SENATE.] The Bank Veto. institutions were emitting the actual currency of the United States a currency consisting of paper, on which they neither paid interest nor principal, whilst it was exchanged for the paper of the community, on which both were paid. We saw these institutions, in fact, exercising what had been considered, at all times, and in all countries, one of the highest attributes of sovereignty-the regulation of the current medium of the country. They were no longer competent to assist the Treasury in either of the great operations of collection, deposit, or distribution of the public revenues. In fact, the paper which they emitted, and which the Treasury, from the force of events, found itself constrained to receive, was constantly obstructing the operations of that department; for it would accumulate where it was not wanted, and could not be used where it was wanted, for the purposes of Government, without a ruinous and arbitrary brokerage. Every man who paid to or received from the Government, paid or received as much less than he ought to have done, as was the difference between the medium in which the payment was effected and specie. Taxes were no longer uniform. In New England, where specie payments had not been suspended, the people were called upon to pay larger contributions than where they were suspended. In Kentucky as much more was paid by the people in their taxes, than was paid, for example, in the State of Ohio, as Kentucky paper was worth more than Ohio paper. Considering, then, that the state of the currency was such that no thinking man could contemplate it without the most serious alarm; that it threatened general distress, if it did not ultimately lead to convulsion and subversion of the Government, it appeared to him to be the duty of Congress to apply a remedy, if a remedy could be devised. A national bank, with other auxiliary measures, was proposed as that remedy. Mr. CLAY said he determined to examine the question with as little prejudice as possible arising from his former opin ion; he knew that the safest course to him, if he pursued a cold, calculating prudence, was to adhere to that opinion, right or wrong. He was perfectly aware that if he changed, or seemed to change it, he should expose himself to some censure; but, looking at the subject with the light shed upon it by events happening since the commencement of the war, he could no longer doubt. He preferred, to the suggestions of the pride of consistency, the evident interests of the community, and determined to throw himself upon their justice and candor." * * * The interest which foreigners hold in the existing Bank of the United States is dwelt upon in the Message as a serious objection to the recharter. But this interest is the result of the assignable nature of the stock; and if the objection be well founded, it applies to Government stock, to the stock in local banks, in canal and other companies, created for internal improvements, and every species of money or movables in which foreigners may acquire an interest. The assignable character of the stock is a quality conferred, not for the benefit of foreigners, but for that of our own citizens. And the fact of its being transferred to them is the effect of the balance of trade being against us-an evil, if it be one, which the American [JULY, 1832. system will correct. All Governments wanting capital resort to foreign nations possessing it in superabundance, to obtain it. Sometimes the resort is even made by one to another belligerent nation. During our revolutionary war we obtained foreign capital (Dutch and French) to aid us. During the late war American stock was sent to Europe to sell; and, if I am not misinformed, to Liverpool. The question does not depend upon the place whence the capital is obtained, but the advantageous use of it. The confidence of foreigners in our stocks is a proof of the solidity of our credit. Foreigners have no voice in the administration of this bank; and if they buy its stock, they are obliged to submit to citizens of the United States to manage it. The Senator from Tennessee (Mr. WHITE) asks what would have been the condition of this country, if, during the late war, this bank had existed, with such an interest in it as foreigners now hold? I will tell him. We that war; perhaps those of Detroit, and at should have avoided many of the disasters of The Government would have posthis place. sessed ample means for its vigorous prosecution; and the interest of foreigners (British subjects especially) would have operated upon. them, not upon us. Will it not be a serious evil to be obliged to remit in specie to foreigners the eight millions which they now have in this bank, instead of retaining that capital within the country to stimulate its industry and enterprise? The President assigns in his Message a conspicuous place to the alleged injurious operation of the bank on the interests of the Western people. They ought to be much indebted to him for his kindness manifested towards them; although I think they have much reason to deprecate it. The people of all the West owe to this bank