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per. This was the outline of the measure which he proposed to submit to the House; and in conclusion he would only say that he believed that the public were deeply interested in this question, for there had been scarcely a political meeting during the vacation at which hon. Members had not been taken to task about the matter by their constituents, and at which great disapprobation of the Act had not been expressed. It was complained that they had passed an Act which had a direct tendency to vest the possession of seats in that House in those who had property, and an indirect tendency to encourage bribery and corruption; and if that Act were allowed to remain on the Statute-book it would be very difficult to persuade the people that the House was earnest in its desire to open the House to all classes of the community and to maintain the purity of elections. The hon. Member concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to prohibit the payment of expenses of conveying Voters to the Poll, and to facilitate polling at Elections.

SIR WILLIAM FRASER said, the hon. and learned Member had informed the House that the measure of last year passed at a time when a considerable number of lawyers were absent in the discharge of their professional duties. He was not prepared to say whether that was an advantage or a disadvantage, but certainly there was no want of close reasoning on either side of the question, and if the hon. and learned Member had been in the House when this subject was discussed he would hardly have produced on this occasion arguments that had been refuted hundreds of times, and had been brought forward and repeated till the House was perfectly nauseated with them. He would not, therefore, follow the hon. and learned Gentleman in his arguments, but he would suggest, that as a Reform Bill was to be brought before them in a few days, it was hardly necessary, and would be premature, to discuss any part of the subject beforehand. The hon. Member for Birmingham and others were constantly telling them that it would be of the greatest advantage to the country that the labouring classes should have a voice in the election of Members of Parliament. Now, he (Sir W. Fraser) could not help thinking that it was a perfectly legitimate mode of enabling the poor man to exercise that privilege to convey him to the poll. It appeared to him something like mockery for a rich man

to go to a poor man and ask him to go and vote for him, and yet refuse to put his hand in his pocket to pay his expenses of going to the poll. He believed those classes would be led to take that view of the matter. There was one kind of sympathy and kindly feeling for others not uncommon, which had been described by the Rev. Sidney Smith, as A pitying B and earnestly wishing C would help him. That was about the character of the sentiment that generally came from the quarter of the House from which the hon. and learned Gentleman had spoken.

MR. WALPOLE said, before the Bill of the hon. and learned Gentleman was introduced he wished to say a few words upon the immediate subject alluded to. The hon. and learned Gentleman seemed to think that the House had been taken by surprise when the Bill of last year was passed at the end of the Session. The facts, however, were these. Early last summer attention was called to the uncertain and unsatisfactory state of the law in regard to the conveyance of voters to the poll, by an hon. and learned Gentleman sitting on the Opposition side of the House (Mr. Serjeant Deasy.) A decision given in the House of Lords was supposed to have left the question in a more uncertain state than before, and the Government were pressed from both sides of the House to introduce such a measure as would place the law on the subject upon a clear and intelligible footing. On referring to official records I find that the Bill was introduced early in June, and on the 2d July it was read a second time without a division. On the 16th July this question about the conveyance of voters was discussed, and a division was taken, when it appeared that the Ayes were 133, and the Noes only 58. Division after Division followed; and on the third reading, which took place on the 26th July, the tenth division on the Bill took place, when the third reading was carried by a majority of Ayes 93, against Noes 60. Now, he was anxious to remind the House of those facts, because, in saying that the House was taken by surprise, it appeared to him that the hon. and learned Gentleman was inclined to rely too much on the draughts of oblivion generally supposed to be quaffed during the recess. The hon. and learned Gentleman seemed to imagine that his Bill would have the effect of settling the question, which at all times was one of great difficulty to deal with; and to think that his measure, if

