practice will be to employ screw steamers on to the study of the Navy and Retired those stations as in every way a more eco- List to understand the details with which nomical system. it is encumbered. And what is the result The next Vote is that of the Victualling of such an examination of it as can be of the Navy, amounting to £995,647. given? Is the present state of our naval Last year it was £1,027,357-showing force, with respect to officers as put down this year a saving of £31,000, notwith-in that list, in a condition of efficiency? standing the increase of men, which is My belief is-and I say it with a full principally to be attributed to the reduction sense of the difficulties of the case, and in the price of provisions. The next Votes without wishing to say anything rash or relate to the Admiralty Office, the Coast- imprudent-that the state of the Navy guard Service, the Scientific Branch, and List is not satisfactory-it requires reviHer Majesty's Establishments at home sion, and if revised with a judicious hand and abroad, being numbered respectively it may tend greatly to the efficiency of 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. These all vary more the service and the economy of the public or less from the rates of last year, money. There are on the list about some being increased and some dimi- 3,700 officers, of whom 1,700 are on nished; but it is unnecessary to enter the reserved and retired lists, and the into the details, though I shall be ready remainder on the active list. Out of the hereafter to offer any explanation that list of 100 admirals, 39 are between may be required. Vote 8 refers to the ages of 70 and 87, while of the whole Wages of Artificers; and I shall after- number, excluding the Board of Admiralty, wards explain to the House the large in- only 14 are employed. Out of 358 active crease that has taken place in the Vote, captains, 31 are above the age of 60, and believing that I shall best consult the con- while out of the whole number only 90 are venience of Members by separating in this employed, 180 of the remainder have never way the extra from what may be called the served afloat in their present rank. Out of ordinary portion of the expenditure under 507 active commanders, 56 are above the this head. On No. 9, the Vote for the age of 60, and while out of the whole expense of Wages in Establishments number only 179 are employed, 290 have abroad I shall follow a similar course. never served afloat in their present rank. Vote 10 is always a heavy item relating to Take next the lieutenants. Out of 1061 Naval Stores. Here, again, I shall defer active lieutenants, 120 are above the age my explanation of the causes of the great of 60, and of the whole number about 500 increase that is proposed, only observing are employed in sea-going ships, and 190 for the present that in ordinary circum- in the Coast-guard and Packet Service. Of stances the increase would have been the remainder, a large proportion are either £95,488, in consequence of the necessity of unwilling to serve without some prospect of maintaining our stores of timber. Vote 11, promotion or of increased half-pay, in confor New Works, is a heavy item; but there sequence of such servitude when they beis no material alteration from last year. come unfit. This is the state of the upper Votes 12 and 13, for Medicines and Medi- part of the Navy List. It is overcrowded. cal Stores, and for Miscellaneous Services, These officers cannot get employment, and, require no particular remark. Vote 14, as we have seen, a large proportion of them relating to Half-pay, brings before me a have never served afloat in their present subject on which I wish to make a few rank. Now, simultaneously with this state remarks. The change in the Vote itself of things it so happens that in the lower is very small, amounting to an increase of ranks of the navy we have not enough £12,361; but I am desirous of stating officers for the ships that are in commisthe opinions which I entertain with regard sion. At this moment the ships in comto the present state of the Navy List. I mission in the navy are nearly 400 short cannot help thinking that this is a very of their complement in regard to mates, serious question, deeply affecting the wel- midshipmen, and officers of that class. fare and efficiency of the navy. Hon. There must be something wrong in a state Members who have ever looked into the of things that over crowds the upper list and Navy List must be aware that it is one of leaves an insufficiency of officers in those the most complicated and unintelligible below. Some reform is wanted. Promotion documents that ever was compiled. It in the navy is almost stagnant. It is is difficult, if not, indeed, impossible, for true that there are what are called Board those who have not devoted their lives promotions for "brilliant service," which VOL. CLII. [THIRD SERIES.] 