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H. OF R.]

Topographical Surveys.

[MARCH, 1830.

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bills were urged through on the last ten or | Gilmore, Gordon, Hall, Halsey, Hammons, Harvey, twelve days of the session. Of this system of Haynes, Hubbard, R. M. Johnson, P. King, Lamar, legislation he contended there was no necessity, Lewis, Loyall

, Lumpkin, Lyon, Magee, Martin, Mcas bills could as well be passed expeditiously in Coy, McDuffie, Mitchell

, Nuckolls, Powers, Richardthe middle of the session as at its close. "He son, Roane, Shepard, Speight, Standifer, Thompson warned new members that they would witness of Georgia, Tracy, Trezvant, Tucker, Verplanck, the same scene that old ones had become accus- Weeks, White of New York, Wickliffe—61 tomed to. He believed that the first month of Barbour, Barringer, Bates, Beekman, Bell, Bockee,

Nays.—Messrs. Anderson, Arnold, Barber, J. S. the session, on account of the holidays, was Borst, Bouldin, Brodhead, Buchanan, Burges, Butrendered nearly or quite useless; and if the session was to be shortened, it should be by meet- Condict, Cooper, Coulter, Cowles, Craig of Virginia,

man, Cambreleng, Chandler, Clark, Coke, Coleman, ing on the first Monday in January, instead of Crane, Crockett, Creighton, Crocheron, Crowninthe first Monday in December. The rules of shield, Davenport, Davis of Massachusetts, Deberry, the House did not properly regulate its pro- Denny, De Witt, Dickinson, Duncan, Evans of ceedings. They continued to make the bills Maine, Everett of Vermont, Findlay, Finch, Ford, the order of the day for to-morrow, while that Forward, Fry, Gaither, Goodenow, Gorham, Green, to-morrow never came. The resolution which Grennell

, Hemphill, Hinds, Hodges, Howard, they were now discussing, for instance, still Hughes, Hunt, Huntington, Ingersoll, T. Irwin, occupied the hour devoted to resolutions, to the W. W. Irvin, Isacks, Johns, Johnson of Tennessee, exclusion of all other business. The judiciary Kendall

, Kinkaid, King of New York, Lea, Le bill had been thrown aside for so long a period, compte, Leiper, Lent, Letcher, Mallary, Martindale, that he really had forgotten what question was tire, Monell, Muhlenberg, Norton, Overton, Pearce,

Thomas Maxwell, Lewis Maxwell, McCreery, McInin order on its discussion. This, too, (said Mr. Pettis, Pierson, Polk, Potter, Ramsey, Randolph, S.,) is the day on which the gentleman from Reed, Rencher, Rose, Russel, Scott, Shepperd, Tennessee (Mr. Bell) was to have introduced Shields, Semmes, Sill, s. A. Smith, A. Smyth, Spenhis bill upon the subject of our Indian relations. cer of New York, Sprigg, Stanberry, Sterigere, SteMr. S. concluded by expressing his conviction phens, Storrs of New York, Storrs of Connecticut, that, if gentlemen would come to the resolution Strong, Sutherland, Swift, Taliaferro, Taylor, Test, to cut short these interminable debates, lop off Thompson of Ohio, Vance, Varnum, Vinton, Wash. the first month of the session, assemble on the ington, Wayne, Whittlesey, White of Louisiana, first Monday in January, and look forward to Wilson, Yancey, Young—122. the first of May as the desirable period to return to their domestic affairs, the public busi

Topographical Surveys. ness would be more faithfully performed, and

The bill making appropriations for certain the deprecated evil corrected.

surveys, &c., was then taken up for a third Mr. CAMBRELENG agreed with his colleague reading. (Mr. STORRS) that the proper mode of shorten

Mr. WICKLIFFE moved to amend the bill in ing the session was to take from the first part the clause appropriating money for surveys, by of it; but ke could not join in the charge which adding a proviso, that the sum appropriated had so frequently been made against this House, should be expended on works heretofore diparticularly of a want of energy and industry rected, or which may be directed, by either He would defy any member, no matter how House of Congress. long he might have held a seat on that floor, to

