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England, and whether it is his intention then, another proposition had been made

to propose any measure on the subject during the present Session; and if o, when he will be prepared to introduce the same?

him notice of his intention to put the Question, he should have been prepared with an explicit answer. Any assistance involving a guarantee on the part of the Government, applied for by the Telegraph Company, or any other Company, would only be granted conditionally that the undertaking was in a working state.

by the Company, to which the Government had responded, their answer being founded on the principle he had just adverted to. Whether the terms had been accepted MR. WHITESIDE said, the Chief Se- upon the conditions offered by the Governcretary for the Home Department had sub-ment he was not at that moment prepared mitted to the authorities in Ireland a to say. If the hon. Member had given valuable paper issued by the Statute Law Commissioners upon the subject of the Criminal Law. The question there dis cussed related to the consolidation of the Criminal Law whether there should be one set of statutes for both countries, or whether the laws of each country should be kept distinct. A report had been made recommending one set of statutes for both countries, and that those statutes should be consolidated. He begged to state that he was ready, upon any day the Chancellor of the Exchequer could give an opportunity to the Attorney General for England for bringing in his measure, to lend his hon. and learned Friend every assistance in his

power.

THAMES CONSERVANCY BOARD. QUESTION. GENERAL CODRINGTON said, he would beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury Whether the Commissioners of Woods and Forests have received the full particulars of account which the Thames Conservancy Board was bound to deliver on the 1st of February in each year; and whether that account will be laid before Parliament ?

SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE said, the Commissioners had received the returns for 1857, which would be laid before Parliament. The last returns sent in had not given full particulars; and they were consequently referred back to the Commissioners to make them perfect. He expected that in a few days they would be ready to be laid on the table of the House.

THE ATLANTIC TELEGRAPH COMPANY.
QUESTION.

MR. WYLD said, he desired to ask whether Her Majesty's Government have guaranteed any sum of money to be given to the Atlantic Telegraph Company.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, that the Atlantic Telegraph Company had made a proposition to the Government some time ago which involved a guarantee. The Government, however, came to a resolution to grant no guarantees orsubsidies upon unconditional terms. Since

LANDS TITLES AND REGISTRATION
BILLS. QUESTION.

MR. HADFIELD said, he would ask the Solicitor General whether he had any objection to delay the second reading of the Lands Titles and Registration Bills, to give time for consideration, or what course he intends to adopt?

THE SOLICITOR GENERAL said, that the Bills in question stood for Monday next. If the prior business on the paper should be disposed of at a sufficiently early hour, he hoped that the House would assent to the second reading on that day. If, however, it were found not possible to proceed with the measures on Monday next, he should, at the earliest day on which the state of public business would allow, proceed with the Bills.

REFORM BILLS FOR SCOTLAND AND

IRELAND.-QUESTION.

MR. BAXTER said, he wished to know whether it was the intention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, following the precedent of the noble Lord the Member for the City of London in introducing his Reform Bill, to make a general statement with regard to his proposal for amending the laws relating to the representation of the people in Scotland and Ireland, as well as in England and Wales; and, also, whether he would undertake that the Scotch and Irish Bills should be introduced before the House was asked to read the English Bill a second time. If he received a satisfactory answer to this question, he should not proceed with the Motion of which he had given notice on this subject.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER: Sir, the hon. Gentleman has not

given me notice of his intention to put this question. I do not, however, complain of him for not having done so, but I merely mention it as not being in accordance with a custom which has been found conducive to the general convenience of the House. In regard to the question itself of the hon. Gentleman, I wish to treat the House with candour, and to err rather on the side of over-communicativeness than in anything like reserve. I, however, put it to the House whether, in the position in which I am now placed-being on the eve of introducing an important measure into Parliament -whether it is quite fair to put to me such questions as those of the hon. Member. I confess I do not think I could give a satisfactory answer to him without entering into details upon which at this moment I do not think it would be convenient I should enter; but I will undertake that the hon. Gentleman shall not suffer by the reserve which I feel I am justified in now keeping; because he shall have opportunities before the House is called upon to assent to the second reading of my Billif I shall be permitted to reach that stage -of making the statement he appears so desirous of communicating. The House will, at all events, before the second reading of the Bill, go more than once into Committee of Supply, when the hon. Gentleman will be in as good a position as at this moment for bringing forward his Question.

