Abbildungen der Seite
PDF
EPUB
[ocr errors]

could desire, he was convinced would not produce unanimity in the country. At all events little would be gained if in conciliating the catholics, government should lose the veneration of the protestants.

Lord Carysfort considered the doc rine which had been laid down by the noble lord who spoke last, as the most extraordinary and most dangerous which he had ever heard in that House. Noble lords on, the other side had admitted that the breach of law which they had committed, and for which they now sought to be indemnified, was occasioned entirely by the dissolution of Parliament which they had advised. It was incumbent on them, therefore, to shew, that the inconveniences and violation of law which that step produced, were more than counterbalanced by the advantages on the other side, or that the measure adopted by them was of mere necessity. They had all wed acts to operate after the time limited for their endurance, and they had violated those principles which bad laced his majesty's family on the throne. In palliation of this conduct he had heard nothing, nor was even a shadow of necessity, at least so far as the country was concerned, pointed out. Taking a view of the causes which gave rise to the late change, his lordship observed, that Lord Bacon had said, that to lead on men from hope to hope, and still to keep them from despair, was the sign of a great statesman. How very different were the ideas of the present ministers! The noble and learned lord would employ Roman Catholics neither in civil nor military affairs; he would exclude them from the service of the state either by council or arms. The noble and learned lord seemed also to forget that we passed acts annually dispensing with those very statutes which the noble and learned lord reckoned so material a part of our constitution. If we looked abroad to the dangers which threatened us we must see that this was the moment in which we were most peculiarly called on to interfere. It was impossible that the Roman Catholics, if not enemies to the state, could be as well affected to it as if they enjoyed equal rights with others.

Lord Limerick wished to know what was that unde-. scribed something so often alluded to, but not openly spok en out by the noble lord (Grenville). Did he mean that we should now go to the catholics in forma pauperis; should confess that what we had refused to them when our enemy

was

was in the east, we were then wrong in withholding, and were ready to grant now he was returned to the west; and that we were now ready to hug the catholics to our bosoms, and to grant all that we had lately refused? Did the noble lord wish this? Did he really think such a conduct would do good? He was happy, however, to understand, that the wordy contest was now over, and that the members of that House were at length to think of something besides debating.

Lord Holland argued strongly on the dangerous nature of the measure which had been adopted, and by which money had been levied by the breach of two acts of Parliament. It was material in two important respects, inasmuch as it had been laid down by those who fought our great. and glorious battles in the days of Charles I., not merely that money should not be levied without an act of Parliament, but, that in order the better to ensure to us the government by king, lords and commons, and also to ensure to us the sitting of Parliament. Here, however, this valuable privilege had been infringed on, because Parlia ment was not agreeable to ministers. For the sole purpose of prolonging their own existence, ministers had been guilty of a gross breach of one of the great fundamental principles of the constitution. That this exercise of their advice was voluntary, not necessary, was apparent. What necessity had they attempted to state? They had stated much ministerial necessity, no doubt; but had they stated any thing in which their country was interested? The noble and learned lord (learned in the law, he had no doubt, in many respects, he was, for many who know him better than he (Lord Holland) could pretend to do, acknowledged him to be so) had, however, this night, shewn such gross ignorance of law, that were he to judge from the specimen he had just heard, he should be the yery last person to whom he (Lord Holland) should be inclined to apply the term learned. That noble lord had exhibited such a perversion of facts, such gross ignorance of the constitution, and of the law of this country, as could hardly have been expected from the most unlearned man not in the House, but in the country. What was the ne cessity which the noble and learned lord thought sufficient to justify a breach of law, and of the constitution, and which of course he professed his readiness to defend? Certain debates and divisions in both Houses of Parliament,

which embarrassed the ministers. Was it, then, to be held as a justification of such a measure, that at any time a strong minority has been found on a criminal charge against a minister? He would tell those who were not, as he had always been, friendly to reform, that such a doctrine as this was the most likely thing in the world to produce it, and to render it still more popular than it had yet been. It was impossible to read the speech at the dissolving of Parliament, and not to see that the catholic question was the subject on which the sense of the people was sought; and as had been said, it must be taken speedily. Yes, indeed, it must be taken while the garbled and mutilated extracts were fresh in the minds of the people. This was truly necessary, but it was necessary for the ministers, not for the country. He would tell the noble and learned lord, that if Parliament did not put an extinguisher on such language as that which had fallen from the noble and learned lord that night, that after having vanquished our foreign foes, we must look once more to our liberties. As to the observation of another noble lord (Limerick) whether it was meant that we should go in forma pauperis to the catholics to solicit their aid, he could not see why we should not. He could not agree in the doctrine that a time of distress was not a sime for redressing grievances, And he could not conceive any greater grievance that man could suffer than being denied the benefits of the constitu tion and common privileges of citizens. So far from seeing any indignity in making the advance, he was satisfied, the longer it was delayed, it would be made with the worse grace.