2 G these officers are, no doubt, much founded upon the late warrant issued in respect to the army; but I think that eyen before the date of that warrant the surgeons of the navy were not relatively placed on an equality with their brethren of the army. Now, however, they have an unanswerable claim to the consideration of their country. Nothing in the naval service could be nobler or more gallant than the manner in which the medical officers of the navy have discharged their duties under the most trying and painful circumstances, and they are entitled to more liberal treatment than they now receive. Their claim is based upon two grounds-first, it is due to them, as officers, that their position should be improved; and, secondly, public policy requires that the services of this most useful branch of the profession should be more highly appreciated and better requited, so that able and competent men may not be deterred from joining the navy. It is, therefore, our intention, in spirit and in substance, to concede to naval surgeons the advantages which they justly seek to obtain. At the same time I will not, and cannot, now commit myself to the exact mode in which that object shall be carried out. The peculiarities of the naval service may render, it inconvenient to follow the precise rule pursued in regard to the army; but these and other points of detail will be duly considered before our plan is finally decided upon. The naval chaplains have preferred a very similar claim, as have also the masters and paymasters, and it is my desire to take the whole of these questions into simultaneous consideration, carefully examining them in their relation to each other before arriving at any definite conclusion. have of late years been pretty freely given. But the generality of officers, who are employed in the ordinary duties of the profession, reap no benefit from this system, and can only look for their advancement to the few promotions which I may have at my disposal under the Orders in Council under which I act. By these orders I am at present limited to one promotion to the rank of Captain and Commander for every three vacancies on those lists, and the result has been, since I have had the honour of holding my present office, now twelve months, that I have had but two vacancies on the Active Captains List, to meet the large number of just claims for promotion to that rank. We have, at the same time, a variety of Reserved and Retired Lists; but with the exception of one list, called the Reserved Flag List, every one of these are either completely choked, or else they have ceased to exercise the effect for which they were intended. It is only on the most important of these retirement lists that vacancies can now be filled. I shall not dwell longer on this matter. I admit its difficulty, but it seems to me that that difficulty must be grappled with. The efficiency of the public service requires it. My belief is, without pledging myself now to any details, that the sound principle is to follow the rule already adopted, to a considerable extent, in the army. Naval officers, like all other human beings, must yield to the force of time; a regular flow of promotion should exist, and it is essential to the well-being of the navy, that we should have the services of active and vigorous officers, capable of performing their duties. I believe, therefore, that the best system for the service will be to adopt the principle of retirement at a given age, and thus secure the advancement of younger men to posts which their age and physical strength qualify them to fill. In answer to a question put to me yesterday, I stated that I should avail myself of this occasion to allude to a subject which has lately excited very great interest namely, the present position of the surgeons of the Royal Navy. I am sorry to find that my former answer has been very much misunderstood. I by no means intended to imply that I had any doubt or hesitation as to the course to be adopted. On the contrary, I then meant, as I mean now, to express in distinct terms my opinion that the present position of the surgeons in the navy is not satisfactory. But I go further. The complaints we now hear from The next Vote is that for Transport of Troops, on which there is a considerable reduction. It has fallen from £410,500 last year, to £200,000 for the present year. The item for the Packet Service differs little from the corresponding charge for the last year; but I think this Vote ought not to be included in the Navy Estimates at all. It should be comprised among the Votes for the Post Office department; and I only wonder that the right hon. Gentleman opposite did not get rid of it long ago. The general result of a comparison between the Estimates for the present and those for the next year is, that supposing we did not take any extra money for shipbuilding, and did not add 3,000 men to the navy, there would be a saving of more than this great addition to the cost of ship. £138,000 in favour of the next year. In- building, because I am bound to say that cluding the expense for this 3,000 men, when I succeeded to the office I have but deducting the charge for extra shipbuilding, there would still remain a saving of £23,897 upon the Estimates for the next year. The real addition, therefore, to our naval expenditure, as shown in the Estimates, on account of the proposals we intend to make, will amount to £1,009,604. With the permission of the Committee I shall now turn to the increase of the navy which we recommend; and here I may observe that throughout this statement I wish to deal with the House with the most perfect candour. I must therefore say that this sum of £1,009,604, which appears to be the additional cost we are to incur for ship-building, does not represent the whole of our proposed expenditure under that head. Besides that amount there will be postponed payments to the extent of £260,000. Of that money £100,000 will be made up by postponed instalments for steam machinery, which will not be paid for during 1859-60, but will be brought into the accounts for the commencement of the following year. There will also be payments of £160,000 for final instalments of vessels built by contract. Thus, the entire expense of the increase we propose to make in the navy is not exhausted by the sum