It was

sources of trade and commerce.
evident that the persons most fitted for
such duties would be persons who had a
special training for the purpose, or who at
least were acquainted with commercial
matters. The House would recollect that
a Committee had been appointed to inquire
into the subject of the Consular Service,
last year, owing to an opinion entertained
by many hon. Members, that the service
required a more close and complete organi-
zation, by which the commerce of the
country would be benefited.
He was
Chairman of that Committee; and he
wished to express his deep sense of the
moderation and good feeling which pre-
vailed among members of the Committee,
who agreed to an unanimous report, which,
however, did not come up altogether to the
views entertained by some of them. The
report did not recommend the limitation of
the persons to be chosen for the Consular
Service, but left a large and free scope to
the Foreign Office with regard to the se-
lection of gentlemen for those posts. Still
they wished to place some restrictions on
the free action hitherto allowed to the
Foreign Secretary. They recommended
for instance that in the Levant, and the
countries conterminous to the Levant, there
should be as much professional character
in the consuls as possible, and as much
distinction between them and the general
consuls in Europe as possible; and also
that in one portion of the globe there
should be continued the close consular

On the Motion that the House at its service which was found to be in existence. rising do adjourn to Monday next,

THE CONSULAR APPOINTMENTS AT

JAPAN.

OBSERVATIONS.

MR. M. MILNES said, that according to notice, he rose to call the attention of the House to the appointment of Consuls and Vice-Consuls to Japan, in connection with the evidence and report of the recent Committee on the Consular Service, and in so doing he should not occupy the attention of the House for any length of time. The enterprise and skill of our fellowCountrymen having recently opened and brought into contact with this country a nation hitherto almost unknown, the Government very properly organized a body of English representatives who were to repair to that country to protect our interests and do their best to open fresh

It was in evidence before the Committee, and stated by Mr. Hammond, that no one was appointed to the Consular Service in China and Siam who had not been regulary educated for that Service. Therefore, in framing the Consulate of Japan, which was analogous to that of China, it was natural to suppose that the same rule which the Foreign Office had wisely established would be followed. The Government had, indeed, most judiciously placed at the head of the Consulate of Japan, Mr. Rutherford Alcock, of whom he would speak with all praise, and of whom it might be said, in the words of the Quarterly Review, that he had filled every function in China, from a viceroy to a baliff. This gentleman was appointed to the head of the establishment on account of his knowledge of China and Siam, the Foreign Office considering the duties to be performed by him in Japan to be of an analogous description. But it might be

fairly asked, why had not the system been entirely carried out? Why, out of eleven appointments, should there be any which were not satisfactory to the commercial community? Why, with the wide field open to the noble Lord with all persons in China and Siam to choose from, were persons chosen in this country who were not fitted for the duties of the office? If the ten others were eminently fitted, it might be said, why be critical with regard to the eleventh ? He was not a stern purist in matters where the public interest was not involved. But as regarded Captain Vyse, it was like the First Lord of the Admiralty saying that there were an immense number of lieutenancies in the navy, and why should not he put one of his friends into one of them, although the person appointed had never served in the navy at all. The Committee on the

Consular Service had recommended this part of the consular establishment to be close service, not only on account of the high salaries which were attached to the appointments, but because of the peculiar duties to be discharged, persons were required who had gone through much previous labour, and obtained much experience. The Committee, therefore, had a right to complain that in the first scheme of appointments since they made their report their recommendations were not complied with. The practice at the Foreign Office had been for the first time departed from, and that in the teeth of the recommendations of the Committee, and he (Mr. Milnes) as Chairman of that Committee, wished to express their feeling that on the first opportunity their recommendations were not carried out. He did not wish to exag gerate the case, but with so large a scope as the Foreign Minister possessed it was surprising that it was even now thought advisable to make appointment of persons so unfitted for their duties, and to cast such a slur both on the Consular Service and the resolutions of the Com

mittee.

MR. SEYMOUR FITZGERALD: Sir, I cannot complain of the observations made by the hon. Gentleman, inasmuch as it affords me the opportunity of making a full, and I believe more satisfactory state ment, than I was able to make on a former occasion, in reply to a question from the hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Wise). At the same time, I was in hopes that the reply I was then enabled to give would have tended to prevent a repetition of