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the decision in " Cooper v. Slade" went | perty qualification more stringent than the only to this-that it was bribery to pay a last. Under the Act of last Session voters voter's travelling expenses on the condition would think that they had a vested right that he would vote for you. But the prin- to be conveyed to the poll, and would deem ciple of the decision went beyond that. it a slight if carriages were not sent for If the principle of the Bill of last Session them. At every contested election there was worth anything, it was the duty of the would be a rush to obtain all the hackney State, not of the candidate, to pay them. cabs, carriages, and omnibuses; and the Let the Chancellor of the Exchequer come omnibus and livery-stable interest would to the House with a Vote for the expense be in a state of great excitement. They of carrying poor voters or idle voters to would, of course, charge according to the the poll, and do not carry out the thing, if demand. The whole of that interest would it were right, by a side-wind. Or let the be bribed and bought. The corruption proposition of the hon. Member for Dover would not stop there. Many payments (Mr. Osborne) be adopted, and the expenses would be made, not really to obtain conof the candidate be paid out of the county veyances for voters, but as a cloak for rate or Consolidated Fund; and then see illegal payments, and corruption would be how the country would like it. There carried to an extent which it was impossiwere many who thought it was not de- ble to calculate. He ventured to think sirable that persons should sit in that that the Act of last Session was at variance House unless they were able to pay a with the whole current of modern legislavery considerable sum- -£1,500 was a low tion, and that it was a retrograde step. In figure for his seat. He, however, thought 1834 a Committee of that House made a that it was more important that the in- Report which was one of the most valuable telligence than the wealth of the country on their Journals, and which had been should be represented, and those who most acted on by legislating in accordance with accurately represented the intelligence of it for many years. That Committee rethe country were not always those who ported on the best means of carrying on an represented its wealth. But if the views election, and among other sentiments there of those persons were correct, let them re- was this, Your Committee maintain the enact the property qualification; or let principle that a candidate should be elected them enact that no man should sit in that and sent to Parliament free of expense.' House unless he could spend £2,000 to It was admitted by no less an authority do so, or, as an hon. Friend suggested, than the Early of Derby that the Act of unless he had actually spent it. If hon. last Session would greatly increase the Members thought that a property qualifi- expense of elections an admission, incation was necessary, let them enact some-deed, which was made on all sides; and thing like that Those who thought a property qualification necessary would be perfectly consistent in doing so, but among those who thought it necessary there certainly would not be the Secretary of State for the Home Department, because he told them last Session that he had been during the whole or the greater part of his life opposed to a property qualification. [Mr. WALPOLE: No!] He had understood that it was so. He did not wish to misrepresent him; and he was quite sure that although he gave such cogent reasons why he had always entertained the view that property qualification was not necessary, he always found it his duty to vote in favour of it. The present Act made it absolutely necessary for a man who stood for a large borough or a county to have considerable funds available for the purposes of the election. It seemed to him a mockery to repeal the property qualification, and in the same Session to re-enact another pro

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the admission was a conclusive argument
against the Act. Entertaining the views
which he had detailed, he deemed it his
duty to propose a Bill to repeal the Act of
last Session, and inasmuch as he did not
think it desirable that the law should re-
main at all uncertain, he proposed to enact
that the payment of travelling expenses of
all kinds by candidates should be illegal,
and that the person doing so should be guilty
of bribery. It had been said that it might
be illegal for a candidate to take a voter to
the poll in his own carriage; but that would
be illegal under his Bill.
He also pro-
posed by his Bill to increase the power of
the Government to establish polling places
in counties and boroughs where necessary.
That seemed to him the only legitimate
way in which they could assist voters-by
providing polling places in situations con-
venient for them. He proposed to give
to the Government power of establishing
polling places wherever they thought pro-

per. This was the outline of the measure which he proposed to submit to the House; and in conclusion he would only say that he believed that the public were deeply interested in this question, for there had been scarcely a political meeting during the vacation at which hon. Members had not been taken to task about the matter by their constituents, and at which great disapprobation of the Act had not been expressed. It was complained that they had passed an Act which had a direct tendency to vest the possession of seats in that House in those who had property, and an indirect tendency to encourage bribery and corruption; and if that Act were allowed to remain on the Statute-book it would be very difficult to persuade the people that the House was earnest in its desire to open the House to all classes of the community and to maintain the purity of elections. The hon. Member concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to prohibit the payment of expenses of conveying Voters to the Poll, and to facilitate polling at Elections.

SIR WILLIAM FRASER said, the hon. and learned Member had informed the House that the measure of last year passed at a time when a considerable number of lawyers were absent in the discharge of their professional duties. He was not prepared to say whether that was an advantage or a disadvantage, but certainly there was no want of close reasoning on either side of the question, and if the hon. and learned Member had been in the House when this subject was discussed he would hardly have produced on this occasion arguments that had been refuted hundreds of times, and had been brought forward and repeated till the House was perfectly nauseated with them. He would not, therefore, follow the hon. and learned Gentleman in his arguments, but he would suggest, that as a Reform Bill was to be brought before them in a few days, it was hardly necessary, and would be premature, to discuss any part of the subject beforehand. The hon. Member for Birmingham and others were constantly telling them that it would be of the greatest advantage to the country that the labouring classes should have a voice in the election of Members of Parliament. Now, he (Sir W. Fraser) could not help thinking that it was a perfectly legitimate mode of enabling the poor man to exercise that privilege to convey him to the poll. It appeared to him something like mockery for a rich man

to go to a poor man and ask him to go and vote for him, and yet refuse to put his hand in his pocket to pay his expenses of going to the poll. He believed those classes would be led to take that view of the matter. There was one kind of sympathy and kindly feeling for others not uncommon, which had been described by the Rev. Sidney Smith, as A pitying B and earnestly wishing C would help him. That was about the character of the sentiment that generally came from the quarter of the House from which the hon. and learned Gentleman had spoken.

