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port upon the subjects on which they were a complete form. At the same time, he wished to report, and not on other sub- thought it was the general opinion that jects, then he thought all that his right some change should take place in the form hon. Friend desired would be granted. of these lucubrations. The Inspectors had He was rather inclined to think that would launched into subjects on which they need be done, but he did not clearly understand. not have treated, and treated them with He did not think it desirable that a Reso. an amplitude which was undesirable. He lution should be carried; but he hoped the had no doubt that after this discussion wish of his right hon. Friend would, with there would be a considerable improvement restrictions, be granted.
in the shape and materials of the Reports, THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE- and he therefore trusted the right hon. QUER said, he was clearly of opinion that, Gentleman would not press his Motion to as a general rule, that when Inspectors were a division, employed to make Reports those Reports MR. EWART said, that a suggestion should be published without alteration or had been thrown out that the Inspectors omission. But it had been found in prac-should be requested to digest their own Retice to lead to abuse, and a number of dis- ports. Now he could conceive nothing sertations and treaties had been furnished more absurd than to request an Inspector to to the office quite suitable for the Edin- digest his own Report. He trusted that burgh or Quarterly Review, but not ex. the Inspectors would be instructed to preactly of the businesslike character which pare these Reports in a practical and busimight be expected in such documents. ness-like manner, and that they would reHis right hon. Friend, who was responsible quire no subsequent digestion either on for the conduct of the office, thought it ex- their own part, or on the part of the Gopedient to take some steps in order, not vernment, and that they would be preonly that the information should be fur- sented without any expurgation. nished in a more condensed style, but also MR. WALPOLE said, he believed that that economical considerations, though ap- what had been done with respect to the parently of no great importance to some Minute was in exact conformity with the hon. Gentlemen, might not be entirely dis- suggestion of the noble Lord the Member regarded. He thought the Committee of for the City of London, and the noble Privy Council quite justified in wishing to Lord the Member for Tiverton. Instrucaccomplish that object, but he also thought tious had been given that the Reports were the right bon. Gentleman who lately pre- to be prepared under different heads, which sided over that department right in asking were specified, and when sent in they the House whether they would sanction a were neither to be digested by the Insystem which placed on the table, instead spectors nor abridged, por altered. The of the full Reports, what might be cod-only abridgment that would be made would sidered, not garbled, but perfect represen- arise from the Inspector deviating from his tations of the opinions of the Inspectors. instructions and reporting on irrelevant He thought all were agreed that, although matters. As there was no difference of it was convenient the Reports should be intention on either side of the House, he published in a complete state, it was also would suggest to the right hon. Gentleequally desirable that they should be con- man (Mr. Cowper) the propriety of waiting fined as much as possible to relevant sub- until the Reports should be printed ; and jects. He thought that, without asking then, if he was not satisfied, the Governthe House to come to a division, if there ment would be prepared to consider any were a clear understanding that the Go- suggestions which he, or any other hon. vernment would take the matter into their Member might think it desirable to offer. consideration, and endeavour to meet the ŞIR GEORGE GREY said, that the views of hon. Gentlemen opposite, so far practice of the Home Office, when Inspec. as to have the Reports of the Inspectors tors, as he knew they would do, branched placed before them in a perfect state, but into irrelevant matter, was to refer back at the same time to prevent their appear the Report to the Inspector, pointing it out, ing in a form which had attracted Dotice and he had generally found that the Inand disapprobation, all that was necessary spector at once expunged it.
The Report would be obtained by the discussion. He of the Inspector, revised by himself, was was sure his right hon. Friend understood then printed and presented to Parliament. the feeling of the House, that it was de- SIR ARTHUR TON denied that In. birable the Reports should be published in spectors were guilty of the redundancy, which had been attributed to them. He when the Reports were prepared according thought the Reports would be much more to instructions, not otherwise—and remein. valuable if the Inspectors were allowed the ber one of those instructions was that no same freedom as they had before the cir- Report should exceed 20 pages- then they cular was issued. It was treating the In- should be printed, he would be satisfied. spectors like children to lay down heads MR. A. MILLS said, he understood the under which they were to make observa. Government had agreed that these reports tions, and not to allow them to diverge in should be printed in extenso; but reservthe least from a given line. He would ing to the Government the power in cersubmit that it was better to change the tain cases of cutting out extraneous and Inspectors if no confidence could be placed irrelevant matter. The statements made in them. He spoke, he believed, the with regard to the tabulated Reports was unanimous feeling of all the Inspectors to his mind much more important. But when he expressed a hope that the tabulated even on this point the difference was so Reports would be distributed gratis among minute between the Government proposal the schools, as heretofore, or at all events of selling those printed reports at cost price to the extent of so much as related to and sending them gratis to certain parties, each district.
