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applied for permission to use a certain QUESTION.

weighing machine for weighing paper General BUCKLEY asked the Secre. charged with duty. The machines were tary of the Treasury whether he has had i referred to the Commissioners of Inland any representation from Surveyors of Taxes Revenue, who thought that such machines respecting their salaries; and also respect were not safe for the purpose of the pub

Jic revenue. ing some fresh arrangements of the classi..

It was described here as the fication of their offices ?

weighing-machine used in the Department SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE said, of Customs; and when an objection was that no representation had reached the raised against it that it was not secure, Treasury on the subject, and he was in. Messrs. Rawlins said it was used in the formed that none had been made to the Department of Customs. It was true it Commissioners of Inland Revenue. He

bad been used to a limited extent, but the had, however, received a pamphlet entitled Customs were by no means satisfied with “Statement of the case of the Surveyors it, as it was very liable to get out of order of Taxes respectfully submitted to the without the error being immediately de. consideration of Members of Parliament." tected. There was a further reason which That was, however, not the usual

rendered it unadvisable. of

The machines way submitting a representation of the kind, used by the Commissioners of Customs nor, he must add, was it a very convenient were kept under the Government lock. mode to be adopted by any class of public

With regard to the last part of the hon. servants for addressing the Government.

Gentleman's question, the Treasury Letter, no doubt, required the use of a beam

and scales. Exceptions might be taken to NAVY MEDICAL SERVICE.

the word “beam,” inasmuch as there was

no such word in the Act of Parliament ; QUESTION.

nevertheless, it was quite clear that scales SIR ERSKINE PERRY asked the could not be used without a beam. First Lord of the Admiralty whether, on going into the Navy Estimates to morrow, he would be enabled to state the decision

THE ARMY.-THE BAND CIIARGE. of Government as to the claims of the

QUESTION. Navy Medical Service, to be placed on a MR. LAURIE asked the Secretary of footing of equality with the Army Medi. State for War when the Officers of the cal Service, in point of rank and other ad- Army are to be relieved from the Band vantages, such as they enjoyed before the charge, whether the Queen's Regiments issuing of the Royal Warrant of October, now employed in India would be also re1858 ?

lieved from it ; and whether any arrangeSir JOHN PAKINGTON said, it was ment had been made to enlarge the School his intention, in the statement he proposed of Musketry at Hythe? to make in moving the Naval Estimates, GENERAL PEEL said, it would be in the to express the views he bad formed upon recollection of the House that some time the subject referred to.

ago a question had been put to him on

the subject of the bands. He had since PAPER-WEIGHING-CASE OF MESSRS.

made an application to the Treasury to

grant relief to the officers in regard to this RAWLINS.-QUESTION.

charge. A correspondence had subseMR. CRAUFURD asked the Secretary quently taken place which formed a portion of the Treasury on what ground permission of the Minutes moved for by the hon. and had been refused to Messrs. Rawlins to gallant Member for Westminster (Sir De L. use, for weighing the paper charged with Evans). That correspondence would be duty, the weighing machine used in the shortly produced, and the hon. Memberwould Department of Custoins ; and what was then see what had been done in the matter. meant by the Treasury Letter, stating With regard to the last inquiry of the hon. that they must use a beam and scales, Gentleman he could say that no person according to law?

would be more anxious than himself to SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE said, give every facility for the enlargement and he thought the form in which the question efficiency of the School of Instruction in was put was likely to lead to confusion. Musketry, and several plans were under The facts were these :--Messrs. Rawlins the consideration of the Government in VOL. CLII. (THIRD SERIES. ]

2 C

this matter. An additional expenditure of whether it was true that a French steam £20,000 had been made for establishing avi o, with two French cutters, had entered a school of gunnery at Shoeburyness. Spithead a few nights ago, and after the

exehange of a few words of courtesy, these ARMY VETERINARY SURGEONS. vessels had proceeded to Stokes Bay in

the night, and had taken soundings there? QUESTION,

Also whether he knew that these vessels MR. ALEXANDER BARING asked had more than the usual complement of the Secretary of State for War whether it

officers ? is his intention to make any alterations SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, that in the pay, rank, and retiring allowances the hon. and gallant Admiral had given of Veterinary Surgeons in the Army, and him notice of his question, which he would if so, what those alterations were ?