of £1,009,000 which stands on the paper, but, in fact, will though it will not all be required for the ensuing fiuaucial year-to £1,269,604. amount The question then arises: Why is it that we want this addition to our navy? Are there sufficient reasons to justify us in asking Parliament to grant an increased expenditure for this purpose, in round figures of nearly £1,300,000? My belief is, that neither in this House nor in the country will there be any hesitation as to the propriety of this outlay. I am sure it is my duty, as it is the soundest policy, to treat the House with perfect frankness on these subjects. I did so last year, and I intend to do so now. I have previously stated my conviction that the extent of our naval force is known to foreign Powers. Foreign Governments are perfectly well aware of what goes on in this country. If there is any concealment at all, it is a concealment from the people here. It is right that the people should know what is the real state of affairs, and why they are called on to make these great efforts. I iny state then, at once, that we ask for now the honour to hold I did not find But Sir Baldwin Walker "The information recently received from France having fully confirmed the accounts previously obtained of the state of the French navy, and shown the additions contemplated during the ensuing year, it is now beyond a question that, although a few years ago we were far a-head of them in respect of screw line-of-battle ships, they are now, for the first time, equal to us, and unless some extraordinary steps are at once taken to expedite the building of screw-ships of the line, the French at the close of next year will be actually superior to us as regards the most powerful class of ships of war." to check the progress which ought to have | sion" calling our attention to the deficiency been made in augmenting the number of of line-of-battle ships. In consequence of line-of-battle ships in the navy. I hold in this second 66 submission" we placed the my hand a statement of the proposals made workmen in the dockyards on the system of by the Surveyor of the Navy for an increase task and job, and made those efforts which of line-of-battle ships and frigates during enabled us to equip the Channel squadron. the last ten years. I have the programme In the course of the summer we thought it submitted and the orders given thereon, our duty to institute inquiries into the state but those orders were not carried out. In of the navy of France. We felt, as I shall the course of the last ten years the orders soon show, that the navy of England was for ships in the line amounted to 37, but not in a satisfactory condition; but we the number of ships of the line actually thought it our duty to make inquiries in rebuilt during those years was only 25; and, ference to the condition of the navy of therefore, when I came into office, I found France. In July we again received a 12 line-of-battle ships less than we should strong "submission " from Sir Baldwin have bad if the intentions of the Admiralty Walker, urging on us the necessity of from year to year had been carried out. making vigorous efforts for the safety of In late years, I believe, the falling off our own shores in the building of powerful originated in the requirements of the ships of the line. From that document I Russian war, which, to a certain extent, will read an extract. had the effect of diverting labour from the says,— building of line-of-battle ships to vessels of a much smaller class. With regard to frigates, that is a stronger case. During the last ten years proposals were made for building 37 frigates; the actual number built was only 23,. so that there was a deficiency of 14 frigates in that period. All this has made a very material difference in the positive and relative state of the navy. I am now going to deal, not with small boats, but with the great arm of the service, our line-of-battle ships and frigates, in regard to which I found, on my accession to office, our navy in a most unsatisfactory condition. I attach no blame to the late Admiralty for having built those smaller vessels, but we must recollect that in contemplating the future action of our navy, we must have regard to the possi- I now wish to state to the House that last bility of a naval war. We cannot look for a summer, when my attention was drawn to repetition of a war similar to that with this state of affairs, the effective line-ofRussia. We must, I say, contemplate the battle ships in England were in number possibility of a naval war; and should only 29. With respect to block-ships, of we ever find ourselves involved in a naval which we have beard a great deal, and war, it will be absolutely essential to have of which I scarcely knew how to speak line-of-battle ships and frigates in such when I first came into office, I must numbers as will enable us to conduct such say I have now no hesitation in stating a war with honour and success. Very that these block-ships are wholly useshortly after I came into office we received less-they are good for nothing as seaat the Admiralty a paper called a "sub-going men-of-war; they may be useful mission," from Sir Baldwin Walker, the Surveyor of the Navy, calling our attention in very strong terms to the unsatisfactory state of Her Majesty's naval force in respect to line-of-battle ships. This "submission was laid before the Admiralty, I think, in the latter part of March last. Again, in May we received from Sir Baldwin Walker another pressing "submis Again, he says, "This condition of things would not have occurred if the successive programmes