that he thought it was hardly a subject for MR. COWPER said, the difficulty with dispute. With regard to what had been him was to know exactly what right hon. said by the hon. Baronet the Member for Gentlemen opposite meant. The right bon. Bath (Sir A. Elton) he had not heard one the Vice President of the Council seemed word drop from the Government which 10 him to raise an entirely false issue. He could be construed into a slur upon the seemed to think that the object of this Inspectors. He had the honour of knowing Motion was to insist that everything which one or two of those gentlemen, who were the Inspectors chose to write ought to be most intelligent men, and if he had heard printed. No such thing. The question a slur thrown upon them he would have he raised was, whether the President of joined the hon. Baronet in resenting it. the Council was to be allowed to thrust He certainly understood that Government himself between the Inspectors and the intended to print the Reports of the InspecHouse of Commons, and to keep back the tors, though in this department, as in every Reports of the Inspectors, but to give the other, they claimed the right to exercise a House a mere digest of them. As he read control. the Minutes of Council upon this subject
MR. CROSSLEY said, a few years ago the Government proposed to use the Re- he sat on a Committee on the printing of ports of all the Inspectors, and to make of the House, when it certainly appeared to them one annual statement. [Mr. ADDERLEY: him that a great deal of money was un. Look at No. 8.] Well, he found that, ac- necessarily spent on that head -especially cording to No. 8 of the Minutes it was pro- in printing long Reports. He thought, posed to present, either in gremio, or therefore, the thanks of the House were in the appendix, the Reports of the In- due to the Government for thus endeavourspectors, at least in all essential points. ing to save the public money. At the That was the very thing he objected to— same time, he certainly agreed with the that the Committee of Council should de- right hon. Member for Hertford, in thinkcide what points were essential and what ing that the House ought to have the Re. were not. Such a system would be de. ports of the Inspectors themselves, and not structive of all confidence in the fidelity of merely digests of them, and wherever the the Reports, and it would disgust the In- Reports contained irrelevant matter, he spectors themselves, who, as men of educa- would suggest that the Government offi. tion, could not be well pleased to find their cials should run their pen through it and Reports cut up by the scissors, and printed send it back to the Inspectors for alteraunder different heads. What he wanted tion, so that it might be presented to the was to see the whole mind of the Inspectors House as the Report of the Inspector, not of in dealing with their districts during the the Government. As the matter stood at past year. If the right hon. Gentleman present, therefore, if the right hon. Genintended to adhere to his circular he must tleman pressed his Motion to a division press his Motion, because he thought the he must go with the Government. doctrines laid down in that circular were
MR. KINNAIRD said, the expense in opposed to right views in the case. But if this case hardly deserved the consideration the right hon. Gentleman would agree that of the House. They were now spending £600,000 a year in the work of education; / any one would ever undertake, to make £40,000 was spent in the system of in such a digest. He understood that what spection, and £2,000 was all that was he meant to do was exactly what the noble spent in making the results of this machi. Lord proposed. nery perfect.
MR. COWPER said, he wished to ask MR. AKROYD said, there seemed to be whether the right hon. Gentleman desired , some doubt as to the extent of the altera- to assume the power of altering or abridgtions proposed by the Government. He ing the Reports of the Inspectors ? [Mr. confessed that, if their object was to simply ADDERLEY : No.] Would he then give prune the excrescences of the Reports of the Reports as they were written, or in the Inspectors, he should be much inclined disjointed fragments ? to agree with them; but there was a well- MR. ADDERLEY: We shall give each grounded fear among the Inspectors them. Report as far as it comes under the six selves that something more was intended. heads, prescribed with the names of the InNothing could be more opposed to the feel-spectors attached to each, and each Report ings of the people of England on the so limited will be given in the ipsissimis subject of education than one Report derbis of the inspectors. made up from the Reports of all the In- VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: Sir, I rise spectors. Indeed, it was not possible to ask a question. Is it intended that and if it were, it would be most unad. the Report made by the Governinent visable-to give a systematic summary shall begin under one lead, and give a of their Reports. Those gentlemen them. portion of the Report of each of the Inselves represented different religious de-spectors relating to that head, so that we nominations, and their opinions were shall have the Report of each Inspector in adapted to the opinions of the different disjointed fragments; or do the Governreligious bodies; so that, if their Reports ment propose, what I think is the far prewere to be of any use at all, they ought ferable mode, that the Report of each Into be presented separately. He hoped spector shall be given whole under difthe Government would agree to the Mo- ferent heads, that the others shall follow in tion of the right hon. Member for Hertford. order, each repeating his own division of
MR. ADDERLEY said, he really heads, so that the continuity of each Inthought the House was about to divide spector's Report shall not be broken?