about thirty millions, which have been borrowed from it; and the President thinks that the payments for the interest, and other facilities which they derive from the operation of this bank, are so onerous as to produce "a drain of their currency, which no country can bear without inconvenience and occasional distress." His remedy is to compel them to pay the whole of the debt which they have contracted in a period short of four years. Now, Mr. President, if they cannot pay the interest without distress, how are they to pay the principal? If they cannot pay a part, how are they to pay the whole? Whether the payment of the interest be or be not a burden to them, is a question for themselves to decide, respecting which they might be disposed to dispense with the kindness of the President. If, instead of borrowing thirty millions from the bank, they had borrowed a like sum from a Girard, John Jacob Astor, or any other banker, what would they think of one who should come to them and say—" Gentlemen of the West, it will ruin you to pay the interest on that debt, and therefore I will oblige you to pay the whole of the principal in less than four years." Would they not reply-"We know what we are about; | mind your own business; we are satisfied that in ours we can make not only the interest on what we loan, but a fair profit beside." A great mistake exists about the Western operation of the bank. It is not the bank, but the business, the commerce of the West, and the operations of Government, that occasion the transfer annually of money from the West to the Atlantic States. What is the actual course of things? The business and commerce of the West are carried on with New Orleans, with the Southern and Southwestern States, and with the Atlantic cities. We transport our dead or inanimate produce to New Orleans, and receive in return checks or drafts of the Bank of the United States, at a premium of a half per cent. We send by our drovers, our live stock to the South and Southwest, and receive similar checks in return. With these drafts or checks our merchants proceed to the Atlantic cities, and purchase domestic or foreign goods for Western consumption. The lead and fur trade with Missouri and Illinois is also carried on principally through the agency of the Bank of the United States. The Government also transfers to places where it is wanted, through that bank, the sums accumulated at the different land offices for purchases of the public lands. Now, all these varied operations must go on -all these remittances must be made, Bank of the United States or no bank. The bank does not create, but it facilitates them. The bank is a mere vehicle, just as much so as the steamboat is the vehicle which transports our produce to the great mart of New Orleans, and not the grower of that produce. It is to confound cause and effect, to attribute to the bank the transfer of money from the West to the East. Annihilate the bank to-morrow, and similar transfers of capital, the same description | of pecuniary operations, must be continued; not so well, it is true, but performed they must be, ill or well, under any state of circum stances. The true questions are, how are they now performed? how were they conducted prior to the existence of the bank? how would they be after it ceased? I can tell you what was our condition before the bank was established; and, as I reason from past to future experience, under analogous circumstances, I can venture to predict what it will probably be without the bank. [SENATE. industry and invigorating our enterprise. In Kentucky we have no specie paying bank, scarcely any currency other than that of paper of the Bank of the United States and its branches. How is the West to pay this enormous debt of thirty millions of dollars? It is impossible. It cannot be done. General distress, certain, wide-spread, inevitable ruin, must be the consequences of an attempt to enforce the payment. Depression in the value of all property, sheriffs' sales and sacrifices-bankruptcy, must necessarily ensue; and, with them, relief laws, paper money, a prostration of the courts of justice, evils from which we have just emerged, must again, with all their train of afflictions, revisit our country. But it is argued by the gentleman from Tennessee, (Mr. WHITE,) that similar predictions were made, without being realized, from the downfall of the old Bank of the United States. It is, however, to be recollected that the old bank did not possess one-third of the capital of the present; that it had but one office west of the mountains, whilst the present has nine; and that it had little or no debt due to it in that quarter, whilst the present bank has thirty millions. The war, too, which shortly followed the downfall of the old bank, and the suspension of specie payments which soon followed the war, prevented the injury apprehended from the discontinuance of the old bank. The same gentleman further argues that the day of payment must come; and he asks when, better than now? Is it to be indefinitely postponed; is the charter of the present bank to be perpetual? Why, Mr. President, all thingsgovernments, republics, empires, laws, human life-doubtless are to have an end; but shall we therefore accelerate their termination? The West is now young, wants capital, and its vast resources, needing nourishment, are daily developing. By and by, it will accumulate wealth, from its industry and enterprise, and possess its surplus capital. The charter is not made perpetual, because it is wrong to bind posterity perpetually. At the end of the term limited for its renewal, posterity will have the power of determining for itself whether the bank shall then be wound up, or prolonged another term. And that question may be decided, as it now ought to be, by a consideration of the interests of all parts of the Union, the West among the rest. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof. Before the establishment of the Bank of the United States, the exchange business of the The President tells us that, if the Executive West was carried on by a premium, which was had been called upon to furnish the project of generally paid on all remittances to the East of a bank, the duty would have been cheerfully two and a half per cent. The aggregate amount performed; and he states that a bank, comof all remittances, throughout the whole circle petent to all the duties which may be required of the year, was very great; and, instead of the by the Government, might be organized as not sum then paid, we now pay half per cent, or to infringe on our own delegated powers, or nothing, if notes of the Bank of the United the reserved rights of the States. The PresiStates be used. Prior to the bank we were dent is a co-ordinate branch of the legislative without the capital of the thirty millions which department. As such, bills which have passed that institution now supplies, stimulating our | both Houses of Congress, are presented to him. SENATE.] The Bank Veto. for his approval or rejection. The idea of going to the President for the project of a law, is totally new in the practice, and utterly contrary to the theory of the Government. What should we think of the Senate calling upon the House, or the House upon the Senate, for the project of a law? [JULY, 1832. that they did not. But suspicion and alarm have been excited. Suspicion and alarm ! Against whom is this suspicion? The House, or the bank, or both? Mr. President, I protest against the right of any Chief Magistrate to come into either House of Congress, and scrutinize the motives of its members; to examine whether a measure has In France, the King possessed the initiative of all laws, and none could pass without its hav-been passed with promptitude or repugnance; ing been previously presented to one of the Chambers by the Crown, through the Ministers. Does the President wish to introduce the initiative here? Are the powers of recommendation, and that of veto, not sufficient? Must all legis- | lation, in its commencement and in its termination, concentrate in the President? When we shall have reached that state of things, the election and annual sessions of Congress will be a useless charge upon the people, and the whole business of Government may be economically conducted by ukases and decrees. Congress does sometimes receive the suggestions and opinions of the heads of departments, as to new laws. And, at the commencement of this session, in his annual report, the Secretary of the Treasury stated his reasons at large, not merely in favor of a bank, but in support of the existing bank. Who could have believed that that responsible officer was communicating to Congress opinions directly adverse to those entertained by the President himself? When before has it happened that the head of a department recommended the passage of a law, which, being accordingly passed and presented to the President, is subjected to his veto? What sort of a bank it is, with a project of which the President would have deigned to furnish Congress, if they had applied to him, he has not stated. In the absence of such statement, we can only conjecture that it is his famous Treasury Bank, formerly recommended by him, from which the people have recoiled with the instinctive horror excited by the approach of the cholera. and to pronounce upon the willingness or unwillingness with which it has been adopted or rejected. It is an interference in concerns which partake of a domestic nature. The official and constitutional relations between the President and the two Houses of Congress subsist with them as organized bodies. His action is confined to their consummated proceedings, and does not extend to measures in their incipient stages, during their progress through the Houses, nor to the motives by which they are actuated. * * * There are some parts of this Message that ought to excite deep alarm; and that especially in which the President announces that each public officer may interpret the constitution as he pleases. His language is: "Each public officer, who takes an oath to support the constitution, swears that he will support it as he understands it, and not as it is understood by others." "The opinion of the judges has no more authority