{LORDS} Her Majesty's Speech.

36

Before I proceed to the more impor-
tant topics which have been referred to,
I will just allude for a moment to the
criticisms of my noble Friend upon
the subject rather of matters which are
omitted from the Speech than of anything
which is contained in that Speech, and I
will endeavour, as shortly as possible, to
give an answer which, I trust, will be found
satisfactory to the noble Earl.
events, I will speak with perfect frank-
At all
ness, for I can assure your Lordships
that neither my colleagues nor myself have
aught to conceal.

us upon all points. At all times the weight | the general state of the country, both as of public opinion in England must exercise to the condition of the people and the a great and deserved and salutary influence abundance of employment, as well as the on Europe, and there never was a time diminution of crime and pauperism, which when that combined public opinion could in both cases are most striking, there is operate with greater force and greater much cause for congratulation. And as power than at this particular period at to one very important indication of the which I address the House, the critical prosperity of the humbler classes, I may period in which we now are. place in the course of the year in the refer to the vast increase that has taken amount of deposits throughout the country. I have the doin savings' banks cuments by me, but I will not at the present moment trouble the House with them, and will only state, that in every week during the last quarter the amount of pauperism in this country has been considerably below not only the pauperism of but also below the corresponding periods last year, which was an exceptional one, of 1857; and, moreover, so equally was that improvement spread over the whole December, in ali the ten or twelve discountry, that from the accounts taken last tricts into which England is divided for the purposes of the poor law, there was not one district in which the amount of pauperism was not below both the amount in 1858 and that in 1857. the savings' banks I will only state what I With respect to recollect of the figures-that whereas in the last year, from the beginning or middle of December to the middle of January, there was an excess of withdrawals over deposits to the extent of £600,000; in the course of the present year there has, on the contrary, been an excess of deposits over withdrawals, amounting to about £500,000. In point of fact, upon balancing the accounts of the savings banks in the two years there appears a difference in favour of their present state of £1,100,000 as compared with the preceding year.

My noble Friend, in alluding to the ab-
sence of certain topics both in the Speech
and in the Address said, that judging from
his own experience, he concluded that I
had given advice to my noble Friends
carefully to avoid those particular questions
to which he has adverted. I can assure
my noble Friend that I gave them no such
advice. I did give my noble Friends such
information as they desired upon the topics
which are dealt with in the Speech, and I
presumed that, according to the usual
custom, my noble Friends would have for
the most part addressed themselves to the
topics which are treated of in that docu-
ment. If there was any divergence from
that usual course, it would naturally be
expected to arise from the anxiety of my
noble Friend who seconded the Address to
take the earliest opportunity of bringing
before Parliament the exceptional case of
that great interest with which he is so
closely connected. My Lords, I do not
mean to deny that that interest at the pre-
sent moment is not in a state of consider-
able, but I hope only temporary depression.
Into the causes of that depression I am
sure your Lordships will feel that I ought
not at the present moment to enter.
think those causes are various; but,
in alluding generally to the prosperous
condition of the country, I did not mean
to convey an opinion that there were not
now, as there are at all times, certain inte-
rests which are in a less prosperous con-
dition than is desirable. What I wished
to convey was this-that with regard to
The Earl of Derby

I

noble Friend opposite complained, as not Now, the principal matter of which my being noticed in the Speech, is the case of the Charles et Georges. reasons for that omission are obvious. My Lords, the the first place, so many subjects are treatIn ed of in the Speech, that it is more than ordinarily lengthy, and it was not deemed desirable to encumber it with any matters which it was not absolutely necessary to introduce. The affair of the Charles et Georges, however, is one upon which the Government will not hesitate to give the House the fullest information in its power, and I am quite sure that when the papers satisfied that in no respect whatever have are before your Lordships, you will be

Before I proceed to the more important topics which have been referred to, I will just allude for a moment to the criticisms of my noble Friend upon the subject rather of matters which are omitted from the Speech than of anything which is contained in that Speech, and I will endeavour, as shortly as possible, to give an answer which, I trust, will be found satisfactory to the noble Earl. At all events, I will speak with perfect frankness, for I can assure your Lordships that neither my colleagues nor myself have aught to conceal.

us upon all points. At all times the weight | the general state of the country, both as of public opinion in England must exercise to the condition of the people and the a great and deserved and salutary influence abundance of employment, as well as the on Europe, and there never was a time diminution of crime and pauperism, which when that combined public opinion could in both cases are most striking, there is operate with greater force and greater much cause for congratulation. And as power than at this particular period at to one very important indication of the which I address the House, the critical prosperity of the humbler classes, I may period in which we now are. refer to the vast increase that has taken place in the course of the year in the amount of deposits in savings' banks throughout the country. I have the documents by me, but I will not at the present moment trouble the House with them, and will only state, that in every week during the last quarter the amount of pauperism in this country has been considerably below not only the pauperism of last year, which was an exceptional one, but also below the corresponding periods of 1857; and, moreover, so equally was that improvement spread over the whole country, that from the accounts taken last December, in all the ten or twelve districts into which England is divided for the purposes of the poor law, there was not one district in which the amount of pauperism was not below both the amount in 1858 and that in 1857. With respect to the savings' banks I will only state what I recollect of the figures-that whereas in the last year, from the beginning or middle of December to the middle of January, there was an excess of withdrawals over deposits to the extent of £600,000; in the course of the present year there has, on the contrary, been an excess of deposits over withdrawals, amounting to about £500,000. In point of fact, upon balancing the accounts of the savings banks in the two years there appears a difference in favour of their present state of £1,100,000 as compared with the preceding year.

