Abbildungen der Seite
PDF
EPUB

MR. BRADY said, he believed that the Bill would inflict a great injustice upon the occupiers of land in Ireland if the expense were to fall on them alone. He also ob

hands of the grand jury, believing that it would tend to bring them into collision with the people at large. They were, he admitted, generally speaking men of high character, but in many instances they had exhibited a very arbitrary disposition in the appointments they had made.

MR. MONSELL remarked that the only question of difference was, what should be the body who should nominate the governors of these asylums. He did not see, however, that that was a question which could be better discussed in a Committee upstairs than in the whole House, and he would suggest that a day should be set apart for the discussion after the assizes. He did think that those who contributed the funds should be represented in these boards.

the appointment of visitors, and with re- in an institution from which hope was gard to the Central Board, he (the noble altogether banished. Of course it was Lord) had adhered to all the most im- scarcely possible to introduce any meaportant recommendations of the Commis- sure into Parliament which might not sion. The Central Board was nothing be susceptible of improvement; and he more than the present inspectors under should be happy, in the progress of this another name. What he proposed to do Bill, to attend to any suggestions that was to define the duties of every person might be made, but he believed that it connected with these asylums, from the would be difficult to attain the objects highest to the lowest; and in order to en- which they all had in view, if the main prinforce the punctual performance of those ciples of the Bill which he had proposed duties, that there should be a constant were not steadily kept in view. system of inspection carried on under the supervision of Government. The Lord Lieutenant and the Government would be responsible for the proper inspection of these institutions, and the inspectors would re-jected to placing the proposed power in the port to Parliament. Under the new system he believed that not only would the management of the asylums be satisfactory, but that the attendance of the governors would be regular. This had been far from the case heretofore, seeing that, by the returns of 1856, out of 530 governors of lunatic asylums in Ireland, 276 never attended at all, the attendance of the remainder appears to be very irregular. The boards meet generally once a month, or twelve meetings in the year; and he found that out of 530 governors only eighteen attended twelve times in the year, and six of these gentlemen belonged to the Dublin asylum. Amongst other recommendations of the Commissioners, he had adopted the compulsory appointment of chaplains, the admission of paying-patients, and other matters, so that, with the exception of the two he had mentioned, he had carried out most of the recommendations of the Commissioners. With regard to the want of accommodation, he was perfectly aware that to carry this Bill into operation would occasion a considerable outlay of public money; but the powers which he took to provide increased accommodation actually existed at present, and for the future the works would be carried on under the direction of the local authorities. At the same time, he did not agree with the hon. Member for Clonmel (Mr. Bagwell), that it would be desirable to create separate establishments for what were called incurable lunatics. Many medical men were of opinion that there were few cases of mania which should be pronounced absolutely incurable, and that there were none in which the symptoms might not be mitigated. To place these unhappy persons in an asylum of incurables would, he feared, lead to cruelty and mal-treatment, and would place them

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn :Bill committed for Monday, 7th March.

LOCAL ASSESSMENT EXEMPTION
ABOLITION.

LEAVE. FIRST READING.

MR. SOTHERON-ESTCOURT said, that he rose to move for leave to introduce a Bill to abolish general exemptions from local assessments. The Bill was founded upon the recommendation of the Select Committee appointed last year, and the grievance which it sought to remedy was obvious. In many places a large number of buildings had been erected which did not contribute towards parochial rating. The exceptions consisted of three classes; the first, being based upon the prerogative of the Crown, the second upon statutes, and the third upon non-beneficial occupation. He did not propose in any way to interfere with the first exemption; nor was any such interference recommended by the Select

Committee. He should maintain the exemption of churches and other places of public worship, burial grounds, turnpike tolls and highways, Royal parks, and Palaces under the management of the Board of Works; in addition to which there would be a clause in the Bill enacting that none of its provisions should apply to exemptions contained in any private or local Act of Parliament. Much the largest class of exemptions comprised those which came under the head of non-beneficial occupations. All buildings, such as those which were held by the Admiralty, the War Office, the Woods and Forests, and the Office of Works, were included under this head, not because they were the property of Her Majesty, but because they were not held by any person who could be said to have a beneficial occupation of them. He proposed, therefore, to abolish | this kind of exemption, inasmuch as it was found to press with undue hardship upon many towns in which Government works were situated. The House would probably be astonished at hearing that the value of the property of that description amounted to above £2,000,000; though what the annual assessment might be would depend upon the difference of rating in various places. He thought, however, it was but fair to say that he estimated the annual loss to the public revenue at £250,000, taking the average assessment at 2s. 6d. in the pound. But although they must expect that additional burden to be thrown on the income of the country the different localities might fairly say that they had, up to the present time, been bearing a charge which ought to have been thrown upon the nation at large. The opinion of the Committee was unanimous on the subject and he was convinced that the Bill was conformable to the true principles of rating, and he therefore hoped it would receive favourable attention and be allowed to pass into a law.