over Congress than the opinion of Congress has over the judges; and, on that point, the President is independent of both." Now, Mr. President, I conceive, with great deference, that the President has mistaken the purport of the oath to support the Constitution of the United States. No one swears to support it as he understands it, but to support it simply as it is in truth. All men are bound to obey the laws, of which the constitution is the supreme; but must they obey them as they are, or as they understand them? If the obligation of obedience is limited and controlled by the measure of The Message states that "an investigation information; in other words, if the party is unwillingly conceded, and so restricted in time as bound to obey the constitution only as he necessarily to make it incomplete and unsatis-understands it, what would be the consequence? factory, discloses enough to excite suspicion and The judge of an inferior court would disobey alarm." As there is no prospect of the passage the mandate of a superior tribunal, because it of this bill, the President's objections notwith- was not in conformity to the constitution, as he standing, by a constitutional majority of two- understands it; a custom-house officer would thirds, it can never reach the House of Repre- disobey a circular from the Treasury Departsentatives. The members of that House, and ment, because contrary to the constitution, as especially its distinguished chairman of the Com- he understands it; an American Minister would mittee of Ways and Means, who reported the disregard an instruction from the President, bill, are therefore cut off from all opportunity communicated through the Department of of defending themselves. Under these circum- State, because not agreeable to the constitution, stances, allow me to ask how the President has as he understands it; and a subordinate officer ascertained that the investigation was unwill-in the army or navy would violate the orders ingly conceded? I have understood directly the contrary; and that the chairman already referred to, as well as other members in favor of the renewal of the charter, promptly consented to and voted for the investigation. And we all know that those in support of the renewal could have prevented the investigation, and | of his superior, because they were not in accordance with the constitution, as he understands it. We should have nothing settled, nothing stable, nothing fixed. There would be general disorder and confusion throughout every branch of administration, from the highest to the lowest officers-universal nullification. For what is JULY, 1832.] Adjournment. [SENATE. the doctrine of the President but that of representation in the elections of the bank, South Carolina applied throughout the Union? which, if it were retained, would give them The President independent both of Congress more. and the Supreme Court! Only bound to exe- Mr. President, we are about to close one of cute the laws of the one and the decisions of the longest and most arduous sessions of Conthe other as far as they conform to the Consti-gress under the present constitution; and, when tution of the United States, as he understands we return among our constituents, what acit! Then it should be the duty of every Presi- count of the operations of their Government dent, on his installation into office, to carefully shall we be bound to communicate? We shall examine all the acts in the statute book, ap- be compelled to say that the Supreme Court is proved by his predecessors, and mark out those paralyzed, and the missionaries retained in which he was resolved not to execute, and to prison in contempt of its authority, and in which he meant to apply this new species of defiance of numerous treaties and laws of the veto, because they were repugnant to the con- United States; that the Executive, through the stitution, as he understands it. And, after the Secretary of the Treasury, sent to Congress a expiration of every term of the Supreme Court, tariff bill which would have destroyed numerhe should send for the record of its decisions, ous branches of our domestic industry, and led and discriminate between those which he to the final destruction of all; that the veto has would, and those which he would not, execute, been applied to the Bank of the United States, because they were or were not agreeable to the our only reliance for a sound and uniform curconstitution, as he understands it. rency; that the Senate has been violently attacked for the exercise of a clear constitutional power; that the House of Representatives has been unnecessarily assailed; and that the President has promulgated a rule of action for those who have taken the oath to support the Constitution of the United States, that must, if there be practical conformity to it, introduce general nullification, and end in the absolute subversion of the Government. There is another constitutional doctrine contained in the Message, which is entirely new to me. It asserts that "the Government of the United States have no constitutional power to purchase lands within the States,' except "for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock yards, and other needful buildings;" and even for these objects only "by the consent of the Legislature of the State in which the same shall be." Now, sir, I had supposed that the right of Congress to purchase lands in any State was incontestable: and, in point of fact, it probably, at this moment, owns lands in every State of the Union, purchased for taxes, or as a judgment or mortgage creditor And there are various acts of Congress which regulate the purchase and transfer of such lands. The advisers of the President have confounded the faculty of purchasing lands with the exercise of exclusive jurisdiction, which is restricted by the constitution to the forts and other buildings described. The Message presents some striking instances of discrepancy. 1st. It contests the right to establish one bank, and objects to the bill that it limits and restrains the power of Congress to establish several. 2d. It urges that the bill does not recognize the power of State taxation generally; and complains that facilities are afforded to the exercise of that power, in respect to the stock held by individuals. 3d. It objects that any bonus is taken, and insists that not enough is demanded. And, 4th. It complains that foreigners have too much influence; and that stock transferred loses the privilege of MONDAY, July 16, 6 A. M. A message was received from the House, communicating that a committee had been appointed on the part of the House to join such committee as might be appointed by the Senate, to wait on the President, and inform him that the two Houses were now ready to adjourn; and Mr. TYLER and Mr. KING were appointed such committee on the part of the Senate. Mr. TYLER, from the committee appointed to wait on the President, reported that they had performed that duty, and had received for answer that the President had no further communication to make. On motion of Mr. BIBв, a message was sent to the House of Representatives, to inform the House that the Senate was ready to adjourn. A message was received from the House, stating that the House, having closed its business, was now ready to adjourn. The Senate then adjourned to the first Monday in December next. *LIST OF MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Maine.-John Anderson, James Bates, George Evans, Cornelius Holland, Leonard Jarvis, Edward Kavanagh, Rufus McIntire. New Hampshire.-John Brodhead, Thomas Chandler, Joseph Hammons, Henry Hubbard, Joseph M. Harper, John W. Weeks. Massachusetts.-John Quincy Adams, Nathan Appleton, Isaac C. Bates, George N. Briggs, Rufus Choate, Henry A. 8. Dearborn, John Davis, Edward Everett, George Grennell, jun., James L. Hodges, Joseph G. Kendall, John Reed, (one vacancy.) Rhode Island.-Tristam Burges, Dutee J. Pearce. Connecticut.-Noyes Barber, William W. Ellsworth, Jabez W. Huntington, Ralph I. Ingersoll, William L. Storrs, Ebenezer Young. Vermont.-Heman Allen, William Cahoon, Horace Everett, Jonathan Hunt, William Slade. New York.-William G. Angel, Gideon H. Barstow, Joseph Bouck, William Babcock, John T. Bergen, John C. Brodhead, Samuel Beardsley, John A. Collier, Bates Cooke, C. C. Cambreleng, John Dickson, Charles Dayan, Ulysses F. Doubleday, William Hogan, Michael Hoffman, Freeborn G. Jewett, John King, Gerrit Y. Lansing, James Lent, Job Pierson, Nathaniel Pitcher, Edmund H. Pendleton, Edward C. Reed, Erastus Root, Nathan Soule, John W. Taylor, Phineas L. Tracy, Gulian C. Verplanck, Frederick Whittlesey, Samuel J. Wilkin, Grattan H. Wheeler, Campbell P. White, Aaron Ward, Daniel Wardwell. New Jersey.-Lewis Condict, Silas Condict, Richard M. Cooper, Thomas H. Hughes, James Fitz Randolph, Isaac Southard. A ascertain if a quorum was present, two hundred and two members answered to their names. quorum being present, The House proceeded to the election of a Speaker, and, on counting the ballots, the following result was announced, viz: The whole Ford, John Gilmore, William Heister, Henry Horn, Peter Maryland.-Benjamin C. Howard, Daniel Jenifer, John Virginia.-Mark Alexander, Robert Allen, William 8. Archer, William Armstrong, John S. Barbour, Thomas T. Bouldin, Nathaniel H. Claiborne, Robert Craig, Joseph W. Chinn, Richard Coke, Jr., Thomas Davenport, Philip Doddridge, William F. Gordon, Charles C. Johnston, John Y. Mason, Lewis Maxwell, Charles F. Mercer, William McCoy, Thomas Newton, John M. Patton, John J. Roane, Andrew Stevenson. North Carolina.-Daniel L. Barringer, Laughlin Bethune, John Branch, Samuel P. Carson, Henry W. Conner, Thomas H. Hall, Micajah T. Hawkins, James J. McKay, Abraham Rencher, William B. Shepard, Augustine H. Shepperd, Jesse Speight, Lewis Williams. South Carolina.-Robert W. Barnwell, James Blair, Warren R. Davis, William Drayton, John M. Felder, J. R. Griffin, Thos. R. Mitchell, George McDuffie, W. T. Nuckolls. Georgia. Thomas F. Foster, Henry G. Lamar, Daniel Newman, Wiley Thompson, Richard H. Wilde, James M. Wayne, (one vacancy.) Kentucky.-John Adair, Chilton Allen, Henry Daniel, Pennsylvania.-Robert Allison, John Banks, George Ohio.-Joseph H. Crane, Eleutheros Cooke, William |