santry; for if these tythes were taken out of the hands of the clergy, they would then be paid to the landlord in the shape of an additional rent. If the principle of the Bill were followed up, it would equally lead to the exemption of the peasant from paying rent for his cottage, and ultimately to the destruction of all property.

Lord Desart, though hostile to this measure, was most anxiously desirous to obtain a fair commutation of tythes in Ireland.

Mr. Trench coincided in thinking that some measure of the sort alluded to by the noble lord, would contribute more to the tranquillity of Ireland, than any other that could be devised. The situation of the Irish peasantry was very little known by gentlemen in this country. On the acres, halves, or quarters attached to their cottages were raised the potatoes which formed the sole provision for their families. The rent was paid in labour to the landlord, and the poor people were subject to a kind of bondage, from which, under all the circumstances, they could hardly liberate themselves. The peasantry of this class were universally Catholics, and were consequently obliged to pay a variety of dues for the support of their own clergy. The dues for marriages, christenings, and masses for the dead, were considerable. He was far from wishing to rob the established Clergy of Ireland either of their property or their reputation. Many of them were laborious and exemplary men; but others of them, who possessed enormous livings, were mostly absentees. He himself had objections to the Bill, but thinking that they might be removed in a Committee, he should vote for the second reading. He was anxious that measures of conciliation should proceed with a good grace from the United Parliament. The people of Ireland were impetuous, headstrong and enthusiastic, but they might be led by kindness. A measure of this sort, to alleviate the hardships of the peasantry, would do much to destroy the influence of the factious and disaffected, who viewed with despair every thing that looked like conciliation. No man who had neyer been in Ireland could form an idea of the poverty of the peasantry in many districts of that country. Their habitation was generally a mud cottage, without even a bed, and the family was compelled to sleep upon the damp floor. There were some exceptions to this picture; but these proceeded, in most instances, from the attention of the landlords, and could not be represented as the general siVOL. III.-1812.

4 A

tuation. Could relief be administered by Parliament, the peasantry would be found a faithful and affectionate people, and all the factious agitators would be filled with despair. He trusted the House would excuse him for dwelling so long on this subject-(hear, hear !). It was the first time he had had the honour of addressing them; and he could not help thinking that by some modifications this Bill might be made exceedingly useful. Why, for instance, might not compensations be made for the losses which the Clergy might sustain through it, out of a parochial rate, or from the assessment levied by grand juries?

Lord Castlereagh gave great credit to the heart and head of the honourable gentleman who had just made a speech so honourable to his country and to himself. The misery of the lower orders in Ireland no one could deny, but honest men might differ as to the means by which that misery could be done away. The purpose for which he rose, was to defend the character of a Mr. Morgan, from whom he had that day received a letter, contradicting the statement made the other night by an honourable baronet (Sir J. Newport). He regretted that oppressive conduct should have been attributed to this gentleman of the Church, since it appeared that the statement was distinctly denied to be true. As to the question itself, it had no connection with the great question of commutation, and therefore should not have his support. He was friendly to the principle of commutation, if any practical plan could be devised; because that principle implied adequate compensation to the Clergy. The present Bill, however, went to a total withdrawal of certain property from the Church, and, as was said by an honourable gentleman, it was possible that in the end the operation of the Bill would be a transfer of property from the Clergy to the Landed Interest. He was entirely against any Bill which was founded on the idea of relieving the poor out of the property of any particular class of people, and not out of the public land.

Mr. Tighe spoke warmly in favour of the Bill. He contended, that no attack had been made by his right honourable friend on the character of Mr. Morgan. He had only read a notice, which was in the very hand-writing of that gentleman himself. If his character suffered, the blow came only from his own hand.-It was said, on the other side, that the greatest evil under which the poor of Ireland laboured, was the undue exaction of rents. He denied it.

