The Earl of Sandwich replied humorously, in the words of the old ballad, written, as he said, in the time of Henry IV. [Chevy Chase]" I trust we have many as good as he." He insisted, without any disparagement to the honourable captain, there were several as able officers in the navy as he; that wind and tide, and a variety of circumstances attendant on them, were not to be commanded. He assured the noble Duke, let the consequences be what they might, they would not wait for the French ships being in port, or even in with the land; but would seize them without ceremony in the first instance; and trust to the event, be it what it might; administration being de termined to abide, if necessary, to enforce the true terms of the explanation, in the sense only it was desired and given. As to the other part, relative to the state of the navy, and his reasons for pronouncing with so much confidence concerning it, he told the noble Duke, that the case was now entirely different from whas it was in the year 1770; for that towards the conclusion of the late war, when the public exigencies called for a powerful fleet, they were obliged to make use of green timber, of any kind of timber, in the construction of our ships of war; that those ships rotted at the end of five or six years; whereas those built lately would stand thirty, as they were built of seasoned timber, of which we had a large three years stock; and that besides we made use of another precaution, which was still seasoning the timber while the ship was building, by giving orders that no man of war should be hastily built, or launched in less than three years after she was put upon the stocks. Bishop of Peterborough. Throughout the whole of this day's debate, and indeed on every question relative to America, it has been to me of very serious concern, to see so much of your Lordships time taken up in mutual charges and recriminations. It is but too evident, that a complicated variety of very untoward circumstances have combined to bring Great Britain and her colonies into so great difficulty and embarrasment, that to extricate them requires all your Lordships temper, as well as wisdom. Yet while we have heard, on the one hand, lords, eminent for their abilities and experience, assert, that the constitution is violated, and the sacred rights of our fellow-subjects encroached upon by principles of arbitrary power, till resistance itself is thought justifiable; we are assured, on the other, by authority no less respectable, that opulence and security have begot a desire of independence in our colonies; that that a spirit of discontent and disaffection is gone forth, which has been unhappily increased by the arts and encouragement of some men here at home, under the influence of like passions, till America is become impatient of all legal restraint, and determined to break through every tie which has hitherto connected her with the mother country. Irise, not to trouble your Lordships as an advocate for either extreme of opinion, but profess that, above all things, I wish for reconciliation upon the very easiest terms that, consistently with the just authority and pre-eminence of this country, can be admitted as a ground of re-union. Yet sen-" sible as I am that it is my duty, nor is it less my inclination, to promote peace, yet cannot I, for fear that our commercial concerns should suffer a temporary interruption, wish to see the honour and lasting prosperity of this country sacrificed to its temporary interests. For, waving all discussion of that great constitutional question, whether or not the legislative supremacy implies or not the right and power of taxation,' there is to my understanding a very evident distinction be-tween an internal general tax, and a port duty, upon any article of trade, which the subject is at liberty to purchase or not, as he thinks proper. I am aware, that the advocates for the total independence of America have endeavoured to prove, that a duty so raised is illegal and oppressive as any other tax whatever; but to. have made it so, Parliament must have done by the tea in America, what is done in France by the salt, have obliged every family to have bought, not as much as they were willing, but as much as it was thought they were able to con sume. That there is a power in this country to regulate the trade throughout all the ports of the whole British empire, is what, I believe, hardly one of your Lordships will contest. It would be of use, therefore, in shortening this debate, to recollect, that it was for the tumultuous resistance to this acknowledged right of the legislature, that the port of Boston was shut up. I am free to own, that there may be an oppressive exer cise of even an acknowledged right; but it will be a difficult matter to bring the duty upon tea under that description. The noble lord [Lord C-d-n] before me acknowledges, that he made no objection to it at the time it was laid, though he was then in the highest department of the law, with so much credit to himself and satisfaction to the public; he will allow, therefore, that there was no appear E 4 ance A. 1775 House, to blindly and implicitly adopt the present measure, without examination, deliberation, or enquiry. This night's debate, he confessed, brought back strongly to his mind what had often been the subject with him of great astonishment and serious consideration. The measure which had been originally the cause of our present dangerous situation, was now openly disavowed by three cabinet ministers, then occupying the first departments of the state. They had, each of them, he remarked, solemnly declared it was no measure of theirs, jointly or separately; one of them [Lord Shelburne] has assured us, from his own knowledge, that it did not seem to be agreeable to the sentiments of a Great Personage. Whence then, says his Grace, are we to suppose it originated? I will not say that the noble and learned Lord knows; but this I will venture to remind his Lordship of, that when I came to office I saw several foreign dispatches, on the margin of which were written observations in that noble Lord's hand writing. I need not tell his Lordship, but I shall take the liberty to inform the House, that the correspondence with our foreign ministers, at a convenient time, is sent round in little blue boxes to the efficient cabinet ministers; and that each of them give their opinions on them in