answer to this effect. He bad received GENERAL PEEL said, a warrant had information from Portsmouth that two or been prepared, the effect of which would three nights ago a French vessel, accombe to improve the rank, pay, and retiring panied by two cutters, had anchored at allowances of the army veterinary sur-Spithead; that they got under weigh geons. That document had to receive the during the night, but were at anchor again sanction of the Commander in Chief with the following morning. Whether they took regard to the rank and position of these soundings in Stokes Bay, he confessed he officers, and of the Treasury with respect was not in a position to state positively to to the pay. Until it had passed through the House. The fact, however, he bethat ordeal, he did not think it advisable to lieved to be this, that the officers of those mention the precise nature of the altera- vessels had been for a long time doing duty tions to be made.

on the coast of England, being engaged in

the operation of protecting the French MANNING THE NAVY.-QUESTION. fisheries. That was the ground on which

SIR CHARLES NAPIER, on behalf they constantly visited our waters. He of Sir Joseph Paxton, asked the Secretary was not aware that there was anything of State for the Home Department whether more remarkable in their visit the other there is any objection to the production of night than heretofore, nor had be any reason the letter addressed by the hon. Member for supposing that there were more officers for Tynemouth to Lord Hardwicke, stating employed on the occasion alluded to than his reasons for declining to sign the Report the ordinary complement. of the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the best mode of Manning the Navy? Mr. WALPOLE said, he had no objec

THE NAVY ESTIMATES. tion to the publication of the letter referred SIB JOHN PAKINGTON: As I stand to as soon as he had it before him. The in rather a peculiar position with regard to facts of the case were these :--The Re- the duty which I proposed to discharge toport was presented to him on Saturday morrow, I hope that the House will allow last, and with the leave of Her Majesty, me to explain the course which I intend to he had laid it before the House. The take. The noble Lord the Member for Appendix contained a letter of the hon. Tiverton (Viscount Palmerston), has given Member for Tynemouth (Mr. W. S. Lindsay) notice that he will tomorrow bring the to Lord Hardwicke, and was not yet in subject of foreign policy under the conhis hands. The moment he received it he sideration of the House. What the inwould lay it upon the table. He regretted tentions of the noble Lord may be, of that the Appendix and the Report were course, I cannot say ; but it is obviously not published together. His reason for probable that when a question of foreign laying the Report before the House with policy is raised in this House it may lead out the Appendix was because he thought to a debate. The hon. Member for Berit was the wish of the House to have that wick and the hon. Member for Montrose Report in their hands before the Naval have also notices on the paper upon going Estimates came under their consideration,

into Committee of Supply. I fear, there

fore, that I must remain in the same state FRENCH VESSELS ON THE BRITISH

of uncertainty that I have hitherto been as COAST.-QUESTION.

to whether I can or cannot to-morrow perSir CHARLES NAPIER wished to form the difficult task of making my stateask the First Lord of the Admiralty ment on the Navy Estimates. Under these

lowing Friday. ALMERS

circumstances it is fair to the House that I | tianity, should be rendered to any of the Native should explain that if I can begin my state- religions ; nor any processions, or other public ment before eight o'clock I shall proceed to exhibitions, allowed, which may disturb the public do so ; but that I shall not begin after eight humanity, or the religious convictions of any class o'clock. In that case my statement on the of Her Majesty's subjects in India. Navy Estimates will be deferred till Mon- 3. That, regarding Caste as a distinction rather day, and my right hon. Friend the Chan- of race, than of religion, and opposed to the moral cellor of the Exchequer will be obliged to House is of opinion that Caste ought not to be in

and social progress of the Native community, this postpone the introduction of the Bill for any way countenanced in the Government Schools, amending the representation until the fol. or in any department of the public service.

