So that here again you have a proof in | £4,000,000 sterling in providing steam the items of building, stores, and artificers' engines for the royal navy. I stated then wages, of how much more costly it is to that I thought it desirable to ascertain build ships in these days than it was a few how far the national property so obtained years ago. The Rodney, again, required had been taken care of, and whether the 3,610 loads of timber and 219 shipwrights; engines for our vessels was constructed while the Renown, a vessel of the same on the best, most approved, and most class, but lately built, required 4,680 loads scientific principles. I have redeemed of timber and 277 shipwrights. The im- the pledge which I then gave to the mense increase in the size of our ships will House, that there should be an inprepare hon. Members for a great augmen- quiry into these subjects, and in the course tation in another item of our Navy Esti- of last summer I appointed a Committee mates, which has been the subject of re- consisting of Admiral Ramsden, Mr. John mark on several occasions-I mean the Ward, and Mr. Nasmyth, and I intrusted Vote for new works. Between 1852 and to them the duty of investigating the 1858 the increase in new works has been state of the steam machinery of the navy. from £265,140 in 1852 to £585,862 in This Committee report that the result of 1858, or 120 per cent. The cause of this their inquiries is, that the steam machinery must, upon consideration, be obvious. As of the Royal Navy is in a very creditable your ships increase in size you find that state, and that in this respect the money has the slips and docks, which were perfectly been well expended, and the public have sufficient a few years ago, have now become been faithfully served. I am bound, howinsufficient, and that you must therefore go ever, to say that this able paper contains to the expense of reconstruction, and I several recommendations, some of which need not say that the building of new slips at least it is the intention of the Admiralty and docks is a very costly affair. We have to adopt, as we believe that they will tend in the whole of Her Majesty's yards forty- to the advantage of the public service. One two building slips, and at this moment of those recommendations is that in taking only nine of them are large enough tenders for the supply of steam engines there for the construction of first-rate ships. ought to be more scope for competition We are increasing the size of ten among the manufacturers than has hitherto others, and, of course, a large amount of been allowed. Considering the magnitude money is required for this purpose. The of these requirements and the immense case of docks is still more remarkable. mischief that might arise from any defects, We have thirty-three docks, of which four it is certainly a grave question whether it only, in Her Majesty's yards-and I hope is not best to confine the invitations to a hon. Members will bear the statement in few manufacturers in London, or to exmind when the Vote comes on for discussion tend the competition more widely. My -will accommodate ships of the largest own opinion is that the public object will class. We are therefore obliged to alter be best attained by a wider system of comand enlarge the docks, and we are now petition than has hitherto been allowed; engaged in enlarging five of them; but, and we propose, therefore, to invite tenders after all, when these are altered, that from engineers in Liverpool, in Scotland, will only give us nine docks capable of or wherever there are houses of known holding first-rate ships. But we cannot eminence. I have also thought it my attain that object without the expenditure duty to appoint another Committee to inof immense sums of money, and those quire into the labour in our dockyards. Members who look to this Vote will find The sum expended in our dockyards is that a very large sum is asked for to attain enormously large, and it is most important these objects. that in expending such sums economy should be practised, and the full value of our expenditure be obtained. I by no means state that I have any suspicion that wrong practices have existed in the dockyards; but the Committee which sat in 1848 recommended an inquiry into this subject, and I wish particularly to ask the attention of the hon. Member for Lambeth to this. They state in their Report that is idle to suppose that a Parliamentry Committee could really investigate the details of dock