My noble Friend, in alluding to the absence of certain topics both in the Speech and in the Address said, that judging from his own experience, he concluded that I had given advice to my noble Friends carefully to avoid those particular questions to which he has adverted. I can assure my noble Friend that I gave them no such advice. I did give my noble Friends such information as they desired upon the topics which are dealt with in the Speech, and I presumed that, according to the usual custom, my noble Friends would have for the most part addressed themselves to the topics which are treated of in that document. If there was any divergence from that usual course, it would naturally be expected to arise from the anxiety of my noble Friend who seconded the Address to take the earliest opportunity of bringing before Parliament the exceptional case of that great interest with which he is so closely connected. My Lords, I do not mean to deny that that interest at the present moment is not in a state of considerable, but I hope only temporary depression. Into the causes of that depression I am sure your Lordships will feel that I ought not at the present moment to enter. I think those causes are various; but, in alluding generally to the prosperous condition of the country, I did not mean to convey an opinion that there were not now, as there are at all times, certain inte. rests which are in a less prosperous condition than is desirable. What I wished to convey was this that with regard to

Now, the principal matter of which my noble Friend opposite complained, as not being noticed in the Speech, is the case of the Charles et Georges. My Lords, the reasons for that omission are obvious. In the first place, so many subjects are treated of in the Speech, that it is more than ordinarily lengthy, and it was not deemed desirable to encumber it with any matters which it was not absolutely necessary to introduce. The affair of the Charles et Georges, however, is one upon which the Government will not hesitate to give the House the fullest information in its power, and I am quite sure that when the papers are before your Lordships, you will be satisfied that in no respect whatever have

into the other, they immediately gave orders to put a stop to the exportation of negroes from the East Coast of Africa, where the greatest difficulties prevailed; and now arrangements are pending, with a prospect of speedy termination, by which the French Government intend to put a complete stop to negro emigration from either coast of Africa, and, moreover, to give us cordially and readily a more active co-operation for the suppression of the slave trade. I will not, however, enter further into the question at present, though I shall be quite ready to discuss it when the papers are laid on the table.

Her Majesty's Government fallen short of the requirements of the Treaty of Paris, nor of the obligations which treaties or our long-standing friendship with Portugal imposes. But the non-introduction of such a subject into the Royal Speech is easily to be accounted for. It is not customary to introduce into the Speech questions which may have arisen between two Foreign Powers with which the British Government is not directly concerned. Upon this occasion the discussion was between France and Portugal, upon a matter as to which full information was not before Her Majesty's Government, and thus it would have been impossible for them to form any With respect to the case of the Ionian accurate opinion; but they adopted the Islands, it is impossible for me at the precourse which I believe was suggested by sent moment to enter upon a full discussion my noble Friend opposite, that of offering of the steps that have been taken in that to both parties their best advice and matter. Within a very short time the very friendly offices. Unfortunately, however, distinguished Gentleman who has underneither party accepted the advice so ten- taken a temporary mission to those islands dered, the one declining it upon one point, will return to this country, and be enabled and the other upon a different point; but to give his own version and his own explawe have not the less received an assurance nation of the duties he has had to perform, from Portugal of satisfaction and gratitude and the manner in which he has performed for those friendly offices which were ten- them. But what I would wish to state to dered before they were asked for. No your Lordships is the original reason why doubt, in the affair of the Charles et Mr. Gladstone consented to go out, and Georges, there were circumstances which afterwards to act as Lord High Commisenlisted in favour of Portugal the sympa- sioner to the Ionian Islands. The statethies of this country, because it appeared ment reached us from all sides, and the as though Portugal were suffering unjustly fact had become notorious, that from vafor attempting to put a stop to proceedings rious causes the Government in those which it regarded as a revival of the slave islands had come to a dead lock, and that trade. I will not now enter upon the dis- for several years it had been impossible for cussion of that question, but I will say that the Government and the representatives of we never for a moment varied our opinion, the Ionian people to carry on satisfactorily or in the expression of that opinion, week together the legislation of the country; after week to the French Government, and, in fact, the Government was carried that it was impossible to separate the so- on in a most exceptional manner by a syscalled free emigration sanctioned by them tem of fiction-by perpetual prorogations from the commission of acts of the slave of the popular branch of the Ionian Letrade in the interior of Africa, even if no gislature. Mr. Gladstone, my Lords, was irregularities were committed by their own appointed Lord High Commissioner Extraofficers. While we have never ceased to ordinary to the Ionian Islands for the purpress that view as strongly as had been pose of satisfying himself, by means of perdone by the noble Lord opposite (the sonal investigation upon the spot, as to the Earl of Clarendon), who lately filled the real causes which stood in the way of the office of Secretary for Foreign Affairs, I prosperity and well-being of that portion of believe no recommendation, no circum-the dominions under Her Majesty's control. stance could have brought the matter so home to the convictions of the French Government as the facts elicited by the inquiry into this very case of the Charles et Georges, and it is creditable to the French Government that as soon as their own experience satisfied them of the immense difficulty, if not impossibility, of preventing one system from degenerating

