with the spirit of the constitution; he would not say that it was; but it was more so than the Insurrection Act, the Whiteboy Act, and the 20,000 troops kept up in Ireland (hear, hear). If this country would persist in refusing to grant to the people of Ireland their just rights, he could not feel himself justified in imposing any fresh restriction upon them.

Mr W. Williams remarked, that in his opinion, the chief cause of the present unfortunate condition of Ireland, was the religious animosity which pervaded every portion of society, and entered more or less into every transaction. On that ground, he would give his vote for the bringing in the bill, though he would not pledge himself to support it in all its details hereafter.

Mr R. Martin thought that this bill must fail in its operation, and should therefore oppose it; although he was not disposed to think the Association the less dangerous, because it had tranquillized Ireland. If they could allay the angry billows, they had the power to raise them again.

Mr Warre believed that the diseases under which Ireland laboured, required a very different remedy from the present bill. Let the Association be put down, as it might, in name;-in spirit not a week could elapse before it would be renewed.

Mr. C. W. Wynn was far from flattering himself that the measure now proposed, or any other, would tranquillize Ireland, unless accompanied by Emancipation; but he did not therefore agree that because the grand remedy for existing evils in Ireland could not be obtained, the House should sit still supinely, and not apply to these pressing evils, the best remedy which lay within its power. He regretted the conduct of the Association, chiefly for the mischief which it had done to the Catholic cause. But mischievous as the Association had been, they might

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rely that worse was yet to come. would not dwell upon the state of exasperation into which such a body would at last provoke itself; let the House look at the effect, in the way of exasperation, which it would produce upon others. The principle upon which the Catholic Association had formed itself once recognised, what was to prevent the formation of counter-associations among the Protestants? And then would such bodies proceed coolly, and with forbearance? Or would they not go on contending from day to day with increasing exasperation-one act of quarrel or violence leading only to another still more outrageous, until, in the end, the whole country became inflamed, and involved in the dispute? He had always been desirous to put down the Orange Associations, not so much from a fear of the mischief which they did in themselves, as from the dread that they would lead to the formation of such bodies as the Catholic Association. In fact, the system of association was one of the great curses of Ireland. Where the law was weak, and its administration uncertain, men would be driven into associations for the sake of obtaining justice: on the other hand, while such private leagues were in operation, public justice never could be done. This principle was universal. In Scotland, for years after the Union, the administration of justice had been most feeble; before a jury of one clan, no man of another could have a fair trial. No longer back than 1756 an instance to this effect had occurred in the trial of one Stuart. The panel had observed, that it was the first time it had been supposed possible that a Stuart could have a fair hearing before a jury of Campbells, with a Campbell (the Duke of Argyle having gone down expressly for the occasion) sitting as the judge. With reference to the present measure, had it been an act peculiarly to put down the Catholic Association,

he would never have consented to it for he would never have consented to any law which was to make a difference between Protestant and Catholic; but he supported the present bill, as one which struck equally at societies on both sides.

Mr Calcraft could conceive no question more important to the empire at large, than that before the House. With regard to the professions of some members of the cabinet, he would say plainly, that so long as they held place under a Government which made the concession of Emancipation impossible, so long he should have no faith in their assurances, and should caution both the Catholics and the country to place no faith in their assurances. The right honourable gentleman (Mr Wynn) said, that he would put down this Association, because it led to counter-associations. Why, it was in itself nothing more than a counter-association, created in opposition to those Orange Societies which the right honourable gentleman had denounced. He hoped that the Catholics of Ireland would continue united. He never remembered to have heard a minister demand the suppression of meetings to discuss grievances upon proof so defective as that offered by the Secretary for Ireland. Here was the country in an unexampled state of tranquillity; a society, the proceedings of which were all public; no insurrection threatened; no green-bag produced; none of the ordinary paraphernalia set out which should give weight to such a demand; and yet the House was called upon to pass a bill which forbade the Catholics from seeking to attain their rights. He certainly would let it go on; and he believed that, as far as it was attended with the collection of money in one of the poorest countries in the world, however it might go on in other respects, in that respect it would soon go off. For, as to the immense sums which had already

been collected, and of which the possible application gave so much alarm, what might it be supposed the total amount collected throughout Ireland was?-L. 9,000. Why, look at the Bible Societies-at the Methodist Societies their funds were three, four, fifty times as great. It was suggested that this measure had arisen on the Irish side, and had been adopted in England; but he did not believe this; nothing should induce him to believe of the Marquis Wellesley, that he had recommended the present measure, uncoupled with concession.

Mr Plunkett confessed, that he never had risen in that assembly with emotions of greater pain, nor did he ever approach any question with feelings of deeper apprehension, than he approached this. The measure was denounced, by gentlemen whom he highly respected, as one likely to be attended with circumstances of the most ruinous nature. These were heavy imputations. Coming from persons of so much sincerity and ability, he was led almost to doubt the evidence of his senses, and to distrust the proofs which the converse of the proposition laid down by those gentlemen was capable of receiving. He trusted that it would appear to the House that the proposed measure did not interfere with the popular privileges of this country; that it did not affect the Catholic question; and he confidently trusted that none of those disastrous consequences would flow from it which some gentlemen seemed to anticipate. But, independently of this, the question rested on another ground; on one which was paramount to every other, where the safety of the State was involved on the ground of imperious necessity (hear, hear). It had been argued on the opposite side, that this measure attacked the privileges of an association professing to support the Catholic claims; but he begged leave to say, that it attacked all illegal asso