Sir, having entered into this explanation with regard to the difference in the Votes of 1852 and the present year, I wish now to refer to an observation which was made by myself when moving the Estimates on a former occasion. It may be in the recollection of hon. Members that on that occasion I drew attention to the immense amount of money expended in the purchase of steam machinery, and that we had then spent little less a sum than

the public, the Committee, I think, will at once see that it was impossible that Her Majesty's Government could have framed these Estimates with any reference to the contents of that Report. But I cannot omit to say, and in so saying, I think I am only giving expression to a very general opinion, that that Commission is entitled to public gratitude for the manner in which it has discharged its duties. The House will recollect that when the hon. and gallant Admiral moved for the Commission, I stated that I thought there was one special object which its members should have in view namely, that some mode should be devised for establishing a con

yard expenditure-that it is altogether out of the question-and that any efficient inquiry must be conducted by some body of men appointed especially for the purpose. In consequence of that Report a Committee was appointed soon after; they closely investigated the expenditure in the dockyards, and as a result great economy and many improvements were introduced. But that took place ten years ago, and I thought it desirable that we should have another inquiry into the expenditure of the dockyards, in order to ascertain whether the money was laid out in the most judicious and economical manner, or whether there was still room for improvement. That Committee was headed by Admiral Smart, nection between the Royal Navy and and it has been engaged in the investiga- the mercantile navy, in the event of tion down to the present time. I regret any emergency requiring that additional that Report is not yet finished, but I un- strength should be given to the Royal derstand from the Chairman that the re- Navy. I stated that so far as concerned sult of the inquiry will be the recommenda- the ordinary meaning of our fleet in time tion of very considerable changes, which, of peace, I did not believe that that in his opinion, will lead to a much more Commission would be able to discover economical and judicious expenditure in anything more effectual than the plan the dockyards in future. I mention these recommended by the Manning Committee facts to show and I hope they will be of 1852, and carried into full effect accepted by the Committee as showing- by my right hon. Friend the Member for the desire there is on the part of the Go- Carlisle, during the period when he was vernment to secure the most advantageous First Lord of the Admiralty-namely, the expenditure of the large sums intrusted to continuous service system. I find in the their care. I have thus detained the Com- Report that the Commissioners entirely mittee with this explanation, comparing confirm the view which I then ventured to the year 1858 with the year 1852, and express. I think we may rely with con trust the result of the comparison I have fidence on the ordinary manning of our instituted will be to impress the Committee fleet upon that system, and I hope the and the public out of doors with the idea House will enable the Government to carry that as far as it is in the power of the out that system into still more efficient Executive Government the expenditure of operation. I believe, indeed, that there these sums has been regulated by a sense of duty and by a desire to exercise the utmost practical economy.

is no recommendation in the Report of the Commission, from the beginning to the end of it, which is not at least entitled to the I will now turn to the Estimates which prompt and serious consideration of Her I propose for the ensuing year, and to the Majesty's Government; but I will not at first Vote, Sir, which I shall place in your present express any opinion on the plan rehands at the conclusion of this statement commended by the Commissioners for the -namely, to the amount of Men for which general manning of the navy, but I may we intend to ask. Before I proceed to say that I believe it presents a fair prospect say anything with regard to this Vote for ensuring the accomplishment of the I wish to refer to the Report which great object for which it was devised. bas just been placed in the hands of The Vote for men that we are now hon. Members, and which was looked for going to propose is, I admit, of a very with very great auxiety by the public. I unusual amount. I believe it is the largest allude to the Report of the Commission Vote of men ever proposed in this House moved for by the hon. and gallant Officer in a time of peace, and I admit, therefore, opposite (Sir Charles Napier) on the Manning of the Navy. As that Report has only been in the hands of hon. Members two or three days, and I had not the advantage of seeing it more than two or three days before it was communicated to

that we are bound to show strong reasons for its justification. I trust that looking at the present aspect of public affairs, and in the present state of public affairs and of our naval service, the Committee will not hesitate to confirm the opinion of Her

usual amount. There were several sloops and other smaller vessels there, but no frigates, and I therefore sent them two new frigates. The result is that on foreign stations we have now 1,786 men more than we had this time twelvemonth.