of the last few years could have been carried out, but the exigences of the late war so interfered with the building of ships, that it was found utterly impossible to do so." perhaps as floating batteries; but as menof-war to go to sea, I say, they are perfectly useless. Several of them are rotten, and all are very nearly worn out. We must dismiss block-ships, then, and sailing line-of-battle ships from our consideration. The effective line-of-battle ships in England, as I have said, when I came to the Admiralty, were reduced to 906 In a Report, the low number of 29. The House will generally inferior ships. permit me to state what the number of the navy in England has been in former times. In the Seven Years' War (1760) there were 113 ships of the line in commission, with 86,626 seamen and marines; in the American war (1783) there were 126 ships of the line in commission, with 105,443 seamen and marines; in the French Revolutionary war (1799) there were 120 ships of the line in commission, with 120,409 seamen and marines; in the war with France (1809) there were 113 ships of the line in commission, with 144,387 seamen and marines; and in the war with Russia (1856) when we had no enemy on the sea -when we fought no naval action, and when our ships of war were generally employed in the transport of troops and military stores, or in attacking stone walls, there were 42 ships in commission (including block-ships and sailing ships) with 67,791 seamen and marines. Those sailing ships and block-ships answered the purpose when there was no enemy on the sea; but you cannot calculate on them in case of another war; and, in the event of a naval war, when you want effective ships, although the lowest number you had in the war with Russia was 42, your force is reduced to the lower number of 29. That was in the summer of last year; and we have since added four ships, which were then taking in their engines, which has increased the number to 33. dated in December last, Sir Baldwin Walker says, cently built frigates there is scarcely a sailing ship "With the exception of some of the more rewhich in its present state is fit to go to sea, and most of them require such extensive repairs that it would not be desirable to incur the expense of repairing them. As regards the screw vessels, all converted have the same armament as they had the 80-gun screw ships which from necessity were as sailing vessels, and are consequently so much pressed with their weights, and cramped for stowage, as to render them bad sea-boats..... All these but can only be regarded as vessels fit to replace 80-gun screw ships ought not therefore to be considered as forming part of the effective screw force, the block-ships for home service. The latter, from their great age, are so defective that they will not be worth repairing after their present commission. To show the superiority of the French ships of the five were reduced from 100 and ten from 90-gun corresponding class, 80-guns, ships, and are, therefore, not only more powerful it may be stated that sailing ships but better enabled to stow their machinery, &c., than the English 80-gun screw ships." I have stated to the House that during last summer we thought it our duty to ascertain the state of the French navy. We had heard much and justly of the progress made by France in increasing her naval armament during the last few years. We took means of ascertaining what were the facts, and we found that the line-of-battle ships of France were exactly the same in number as our own-namely, twenty-nine. The French had fewer three-deckers, firstrates, than we had; but of our twentynine ships there were nine which were inferior to any of the French. Therefore, in July last the screw line-of-battle ships of France were twenty-nine, and those of England also twenty-nine in number; but, that in point of power and efficiency, the line-of-battle ships of England were, to the best of my knowledge and belief, inferior to those of France. The nine ships to which I have referred are sailing 80-gun ships, which have been Converted into screw 80's, and consequently have not room for their engines, and are Having thus shown the opinion of the Surveyor of the Navy that in July last out of twenty-nine ships we had nine of a very inferior quality, I will now turn to what our prospects were with regard to the year 1859. gines, and during the year 1859 there We had four ships receiving ento be converted, which would have raised were two new ships to be launched and one the number of our line-of-battle ships to the French navy was not to be at all in thirty-six. We found that the progress of the year 1859, the comparison would have same ratio. At the close of the stood - England, thirty-six line-of-battle ships, with 3,400 guns, and 19,750 horsequality; France, forty line-of-battle ships, power, nine of these ships being of inferior with 3,706 guns and 27,510 horse-power. There would have been a clear decided superiority on the part of France at the close of the year 1859. I hope it will be clearly understood that in making these statements I am not speaking in an unfriendly spirit towards France. can desire more than I do, for the sake of No man France, for the sake of England, and for the sake of the world, that the friendship and alliance between the two countries may long continue. France for the efforts which she is making Nor do I intend to blame to increase her naval power. On the contrary, I respect the spirit with which the French Government have carried out these additions. But my argument is, that we are bound to do the same thing; that it is |