than himself to reprobate it in the strongest terms. He thought, whenever this subject should be discussed, that nothing relative to the injustice or ill-conduct of the war ought to be alluded to, as it might make an impression on the public mind.

The earl of Guilford said, that the words "extraordinary and illegal" being offensive, he made no doubt but the noble duke would readily strike them out, as he held, under the present circumstances, the withholding of specie from foreign powers an indispensable measure.

The duke of Grafton urged the necessity of acceding to the motion, as the refusal of the house would have an evil tendency with the public at large. He thought they should assure the nation, that no more specie would be exported out of the kingdom till the sense of parliament should be taken upon it; and contended, that it was the duty of the noble secretary to state upon what grounds the present measure had been adopted. He approved of the words "extraordinary and illegal," from a conviction that they were applicable, and merited attention.

Lord Grenville said, as the subject was to be discussed the next day, he had no right to be called on for an explanation. His lordship argued, that the bank were not obliged to obey the order of council, though he could make it appear they acted highly proper for themselves and the public. He was ready, he said, to prove, that transmitting money to support our allies was strictly necessary, and attended with the most salutary effects to the country. He assured the house he would certainly vote against the present motion, as it tended to convey an insinuation against ministers, and to decide, in an indirect way, part of a

very important subject before the whole was considered.

The earl of Guilford replied, that neither he nor the noble duke meant to say any thing at present on the sums already sent to the emperor; but, as the bank were ordered to stop payment, he thought it impossible to justify the sending of specie from the country, and at the same time withhold it from those who have an undoubted claim on their own property.

The duke of Norfolk rose to notice the objectionable words contained in his motion, viz. "extraordinary and illegal," which he thought strictly applicable to the order of council; but had he supposed his motion would have met with a more favourable reception without them, they certainly should not have been inserted. His grace observed, that he must take the sense of the house on the whole of his motion. That the order of council was extraordinary and illegal, no person could deny, since it required the bank not to pay money to those individuals who presented their notes. It had been remarked, that the order of council was not binding upon the bank. His grace could not tell what was the extent of its jurisdiction; however, it certainly was an high constituted authority, and must produce great effect on those to whom its orders were directed. His grace concluded by asking the noble lord one question: Was it intended to send maney to the emperor of Germany?

The duke of Grafton observed, that answering this question, and assuring the house that no such thing was intended, must give the greatest satisfaction to the country; and it would not then be necessary to press his noble friend's motion to a division.

Lord

that the committee should be select and secret. Having thus explained the nature of his motions, he would not trouble the house with any farther observations.

The Duke of Grafton supported the address, and hoped it would pass nemine dissentiente; but wished it had not come before the house so suddenly, as it was almost impossible to form an opinion respecting it. The noble secretary of state had said something, to shew that his majesty's ministers were driven to this measure by imperious necessity. His grace made some pertinent remarks on the conduct of ministers in adopting so miserable an expedient, and said they had gone to the extreme length of a measure, founded in an assumption of power unknown to the laws and constitution of the country. Ministers being aware of this, would be obliged to have recourse to a bill of indemnity to legalize their conduct. For unless this act could be obtained, the bank directors were liable to an action from every individual to whom they refused payment.

Lord Grenville said, undoubtedly his majesty's ministers had undertaken a very arduous responsibility; they had adopted the measure which the order of council contained, on the ground of state-necessity, though the bank were not bound to obey that order. With regard to the bill of indemnity, it would be for their lordships, after the whole of the subject had been considered, to decide whether the bill of indemnity was necessary or not. His lordship admitted, that the measure could not be justified by the strict letter of the law, but thought it the duty of ministers to consider the interests of the public, and not to hesitate in adopting a measure which the exigency of the case required.

The earl of Guilford thought an act of indemnity absolutely necessary, at least for the directors of the bank and their clerks, who must act illegally, and be liable to actions. His lordship then adverted to the speech of the noble secretary, in the opening of which, he said, some of the noble lords had been disposed, in the preceding day's debate, to treat the measure harshly and with asperity: for his part he could not recal a single word he had uttered on that subject; he had forborne to give his opinion till he heard more of the reasons on which it was grounded. His lordship said, he had no objection to the first motion relative to the address. With respect to the second, there were parts of the inquiry which by no means required secrecy; on the contrary, they ought to be made as public as possible. His lordship had a strong objection to the committee being a secret one, as it was a mode of smuggling business through the house, and giving up the power of judging to nine individuals, however respectable they might be. If the bank were in such a flourishing state as it was represented, it ought to be laid before the public, to remove all ground of suspicion.

The earl of Liverpool approved of a secret committee, where subjects of a delicate nature were to be investigated. His lordship saw no ground for the noble earl's objection, as the committee would make their report to the house, and their lordships might determine upon it as they thought proper.

The duke of Grafton could not accede to the arguments of the noble earl relative to a secret committee, as the idea of secrecy conveyed something disagreeable and suspicious. He thought the subject ought to come openly before the house, that they might act upon it

indulging in a variety of reflections on ministers, in whom the house (he said) had been in the habit of placing implicit confidence, he returned to a consideration of the motion before the house, and was astonished that any individual should determine a national consideration of such immense importance, on the opinion of nine lords, however respectable. The words, as they now stood in the resolution, authorized the committee to report their opinion of the necessity of confirming and continuing the measure adopted by the bank in consequence of the order of council, which was neither more nor less, than that the bank should continue to stop payment, and to give only paper instead of cash, when payment in money was demanded, which was both inconsistent and alarming. His grace, therefore, moved, by way of amendment, to leave out all the remainder of the motion after the first part of it. He concluded by again asserting, that he was a friend to open discussion, as their lordships would be enabled by that to form a judgment of facts within their own knowledge, and to ascertain how much of the present calamitous state of the country was connected with the bank. grace moved his amendment accordingly.

His

Lord Auckland said a few words on the subject; and contended, that in matters of so delicate a nature as an inquiry into the affairs and solidity of the bank of England, common policy forbade a disclosure. His lordship, however, lamented the necessity of having the committee secret, as being a very unfortunate circumstance.

Lord Grenville rose to notice some of the observations made by the duke of Bedford, most of which

(he said) their lordships had heard refuted again and again. His grace had been pleased to reprobate the conduct of ministers in almost every instance, and had made use of language which was neither parliamentary nor decent. The noble duke had charged ministers with having themselves been the authors of ill-founded and exaggerated apprehensions relative to invasion; yet, in the same speech, it was not a little singular, where the noble duke charged ministers with raising false alarms, he mentioned two actual attempts of the enemy to invade this country. With regard to the noble duke's motion for an amendment, he should certainly oppose it, as it tended to take away an essential part of the original motion, and render the other of little use. Many arguments had been made use of to prove the advantage of a public and open inquiry relative to the affairs of the bank : but nothing that had fallen from their lordships on that subject had in the smallest degree changed his opinion; he was well assured, that exposing a subject of so delicate a nature would be dangerous in itself, and useless to the public.

The duke of Bedford rose to make some remarks, in answer to the noble baron (lord Auckland) relative to a secret committee. His grace concluded with declaring, that he should take the sense of the house on his amendment.

The duke of Norfolk. said, he had unfortunately not been present when the noble secretary of state opened the subject, and explained the grounds of his motion. He, however, strongly objected to a secret committee. He thought it was for the honour of the bank that there should be no concealment, if they were equal to all demands. His

grace