Majesty's Government, that we should not | siderable in crease in the Pacific. We have have done our duty to the country if we at present on that station 12 ships with 281 had not boldly asked Parliament for this guns and 2,845 men, being 661 more than increase of force. But I will speak without we had this time last year. The main cause disguise on this subject. Apparently, there of that augmentation of force has been the is only a difference in the Vote for the discovery of gold mines at the Fraser River, coming year, as compared with the one and the rise of new interests in that quar just passed, of 3,000 men; but, in reality, ter which it has become our duty to prothe increase is much more considerable. tect. We received most urgent requests The same demands are not now made on from British Columbia to increase our naval our naval force in distant parts of the world force there, but some of the ships that which were made twelve months ago. we sent out will be shortly recalled. In The force in China is at present re- the Mediterranean, also, our force has been duced by about one-half; during the last increased. It consists of 23 ships and twelve months ships have returned from dis- 5,951 men, being 777 more men than tant stations, others are now returning, and were there last year. The main cause of it will be my duty in the course of a few days this increase was, that on acceding to the to issue further recalls. It is hardly possible office I now hold, I found that our force in for me to state the amount of men which the Mediterranean was much below the may thus be placed at the disposal of the Government; but I think I may say that, compared with last year, the real available increase in men for the home service must amount to nearer 7,000 men than 3,000. I shall now proceed to state the mode in which these men will be employed at home. I will now advert to another heavy item I hold in my hand a statement, showing in the Vote for this year-namely, the the disposal of Her Majesty's naval forces Channel squadron. Our Channel squadron at the different stations to which they are at present consists of eight ships-of-the line, attached; and I find from it in the month and four frigates. I include two ships-the of January, 1858, we had in the East In- Cæsar and Diadem-which will be shortly dia and China scas a force of 68 ships, recalled from Central America, where they with 767 guns and 10,000 men. That are doing temporary duty. The Comforce is now reduced to 47 ships, with 374 mittee will remember that a year ago it guns and 4,875 men, showing a reduction was my duty to state that we had no Chanof upwards of 5,000 men. But the Com-nel squadron whatever; that we had no mittee will bear in mind that this state- naval defence of our own coast. I stated ment includes the marines attached to those ships, and thus the proportionate reduction of men under the Vote we are now considering, is considerably less than the number I have just stated. On the coast of Africa, the difference between the last and the present year is very small. We have now at the Cape and the east and west coast of Africa 36 ships, with about 200 guns, and about 3,200 men, or about 200 men less than we had twelve months ago. At present it is not our intention to increase that force; and we entertain a confident expectation that we shall enter into arrange. ments with France and the United States by which we shall be enabled to operate more effectually for the suppression of the slave trade, and at a less cost than we have hitherto done. I believe that by sending out steamships of smaller tonnage, or gunboats, our objects will be more effectually carried out. We have a slight increase of 278 men on the North American and West Indian station; and we have a con

emphatically, that in my opinion, we ought to provide a Channel squadron, and I promised that as soon as I had the means at my disposal, such a squadron should be fitted out. Before the close of the summer, the Channel squadron consisted of six line-of-battle ships and three frigates, to which was shortly afterwards added another powerful frigate. The six line-ofbattle ships on the home service, were the Royal Albert, Renown, Orion, Cæsar, Victor Emmanuel, and Brunswick. I have heard it said that this Channel squadron is really too weak to be of any avail to the country. [An hon. MEMBER: Hear, hear!] My hon. Friend's cheer gives me to understand that he is of that opinion. But I hope the Committee will, at all events, admit that it is a good commencement of the defence of our coast. My hon. Friend will admit that seven of these line-of-battle ships are of the best and most powerful class. Perhaps I cannot say that the Brunswick is a very powerful ship. But as I have