writing. These are the opinions and the observations I now allude to. His Grace besides, in the course of his speech, condemned very severely the acts respecting America, passed during the last session, particularly to that which gave a new power to the sheriffs, unknown to the constitution; that of creating what he called pocket juries; and the other, which, if possible, is of a much more dangerous tendency, preventing all meetings, under the penalties of high treason; for if it be treason to resist an act of the British parliament in the manner now contended for, it must of consequence be treason to assist at the assemblies, which the bill for altering the charter positively prohibits. The Lord Mansfield rose in great warmth: he said he could hardly bring himself to believe the several insinuations thrown out on the other side of the House could be directed at him; yet, on the other hand, if they meant any thing, he knew not otherwise how to interpret them. If they were intended to be imputed to him as a crime, they missed their aim, for in his opinion they had perhaps undesignedly done him the greatest honour. What do their Lordships insinuate, that I have been the author of the present measures, and it is I that direct them? I should be proud to own them if it were, because I think them wise, politic, and equitable; but surely they will permit me to repeat again, that I have been a nominal cabinet minister part of the last reign, and the whole of the present; that I was an efficient cabinet minister during part of both periods; but that since the time before alluded to in this debate, I have had no concern or participation whatever in his Majesty's councils. Threats are thrown out, and enquiries predicted: I heartily wish they may be speedy; I am prepared for them, and put their intended authors to the most utter defiance. It has been urged against me as a crime to-day, that I have courted popularity. I never did court it, but I have always studied to deserve it. Popularity will always fly the pursuers; she must follow. I do not mean to say that I despise it; on the contrary, I sincerely wish for it, if not purchased at too dear a price, at the expence of my conscience and my duty. If a faithful-discharge of one, and execution of the other, be the means of procuring it, I hope I shall always be a warm candidate for popular fame. I have hitherto, to the best of my abilities, acted on that plan, and I hope I shall persevere to the end. I have seen much of courts, parliaments, and cabinets, and have been a frequent witness to the means used to acquire popularity, and the base and mean purposes to which that popularity has been afterwards employed. I have been in cabinets where the great struggle has not been to advance the public interests; not by coalition and mutual assistance to strengthen the hands of government; but by cabals, jealousy, and mutual distrust, to thwart each others designs, and to circumvent each other, in order to obtain power and pre-eminence. I have been no less careful to observe the effects of popularity, where it has been courted and gained for particular purposes; but where every engagement was abandoned which led to its attainment, when the keeping of them became no longer necessary to the views of self-interest and ambition. I am threatened! I dare the authors of those threats to put any one of them in execution. I am ready to meet their charges, and am prepared for the event, either to cover my adversaries with shame and disgrace, or in the fall, risque the remnant of a life nearly drawing to an end, and consequently not worth being very solicitous about. The Lord Lyttelton rose a second time, to defend his noble and learned friend; and the Duke of Richmond in particular, and one or two other Lords on the same side, having dwelt much on the probable consequence our present civil dissension might have on the conduct of France and Spain, his Lordship Lordship pressed the King's servants to declare what steps they had taken to bring these courts to an explanation on this subject. The Earl of Rochford replied, that be believed the noble Lord had spoken by inspiration. He declared he had no sort of conversation with him relative to the subject, whatever appearance it might have of being concerted between them; but he thought it extremely fortunate, that the question furnished him with an opportunity of acquainting the House, that he had received a letter that very day from the King's minister at Paris, giving him the most full and unreserved assurances that the French court would prohibit all commerce with the British colonies; and that should any of the subjects of the crown of France, after such declaration on their part, presume to carry on any trade with America, his most Christian Majesty meant to be understood, that they were to be deemed out of his protection; and that the British court were at liberty to seize the vessels and confiscate their cargoes. His Lordship said, that it might possibly be objected to this declaration, that we ought not to depend on French faith; and that probably those assurances were given only with a view of lulling us into a fatal security; but he said he had every reason to believe France sincere, as well by the pacific counsels which at present prevailed in that country, as from the permanent policy of both France and Spain, who were determined, on their own account, against countenancing, abetting, or bringing into precedent, any measure which might operate as an encouragement to the colonies in the New World, to render themselves independent of the present state. His Lordship' then referred to a work lately published in France, wherein it is expressly asserted, that it would be bad policy in the extreme, for France to interfere in the present disputes between Great Britain and her colonies. The Lord Wycombe, [Earl of Shelburne] returned to his general charges of a fatal and over-ruling influence. He observed, it was very extraordinary that the bills passed last sessions of Parliament, respecting America, were disowned by the law officers of the crown; and who, in the name of God, could have framed them, says his Lordship?-We cannot, cannot suppose it was the minister who framed them. We are almost certain that none of the members of administration drew them up. We know they were fabricated by some person conversant in the law. It is impossible we can hesi tate |