4. That, while strictly abstaining from the emViscount PALMERSTON : Of course oficial power, influence, or authority, for the pur

ployment, directly or indirectly, of political or I cannot speak for other people ; but so

pose of promoting or enforcing the extension of far as I can judge I do not apprehend that the Christian religion, it will be the duty of the the notice which I have given need inter- Indian Governments to continue their exertions fere with the right hon. Gentleman's in- for enlightening and informing the Native mind; tention of bringing on the Navy Estimates. propagation of the Gospel; and to protect the rights

to afford every facility to voluntary efforts for the But if he states that he cannot begin his of conscience, and freedom of individual action, in estimates after eight o'clock, I can only say all Her Majesty's subjects in India, whether or that he is laying down a position which is not in ller Majesty's Civil or Military Service, an entire departure from the practice pur- latter case, whether adhering to their own forms

and whether European or Native : and, in the sued by all other Ministers who have ques- of belief, or acknowledging, together with Her tions of this kind to bring on. It fre- Majesty, the One True God and Saviour of quently happened to me when I was Secre- | Mankind tary at War to have to bring on the Army rose and said :Estimates at a much later hour than that.

Mr. Speaker: I have to intreat the inI can only understand, therefore, that the course pursued by the right hon. Gentle dulgence of the House, which I am sure

will be readily granted when I say that I man is a convenient method of postponing until some future day the introduction of am addressing you, Sir, and the House prothe Bill of which notice was given for bably for the last time, while I explain the

course which circumstances have forced Monday next.

me to take, with reference to the ResoluMR. HADFIELD hoped, that his hon.

tions Friends - the Menibers for Berwick and I feel it a duty incumbent on me to do so,

have now called on me to move.

you Montrose would consent to postpone their Motions, in order to make way for the im.

here in my place, because these Resolutions portant Government measures of which no

are, as no one will doubt, of the highest tice had been given.

importance, and invested with great interest in the cyes of many thousands of excellent

persons out of doors, who are awaiting with EDUCATION AND CHRISTIANITY IN

anxiety the issue of any discussion, within INDIA.

these walls, of a subject so momentous. I have

also the honour of knowing that very many NOTICE OF MOTION WITHDRAWN,

hon. Meinbers of this House share that MR. WARREN, who had given notice anxiety, whether agreeing with, or differing of moving the following Resolutions :- from the Resolutions. You may recollect

1. That, Her Majesty having been graciously Sir, that on the last day of the last Session pleased, on assuming the Government of India, to I gave notice, in the following terms-cauproclaim to the Princes, Chiefs, and People there- tious, as I hope they will be thought-of at the same time disclaiming the right, and the my intention to submit to the llouse certain desire, to impose ller convictions on any of Her Resolutions on a very early day in the then subjects ; it is the opinion of this House, that the next Session, Government scheme of Native Education, should

“ Expressive of the opinion of this House, as include instruction in the Holy Scriptures, but

to the principles by which the Queen's Governthat no religious teaching, of any kind, should be

ment in India should hereafter be regulated, made compulsory on pupils objecting to receive it. with reference to the promotion of Education, and

2. That, scrupulously respecting the rights of the adoption of such preparatory measures as can property in the Native Religious Endowments, the be safely brought into action, with a view, ultiGovernment should leave the entire administration mately, to the extension of Christianity.” of such endowments to the Natives themselves ; and ibat no salutes, or other marks of honour in- Fully aware of the responsibility which consistent with the Royal profession of Chris- the giving of such a notice cast upon me

I have devoted a great deal of valuable time former, accepting the office, and stating duriug the recess, to the framing of these Re- inost distinctly that I did so, because I solutions, which have been submitted to the found that I could retain my seat; bis letter ablest and most experienced men to whom to me having made no allusion whatever I could get access—men of practical fami- to the matter. As I feel this a matter liarity with the subject, some of them having touching my personal honour and characresided in India, and to the preparation of ter in a vital point, I beg leave to read the such arguments, and the collection of such first portion of the letter which I sent off information, as tended to support the Reso- that evening. Jutions. Well, Sir, yesterday week (the