"Another recommendation of the Committee of

1852, which has not hitherto been carried into effect, is the maintaining an adequate reserve of seamen in the home ports. They observed that from the information and evidence that had been laid before them during the progress of the inquiry, they had been led to the conclusion that it was desirable to keep a larger force at home than

commended, that your Majesty's navy should bo maintained at such a numerical force in commission as, independently of the Channel squadron, will admit of 10,000 seamen and boys (exclusive of officers) being retained in England for the protection of the ports and the coasts of the united kingdom.'

stated, this squadron is at present de- | very difficult to speak with perfect accuracy. prived of the services of the Caesar and the Every one at all conversant with the busiDiadem, despatched to the coast of Central ness of the admiralty knows that the num America on temporary service. They are ber of men fluctuates from day to day, as now recalled, and in the meantime I can one ship comes into port and another leaves state for the consolation of the gallant Ad- it; but I think I am correct in informing the miral (Sir C. Napier) that very recently House that, after all the men are allotted two powerful line-of-battle ships, the St. to the different ports and ships in various Jean d'Acre and the Algiers, have been parts of the world, we shall have a surplus added to the home force. In a short time force at home of about 3,000 men. This the squadron will be further augmented by brings me to a recommendation I find in two powerful frigates the Mersey and the the very able Report of the Commission ap. Doris. Therefore assuming the return of pointed to inquire into the means of Manthe Caesar and the Diadem, the Channel ning the Navy. It is substantially the squadron will consist of eight powerful line- same recommendation as that of the Comof battle ships and six frigates; and when mittee of naval officers that inquired into joined by the force in the Mediterranean, of the same subject in 1852. I will read the four line-of-battle ships and two frigates, the passage in the Report of the last Commiscombined sqadron in the Channel will con- sion referring to the advantage of having a sist of twelve line-of-battle ships and eight reserve of scamen at home :frigates, in all twenty ships of war. The gallant Admiral may say that this force is not sufficient; but it is a stronger squadron than we have maintained for many years in our home waters, and I earnestly hope it will be found sufficient; but, if not, I am confident the House will place at the dis-had been customary of late years; and they reposal of Her Majesty's Government the means of making it so to any extent required. The question now arises whether the force of men I am now asking for is on the one hand justified by our national requirements, and whether on the other hand it will be sufficient for any service it may fairly be expected to have to perform. am perfectly aware that I may be exposed to the double charge of secking to raise too large and too small a force. [Sir C. NAPIER: Hear, hear!] The gallant Admiral intimates that the number is not sufficient; but it is an unusually large force. The estimate prepared for last year by the right hon. Baronet the Member for Halifax (Sir C. Wood) was 2,000 men more than the increased estimate for 1857, and amounted altogether to 37,000 seamen. The present Government found the estimate made for that number when it came into office; and, after mature consideration, thought the late Government had not asked for a greater force than the public service required; we adopted that estimate, and it is now my duty to ask for such an addition to it as will place at our disposal an additional force of 3,000 men. As to the manner in which they will be employed, I have already stated what are the demands of our foreign stations, what are our intentions with regard to the Channel squadron. In dealing with figures of this kind it is

"The evidence before us shows that, when a ship

Iof war is commissioned, the most costly part of her greater part of the crew, immediately become a complement, namely, the officers, and perhaps the charge upon the State, and continue so for several weeks, and even months, during which she is unable to put to sea for want of the smaller portion of her crew; while the whole expense of the ship which she was intended to relieve is going on.

"We are, therefore, of opinion that a reserve of seamen should always be maintained in the home ports, ready to complete the crews of ships put in commission, for the relief of foreign stations, and event of a sudden armament. The number to be as the best and most prompt of all reserves in the thus retained in the home ports should bear a relation to the number in commission; and, with our present peace establishment, we think that it should not be less than 4,000 besides those retained in the harbour guard-ships. Such an arrangement also would afford a ready means of giving a systematic training in gunnery to all the men in your Majesty's naval service." With this recommendation I most cordially concur; and I beg to add, that before I was aware that the Report would contain any such passage, the Government had decided-I might say, in deference to the Report of 1852, but rather in deference to common sense and the obvious necessity of the case-not to come before Parliament