MR. WILSON expressed his obligations to the right hon. Gentleman for introducing the Bill, which included, as he understood. the whole of the recommendations of the Select Committee upon the subject. The right hon. Gentleman had adverted to the charge which the proposed alteration would place upon the nation; but if it were a considerable charge to the nation how much more grievous must that charge have been felt by particular localities? It must be remembered, however, that, after all, it was not an additional charge upon the VOL. CLII. [THIRD SERIES]

country, but a mere equitable distribution of the existing charge.

MR. JOHN LOCKE said, that the observations of the right hon. Gentleman appeared to have been directed more particularly to Government establishments. He wished to know if he intended to carry out the recommendations of the Committee with respect to the rating of museums, hospitals, and other public buildings, to which he had not alluded in his speech proposing the Bill?

MR. COX said, he also wished to inquire whether the right hon. Gentleman proposed making the buildings comprised in the term " non-beneficial occupations" liable to all parochial rates, or to the poor rates alone?

MR. J. D. FITZGERALD said, he wished to ask if the Bill extended to Ireland?

[ocr errors]

MR. SOTHERON-ESTCOURT said, that the word rate in the Bill was, by the interpretation clause, to be construed as meaning every local rate and assessment. Every rate, therefore, would be included in this Bill. It was also intended to comprehend all that class of public buildings and institutions alluded to by the hon. Member for Southwark (Mr. John Locke). It exactly followed the recommendations of the Committee, and would extend to Ireland.

GENERAL CODRINGTON said, he felt much satisfaction in agreeing with the introduction of this Bill.

SIR F. SMITH said, he also fully concurred in the principle of the Bill. Motion agreed to.

Bill to abolish General Exemption from Local Rates (Queen's Recommendation signified), ordered to be brought in by Mr. SOTHERON-ESTCOURT and Sir STAFFORD NORTHCOTE.

Bill presented, and read 1°.

POOR LAW BOARDS.-PAYMENT OF

DEBTS.

LEAVE. FIRST READING.

MR. SOTHERON-ESTCOURT said, he now rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill to provide for the Payment of Debts incurred by the Boards of Guardians in unions and parishes, and by Boards of Management in school districts. The Bill was rendered necessary by a decision of the Court of Exchequer, which prevented Boards of Guardians from paying debts. The consequence of that decision had been that they had been obliged to

deal with ready money, from which some inconvenience had arisen. The Bill would empower Boards of Guardians in future to pay legally incurred debts within twelve months, and in certain cases the period might be extended to six months more. With regard to debts incurred before the passing of the Bill, they would be allowed to pay them if incurred within a period of six years; and he might state that it would be applicable to debts incurred by the City of London union, referred to a few evenings ago in the House. Motion agreed to.

Bill to provide for the Payment of Debts incurred by Boards of Guardians in unions of parishes, and by Boards of Management in school districts, ordered to be brought in by Mr. SOTHERON-ESTCOURT and Mr. KNIGHT.

Bill presented, and read 1o.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

It would be seen, by reference to the pamphlet published by Mr. Rowland Hill, that in his original proposal it was intended, not merely that there should be an absolute refusal to deliver unpaid letters, but also those that were insufficiently paid. The fact, however, that this part of the plan had never before been acted upon, led him to imagine that the several Postmasters General, who had held office since that time, had some good reasons for not following it, or probably that Mr. Rowland Hill himself had, in this respect, altered his opinion. It had been said that the new rule was established to prevent Valentines and annoying letters from being posted unpaid; but this sounded very much like a joke. No doubt some people were pestered by receiving unpaid Valentines, but the annoyance of these few persons was not to be compared with the inconvenience susHouse adjourned at One o'clock. tained by the public at large from the new Post Office regulation. It had also been said that the colonial postage must, in many cases, be prepaid, and that as no inconvenience had been suffered from this rule there was no reason why the same rule should not also be applied to inland letters. Now, he was himself responsible for the principle as applied to colonial postage. The accounts between the colonial postoffices and the General Post Office were extremely inconvenient, and it was desirable that each country should keep its own share of the postage. There was, however, an important difference between letters abroad and those at home. Foreign and colonial letters were not written in a hurry, and correspondents knew the period when they must write. But the writers of inland letters were frequently compelled to write at a moment's notice, and these letters might refer to matters of life or death, or to affairs of the last commercial importance. Not being able to see what advantage was gained by the new rule that could countervail the great inconvenience to the public, he thought the change highly inexpedient. That very day he had been told by a medical friend, that two days ago three letters of importance passing between him and his patients were opened and returned to the writers. He had no doubt that the Post Office clerks were much too busy to read these letters, but their Lordships would see the unpleasantness of such occurrences:

Tuesday, February 22, 1859.

