before quitting that appointment of a Commission, who made branch of the subject he wished to point an elaborate Report, which was succeeded out the difference between real property by an equally elaborate Bill, in which and personal property, because some per- the question of a general registry of sons thought that there was no distinc-deeds was brought before Parliament. tion between them, and that land ought That measure was not passed, but the to be transferred as easily and as simply question came before Parliament five as stock or a £100 bank-note. He de- times between 1830 and 1834. It then nied that there was any analogy between slept for a while, and then was again the two kinds of property. The title to revived in that House, but was not apland must be as fixed and stable as the proved. A subsequent reintroduction_of land itself, but other property was not the subject led to a Commission, a Reof a nature to admit of so fixed a title. port, and a Bill, which passed the House Take, for instance, 3 per cent stock; that and was sent to the other House. When was only an engagement on the part of the the noble and learned Lord opposite (Lord Government to pay so much money until Cranworth) succeeded to the Great Seal the debt was redeemed. There was nothing he also introduced a measure upon this subtangible about it-nothing but a piece of ject. He (Lord St. Leonards) had been for paper. One estate was not quite the same thirty years a consistent opponent of a as another, but £1,000 stock was as good general registry, not because he objected as another £1,000. If a man has £1,000 to it in itself, but because he was convinced stock he can from time to time sell a por- that the evils arising from it would more tion of it to meet his engagements; but if than balance the benefits to be expected he has a real estate he cannot so readily from it. He had opposed it when out of sell off a field or a farm, and therefore he Parliament with his pen, and when in mortgages the whole, and thus the title be- the House with his voice and his vote. comes involved with incumbrances. There The Bill, however, passed their Lordwas an essential difference between the ships' House; but when it reached the two classes of property. There is also a House of Commons a great change of marked distinction not simply between the opinion had taken place, and they would quantities of interest in real estate but be- not even look at it. Another Royal Comtween the qualities of that interest. If a mission was issued, and they unanimously man has the legal interest, without the rejected the idea of registration of deeds. intervention of a trustee, he may lease, The proposition of the Commissioners of mortgage, or sell his estate, and himself 1857 was a registry, not of deeds, but of transfer his legal estate; but if his estate title, and they were of opinion that it was is vested in a trustee, although he has the fitting and desirable that power should be equitable or beneficial interest, the legal given to grant an indefeasible, or, as it estate is in the trustee, and he alone can was called, a Parliamentary title. They transfer it. Our ancestors struggled long thought that upon a man submitting to prevent the separation of the legal his title to a prima facie examination estate from the actual ownership; but in he should be put upon a register as modern times it is not so important, be- owner of the fee simple, but that he should cause the trust appears on the instrument not thereby acquire an indefeasible title, vesting the legal estate in the trustee, and but that his title should remain subject to it is rarely that any mischief arises. This all the charges and equities attaching to it separation of the legal and equitable es- at the time of registration. The Commistates their Lordships would presently find sioners, however, thought that there might bears powerfully upon the measure now be cases where, under certain circumbefore them. There had been many stances, a Parliamentary title might be schemes propounded with a view to fa- conferred, and they proposed that when it cilitate the obtaining titles to land, and had been shown that a title was good the nothing could be more desirable than such owner might obtain a warrant upon payan object. His noble and learned Friendment of a small premium to the country. (Lord Brougham) had been the pioneer of all modern improvements in that direction,

Thus the country would open an insurance office for granting titles upon payment of

men.

money. If the plan of the Commissioners was beset. The first point to be conof 1857 was adopted, there would be two sidered, in case an indefeasible title were sorts of registered owners-one without granted, was by whom it was to be conan indefeasible title, and the other with a ferred. The Commissioners were entirely Parliamentary title to be binding on all opposed to the creation of a new Court They also thought that registration for the purpose; nor could they be more should not be compulsory; but that, once indisposed than he was himself to the adopon the register, you must remain there for tion of such a course. The legal tribuall time. He should now proceed to put nals of the country had within his own their Lordships in possession of the grounds time so much increased in number that upon which the Commissioners based their it was extremely inexpedient, unless some objections to the granting of a Parliamen-urgent necessity for doing so could be tary title to the land. They said :

