COLONEL FRENCH said, that many years ago a Bill was introduced for the purpose of abolishing these courts, but it was afterwards abandoned. Although he felt bound to congratulate the right hon. and learned Gentleman upon his so early commencing the Irish business, yet he did not see that there was now any greater reason for introducing such a Bill than had existed for many years. Indeed, there was less reason, seeing that they possessed Quarter Sessions Courts and County Courts. He wished to know if the right hon. and learned Gentleman meant to provide compensation for the present Manor Court Judges, some of whom had held their offices for many years. abatement. They were now rendered, land. In ancient times, judgments did totally unnecessary by the existence of not affect land. In the time of Edward I. the County Courts. He proposed to abolish the statute of elegit was passed, which the Manor Courts throughout the entire created judgments into a kind of hovering country, more especially as under the lien on all property; and though a man County Court Act the Lord Lieutenant might sell part of his land, yet any judg and the Privy Council had power, when ments existing against him still hovered ever a case was made out for such a pro- over the land. In the time of George II., ceeding, to create new circuits for the judgments in Ireland were made assignable Judges of those courts. The Bill proposed by law. The result was, that when a landto give to magistrates in petty sessions a owner wanted to borrow money, which he small debt jurisdiction to the extent of often did in those days, he sent for a 20s., with an appeal from their decision to stamped deed, on the other side of which a County Court Judge. The hon. and was endorsed a warrant to confess judglearned gentleman concluded by moving ment, which judgment was capable of being for leave to bring in the Bill. assigned, so that if it fell into the hands of a country attorney, he assigned it to a friend, who brought it into the Court of Chancery, where ruinous costs accumulated directly, leaving the debtor no alternative but to borrow a fresh sum of money on a fresh judgment. After this, a fictitious process was adopted, by which the lands came into the hands of what was called a custodian. In 1835, Sir Michael O'Loghlen endeavoured to provide a remedy for this state of things, which proved a greater evil than the one it sought to remedyfor he gave power to creditors, instead of taking a moiety of the rents and profits of an estate, as was the case under an elegit, to appoint a receiver over the whole. The result was, that the country was covered with receivers, and greater evils were produced than those which were sought to be remedied. The next Act was called Pigot's Act, being the 3rd and 4th Vict., which was also a step in the wrong direction, for it extended the lien to chattel interests, leaseholds, and terms for lives, over which receivers were appointed, and the complication was consequently greatly increased. The result was, that in 1849, a Committee of the House was appointed to consider the evils of the receiver system in Ireland, and an excellent Committee it was, the late Sir Robert Peel being a member of it, and the present Chancellor of the Exchequer chairman. The Committee evidently doubted whether there ought to be so much facility given for Irish gentlemen to get into debt; but in the result it proved that even sagacious statesmen were unable to grapple with those who maintained that Ireland was not ripe for an assimilation of the law MR. WHITESIDE then moved for to that of England. They therefore releave to bring in a Bill to facilitate the sale commended certain palliations of the and transfer of land, by simplifying and existing evil, but expressed an opinion consolidating the law relating to judg- that it would be necessary to make a comments, and by providing for the protection plete change in the entire system. He of purchasers against Crown debts in Ire-subscribed to the recommendations which MR. WHITESIDE was understood to say that compensation to some of those Judges had been provided for by the Bill. MR. BAGWELL would be glad to know when this and other Irish Bills would come on for discussion. The assizes would begin very early this spring, and most of the Irish Members would have to return for that purpose. MR. WHITESIDE said, it was his intention to proceed with the Bills he was now introducing as early as possible. Bill for the abolition of Manor Courts and the better recovery of Small Debts in Ireland ordered to be brought in by the ATTORNEY GENERAL for Ireland and Lord NAAS. SALE AND TRANSFER OF LANDS JUDGMENTS (IRELAND). of a judgment creditor. This had been was, that no conveyancer in Ireland would they made, founded on an opinion that nothing could be more mischievous than the existing system of the law of judgments, obtained as he had described, and the appointment of receivers under them. The Act of 12 & 13 Vict. was passed to carry out the recommendations of the Com-tered against the shareholders. The result mittee; and he found in it a solution of part of the difficulty, for it was enacted, that where a judgment was not for more than £150, it should not be allowed to be a lien on land, and that not until execution had been delivered should it affect land, nor should a receiver be appointed. If this principle was good for £150, why should it not be good for £150,000? In making such a proposition he was fortified by the Report of the Real Property Commission, in which it was said that the state of the law as regarded judgments against land was most