COMPULSORY PREPAYMENT OF INLAND

LETTERS.

THE DUKE OF ARGYLL said, that before proceeding with the business on the Paper, he wished to call the attention of the noble Lord the Postmaster General to the recent regulation rendering compulsory the prepayment of inland letters. It was only an act of justice to the officers of the Post Office, and especially to Mr. Rowland Hill, to say that he knew of no department of the public service, the duties of which were more efficiently discharged, and that the new arrangement had not been adopted without mature consideration, yet he could not help regarding the change now adopted as being in the highest degree inexpedient. There had been no loss to the revenue from letters hitherto posted unpaid. On the contrary, there had been some small gain to the revenue from the double charge made for them. It had been said in another place that, although there was a double charge, it fell not upon the man who committed the fault, but upon the person to whom the letter was sent. This, however, was a matter between correspondents, and might safely be left to be arranged between them.

LORD COLCHESTER said, he was glad to have an opportunity of removing some wrong impressions that prevailed on this

EARL GRANVILLE remarked, that he did not think his noble Friend the Postmaster General had answered in a very satisfactory manner the question of the noble Duke. There was no reason why letters containing property should not be prepaid; but with regard to letters generally the option should be left with the writer. It had been sail that the change was made for the benefit of the public, but, so far as he could gather, it seemed only to have been made for the convenience of the Post Office. There could be no doubt that it would cause very great inconveni

subject. He had been told that what had been done was illegal, and that there was an Act of Parliament which made it a punishable offence to detain a letter. It would, however, be found that by the Act 10 & 11 Vict. the Postmaster General, with the consent of the Treasury, was authorized to refuse to forward letters that were not prepaid. This power is now exercised as to all letters above a certain weight; to all registered letters, and to all late letters, that is, letters posted within half-an-hour of the dispatch of the mail. Also to all letters to the East Indies, to the West Indies, and to the South Ame-ence to the public. He had conversed with rican States; it is proposed to extend it to all inland letters. By this means the money accounts of the Post Office will be simplified, and the deliveries of letters by the postmen accelerated. The public will be released from much annoyance, for it should be borne in mind that circulars of various kinds, foreign documents, and valentines were sent unpaid through the Post Office to a very great extent, and thus great inconvenience was caused to the public, and much trouble and delay to the Post Office officials. This was so well understood that many people had given orders that unpaid letters should not be sent to them, in consequence of the annoyance to which they were exposed, and thus occasionally letters of importance were refused. He had caused a search to be made for any opinions that might have been formed by former Postmasters General on this subject, but had not been able to find any having reference to the inconvenience of the system now proposed. It is enforced in the United States of North America, and in most of our Australian Colonies who manage their own post-offices. All new arrangements caused some inconvenience and trouble at first, but he had no doubt that in time the system now introduced would be found to work well, and that no real inconvenience would accrue to the public.

THE DUKE OF RICHMOND said, it was no doubt a matter of great importance to save trouble and expense to the Post Office, but he must say he thought with the noble Duke that the change which had been made was open to serious objection. He thought the less letters were opened and returned to the writers the better, and he should very much prefer that those which were unpaid should be charged additional postage on delivery. He hoped his noble Friend would reconsider the question.

a great many persons on the subject, and he did not think he had met a single person who approved of the change. He had no doubt that the feeling of disapprobation prevailed very strongly among the middle classes, and still more so among the working classes. In some places it was an absolute impossibility to find a penny stamp on Sundays, and consequently many instances might cccur in which letters could not be posted. [Lord COLCHESTER: The Post offices are open for a certain number of hours on Sunday.] He had certainly seen it stated that applications had been made for stamps on Sunday, and that they could not be obtained. He had merely taken the opportunity of expressing his concurrence in the views laid down by the noble Duke on the subject, in order to show that it was the general wish of the House that the noble Lord would reconsider the question.