The Early last

MR. WALPOLE said, before the Bill of the hon. and learned Gentleman was introduced he wished to say a few words upon the immediate subject alluded to. The hon. and learned Gentleman seemed to think that the House had been taken by surprise when the Bill of last year was passed at the end of the Session. facts, however, were these. summer attention was called to the uncer tain and unsatisfactory state of the law in regard to the conveyance of voters to the poll, by an hon. and learned Gentleman sitting on the Opposition side of the House (Mr. Serjeant Deasy.) A decision given in the House of Lords was supposed to have left the question in a more uncertain state than before, and the Government were pressed from both sides of the House to introduce such a measure as would place the law on the subject upon a clear and intelligible footing. On referring to official records I find that the Bill was introduced early in June, and on the 2d July it was read a second time without a division. On the 16th July this question about the conveyance of voters was discussed, and a division was taken, when it appeared that the Ayes were 133, and the Noes only 58. Division after Division followed; and on the third reading, which took place on the 26th July, the tenth division on the Bill took place, when the third reading was carried by a majority of Ayes 93, against Noes 60. Now, he was anxious to remind the House of those facts, because, in saying that the House was taken by surprise, it appeared to him that the hon. and learned Gentleman was inclined to rely too much on the draughts of oblivion generally supposed to be quaffed during the recess. The hon. and learned Gentleman seemed to imagine that his Bill would have the effect of settling the question, which at all times was one of great difficulty to deal with; and to think that his measure, if

had a fair discussion, by all means let the question be fairly discussed upon his Bill. He was not one who thought that even the solution of the question last Session was satisfactory; but he did say that to lay down the law as it was now proposed would, he believed, induce a far worse state of things than to declare that the expenses attending the conveyance of the voters to the poll should be permitted where no corrupt influence had been exercised. He did not think that the hon. and learned Gentleman's solution of the difficulty was satisfactory. What he (Mr. Walpole) contended for was, that the law should be laid down plainly in the Statute-book one way or

carried, would prevent bribery and corrupt | sion at the present moment upon this topie. practices at elections. He (Mr. Walpole) If the hon. and learned Gentleman suphowever, thought the hon. and learned posed that the Act of last Session had not Gentleman would find, when he moved the second reading, that he had raised quite as difficult a question as the one he was attempting to settle. By the Bill he was about to bring in, he found fault with that provision of the last Act which declared that the bona fide expenses attending the conveyance of the voter to the poll might be paid for by the candidate, and he now proposed to repeal it; but he went further and said the very reverse of the Act of last Session, for he proposed to enact that the payment of any of the expenses of the conveyance of any voter to the poll was in future to be viewed as an act of bribery. He wished the hon. and learned Gentleman to consider whether he might not be run-other. He would beg to correct the hon. ning too fast in attempting to put down in the name of bribery an innocent instead of a guilty act. He (Mr. Walpole) would go as far as any man in his desire to put down everything that had a tendency to bribery or corruption; but the hon. and learned Gentleman must prove that the mere fact of simply paying the bona fide expenses of carrying a voter to the poll can have a corrupt influence upon the voter. But the hon. and learned Gentleman showed even by his own Bill that he had no faith in any such proposition, for he said, although he would not allow the conveyance of the voter to the poll to be paid for, he would nevertheless allow the candidate to convey the voter to the poll in his own carriage.

MR. COLLIER explained. He merely said, that taking your friend for a drive in a carriage during the day should not be considered as illegal. He did not speak of driving a voter to the poll.

MR. WALPOLE said, he would give the hon. and learned Gentleman full credit for his explanation; but he would find difficulties in his Bill quite as great as those he proposed to remove. The hon. and learned Gentleman's objection to the Act of last Session were, first, that it tended to a species of bribery, and, secondly, that it gave a rich man an advantage over a poor man. But, had not the man who had his own carriage an advantage over the man who had none? And how, if he could carry a voter to the poll in his own carriage, could he prevent his friends carrying other voters in theirs? Would it not equally be bribery in either case? He should have wished to have abstained from any discus