Mr. Clay expressed a hope that the limitapoint to any former session when twenty and tion would not be adopted, and asked for the thirty bills had been passed in a day in the yeas and nays on the question. middle of a session, as was the case on Friday

At the suggestion of Mr. MoDUFFIE, Mr. and Saturday last.' It seemed to be the partic-Clay withdrew his call for the yeas and 'nays, ular desire of some members most unjustifiably which was immediately renewed by Mr. Wi0Kto find fault with this Congress in distinction LIFFE. of all others. While he was up, he would ask

The yeas and nays were then ordered. the gentleman from . Massachusetts (Mr. EVER

Mr. ELLSWORTH expressed his hope that the ETT) to modify his amendment so as to fix the amendment would not be adopted. He retermination of the first session, hereafter, at the minded the House that it had been customary 15th of April; which was accepted.

to pass an appropriation of this kind annually; Mr. EVERETT accepted the modification.

and he desired that it be applied on the usual The previous question was then demanded, principle—that the same discretion which had and the House ordered the main question to be been hitherto given to the proper department put.

in the disbursement of this money, should still The main question, being on the passage of be given to them. He argued against the prothe resolution, was then put, and decided in posed change as inexpedient, unjust, and unthe negative, as follows:

reasonable. Yeas.-Messrs. Alston, Angel, Bailey, P. P. Bar.

Mr. McDUFFIE repeated the objections he had bour, Barnwell, Baylor, James Blair, John Blair, urged against this limitation at the last session, Boon, Brown, Cahoon, Campbell, Chilton, Claiborne, when a similar proposition was gatived by a Clay, Conner, Crawford, Daniel, Desha, Doddridge, vote of four to one. If this limitation should Drayton, Dudley, Dwight, Earú, Ellsworth, Foster, 1 be adopted, every member will have his own

March, 1830.]
Topographical Surveys.

[H. OF R. peculiar project carried through, or no propo- At the suggestion of Mr. McDUFFIE, Mr. sitions will pass. Complaint had been made TUCKER withdrew his motion to amend. that the works begun were not national, yet it The amendment moved by Mr. MARTIN to was proposed to compel the Government to the amendment was then negatived. complete them instead of taking up others Mr. P. P. BARBOUR suggested a modification which might be national. It was therefore an of the amendment so as to strike out the words unreasonable proposition, and he hoped it “either House of,” so as to read-shall be diwould not be adopted.

rected by Congress. Mr. WICKLIFFE defended his amendment, on Mr. WICKLIFFE declined to accept the modithe ground generally of the abuse which the fication. present mode led to, the unimportant nature of Mr. P. P. BarboUR then moved his proposithe works which it enabled members to pro- tion as an amendment. cure to be undertaken, &c.

Mr. Drayton stated that his opinion had alMr. Martin stated that, although opposed to ways been that the act of 1824, authorizing the system, he was still more opposed to the this expenditure for surveys, was unconstituamendment, in its present form. If the sys- tional. He consequently was opposed to all tem was to be continued, he was for leaving its appropriations for these objects; but he was in exercise where it was now, to the Executive, favor of the amendment for reasons he statedand to keep this House as clear as possible of the chief of which was, that it would tend to the contention and the agitation which it was prevent abuses in the execution of the act, and calculated to produce here. He then moved to contending that works beginning and ending in amend the amendment, by striking out “or the same State could not be deemed national, such as may hereafter be directed by either but many such under the present system had House of Congress."

been undertaken. Mr. ELLSWORTH thought this proposition was Mr. P. P. BARBOUR enforced the propriety of exceptionable. It seemed to contemplate that the amendment he had offered. The vote of whenever a proposition for any appropriation this House is the vote of the representatives of for any particular work is made, the subject is the people, while that of the Senate is the vote to undergo a discussion in this House; and of the representatives of the States; and he members are to be called on to decide, with wished to unite both. He declared himself utthe superficial knowledge they must be sup- terly opposed to the whole system, and every posed to possess, on the preference of making a scheme, survey, and appropriation under it. survey for a route here, over that for a route Mr. Mercer advocated the power of the there. He hoped, therefore, that the amend-Government to make these surveys, and the ment would not prevail.