questions of this kind, which being personal in their character, and, in my opinion, somewhat invidious, ought not, I am sure, according to the notions of the House, to be entered into unless some imperative necessity, or the good of the public service, require them to be raised. I was certainly inclined to hope that the answer I gave to the question of the hon. Member for Stafford was sufficient to manifest the great care and attention paid to those appointments by the head of the Foreign Office, and consequently that it would have prevented the repetition of such a question coming, at all events, from the hon. Gentleman opposite, who, I must say, for many years has not troubled the House with any remarks upon appointments of a similar character, although I venture humbly to think that many of them must have been open to objection. I certainly thought that we should not have heard such a subject broached by the hon. Gentleman, who, upon no occasion-certainly not with regard to appointments made in high quarters, and where possibly qualifications might have been in question-has yet thought it his duty to make any comment. At the same time, as I said, I believe I shall be able to give a most satisfactory answer to the statement of the hon. Member. I think it will be found that the hon. Gentleman, in the course he has thought proper to take, is an instance how argu. ments and statements which are rather calculated to provoke a smile than to carry conviction are sometimes found in the mouths of those who are ordinarily considered gentlemen of intelligence and acuteness. The hon. Gentleman has put the case before the House not exactly on the ground chosen by 'the hon. Member for Stafford. The hon. Gentleman has put the case rather on the ground that, according to the evidence given before the Consular Committee, appointments of this kind should not be made inasmuch as those promotions should be considered as of a close and exclusive character. Now, the evidence certainly did point to the propriety of maintaining the Consular Service in China as an exclusive and close service; and we were told by Mr. Hammond, my colleague, that a considerable expense had been incurred in order to induce young men to enter the lower branches of the consular service in China, because it was thought necessary to obtain for those who were hereafter to fill the higher appointments a practical know

ledge of the Chinese language. I am motions which have taken place in the Con willing to admit that the ground upon which sular establishments of China? In protesting this large expense had been incurred was a against the appointment of Captain Vyse sound and proper ground; and that this to a Vice-Consulship in Japan, the hon. Consular Service should be regarded as far Gentleman opposite (Mr. M. Milnes) forgets as possible as an exclusive and close ser- to inquire as to what has been done in vice. But what is the hon. Gentleman's China in respect of offices for which these proposition now, and what does he ask the student interpreters are really well qualiHouse to assent to? The hon. Gentleman fied. I find that student interpreters have says that we have gone to a great expense been selected for offices at Amoy, Tehinin educating young men in the knowledge Sin, Nang po, Foo-choo-foo, and Tchinof the Chinese language, and that we have Sin Wang. Taking the names of first a right to hold out to them the prospect of assistants, I find those of Mr. Leigh, promotion in the Consular Service in China. Mr. Gregory, Mr. Hughes, and Mr. Adams; Therefore, those Consular servants ought and as second assistants at Canton and to be appointed in places where the Chinese Shanghai, I find Mr. Jones and Mr. Howlett, language is utterly unknown, where the who have been student interpreters. There manners and customs of the people are are no less than seven student interpreters wholly different, and where even the lan- who are to be appointed on Mr. Bruce's guage of interpretation is different. We selection, there being only thirteen at preshould, he says, have taken those young sent in the training establishment. Why, men whom we have gone to the trouble and so numerous have been the promotions expense of educating in the Chinese lan- that we are ourselves utterly denuded guage from a place where their knowledge of students who have a competent knowwould be very useful and have placed them ledge of the Chinese language. Those where their acquirements would be wholly who are not receiving promotions are useless, and in a wholly different service to the students who have been sent out at that for which we expressly intended them. the latest period, and who, consequently, As I have observed, the service in Japan do not possess those qualifications which is totally different to that in China. The the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Monckton Milnes) hon. Gentleman has referred in terms of says would be so valuable-namely, knowapprobation to the appointment of Mr. ledge of Chinese to be used in Japan. Alcock. It was thought advisable to put The hon. Gentleman also found fault with at the head of the service a gentleman long Captain Vyse's appointment, because the known in the East by his successful efforts gallant officer is not a commercial man. to promote trade, whose character was Now, Sir, on that part of the case, the first respected, and whose fame might possibly question I should like to ask is this-Is it have extended to the seat of his future to be a rule laid down by this House, or is labours. But when the hon. Gentleman it to be a rule laid down by any Committee speaks of the necessity of appointing com- of this House, that having served Her mercial gentlemen to those posts, let us Majesty either in the army or the navy, is consider how far advisable it is for us to to be a disqualification for appointment in limit ourselves to that exclusive service. the Consular Service? The hon. GentleWhat is Mr. Alcock? He has been in man has referred to the case of Mr. Alcock); the army. The very gentleman spoken of and I shall take the liberty of alluding to by the hon. Member, as a good specimen another. There are few gentlemen in this of what a consul ought to be, has been a country at all acquainted with Chinese military surgeon. Surely, it was not by affairs to whom the name of Mr. Wade is his surgical experience that he became pe- unknown. I believe a more distinguished culiarly qualified for the office of Consul. man is not in the service. Well, then, His avocations in that respect were not Mr. Wade was in the army and served calculated to confer upon him any of those in the 93rd Highlanders, with distinction qualifications which the hon. Member seems in China. [Cheers from the Opposition.] to think essential for a Consul in China. I perceive from that cheer that it was not It is now a fair question to ask, even sup- the possession of commercial knowledge or posing that it was a desirable thing to pro- a knowledge of the language of the counmote those student interpreters in China to try, but the fact of his having led a comoffices in Japan on the ground of their under-pany of his regiment in China, that in the standing a language which would be utterly opinion of hon. Gentlemen opposite constiuseless to them there-what are the pro- tute Mr. Wade's qualification for a consular