ciations, whether arrayed on behalf of the Catholics or against them. He could not, therefore, conceive, how the sincerest friend to Emancipation could object to the proposed measure, accompanied as it was by the declaration contained in the Speech. His honourable friend (Mr Calcraft) wondered why such a measure had been resorted to, when it was admitted, on all hands, that Ireland was in a state of peace and prosperity. True, she had participated in the general prosperity of the empire. She had been enabled, by the wise and temperate measures of the noble lord at the head of the Irish government, to enjoy the blessings which were the offspring of internal tranquillity. But he could not agree in the assertion that the return of tranquillity in Ireland was attributable to the exertions of the Association. But, even if that position were true, it formed only another reason for adopting the present measure. If the Association could put down those who were illegally inclined-could they not raise them up again, if they thought proper? And here he would beg leave to say, that amongst the persons who were most active in effecting this restoration of tranquillity, were the Catholic priests of Ireland-not the Catholic Association, who arrogated all the merit but the Catholic clergy. Having borne this testimony to the tranquillity of Ireland, it was proper to revert to the question, "Why, in so flattering a state of things, do you bring this measure forward?" He would answer, that although he never remembered a period of greater prosperity in Ireland, yet he never recollected a time of so great political excitation. That alarm had been raised in the minds of many Protestants, by industrious efforts; that it had been exaggerated by interested persons, he readily admitted. but the desperate conduct of this society had tended to verify the fears that had been thus conjured up. He sincerely wished to grant the Catholics their

claims; but if they could not be granted, was the legislature not to make provision for any circumstances of danger which they might have reason to adprehend? With those who contend that the Catholic question was of vital importance, and called for immediate adoption, he went to the full extent; but if it were put as a proposition, that its refusal should have the effect of drawing out the physical force against the Government, even to the Catholic question, with all his opinion of its importance, he would give his decided negative. He would remind the House what the Catholic Association was. It was clear that the Association was founded upon a different principle from any of the "numerous defiances of the law" which have been wielded in that unsettled country from time to time. A number of gentlemen had, it seemed, formed themselves into a club, not merely for the purpose of forwarding the Catholic question, but " for the redress of all grievances, local or general, affecting the people of Ireland." With this view they had undertaken the great question of Parliamentary Reform-the Repeal of the Union-the question of Tithes-the Regulation of Church Property-the Administration of Justice, from the highest Court down to the Court of Conscience. Not content merely with an interference with the courts, they were resolutely bent on interfering with the adjudication of every cause which affected the Catholics, whom they styled "the people of Ireland." They had associated with them the Catholic clergy-the Catholic nobility-many of the Catholic gentry, and all the surviving delegates of 1791. They had established committees in every district, who kept up an extensive correspondence throughout the country. The Association, which at first was very small, then amounted to 3000 members. They had permanent sittings for the discussion of every question connected with Ireland. But

there was also a Catholic rent; and in every parish of the two thousand five hundred into which Ireland was divi ded, they established twelve Catholic collectors, making at once an army of twenty thousand collectors; unarmed, he admitted, in every thing but prayers, entreaties, and influence. Having raised their army of collectors, they brought to their assistance two thousand five hundred priests, the whole ecclesiastical body of that religion; and thus provided, they went about levying contributions on the peasantry. Now this he would not hesitate to say, that an association assuming to represent the people, and in that capacity to bring about a reform in church and state, was against the spirit of the constitution. Did he deny the right of the people to meet for the purpose of promoting the redress of grievances in church and state, by discussion and petition? Most certainly not. But they had not a right to depute any persons, as a body, to obtain such redress. The moment the Catholic Association became representative, that moment they infringed upon the privileges of Parliament and the spirit of the constitution. He must contend, that if a body of people in Ireland stood forward as representing 6,000,000 of their fellow-subjects, such an assembly was illegal. It was not the amount of the rent; it was the principle that he complained of. The Association, through the medium of the priests, declared to the people, "We are the persons who represent the Roman Catholics, and who, in case of necessity, ought to wield the physical force." Was this to be endured? If they did not put it down, could they answer to themselves and the people for such a dereliction of duty? By whom were they to be tried -by whom were they to be rebuked? If the Executive wielded great powers, the constitution pointed out the mode in which they were to be exercised. But the society assumed both the le

gislative and executive power, and rejected all the checks by which the latter was surrounded. Many members of that house were not aware of the formidable power-more formidable than the sword or the purse-the power of public opinion, which was exercised by this Association. They went into the relations of private life; they denounced individuals on public and private grounds, with so little moderation, that it required more courage than belonged to ordinary men to defy them. The numbers of the Association were increased in consequence, by a body of unwilling conscripts. Even persons of high rank and character had been, some persuaded, others compelled, by the terrors of public opinion, to swell their ranks till that body which, in its outset, was viewed without jealousy, had actually met 3000 strong. There was but one other topic, to which he wished to refer-he meant their interference with the administration of justice. He could not conceive a more deadly instrument of tyranny than this. For who are the persons who interfered? They were persons claiming to represent 6,000,000 of people; claiming the right of denouncing, and of bringing to the bar of justice any individual whom they chose to accuse of having violated the rights of that people. Could the party so accused come safely to trial, when the grand inquest of the people of Ireland, with the people's money at their disposal, were his accusers? Magistrates and persons in authority must yield to such a power, or array themselves against it. Party would be opposed to party, and the courts of justice would become scenes of factious contention. Such being the state of things, was the Marquis Wellesley to be reproached for not having allowed this institution to die of its own folly? Of what materials did gentlemen believe the Protestants of Ireland were composed, if they were content with being passive spectators of