practice which had prevailed under that powMr. TREZVANT made some remarks against er, denying peremptorily that it had led to any the commitment of a discretion to the depart abuses, although the allegation was so often ments as to the direction of any surveys. He repeated, and arguing that a work commencing wished to confine the appropriation to such and ending in a State might be, and often was, surveys as have been commenced, and that the strictly national, many cases of which he cited: House should afterwards decide on the propri- amongst others, he maintained that if a line of ety of new ones. He argued at some length in canals from Maine to Georgia was a national explanation of his views, and hoped the amend-work, any part of that line, however small, is ment of the gentleman from South Carolina national. The whole work cannot be comwould not be adopted.

pleted at once, it must be constructed in detail, Mr. Test here called for the previous ques- and in parts. The Buffalo and New Orleans tion, but the call was not seconded.

road he considered as national, whether it was Mr. Martin explained his own views, so as cut up in decimal parts, or viewed as a whole. to reinove a misconception which he thought He said he had carefully investigated the pracseemed to prevail as to his course.

tice of the department, and he believed it to be Mr. Hall opposed the whole system, the free from abuse. Even in a case which he had amendment, as well as the bill itself. If he four years ago considered the most doubtful, he took the amendment of Mr. Martin, the re- had subsequently satisfied himself that there mainder of Mr. WIOKLIFFE's amendment would was no ground for doubt. To objections on the contain enough to involve all his principles. score of local interests being too influential, he He could vote for none of the questions pro- replied that in time of war it was as important posed.

a power which regulated the direction of an Mr. Mercer suggested that many surveys army, as that which gives the direction of a had been ordered by Congress, which have not road. The western part of the State of New yet been commenced; and the effect of the York had entirely sprung up under the fosteramendment would be to relieve the Executive ing influence of the late war, as millions had of all responsibility whatever.

been expended there in consequence of the Mr. TREZVANT said a few words in explanation. march of troops.

Yet no

one contended Mr. TUCKER moved to strike out the enact that, in that case, the Government should be ing words, and called for the yeas and nays, controlled, lest the local interests of one section which were ordered.

should be preferred to those of another.

H. OF R.]
Buffalo and New Orleans Road.

[APRIL, 1830. Mr. AMBROSE SPENCER stated that the ques- | representatives give to the bill, I will ask the tion as to the power of the Government to indulgence of the committee, while I subunit make these surveys, was settled by the act of some of the views which have been impressed 1824, and that it was useless now to make it a on my mind in relation to it. The constitusubject of discussion. He was opposed to im- tional question which has been so frequently posing upon the present administration a limi- discussed in this House on former occasions, it tation which had not been imposed upon their is not my intention to notice. I consider it predecessors. He declared himself adverse to deliberately established by successive acts of the amendment to the amendment, as well as legislation for a series of years, and by public to the amendment. He expressed his concur- opinion, by which I do not wish to be underrence in the views which had fallen from the last stood to mean the opinion of a single congresspeaker, and controverted the idea that works sional district, nor of a State, but that great confined entirely to particular States were and abiding opinion of a majority of the people necessarily not national, cases of which he of most of the States of the Union, repeatedly cited.

expressed after long deliberation, resulting in Mr. Irwin, of Pennsylvania, expressed his a settled conviction that the constitution has hope that both the amendment of the gentle given to Congress full and complete control man from Kentucky, and that of the gentleman over the subject, limited only by their discrefrom Virginia, would be rejected.

tion, in legislating for the public welfare. Here Mr. Mallary contended that it was due to it should be suffered to rest, for the mind of man the President, who is at the head of the mili- cannot give it any additional light. It has tary force, to give to him an entire command been said, sir, that, at a former session of Conover those works which are connected with gress, it was only designed to make a national the military defence of the country. He could, road from this city to New Orleans, but that in the exercise of that power, lead to more full the friends of the measure, despairing of being and more satisfactory results than we can ever be able to pass the bill in that shape, determined brought to by listening to the contending claims to enlist other interests, and that the sectional of conflicting interests in the House. There feelings of the people of the interior of Pennwas no reason for imposing this limitation on sylvania could be brought into action, by exthe present Executive.