an issue which had no existence. MR. ADDERLEY: The last statement His object was exactly what the noble of the noble Lord is exactly what we inLords the Member for London and the tend, and, in fact, are now doing. Member for Tiverton had insisted on; MR. COWPER: Then I do not divide. and taking the words of the right hon. Motion, by leave, withdrawn. Gentleman's Motion as they and the right hon. Member for Ashton had explained them MASTERS AND OPERATIVES.-LEAVE. he would have no difficulty in voting for it. MR. MACKINNON said, he rose to move The Reports of the Inspectors would be for leave to introduce a Bill to establish prepared henceforth in accordance with equitable councils of conciliation and arbiinstructions, in which all the information tration to adjust differences between mas. they had to communicate was to be divided ters and operatives. It was not his inten. into six heads-number of schools inspected tion to occupy the time of the House with
-management-finance-premises -scho- any arguments in favour of his measure, as lars-efficiency of masters-methods of he believed that no opposition was to be instructions, and suggestions either as to offered to its introduction. He would, abuses that ought to be corrected, or im- therefore, reserve his remarks until the pruvements that might be made. If there discussion of the second reading, and he was anything in the Report which did not would content himself with remarking that, fall under one or other of those heads, he connected as he was with the mining and would send it back to the inspector for coal districts in Lancashire, especially in excision. Nobody on the part of the Go- the neighbourhood of Ulverstone and vernment had ever conceived such an ab- Bacup, he could state that the workmen surdity as a digest into one Report of the there were unanimous in favour of the various Reports of Wesleyan, Dissenting, measure, which they believed would go far Roman Catholic, and Church of England to prevent those strikes that had done so and of Scotland inspectors. Nobody bad much injury to that neighbourhood. ever proposed, nor did he couceive that
Bill to establish Equitable Councils of MR. WALPOLE said, there was no Conciliation and Arbitration to adjust dif- objection to the introduction of the Bill, ferences between Masters and Operatives, but the Government must see the maordered to be brought in by Mr. MacKIN- chinery of the Bill before they could exNON and Mr. SLANEY.
press an opinion.
Motion agreed to.
Bill to provide for taking Evidence in suits
and proceeding pending before Tribunals MR. YOUNG said, he rose to move for in Her Majesty's Dominions in places out leave to introduce a Bill to provide for of the jurisdiction of such Tribunal, ortaking evidence in suits and proceedings dered to be brought in by Mr. Young, pending before tribunals in Her Majesty's Lord ALFRED CHURCHILL, and Mr. Lowe. dominions in places out of the jurisdiction Bill presented and read 1°; to be read 2° of such tribunals. It was well known that on Friday, 4th March, and to be printed. when evidence was required in Great Britain in suits pending in the Colonies,
CONVEYANCE OF VOTERS. the form of getting it was by a Commission issued by the superior Courts of those Colo- MR. COLLIER moved for leave to innies to some persons residing in Great troduce a Bill to prohibit the payment of Britain ; witnesses then appeared before the expenses of conveying Voters to the the Commissioners, and the evidence was Poll, and to facilitate polling at elections. sent to the Colonies. That was all very Towards the close of the last Session, and well when everything went smoothly and when more than one-half of the Members the witness appeared ; but the evil that were absent-driven away, he believed, by required to be remedied was that the wit. the stench of the river-when all the comness might appear or refuse to appear at mon-law lawyers were on circuit-an Act his option, without assigning any reason. was passed, which he believed was one of the Last year a Bill had been passed making worst—and that was a bold word—one of the it compulsory upon British subjects to worst passed in modern times. It was an appear as witnesses before Commissions Act passed mainly for the purpose of getissued by foreign Courts ; but by some ting rid of the effect of a decision of the mistake Commissions issued by colonial House of Lords in the case of “ Cooper o. Courts were omitted in the Bill. The Slade," which he believed was sound in object of this measure was to remedy that law and wholesome in application. The defect, by making it obligatory upon wit- effect of the Bill of last Session was to nesses to appear upon the payment of their establish a new property qualification in expenses.
the room of the one abolished, and a far THE SOLICITOR GENERAL said, no more mischievous one, for the other was a doubt the object the hon. Member had in sham, while this was a reality. Had he view was an extremely desirable one if it been in the House when the Bill was could be attained ; and so far as our Colo- brought in he should certainly have opnies were concerned, he apprehended that posed the measure; and, as it was, he lost the end which the hon. and learned Gentle. no time in proposing to repeal it. He knew man had in view might be arrived at. But that he should be met by dilatory pleas. with respect to foreign countries, it was im- He should probably be told that the Act possible that any Bill passed in this House he asked to repeal was only a continuance should enforce the attendance of persons Act, which would expire in July next, and not subjects of Her Majesty as witnesses. he would probably be asked to postpone He had no objection, however, to the in- this matter until the dog days,” when no troduction of the Bill.