with the estimates of this year without | expense per man and the number of officers asking for such a number of men as would employed. Before I quit the subject of the enable them to secure a reserve in the men there is one other subject to which I home ports. I believe that no one who wish to advert-I mean the practice adopthas paid any attention to the subject can ed by the late Board of Admiralty of sendentertain a moment's doubt as to the ex- ing out sailing line-of-battle ships as the pediency and the necessity of such a mea- flag-ships of the Admirals on foreign stasure. Bearing on the passage I have read tions. My opinion is, that this practice from the Report of the Commission, I have leads to a very unnecessary expense, and here a statement that will fully confirm it. at the same time interferes with the effiFrom that statement it appears, that when ciency of our naval force. The flagships the Genges was commissioned she re- on our foreign stations, with the number of mained in harbour 110 days before she men in each was, till lately, as follows: completed her crew; the Diadem commis- Calcutta, 720; Boscawen, 650; Cumbersioned in August, 1857, was detained 135 land, 650; Ganges, 720; Indus, 650: days, and did not go to sea till January, Total, 3,390. I have received remon1858; the Resown, commissioned in No- strances on this point from more than one vember, 1857, was detained 172 days for of our admirals on foreign stations, leading the same purpose, and then sailed with to the belief that sailing line-of-battle ships sixty-two men short of her complement; are not well fitted for the services of flagthe Marlborough was delayed 129 days, ships, and I am sure the House will see and the Euryalus 121. These are ships the force of the objections taken by them. manned within the last few years; one of Sir Michael Seymour has complained of the them was delayed six months, all of them unfitness of his ship-the Calcutta-for an average period of four months, before the duties in which he has been engaged. they obtained their crews. Now, I ask The House is well aware that at one period the House whether it thinks the ingenuity last year there was some probability of a of any enemy could devise anything more difference between this country and the humiliating or more calculated to impress United States, arising out of the circumforeign nations with a conviction of the de- stances connected with the suppression of cay of the naval power of England than the slave trade on the coast of Cuba. At the fact that our ships of war remain in that time it was essential that our naval port four, five, and six months together, force should be in a most efficient state. unable to obtain their complement of sea- But just then I received a letter from Sir men? I trust there will be but one feel- Houston Stewart, stating that his flaging in the House as to the necessity of ship, the Indus, was altogether unfit for putting an end to a state of things so humi- active service. This may be said of these liating. We therefore ask for such a num-flag-ships generally, and, in addition to ber of men as will place a surplus force at their being unfit for the kind of service our disposal sufficient to maintain a reserve in which they ought naturally to be emof seamen in our home ports. In regard ployed on foreign stations, they are tak to the employment of that reserve, I have ing up a number of men who might be to state that we have exactly adopted the more usefully employed elsewhere. In my recommendation of the right hon. Baronet opinion, it is better policy to let the admiopposite and of the Commission, of which rals on foreign stations carry their flags in he was a member, by providing that the screw frigates. This would cause a very sailors, while waiting for active employ-considerable saving in regard to men, while ment, shall be exercised in gunnery, and the screw-steamers would be really fit to thus improved in that practice connected render good service on the stations-the with guns which is so essential to the effi-saving in men if screw-frigates were subciency of the service. The expense of this additional force of 3,000 men is not in proportion to the number of men required. The estimate for the wages of seamen for the current year is £2,487,062; this amount would have been £44,400 more had it not been for the fact that our naval force now consists of a larger number of large ships, and a smaller number of small ones, which diminishes the average

stituted for the flag-ships I have mentioned, would be sufficient to add another effective line-of-battle-ship to our force at home. Acting on this belief, I have recalled flag-ships from some stations and replaced them with screw steamers; while in other instances it has been found more convenient to allow the ships to finish their time on the stations on which they are placed. As a rule, in future the