“Temple, 16th Feb. 1859. 16th inst.) I was busily engaged preparing

MY DEAR LORD CHANCELLOR, for this evening, when I most unexpectedly in statistics relating to my Resolutions on Educa

“When your letter reached me I was immersed received from the Lord Chancellor a letter tion and Christianity in India, specially appointed offering me,

general and unconditional for to-morrow week (Thursday the 24th inst.) terms, the vacant office of Master in Lunacy, and which have been on the Votes since the first which had, a day or two before, been the day of the Session.

“ Your offer took me altogether by surprise ; and subject of painful allusion in this House.

as I find, on referring to the statutes and authorities, I trust I need not assure the House, that that I am not disabled from sitting in Parliament, neither directly nor indirectly had I solicited being appointed not by the Crown, but by the such an offer, nor could I possibly enter- Lord Chancellor, and also during good behaviour, tain the least idea of doing anything so natured persons might have attached to me, of

| I am relieved from any imputation which illunbecoming and derogatory. After re- having sacrificed to personal considerations the discovering from the surprise into which the charge of that which I regard as a great public letter had thrown me, I took for granted duty.” that the office, being of a judicial nature,

Happening to see the Lord Chancellor would on general principles be inconsis- late that evening, he entirely concurred in tent with a seat in Parliament, and im- this view, congratulated me upon the cir. mediately wrote a letter to the Lord Chan- cumstance and requested me to attend him cellor, in which, after calling his attention in his private room in the House of Lords to my Resolutions then standing in the the next afternoon, to be sworn in. When Votes for this evening, I said —

I did so, I was greatly concerned and sur“I am profoundly in earnest in this matter, prised to find that his Lordship had in the that of attempting, however humbly and unwortlily, meantime come to the conclusion, which to lay before this House and the country, the ele- he expressed to me in the most considerate ments of a scheme of acknowledged Christian policy, for the government of a fifth of the terms, that the office of Master in Lunacy human race. If an office of £50,000 a year were

was not one that ought to be held by a offered to me, it could not and should not induce Member of the House; that be intended to me to desert my post-voluntarily occupied-and insert a prohibitory clause to that effect in subject me justly to the reproach of men, and the the pending Lunacy Bill, and could not, condemnation of my own conscience, as having under such circumstances, copfer on me the basely sold my birth-rightthe privilege of such an opportunity-for a mess of pottage. I know, my appointment, except on that footing. I dear Lord Chancellor, that no man living more begged time to consider so serious a matter, thoroughly appreciates such a feeling as this than the aspect of which had been so suddenly yourself

. ' If, therefore, it is necessary for me to altered, and in the kindest way he gave me decide between this day and Thursday the 24th instant, I beg most gratefully and respectfully at till the next evening to do so; informing me, once to decline your offer."

in answer to my inquiry, that as the busi. As I was finishing this letter, which I ness of the office was already in arrear, he now have with me, it occurred to me that could not think of keeping the office vacant, this particular office might, after all, not be as I bad proposed, till after the 24th inst. one that would require me to vacate my Having consulted with a friend in the Beat; and after carefully referring to the country, without whose advice and con. statute creating the existing jurisdiction in currence I take no step of importance in Lunacy, and other Acts of Parliament and public life, I waited on the Lord Chancellor authorities in Election law, and consulting on the ensuing evening, and told him that with a gentleman for whose opinion on these if he remained in the same mind—and he matters we all have a great respect, I came said he did, subsequent reflection having to the conclusion that acceptance of the only strengthened his conclusions -I begoffice did not interfere with my seat in Par- ged leave finally to decline the offer he had liament. On this I wrote a second letter made me, and which I said I felt it impossito the Lord Chancellor, not sending the ble to accept, without disabling me from