tending the road through that State to Buffalo. Mr. BARRINGER said, the adoption of the It was not left merely to inference, but it was amendment could only lead to a multiplication broadly asserted that the approbation of the of surveys; and he argued briefly to show the people of Pennsylvania to the measure could inexpediency of the amendments. Deeming it be obtained in no other way, and that the nauseless, however, to consume more time in de- tional interests would be the least part of their bate, he demanded the previous question-yeas concern. The assertion is unfounded; I trust 66. The number was insufficient.

I may be excused for saying that no part of this Mr. TUCKER asked for the yeas and nays on Union is less affected by sectional considerathe amendment of Mr. Barbour, but they were tions, more patriotic, or more truly devoted to refused.

the welfare of their country, than are the peoThe amendment to the amendment was then ple of Pennsylvania. They were among the negatived: yeas 72—nays 96.

first to maintain the true doctrine of our repubThe question was then taken on the amend- lican institutions; they cherish them as the ment of Mr. WICKLIFFE, and decided in the neg- means of individual happiness and national ative: yeas 75—nays 111.

prosperity, and they will struggle long before Mr. WILLIAMS asked for the yeas and nays they will suffer them to be impaired by refined on the third reading of the bill, which were and narrow constructions, The power to ordered: yeas 121—nays 64.

make roads and canals for national purposes, they have asserted to belong to this Govern

ment in their assemblies to discuss the question, THURSDAY, April 1.

by legislative enactments, and by the votes of Buffalo and New Orleans Road.

their representatives on this floor. For no self

ish purpose, sir, but because they believed, and Mr. COKE, of Virginia, delivered his views in still believe, that the prosperity of the country, opposition to the bill.

if not its very existence, depends upon the exMr. Irwin, of Pennsylvania, said, that the ercise of this power. That State has never remarks which had been made by several gen- asked from Corgress any thing for works of intlemen who had taken part in the debate, had ternal improvement, although she was the first induced him to depart from a resolution he had to embark extensively in them; she relied on formed, of merely giving a silent vote in favor her own resources, and has expended more of the bill. But (said Mr. I.) as I am not will-money on roads, bridges, and canals, than any ing that any portion of the people of my native other State in this Union. When it is recolState shall remain under the imputation of be- lected that she has been second only to another ing influenced solely by local onsiderations, State in her contributions to the national revregardless of principle and the true interests of enue; that she has asked nothing, and got the country, in the support which they or their nothing, for works of a local character; when

APRIL, 1830.]
Buffalo and New Orleans Road.

[H. OF R. she has pressed upon this Government the ne- opposed to constitutional scruples or views of cessity of appropriating money for internal im- expediency, we have the declarations of several provements of national importance, there will gentlemen from Virginia who have taken part be no room to conclude that her people are in- in this debate in opposition to the bill. They Auenced by sectional considerations. No, her have said that, if the road were to pass through mpport to these measures has a nobler origin; their farms, they would oppose it; nay, one of deeply impressed with the importance of this them has gone so far as to say, while he comUnion to their safety and happiness, and be- plained of the unequal distribution of the publieving that its preservation depends mainly lic revenues which the system of internal imupon its facilities for internal commerce, they provement gave rise to, that the rights of his will always be found in favor of any means by State were violated by an appropriation of which objects so desirable can be best accom- money to a company which that State had inplished. Yet I claim for them no virtue that corporated for making the Dismal Swamp Cais not common to their fellow-citizens of other nal. Can we want stronger evidence of a disStates: for I must believe that the account interested spirit which would reject the paterwhich some of the gentlemen have given of the nal hand of the Government, which was exmeans by which certain people have been tended only to confer among its people its benbrought to advocate the bill before us, is drawn efits and its bounties? If so, there are kindred from the imagination. True, you find in every feelings, I am told, further south, and that at community a few who are lost to all sense of this session we shall have full proof of it. But public virtue, and whose sordid passions pre- it is unnecessary to add more to contradict aspare them for corrupt practices. But that any sertions unsupported by evidence. considerable portion of the people, whose dis- After listening to the arguments of the gentricts, as has been said, have no sooner present- tleman from Virginia, (Mr. BARBOUR,) who ed to them the golden bait, than they abandon opened the debate in opposition to the bill