He accepted that mission, which we considered his high position, his powerful abilities, his great authority, the interest which he had always taken in Grecian affairs, and his conciliatory manners rendered him peculiarly well qualified to undertake. Your Lordships must at the same time bear in mind that he undertook this duty simply as a mission of inquiry, with

out the slightest intention of superseding | ings adopted of late towards this country the Gentleman who then filled the office of by the Emperor of Russia, that the expresLord High Commissioner of the islands in sions of satisfaction to be found in Her Maquestion. Circumstances, however, with jesty's Speech at the re-establishment of which your Lordships are doubtless aware, friendly relations with that Sovereign are immediately afterwards transpired, for to be attributed. I make this statement, which Her Majesty's Government can be my Lords, because I think it is due to the held in no way responsible, which rendered Emperor of Russia that I should bear testiit absolutely impossible that any improve- mony to the fact that even before the signaments in the position of the Ionian Islands, ture of the treaty, British subjects having or any reforms in the administration of been previously placed in a more unfavourtheir affairs, could be introduced by Sir able position than the subjects of other naJohn Young with any chance of their tions, His Imperial Majesty voluntarily being accepted. We therefore thought it conceded to them all those advantages from desirable that Mr. Gladstone should, for a which they had so long been exclusively deshort period longer, continue to lend his barred. Nor can I, my Lords, pass over services to the country, and that he should the subject of treaties without adverting to himself be the means of recommending to those which have been concluded with the Senate and people of the Ionian Islands China and Japan, and without at the same those alterations and amendments which he time expressing my high admiration of the might deem it expedient to submit to their conciliatory, but, at the same time firm notice. He consented to undertake that and determined course, which Lord Elgin task for a short time at considerable in- has pursued in the difficult position in which convenience to himself, and to launch he was placed. I derive, my Lords, inthe reforms to which I have alluded creased satisfaction from the success which with all the authority and advantage which must be the result of the intimate knowledge which he has obtained of all the circumstances and bearings of the case. Mr. Gladstone's appointment will in the course of a few days be brought to a close; he will be replaced by a permanent successor, and when he resumes his seat in the House of Commons-to which he will, I trust, be shortly restored-he will, I have no doubt, be able to satisfy your Lordships and the country as to the wisdom of the policy which has been adopted by the Government, and also to furnish such explanations with respect to the present state of the Ionian Islands as he may deem to be consistent with his duty to afford.

If, my Lords, I refrain from touching on many of the other topics which are mentioned in the speech from the Thronesuch, for instance, as that which relates to internal legislation, or that which has reference to the treaties which have recently been concluded with foreign Powers-it is not because I am not fully alive to their importance, or to the greatness of the results to which they may lead, but because future occasions will arise on which those subjects can be more conveniently discussed. I may, however, in passing, be permitted to say, with respect to the treaty which has been concluded with Russia, and to which my noble Friend who has just spoken has adverted, that it is not only to the treaty itself, but to the whole course of proceed

has attended the efforts of that noble Earl, and the zeal and ability which he has displayed, from the circumstance that-although he was appointed to his present position by my predecessors in office-I was one of the first to introduce him into public life as successor to Lord Metcalfe in Jamaica, and subsequently in the Government of Canada.

EARL GREY: I beg the noble Earl's pardon. I made that appointment when I was at the head of the Colonial Office. Lord Elgin had previously been Governor of Jamaica, and he was not appointed Governor of Canada until some time after, when I was Secretary of State for the Colonies.

The EARL OF DERBY: I think the noble Earl is under some little mistake.

EARL GREY: Not at all: Lord Elgin had resigned the governorship of Jamaica, and there is no question he was not appointed Governor of Canada until some time after.

The EARL OF DERBY: I can assure the noble Earl that I have no wish to deprive him of any credit which might accrue to him from having appointed Lord Elgin to the governorship of Canada. It is quite true Lord Elgin did not succeed Lord Metcalfe in that office until the noble Earl became Secretary of State for the Colonies, but it was well known previously that Lord Metcalfe would be obliged to resign office in consequence of the state of his health,