doubt the Government would produce some MR. AYRTON said, the hon. and learned comprehensive measure on the subject. Gentleman had somewhat misunderstood The Act of last Session was passed by a the scope of the Bill. The colonial Courts worn and jaded House, and he wished to often sent Commissions to this country take the opinion of the House when it was to examine witnesses, but they had no fresh. He did not believe that the Act of last power to enforce their attendance, so that Session represented the feelings of the Lia good deal of expense was often wasted. beral majority of that House; for it was the The Bill proposed, therefore, to give power fact, that although we had a Tory Governto Commissions sent from colonial Courts ment the majority of the House were Lito examine witnesses in this country. beral, and if the Government wished to
per. This was the outline of the measure to go to a poor man and ask him to go and which he proposed to submit to the House; vote for him, and yet refuse to put his and in conclusion he would only say that hand in his pocket to pay his expenses of he believed that the public were deeply in- going to the poll. He believed those terested in this question, for there had classes would be led to take that view of been scarcely a political meeting during the matter. There was one kind of symthe vacation at which hon. Members had pathy and kindly feeling for others not unnot been taken to task about the matter common, which had been described by the by their constituents, and at which great Rev. Sidney Smith, as A pitying B and disapprobation of the Act had not been earnestly wishing C would help him. That expressed. It was complained that they was about the character of the sentiment had passed an Act which had a direct that generally came from the quarter of tendency to vest the possession of seats in the House from which the hon. and learned that House in those who had property, and Gentleman had spoken. an indirect tendency to encourage bribery MR. WALPOLE said, before the Bill of and corruption ; and if that Act were the hon. and learned Gentleman was introallowed to remain on the Statute-book it duced he wished to say a few words upon would be very difficult to persuade the the immediate subject alluded to. The people that the House was earnest in its hon, and learned Gentleman seemed to desire to open the House to all classes of think that the House had been taken by the community and to maintain the purity surprise when the Bill of last year was of elections. The hon. Member concluded passed at the end of the Session. The by moving for leave to bring in a Bill to facts, however, were these. Early last prohibit the payment of expenses of convey- summer attention was called to the uncer. ing Voters to the Pull, and to facilitate tain and unsatisfactory state of the law in polling at Elections.
regard to the conveyance of voters to the Sir WILLIAM FRASER said, the poll, by an hon. and learned Gentleman hon, and learned Member had informed the sitting on the Opposition side of the House House that the measure of last year passed (Mr. Serjeant Deasy.) A decision given at a time when a considerable number of in the liouse of Lords was supposed to lawyers were absent in the discharge of have left the question in a more uncertain their professional duties. He was not pre- state than before, and the Government were pared to say whether that was an advan- pressed from both sides of the House to tage or a disadvantage, but certainly there introduce such a measure as would place was no want of close reasoning on either the law on the subject upon a clear and inside of the question, and if the hon. and telligible footing. On referring to official learned Member had been in the House records I find that the Bill was introduced when this subject was discussed he would early in June, and on the 20 July it was bardly have produced on this occasion argu- read a second time without a division. On ments that had been refuted hundreds of the 16th July this question about the contimes, and had been brought forward and veyance of voters was discussed, and a repeated till the House was perfectly division was taken, when it appeared that nauseated with them. He would not, the Ayes were 133, and the Noes only 58. therefore, follow the hon. and learned Gen- Division after Division followed ; and on tleman in his arguments, but he would the third reading, which took place on the suggest, that as a Reform Bill was to be | 26th July, the tenth division on the Bill took brought before them in a few days, it was place, when the third reading was carried hardly necessary, and would be premature, by a majority of Ayer 93, against Noes to discuss any part of the subject before- 60. Now, he was anxious to remind the band. The hon. Member for Birmingham House of those facts, because, in saying and others were constantly telling them that the House was taken by surprise, it that it would be of the greatest advantage appeared to him that the hon. and learned to the country that the labouring classes Gentleman was inclined to rely too much should have a voice in the election of Mem on the draughts of oblivion generally supbers of Parliament. Now, he (Sir W. posed to be quaffed during the recess. Fraser) could not help thinking that it was The hon. and learned Gentleman seemed a perfectly legitimate mode of enabling to imagine that his Bill would have the the poor man to exercise that privilege to effect of settling the question, which at all convey him to the poll. It appeared to times was one of great difficulty to deal bim something like mockery for a rich man with ; and to think that his measure, if