LORD CAMPBELL said, that so far as he was personally concerned, he should be glad if the present arrangement were to remain in force, because he received a great number of letters, anonymous and otherwise, not paid, and they gave him no small annoyance. He continually received letters from suitors in the Court of Queen's Bench, and from all kinds of persons, and they were very seldom indeed paid. All writs issued by the Court of Queen's Bench were in the name of John Lord Campbell and in the form of a letter, and as he was supposed to be the writer of these letters he was continually receiving answers to them. So far as he was concerned personally, therefore, he ought to be satisfied with the change; but on public grounds he felt himself compelled to join in the recommendation of the noble Duke, that the new order should be rescinded, and the former arrangement restored.

THE GALWAY ROUTE TO AMERICA.

QUESTION.

LORD STANLEY OF ALDERLEY, after stating that this noble Friend Lord Clanricarde had given notice of the following Motion :

"To move for a copy of the contract entered into last summer by her Majesty's Government with Mr. Cunard for the conveyance of mails to and from the Continent of America, and copies of all previous contracts entered into by her Majety's Government for a similar object from the year 1839 inclusive; copies of any communication from the Admiralty or Post Office departments to the Treasury relating to those contracts; also, copies of any tenders for the conveyance of mails to any part of America from an Irish port, received within the last two months by Her Majesty's Government; and of any letters or memorials from individuals or from public bodies in support of such

"

tender, or in favour of the despatch of American mails from any port in Ireland; and also, a copy of the Report made by the Commissioners lately in structed to examine the capabilities and requirements of the port and harbour of Galway inquired whether any contract for the conveyance of the American mails viâ Galway had been entered into ?

THE EARL OF DERBY replied that Her Majesty's Government had not at present entered into any definitive contract for making Galway the port of departure for the mails. A proposition, however, had been submitted to the Treasury by one of the Atlantic steam companies for a regular fortnightly service from Galway to some port in North America. That proposition was under consideration upon the terms submitted by the company; but the Lords of the Treasury had, of course, reserved to themselves the power, before any arrange ment was concluded, of making the fullest inquiry as to the extent of the benefits to be obtained from such communication, and the solvency of the company. Security would also be required for the carrying out of the conditions of the contract in the adequate manner in which it was now performed by the Cunard Company.

England, as regarded both the enjoyment and the transmission of real property. A man might appoint portions for his children and a jointure for his wife; he might divide his estates among his family; he might so settle his property as that it should go to the whole of his issue while his issue should endure. No man could set such a settlement aside, and nothing was better underOnce stood than the right to make it. strike at the authority of the settlements of their Lordships' estates, and a fatal blow would be dealt at the House itself. One great object of the law of England in allowing great latitude in the disposition of property was that it should be kept in the family. The law of primogeniture was not a thing forced on the people of England, but it effectuated their intention where they left the law to operate. This is proved by their actual dispositions. What man ever left his real estate amongst all his children? The eldest son is in general selected, just as the law provides for him in case of an intestacy. If a law abolishing primogeniture had passed a century ago, their Lordships would not not now be here with the wealth and power which properly belong to them. Any pretence of only providing for cases where the owner himself is silent is the common plan of getting in the thin end of the wedge and then the rest follows. There was this excellency of the law of England, both as regarded real and personal estates, that it provided a devolution of both real and personal estate which accords with the habits and

THE SALE AND PURCHASE OF LAND. LORD ST. LEONARDS, pursuant to notice, proceeded to draw the attention of the House to the Report of 1857 of the Commissioners on Registration of Title with reference to the Sale and Purchase of Land. It seemed desirable, he said, first to know how the matter now stood. Perhaps there was no other country in the world whose law of property was at once so liberal, so large, and yet so circumscribed by the law itself, as the law of

wishes of the people. He hoped never to see the day when any blow would be struck at settlements as they now stood. A great many attempts had been made, and very properly made, to facilitate the sale of land and to simplify titles; a Bill which he had introduced with those objects was now in the other House of Parliament, and if passed it would save tens of thousands a year to the landed interest. He had last Session offered to their Lordships a Bill for shortening abstracts of title and shortening the time of limitation as a bar to outstanding or unknown claims as against a purchaser which he believed would have saved the landed interest £200,000 a year, and, he asserted emphatically, would really have damaged no one; but the House would not shorten the time of limitation, and rejected the measure. Whatever plan might be adopted for the purpose of simplifying titles, it should always be borne in mind that a man must make out a title, and a

« ZurückWeiter »