"It would, we think, be oppressive either, on the one hand, to require claimants out of possession to come forward and make assertion of their rights in order to avoid losing them, or, on the other, to put the persons in possession to the defence of their rights as against any stale claims or assertions of right that might be set up. We do not think that, in order to pass from our present system to a register of title, it would be necessary to create a jurisdiction in Commissioners applicable to all land, whether incumbered or not,

similar to that of the Incumbered Estates Court

shown to exist, to augment them to any greater extent. He was, however, at the same time bound to say that if an indefeasible title were to be given, it appeared to him the Government was right in confiding the duty of granting it only to competent hands, and he should, under those circumstances, offer no opposition to the constitution of the proposed new Court. Indeed, one of the grounds of his objection to the measure of his noble and learned in Ireland, by which an absolute or Parliamentary Friend (Lord Cranworth) last Session was, title to the land, subject to leases or tenancies, that the Court of Chancery had so large should be declared. On the contrary, we concur an amount of business to dispose of that in the opinion that to make a judicial or quasi- it could not satisfactorily discharge the adjudicial examination of title an indispensable pre-ditional duties which, under the operation liminary to admission to register would greatly narrow the benefits of registration." Such were the views of the Commissioners on the subject; but there was one other passage in their Report to which he wished briefly to call their Lordships' attention. It was as follows:-

of the Bill, it would be called upon to perform. He also observed that he saw no reason why, if an indefeasible title could be granted by a particular Court on the occasion of the sale of real property, it might not be conferred, although an immediate sale should not be in contempla"We think that a compulsory investigation of tion. With respect to the question of a title, though only required as a preliminary to register, he could only say that any reregistration, would be highly objectionable, and gister which should be established ought, we do not recommend it. It would involve, as has been pointed out in the evidence before us, the in his opinion, to be metropolitan. The necessity of having every title to every acre of Commissioners had, it was true, in dealland thoroughly investigated by a competent judicial tribunal. It would be distasteful to landowners, who would be very reluctant to disclose their titles, and it would occasion the bringing forward of many stale and ill-grounded claims, would give rise to litigation, and would, when com pleted, be of no practical benefit to any, except to those who contemplated selling their estates. It is also to be borne in mind that many persons in quiet possession of land have bought it under special or restrictive conditions of sale, which have precluded them at the time of their purchasing from calling for strict or proper evidence of the title, and have limited them to some short period of the title in their investigation of it. It would, we think, be highly unjust to call upon persons in such a situation for strict and technical proof of their title, such as alone any public authority charged with certifying titles ought to

be satisfied with."

The two passages which he had just read pointed out, he thought, very forcibly the difficulties by which the whole question

ing with the subject, recommended that
it should be both metropolitan and local.
They would give to the metropolis its own
register, and would also have one consti-
tuted in each of sixty or seventy locali.
ties throughout the country. The rea-
sons, however, which had induced the
Commissioners to make such a proposition,
and which were based upon the supposi-
tion that an indefeasible title to land was
not generally to be granted, would have no
existence if the Bill of the Government
were passed into law. In fact, it would
be impossible, under the operation of that
measure, to spread throughout various dis-
tricts, as it were, a network of persons
possessing that degree of knowledge and
experience which, in order to carry its pro-
visions satisfactorily into effect, it would
be desirable to secure.
Now, no such diffi-

culty stood in the way of carrying out the proposal of the Commissioners, and he could not help thinking that it would be better, under the altered circumstances of the case, that the scheme of the Government on the subject should be withdrawn than that it should go beyond the establishment of a metropolitan register; but the Government should be prepared for a determined struggle to obtain local registries. As to the indefeasible title itself which it was proposed to give, he did not know how it could be granted with perfect safety; but he should briefly draw their Lordships' attention to the precautions which were adopted by Her Majes ty's Ministers in order to guard against its being rashly and wantonly conarmed. The measure of the Government in the first place proposed that any person desirous of securing such a title should make application with that view to the Court.

LORD CRANWORTH said, he must beg leave to call his noble and learned Friend to order. No course could, in his opinion, be more inconvenient than that which the noble and learned Lord was pursuing. He had given notice that he proposed to call the attention of the House to the Report of the Commissioners on Registration of Title, and, instead of confining himself to that subject, had proceeded to comment upon a measure which had been introduced in the other House of Parliament, but which had not as yet been laid upon their Lordships' table. It so happened, indeed, that he had himself seen a copy of that measure, and so, perhaps, had his noble and learned Friend, while it must, of course, have been brought under the cog nizance of his noble and learned Friend on the woolsack; but it was probably not seen by any other Member of the House, and under those circumstances he believed that nothing could be more irregular than the attempt then made by his noble and learned Friend to enter into an examination of its provisions.