doing my duty, and ruining my character as of them in the House at the present moment a public man, and as a Member of this would be misunderstood in India, and consequently House, and subjecting not only myself to heart. Ever since the appearance of your Reso

jeopardize the great cause we have so much at intolerable suspicion and misrepresentation, lutions I have consulted many of my friends, on but possibly even compromising himself whose judgment I can safely rely, and whose and the Government. He cheerfully agreed, opinion I am in the habit asking, and I find seeing me so earnest, to leave the matter that they universally concur in the view I have open once more till the ensuing Monday. is meant, and give it grave consideration. Believe

above taken. I know you will receive this as it I returned direct from his Lordship’s room me, my dear Warren, to this House, and was encountered by “Yours very faithfully, RD, SPOONER." number of friends-among them four of the Subsequently to receiving this letter, mosteminent and distinguished in the House; my hon. 'Friend the Member for Perth one of them, my noble Friend, now sitting (Mr. Kinnaird) to whose opinion also, on beside me, the Member for the East Riding this subject, I felt bound to defer, com(Lord Hotham) who strenuously urged on me municated to me documentary evidence, at that my scruples were groundless, and that this moment in my possession, of an imI could with the nicest sense of honour and portant character, and, from another quarconscientiousness accept the Lord Chan. ter, decisively corroborating the views of cellor's offer, and that nobody would be the hon. Member for North Warwickshire. absurd enough to impute to me base motives Although the Lord Chancellor, who has in so doing. My noble Friend, with all the throughout behaved to me in the kindest great weight due to his character and opi. and handsomest way possible, had given nions within, and out of, this House, was me till Monday morning, I felt it my duty most decisive in the view he had taken. to wait upon him at an early hour the next To my noble Friend's powerful representa- (Saturday) morning, when he showed me tions at last I yielded, for I had just before a letter written by himself to me, lying on been made acquainted with a strangely his table, and which was to have been sent altered state of things with reference to off almost immediately. He rend it to me my Resolutions, without any reference to himself, and I only wish, so much honour those personal considerations to which I have does it reflect upon him, that I were at referred. My two hon. Friends, the Member liberty to read every word of it to the for Perth (Mr. Kinnaird) and for North House. Being marked private, however, Warwickshire (Mr. Spooner) emphatically I cannot do so. He assured me most disassured me that in the opinion of the tinctly that the idea of my proposed Resogreat religious bodies, who had bad my lutions for Thursday next had never crossed printed Resolutions under their auxious his mind, and that he had not had the consideration, the present was a most in- slightest communication with any of his opportune moment for bringing them for colleagues on the subject—that his objecward and discussing them in this House tion was on general grounds, and not in - that whatever intrinsic merit they might the smallest degree personal to myself, or have, much mischief would inevitably be with reference to my intended proceedings done in India by stirring in them here, at in this House : that he then saw clearly this present conjuncture. I beg to read to the position in which I should be placed, the House a letter which my hon. Friend and perhaps the Government also, if I (Mr. Spooner) put into my hands, and were to leave Parliament before Thursday which had very great weight with me—for next. His Lordship said again that he all in this House, I am sure, personally was the only person responsible in the respect him.

matter, and no one else had anything to “ National Club, White Hall, answer for with respect to it. He said

February 18th, 1859. finally that he should deeply regret that “My Dear WARREN, I have often had great my character should suffer on the one pleasure in consulting with you on questions in hand, or that I should be called upon to volving moral and religious considerations, and make any sacrifice on the other; and happily we have almost, if not entirely, agreed on every such occasion. Allow me now to state my

would therefore give me till Saturday next opinion, an opinion formed not without deliberate to decide whether I would or would not and anxious consideration, that the present mo accept the office; which would enable me ment is very inopportune for bringing forward and to fulfil the duty I had undertaken, and discussing your Indian Resolutions. Thoroughly as I agree in the principles laid dowu in those secure-his Lordship was pleased to sayResolutions (although differing perhaps in some my services to the public, in the office for of the details,) I greatly tear that the discussion which he considered me fitted. Sir, having

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