He did not believe that the Irish gentlemen were more likely to make such exactions than the English: so different was the fact, that in many instances in Ireland he knew the tythe levied on the poor man to be equal to the whole of his rent. That an enormous evil existed from these tythes in Ireland, was admitted by every person except the learned Judge (Sir W. Scott). That learned gentleman said, that there was no evil, and also that there was no precedent for the Bill. These were his two objections. If the learned. gentleman had ever seen Ireland, the strong reality of distress would have so struck him, that he never would have made his first assertion: and as to his second, how did the case stand? The fact was, that there were no less than three precedents: 1st, All mountain and bog land was exempt from tythe for seven years after being reclaimed. 2d, Hemp was exempt from paying tythe above 5s. an acre; and 3d, all grass land was exempted from paying any tythe whatever. The operation of these exemptions was entirely in favour of the rich, and it was the poor alone, it appeared, for whom there could be no exemption. It was the rich grazier to whom the benefit of exemption was extended, while it was refused to absolute mendicity. He did not say, however, that the tythe on potatoes ought to be taken away without indemnification. He did not wish to injure the Clergyman, but to relieve the cottier. He wished to make the rich grazier, who was a Protestant, pay the Protestant pastor; not the poor peasant, who was a Catholic, and who had nothing to live upon but six-pence a day, and about half an acre of land. It was quite the custom for gentlemen to say that they wished to bind the lower orders of Ireland to the establishments in Church and State.-But how would they do so? Was it by cherishing the principle of disunion between the poor Catholic and the Protestant Clergyman? What community of feeling at present had they?— What acquaintance with any holy office of the Clergyman had the poor man, except a citation to the Bishop's Court? What instruction did he ever receive from him, except the mandate of the Tythe Proctor? Potatoes were almost the sole support of the cottier. How was the tythe on them collected? Why, in this way: The proctor goes to the cottier, who lives on the potatoes which he is obliged to dig from day to day to keep himself from starving, and says, "Give me a guinea for the tythe of your crop this year, or I shall serve you with a citation." If the money is not in

stantly paid, a mark is stuck in the ground, beyond which the poor man dare not dig until the business of the citation is over. What alternative has he, then, between exaction and starvation? He must either borrow or steal; and if he cannot borrow, he is driven either to ruin or to crime. Such was the situation of the Irish Catholic peasant, while it was notorious that the rich holder of grazing lands paid no tythe at all. He wished the Bill to go into the Committee, and there he thought the Bill might be so shaped as to give relief to the poor, and indemnity to the Church.

Mr. Bernard expressed his determination to support any measure that relieved the poor of Ireland from the oppression of tythes; and he conceived that no proposition went more to ameliorate the situation of that class of people that most wanted it than that now before the House. He wished it to be considered, that this small relief was not to come entirely from the Clergy, as there are many Lay proprietors in every county in Ireland, who by this measure would also contribute. He did not think that the Bill went far enough; and should it go into Committee, he should feel it his duty to propose, that all land that has not paid potato tythe heretofore should in future be exempt. In the county he repre sents, tythe has been forced from people in nine parishes on articles that never before paid tythe, and for the recovery of six shillings tythe, a man has been driven to twenty-six shillings cost. These new and unexpected demands, these dormant claims, must ever cause discontent. His honourable friend (Mr. Parnell) gave, the other night, the outlines of a plan for the general commutation of tythes, which plan he highly approved of, and hoped that it would be adopted, as it went to secure the Clergy in an easy and comfortable mode of being paid the full amount of their livings, and would ultimately release all classes from the burden and oppression of the tything system. The noble lord (Castlereagh) on a former night expressed himself favourably inclined to take the great subject of tythes under consideration next session; this induced him to recommend this Bill to be, for the present, withdrawn, with a view that it might be introduced on a more extended scale.

The question was put, and the amendment was carried without a division, that the Bill be read a second time on this day three months. It was accordingly thrown out. Adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

WEDNESDAY, JULY 8.

The Excise Bill, the Carnatic Commissioners Bill, the 5,000,000l. Exchequer Bills Bill, the Irish Treasury Bills Bill, the Muriatic Acid Bill, the Newfoundland Trade Bill, the West-India Intercourse Bill, and the Regent's Canal Bill, were read a third time and passed.

Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

WEDNESDAY, JULY 8.

LOCAL TOKENS.

A conversation of some length took place on the motion for reading the Local Tokens Bill a second time.

Mr. Huskisson observed, that local tokens of all descriptions (not excepting gold) were now, and had been long in circulation, and that wherever they prevailed the absence of Bank tokens was not felt at all as an inconvenience. The obvious tendency, however, of this system was to enhance the price of provisions universally; and although the present Bill might serve to check the evil in some degree, it was not to be concealed, that it gave the Bank the entire controul over the currency of the country. The price of silver had risen in the last year, from 5s. 11d. to 6s. 34d. and in the event of a bad harvest, an equal rise might be again ex pected.

Mr. D. Giddy expressed his hopes that the Bank would furnish the country with an ample supply.

Mr. Vansillart said, that in consequence of what had been said relative to gold local tokens, he should propose to reinsert the word "gold," which had been omitted in the Committee as unnecessary.

Sir S. Romilly suggested, as an amendment, that it would be an act of justice to the issuers of the local tokens, who had been at expence in the coinage, to extend the period to which their circulation was limited from 1813 to 1814.