LORD ST. LEONARDS continued:He did not think he had been guilty of any irregularity in taking the course which he had adopted; but, in order that his noble and learned Friend might not be shocked, he should suppose that certain propositions had been made by the Commissioners in question, and should proceed to comment upon them. The public mind ought to be prepared for the measure, and to be enlightened with regard to it, and he should have thought that nothing would have been

more desirable than to lead the country to talk over the matter, and to consider the great change in the law which was proposed. Thus, for example, it would be well to remember the great caution which must be shown in granting an indefeasible title, and the delay which would necessarily ensue from the exercise of that caution. A person who desired an indefeasible title must apply to the new Court, must furnish it with an abstract of title, or, in other words, with evidence of ownership, and must prove to the satisfaction of the Court that he had been in possession for at least five years. This would occupy, say two months. If the Court entertained that application, it would then be necessary to publish advertisements, and to post notices round about the property in question to apprise people that the owner had applied for an indefeasible title. That would occupy some two months more, and the Court would then, he supposed, address themselves to a solid, serious investigation of the title, and if they approved it they would make a provisional order that it should be deemed indefeasible at the end of twelve months, unless meanwhile an opposing claimant came forward. Here, then, would already be some sixteen months of delay. At the end of the twelve months all parties interested would, by new postings and advertisements, be invited to attend, and if a final order were made in favour of the title that order must not operate until the expiration of three months longer, in order to give claimants an opportunity of appealing. Thus nineteen months would be consumed before a final and operative order was obtained. But an appeal was given to the Court of Chancery, which would perhaps occupy three months more, and after that there might be an appeal to the House of Lords, which could hardly occupy less than fifteen months; so that, if no impediment were presented, an indefeasible title could only be acquired at the end of nineteen months, while if the right of appeal were made use of the process might occupy some three years. When, too, they remembered that the new court had the power of sending issues to be tried in a court of law, it was evident that the investigation, working itself into litigation, might be from first to last longer and more complicated than under the old system. In instancing these difficulties, he must not be considered as finding fault with the plan which had been submitted, but only as showing what were the obstacles in the way of doing that

which the Legislature were now attempting | ments in order that land might be transto do. And what was really proposed? ferred like stock; nor is there any anaWhy, when an indefeasible title was ap-logy between this case and the case of plied for, every man was to be called upon a feudal tenant, who was obliged to perto come forward and oppose it. Fancy the form his services for his Lord. The real alarm of an owner who found notices owner's settlement would confer only an posted up at his gate inviting everybody equitable estate, and those who took uuder who thought he had a claim to appear at it could not sell or lease, or do anything, such a time and such a place to prefer it, except by virtue of their equitable title. or otherwise to be for ever barred from The legal fee would always be vested in doing so! This would be to rouse the sleep- the registered owner. In case of encuming lions who lurked round many men's brances and settlements a man interested estates, and to call forth every imaginable in them must take care that there were kind of claimant, and just advert to the caveats and inhibitions, or he might lose position of a man whose title has been re- his property, and it might happen that jected. Then it should be remembered through the carelessness or dishonesty of that while the Bill would empower the a clerk a caveat or inhibition would not owner to make every claimant come for- be registered. Under such a system a man ward and make his claim, or else be for would not have that enjoyment of his proever barred, there was no power by which perty which he now possessed. At prethe claimant could make the owner enter sent, if a man make an ordinary settleinto litigation. Thus the whole subject ment of his estate he is really unaware, was surrounded with difficulties-difficulties although only tenant for life, that he has which might possibly be softened, but of settled it, for he still has every possible which, at all events, it was right that their enjoyment of it. We can but enjoy our Lordships and the country should be tho- property during our lives, although we may roughly aware. But now, suppose that a have the fee simple in it. And now the man had acquired through the Court an in- law protects such a settlement. A man defeasible title. The main difficulty would may sit at home at ease, without inquiry then begin. No one must appear on the and without danger; but if his estate is register unless as an owner in fee simple. on the register, he must allow some other Now, there would always be an ambiguity person to appear on the register as owner as to the character of the man who was of it, and he must be on the watch against put on the register as the first proprietor, misconduct, and ascertain that by caveats because he might be the mere nominee of or inhibitions that he is so far secure that some one else, and might have no interest if his nominee attempt to sell or mortgage in the estate, or he might be the owner; but notice will be given to him, and he may this the register would not show. Suppose come forward to protect his rights. Of a man became an owner in fee simple and course he could not, as now, grant legal was so registered, he might then wish to leases or the like, for he would have only make a settlement of his estate according an equitable estate. No man with a good to the every-day practice; but in such a title need go to the new Court; no one case he must come off the register, be- with a bad title can, or, at least, ought to cause, under the settlement, he would succeed there. No estate in settlement, merely be tenant for life. Some other or about to be forthwith put in settlement, person must then be named as the regis- could have any benefit from it. Having tered owner, and that nominee would have gone thus far into the question, he would the right to sell the entire estate if he say no more than that the question was one chose to do so. The owner of a vast es- of great importance as affecting the station tate would hardly like to have John Doe and property of individuals, and he had had or Richard Roe registered as the absolute but one object, which was to assist in pointowner of it. The scheme is to separate ing out the dangers which surrounded the the legal and equitable estates, and always proposed Court and Register. to have a legal owner of the fee on the register, although he may not have any beneficial interest in the estate. This is said to be demanded by the spirit of commerce, but the spirit of commerce would not require their Lordships, and other landed proprietors, to sacrifice their settle

THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, that he had taken occasion the other night, when some remarks were made in reference to a Bill not then before their Lordships, to observe, and as it seemed to him with the concurrence of their Lordships, on the great inconvenience of anticipating mea

sures which were to come before the House and learned Friend, and his experience in at some future time, and of inviting a ge- all matters connected with the titles to neral discussion which could lead to no land, made him, of course, a great aupractical result; and, with great deference thority on all these things; but their Lordto his noble and learned Friend, he must ships must observe, that the question of repeat that observation on the present oc- facilitating the transfer of titles and the casion. The course which his noble and registration of titles was not a legal queslearned Friend had adopted appeared to be tion, but was a question of expediency and not only inconvenient, but highly irregular, of social policy, on which many of their for the greater part of the noble and learn- Lordships were quite as competent to ed Lord's observations were directed to decide as his noble and learned Friend. Bills which at present were in the other With respect to the remarks made in reHouse of Parliament, and he believed that ference to the Report of the Commissions it was contrary to their Lordships' rules on the registration titles in 1857, he trustto notice any such measures, and much ed that all their Lordships who took interest more to discuss them and consider them in in the subject would read that Report caredetail. His noble and learned Friend fully, because they would find that its reseemed disappointed that these measures commendations had been embodied in the were not introduced in the first place in measures proposed by the Government. And their Lordships' House, and seemed to who framed that Report? He did not mean have taken this mode of indemnifying him- to say that any one lawyer could be placed self for the loss of the opportunity which on an equal line with his noble and learned he would have had of addressing their Friend, but it was no disparagement to him Lordships if those measures had been ori- to say that, taking any two lawyers who ginally introduced into this House. Upon joined in that Report, they might be conthis point he would merely observe that it sidered to constitute an equal authority with was thought a proper division of labour in his noble and learned Friend. Upon that respect to the Government measures that Commission were his right hon. Friend the a certain portion should first be originated Secretary of State for the Home Departin their Lordships' House, and that another ment, the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, Sir portion should be originated in the other R. Bethell, and other lawyers of considerHouse; and he thought he had undertaken able eminence, together with practical men a task quite sufficient for himself in intro- of business, the present Speaker of the ducing the Bankruptcy Bill and the Bill House of Commons, Mr. Lowe, and a for winding up joint-stock companies. His solicitor of considerable eminence. noble and learned Friend would, perhaps, these persons united in the Report to which as some atonement for the irregularity he his noble and learned Friend had directed had committed, allow that the speech made their Lordships' attention, and which he that evening should be taken as applicable trusted would be carefully considered before to the measures commented on when they the Bills, to which allusion had been made, came before their Lordships, and his noble came up to that House for discussion. The and learned Friend would then, probably, giving a Parliamentary title and the regisgive the House the benefit of his great ex-tration of that title were two matters perience and learning, not in discussing the general principles of the Bills, but in improving the details and making them as perfect as possible. He did not understand whether his noble and learned Friend stated that he was not opposed to every system of registration. [Lord St. LEONARDS: I am not opposed to every system.] He was glad to find that his noble and learned Friend so expressed himself, because he had collected from his noble and learned Friend's works, and from that valuable book lately published-which, as it was intended, was eminently practical, and was in everybody's hands-that his noble and learned Friend was of a different opinion. The great learning of his noble

All

totally distinct, though they sometimes ap-
peared to be confused together.
might be a registration of title without a
Parliamentary title, and a Parliamentary
title without registration. If Parliament
determined, however, to follow the plan
pursued with such success in Ireland, and
to give a Parliamentary title in England,
then, as a complement to such a measure,
it would be necessary to have a registration
of that title. He felt a difficulty either in
entering into a discussion at the present
moment or in waiving that discussion after
the speech of his noble and learned Friend.
He thought it, however, infinitely better
not to follow the most inconvenient and
most irregular course adopted by his noble

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