The noble lord contrasted the language of these men, who contended that the catholics had no reason to complain, as they were only excluded from political power, with their own conduct in so anxiously seeking after, and so tenaciously clinging to that description of power. In a happy strain of irony he animadverted on the manner in which the precept of those men was illustrated by their example. Having a philosophical contempt for power themselves, they would expect the catholics to adopt the same feeling; that they should consider it as no grievance whatever. But, in order to shew that exclusion from political power was to be constitutionally considered as a grievance, the noble lord quoted the resolutions of both Houses of Parliament, in the year 1702. As to the asser

[ocr errors]

tion so often made, that the attainment of catholic emancipation was impracticable, the noble lord could not patiently hear of it. Nothing could in his mind be more unconstitutional than to allude to any immoveable obstacle to the will of the legislature, in the accomplishment of a legislative act, and particularly before that act was brought forward. But even though such an obstacle existed, he thought that a declaration of Parliament in favour of the catholic claims, would have the best effects in Ireland. The indication of such an animus would materially tend to conciliate the Irish people; to reconcile them to present privation, by holding out the prospect of freedom at another time. The noble lord argued with peculiar force in support of this idea, and shewed by a variety of apposite observations how necessary it was, at the present crisis particularly, to impress upon the minds of the Irish people, that it was their interest to continue their connection with this country, by some satisfactory demonstration that Parliament was disposed to act more liberally towards them than the government of any other country was likely to do.

Lord Sidmouth observed, that the statement which had been made on this subject by his majesty's ministers, was so clear, that only one point remained to be explained, and that was, why the duties levied by the order of council were higher than those levied by the expired acts. Heal lowed that the law had been infringed, and consequently that a material inconvenience had been incurred. Was the order of council a measure of political necessity, which it would have been criminal in ministers not to advise his majesty to adopt? He thought it was. At the same time it was perfectly fair in those who disapproved of the dissolution, to tell ministers that they had put themselves into a situation, in which they were compelled to break the law, and that therefore they must abide by the consequences of their ill advice to his majesty to dissolve Parliament. Every faculty and energy of the country ought to be called forth in this momentous crisis; but nothing could give him greater alarm than to see such concessions granted to the catholics as seemed to be recommended by his noble friend who had just sat down. He contended that it was untrue to say we were a divided people. He had opposed the ca tholic measure, because he thought it pregnant with the utmost danger to the constitution; for, differing comVOL. I.-1807.

00

pletely

pletely from his noble friend on this subject, he owned, that he had always understood that protestantism and civil liberty were as inseparable as popery and civil liberty were incompatible. This country must have an established church, if it wished to preserve religion and morals; and what church was preferable to the protestant ?

Lord Redesdale was adverse to any further concessions to the Irish catholics, not so much on account of the ob jection he entertained against the catholic religion, as because there were certain political opinions which these catholics held to be religious. These opinions they adopted in consequence of their alliance with a falling political party in Ireland, and to the influence of that party might be attribu ed all the disturbances which had so long agi tated Ireland; and also all the difficulties which stood in the way of a complete conciliation with the catholics." Between the catholics of Ireland and those of this country, there did, the noble lord observed, exist a material difference in this respect. But he was sorry to perceive that of late years the English catholics seemed to have adopted too much of the political character of the Irish catholics, notwithstand ing the precedent and laudable resistance of some of their Jeaders. As the best means of more closely cementing the connection between Ireland and this cuntry, the noble lord earnestly recommended the speedy adoption of some measures to strengthen the protestant establishment in Ire land, which he thought in a very precarious state at present. The difference between the catholic religion in the two countries he conceived to be this, that in England it was felt to be a tolerated religion, while in Ireland it was the rival of the established church.

Lord Buckinghamshire said, that in rising at so late an hour, he felt the necessity of apologizing for trespassing upon the patience of the House, but the unexpected turn which the debate had taken, and the observations that had been made upon the sentiments he had delivered on a former occasion, rendered it impossible for him to diseharge his duty by a silent vote. The subject to which their lordships' attention had principally been directed, had little connection with the real question, viz. the act of indemnity; he should, however, so far advert to it, as to decre, that in his opinion the ministers had made out their case, and consequently that the proposed bill should have his support. In that part of the noble

baron's

« ZurückWeiter »