, I fixed principles, and adopt new doctrines, and was forcibly struck with the contrast which that these feelings are communicated to their they presented to the sound doctrines of the representatives on this floor, who are moved old Virginia school. The Washingtons, the and governed by them, is what I am not will- Jeffersons, and the Madisons—the fathers of ing to credit. Such suggestions, made in this the republic. While their lessons of political body, with no better foundation for them than wisdom took deep and permanent root in Pennexists, lead to the most injurious consequences. sylvania, and in most of the States of this If opinions on constitutional questions are to be Union, they have been fated to be despised and bought; if men have become so flexible as to rejected by the modern politicians of the anbe swayed only by motives which address cient dominion. As early as 1790, President themselves to their private interests, what se- Washington, in fulfilling the constitutional incurity is there for the continuance of our re- junction to recommend to Congress such measpublican institutions ? Our whole political 'ures as he should judge necessary and expeedifice rests upon the virtue and intelligence of dient, says, " that the safety and interest of the the people; and, if it be once admitted, that all people require that they should promote such questions of constitutional power may be set- manufactures as tend to render them independtled by an appeal to the base and sordid pas- ent of others for essential, particularly military sions of our nature, we shall find, like the fool supplies," and "of giving effectual encourageish man, that we have built our house in the ment as well to the introduction of new and sand, and that in some party tempest it will useful inventions from abroad as to the exerfall to pieces. But these pictures of supposed tions of skill and genius in producing them at changes of opinion have been drawn from the home; and of facilitating the intercourse befancy. The great mass of the people, whose tween distant parts of our country.' Mr. Jefinterests were to be effected by internal im- ferson, in an unpublished letter to a near relaprovements, could not have been informed of tive of my friend and colleague, (Mr. LEIPER,) any constitutional impediments; and, if they dated in January, 1809, says that he had searched to satisfy themselves, they did not lately inculcated the encouragement of manufacfind any. In no condition of life are men prone tures, to the extent of our own consumption at to trouble themselves about matters which do least, on all articles of which we raise the raw not immediately affect them, particularly such material;" that "its enemies say that the iron as require labor to understand. But a spirit of which we make must not be wrought here into enterprise begets a disposition to inquire, and ploughs, axes, hoes, &c., in order that the ship that generally results in the expression of opin- owner may have the profit of carrying it to ions which many mistake for new doctrines in Europe, and bringing it back in a manufactured opposition to those which were supposed to form; as if, after manufacturing our own raw prevail. This is the most rational solution for materials for our own use, there should not be the continued increase of the friends of internal a surplus produce sufficient to employ a due improvement, without imputing to any portion proportion of navigation in carrying it to marof our people dereliction of principle. To show ket, and exchanging it for those articles of that the conferring of benefits canuot, in the which we have not the raw material.” In least, influence members on this floor, when 1815, the same gentleman, in substance, repeats

H. OF R.]
Buffalo and New Orleans Road.

[APRIL, 1830. the same opinions. Sir, I hope to be par- of Representatives for the appointment of a doned for noticing a subject in this debate committee to report a bill authorizing the Pres. which does not legitimately belong to it; but ident of the United States to cause to be examthe example was shown by several of the gen- ined, and, where necessary, to be surveyed, the tlemen who have spoken on the other side. In general route most proper for the transportatruth, the enemies of the protecting system in tion of the mail between Maine and Georgia, this House have, on several occasions, however with an estimate of the expense of making said unwarranted by the subject in discussion, in- road. On the third of May, of the same year, dulged themselves in no measured language in Mr. Madison presented the following bill, which denouncing the existing tariff. There seems to afterwards passed the House without a division : be a morbid sensibility in the minds of members from the South, on this question, which, United States be, and he is hereby, authorized to