and learned Gentleman's statement of the law laid down upon this subject by the House of Lords last year. The highest tribunal of the land decided that it was not illegal to pay the expenses of conveying the voter to the poll; but that if a candidate gave a previous promise that he would pay the expenses of bringing a voter to the poll, and that promise was followed by the actual payment of those expenses, that act might have a corrupt influence on the voter's mind, and was therefore illegal. By the other portion of the hon. and learned Gentleman's Bill he proposed to facilitate the taking of the poll by allowing the Government to increase the number of polling places. Now, let the hon. and learned Gentleman consider well what he was doing. He was placing in the hands of the Government the power of saying what polling places should or should not be established. By the existing law they had guarded well against any impropriety in the selection of the polling places, inasmuch as no change of place or increase of number can be made except on the recommendation of the magistrates of the county-then only has the Executive Government the power to determine whether there should or should not be more polling places. Now he confessed he doubted the wisdom of transferring such a power from the magistrates to the Government. He should be glad to see the Bill introduced, and he hoped he should not be again told that a fair opportunity had not been given for the discussion of its provisions. He also hoped, when they came to the discussion, that they might be able to settle the question in a clear, sensible, and definite

manner; but the difficulties of the question | some three-fifths of the entire constituwere very great, and he believed the set- ency of the kingdom. Nor was that all. tlement proposed by the hon. and learned They must go a step further and prohibit Gentleman would make the matter worse canvassing, and the employment of paid than it was before. canvassers. It might or might not be expedient to establish more polling places, but nothing could be more objectionable than to leave the whole polling arrangements of the country in the hands of the Executive Government for the time being. The Bill, as it now stood, was crude and imperfect, but he would give every assistance to improve it.

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GENERAL THOMPSON wished to sift the question of morality propounded by the right hon. Gentleman opposite, by putting a case of his own. Suppose he were a candidate for Bradford, and a poorer man than himself were against him, might he not by the natural instinct of a candidate

MR. SERJEANT DEASY said, he could corroborate the statement that the attention of the House was called to this question early in the last Session. He had himself alluded to it; and he did also on account of the confusion into which the law had fallen. Committee after Committee of that House had decided that the payment of money to the voter for his traveling expenses, if bond fide, was perfectly legal; but the decision of the House of Lords in "Cooper v. Slade, reversing the judgment of the Exchequer Chamber, had since affirmed that the payment of a voter's travelling expenses in pursuance of a conditional promise previously made presuming the present legal arrangeconstituted bribery. It was his duty as Chairman of a Committee which had to consider the question, to call the Home Secretary's attention to the embarrassment in which candidates and their agents were placed by this decision; and it was therefore quite true, as the right hon. Gentleman had said, that the suggestion of the necessity of a remedy for this evil had emanated from that the Opposition side of the House. Whether the particular mode then adopted for supplying that remedy had been the right one was quite another question. The hon. and learned Member for Plymouth (Mr. Collier) seemed to underrate the difficulties resulting from his Motion. So far from his Bill facilitating the entrance of men of small means into that House, it would place the seats for the counties especially entirely in the hands of the great and wealthy, because it would leave it perfectly open for the landlords to bring their own tenants to the poll, while candi. dates who had not the support of the landlords, if they hired conveyances, would be exposed to all the penalties of bribery. As the right hon. Gentleman had said it would be most unwise to attach to an act, which everybody believed to be innocent, the stigma of corruption. It was to be hoped that all their constituents would profit by the hon. and learned Member's lecture as to the duties incident to the possession of the franchise that they would no longer be apathetic, or require to be canvassed or conveyed, but would rush to the poll to elect the men of their conscientious choice. The Bill, however, of the hon. and learned Gentleman would practically disfranchise

ments to be continued-send down some acute man to London, Edinburgh, Dublin, Manchester, and any other of the great emporia of manufactures and commerce, and tell him to find out how many Bradford men were there,-to go round to them and say, "Does any man want to settle a little business that he has left undone, and which he would be the better for doing at my expense, or does he want to go and kiss his cousins?" Nothing must be said about their voting for me; that should be left to their honour. A reputable man would not take his money, and do nothing for him in return. He would trust that to the agent, observing to him, "You know how to do things of this kind; do it well, and you shall be paid for your trouble." Would or would not all that, be gross bribery? What was bribery but the holding forth to a voter a pecuniary or other inducement to vote for a particular candidate? Some men looked for money, others looked for those pleasant exhibitions of family amity at which he had hinted. Every candidate who, by dint of his purse, gave this pleasure, whatever it might be, to the voter, with the result of having his vote in return, was within the whiff and wind of bribery. The importance of providing for the poor voters getting to the poll had been urged. His remedy for that was this,-turn all paupers ruthlessly out of the Reform Bill. If a man was not rich enough to carry himself to the poll, let them not make the candidate convey him. Let anybody pay for it except the candidate. The Bill of last Session passed, as the hon. Mover had stated, at rather an unfavourable period. It passed at the

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