appointment in China. There are many | Gentleman (Mr. M. Milnes) has taken under others who entered the Consular Service his protection. I hope, for the sake of the in subordinate positions and afterwards country, and of those engaged in the Conworked their way to very distinguished sular Service, that having put these facts posts, for which their fitness is generally fairly and candidly before the House and admitted. Taking Central America, I the country, we shall cease to hear of find the names of Mr. Wyke and Mr. Chal-these-I will not use any offensive wordsfield. Then we find the Consulship of the but these unfair attacks on appointments Levant and Aleppo filled by Mr. Skene. such as this, an appointment of a gentleWho was he? An officer in the British man of ability and station to a service in service. In the army and navy officers which I hope and believe he will in future acquire habits of discipline, of attention, distinguish himself. of responsibility, of decision, and willing- MR. WISE said, that he and his hon. ness to act upon their own judgment in Friend wished, and, indeed, it was more cases of emergency; all of which habits expedient to discuss these matters on prinare, in my opinion, most valuable for a ciple, and not on personal grounds. HowConsul. So far from disqualifying gentle- ever, if he wanted to quote an example men for Consular appointments, it is a which should encourage him to continue in fact that the army and navy have given the course he had pursued with reference the Consular Service some of the most to these appointments, he should refer to valuable public servants that the British the speech made in 1842 by the right Government can boast of. One word more hon. Gentleman the leader of that House, and I have done. The hon. Gentleman on Consular appointments, made by the spoke of this appointment as a valuable noble Lord the Member for Tiverton. one; and I heard the remark made by In that speech, the right hon. Gentleothers, that the amount of salary for this man stated that those appointments were office is considerable. Sir, the amount of owing to political influence. The hon. salary paid for any office must be regarded Gentleman, the Under-Secretary for Foin relation to the nature of the duty to be reign Affairs (Mr. S. FitzGerald), thereperformed, and the circumstances under fore had no right to complain that the queswhich it is to be discharged. I do not tion of his hon. Friend (Mr. M. Milnes), think, looking at the expense of living in was intrusive and invidious. The Underthe East, and to the utter severance of all Secretary of State had not at all alluded home and social ties, which a man must to the question really before the House. sustain when he takes an appointment in What he principally complained of was the distant region of Japan-I do not this,-that instead of permitting persons think such a salary as that which Captain well qualified to act as Vice-Consuls, and Vyse is to receive is too large to tempt a discharge the important duties of the Conman to leave his country. An hon. Gentle- sul when ill or absent, persons were selected man, a Member of this House, well known who had not been accustomed to commerfor the magnitude of his transactions, has cial habits, and had never studied the told me that within a very recent period people of the country. The Government he sent out a young man to take a part in might have provided for their young friends commercial affairs in China. He had to by appointing them to some of the Dutch pay him £700 for the first year, £800 Consulates, where there was little to do, for the next, and at the present time this and sending the Consuls from Amsteryoung man, who is not yet three-and- dam, Rotterdam, or Surinam, to Japan, twenty years of age, is receiving a salary where their knowledge of the Dutch lanof £1,000 per annum. I would ask, then, guage would have been available, as that whether such a salary as Captain Vyse is was the medium of interpretation in Jato receive is likely to make the appointment pan. But he was still more anxious to one for which there would be great compe- call the attention of the Government to tition. Sir, I have already stated those the fact, that the gentleman recently apappointments in China which were conse-pointed to Japan had not been, and could quent on the new arrangements were strictly not be, nominated according to the rules of appointments in the shape of promotions. I have now shown the House that the vacancies created by those appointments have been filled up strictly and exclusively from the ranks of that class which the hon. VOL. CLII. [THIRD SERIES.]

the Foreign Office itself. Indeed, it was not to be expected that a young gentleman like Captain Vyse, could be qualified to discharge the responsible duties which, in the absence of the Consul-General, might 2 F

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