Be it enacted, &c. That the President of the at least in my hearing, has hitherto prevented cause to be examined, and, where necessary, to be a dispassionate examination of it. Fortunately surveyed, the routes most proper for the transportfor its friends, experience has proved that a ation of the mail between the following places, to wiser act was never passed. Our latest advices wit: Portland, in Maine, Boston, New York, Philafrom abroad have inforrned us that in every delphia, Wilmington, Baltimore, City of Washingpart of Europe active measures are in operation ton, Alexandria, Fredericksburg, Richmond, Raleigh, for the protection of their domestic industry. Louisville, and Savannah, in Georgia; and that he Had we done nothing, therefore, to countervail cause a report of such examination and survey to foreign commercial regulations, our condition be laid before Congress, together with an estimate would have been worse than colonial vassalage. :f the expense necessary for rendering said routes Gentlemen, in depicting the effects of the tariff the established routes for the transportation of the

mail." policy, have been misled by imaginary evils, for the sake of maintaining favorite theories; The second section appropriates five thouwe know enough of human nature to be con- sand dollars for defraying the expenses of the vinced that the pride of opinion, like the pride examinations and surveys. of authorship, is often the ruling passion, and It will be seen, sir, that this bill not only that, rather than abandon dogmas which men provides for surveying the route of a road from have cherished and maintained from youth to one extreme of the then Union to the other, age, they would see the fairest portions of our passing through all its principal cities and land visited with decay, ruin, and desolation. towns, but it requires an estimate of the exTo what extravagant lengths have their meta- pense to be made for rendering the routes menphysical refinements upon constitutional power tioned the established routes for the transportaarrived? They say that we are not authorized tion of the mail. It contemplates, in clear lanto provide for the safety of our navy and mer-guage, the construction or making of post roads cantile marine, in entering our harbors, by the under the authority of Congress. Let me now erection of light-houses, beacons, piers, &c., nor ask whether the warmest advocate for internal to build safe and commodious harbors for them; improvement ever insisted on a greater latitude that we have no power to promote education, of constructive power of the constitution than literature, and science, by the appropriation of is contained in the principle of this bill. It not public money; that we cannot apply the public only goes the full length of all that we now funds to relieve individual calamity; that we contend for, but it sustains every position which cannot protect our domestic manufactures by has been disputed in this House heretofore. It impost duties; and, finally, that we have no authorizes surveys and the making of roads, and anthority to expend any part of the national it assumes jurisdiction without the consent of treasure in making roads and canals, nor even the States. When we consider that this extena right to aid, by appropriations, companies in- sive project was introduced but a short time corporated by a State ! Of what value would after the adoption of the constitution, and by a our Government be to us, stripped of these man who was chiefly instrumental in its creapowers? I am free to declare that it would tion, who labored to defend it with as much not answer the great purposes for which it was real and ability as any who lived, that it was instituted, that it would be unworthy the affec- adopted by a body, without a division, who tions of the American people, and that the probably better understood the extent of the sooner it was dissolved the better.

powers intended to be granted than any which Permit me, now, to turn the attention of the has succeeded it, will it be believed that it concommittee to a better commentary upon the tained an assumption of powers not granted, power of this Government to construct roads and that it violated the rights of the States ? for national purposes, than all the refined argu- It has been reserved for politicians of the presments we have heard from the other side. It ent day to make this discovery-men, whose has not been, I believe, before noticed since the ingenuity and eloquence we may admire, but session it was introduced into Congress. It whose nice and subtle distinctions, mystificamust be taken, considering the source from tions, and abstractions, cannot be easily underwhich it emanated, as conclusive on the con- stood by those who pretend to nothing more stitutional question. In February, 1796, Mr. than plain common sense. For us, who desire Madison introduced a resolution in the House nothing more than that the resources of our coun

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