objectionable, whether as regarded elegit, or by making dormant judgments a continuing charge, which rendered land unsaleable; and they said that a judgment ought not to affect land till execution was delivered. That was the principle of his Bill. Sir John Romilly, by an Act 14 & 15 Vict., endeavoured to cure this evil, but his measure had produced greater evils than it found. The system which had been devised at a period before the Incumbered Estates Court was created was this. It was enacted that the judgment should no longer be a charge upon the land, but that the judgment creditor should make an affidavit in the office for Registering Deeds in Ireland, declaring his debtor to be possessed of certain lands, whereupon this affidavit was to be considered as a deed, of which the debtor was to be considered as the grantor, and the creditor as the grantee. By the next section of the Act, this affidavit was turned into a mortgage as soon as it was registered, and thence this Act of Parliament came to be called the Judgment Mortgage Act. All the evils MR. DOBBS bore testimony that the sought to be removed by the first part of law of judgments in Ireland was in such a the Act were continued under the second confused state that the most clear-headed part, by which the judgment creditor man could not understand it, and he trustcould obtain a receiver. But recent deed this Bill would do something to consoli cisions had proved this Act of Parlia- date the law. ment to be inoperative. The intention of it was to give the original creditor who had obtained a judgment all the rights of a mortgagee; but it had been decided that he could only take the residue of the property, after satisfying all the charges which the debtor had laid upon it; whether by registered or unregistered deeds; so that, in fact, he only stood in the position He had MR. MEVOY expressed his hope that the series of Bills now introduced by the Solicitor General for Ireland would effect some useful amendments of the law, and asked whether a day could yet be fixed in which the right hon. and learned Gentleman would introduce the Landlord and Tenant Bill? MR. MALINS congratulated the Solicitor General for Ireland on this measure, which he thought would prove most useful in simplifying the law, and abolishing a monstrous evil. There might be a hundred judgments against a debtor, and it was absurd that a mortgagee should be required to see them cleared away before he could foreclose. A judgment ought not to be a lien on a landed estate, any more than! upon the debtor's household furniture. MR. WHITESIDE said, the Landlord and Tenant Bill would be introduced immediately on his return from Ireland. Bill to facilitate the Sale and Transfer of Land, by simplifying and consolidating the Law relating to Judgments, and by providing for the protection of Purchasers against Crown Debts in Ireland, ordered to be brought in by Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL for Ireland, Lord NAAS, and Mr. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Bill presented, and read 1o. RECEIVERS IN CHANCERY (IRELAND) ABOLITION, &c. LEAVE. FIRST READING. MR. WHITESIDE moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the abolition, in certain cases, of receivers of the Court of Chancery in Ireland. On this subject there had been several Committees of Inquiry, and they had all so unanimously condemned the system of appointing receivers that he did not apprehend any difficulty in obtaining permission to legislate on the subject. It might be interesting to state, with regard to the operations of the Incumbered Estates Court, that since it was established there had been sold no less than £23,933,566 worth of land. But a great quantity of land in Ireland still remained under incumbrances, and there were upwards of 1,100 receivers of estates in the office of the Receiving Master, besides 200 or 300 others in other Masters' offices. The receivers were obliged to enter into recognisances, and each find two sureties, so that their estates, and those of the sureties, were involved in the Chancery complication. The effect had been to complicate the land of that country to such an extent as required a strong measure now to clear it. There had been eighty-four receivers appointed during the last year, and a stop must be put to the mischief. By the present Bill it was provided that where a judgment was obtained no receiver should be appointed where the parties could obtain a sale. There would be certain exceptions, but they would be very few. Bill for the Abolition of Receivers under the Court of Chancery in Ireland in certain cases, and for giving further facilities to the Sale of Incumbered Estates, ordered to be brought in by Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL for Ireland, Lord NAAS, and Mr. SOLICITOR GENERAL. Bill presented, and read 1o. VOL. CLII. [THIRD SERIES]. MARKETS (IRELAND). LEAVE. FIRST READING. LORD NAAS moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the better regulation of Markets in Ireland. He stated that in 1852 a Commission of Inquiry on this subject travelled through the country, and visited every market town. They found in most of the small country towns a great want of accommodation for the public, and the most glaring frauds commonly practised between buyer and seller. Two Bills had since been introduced on this subject, and the present Bill somewhat resembled that of last year; though it differed from it in one important particular, inasmuch as it did not propose to deal with fairs. The reason for excepting those fairs was that they were not held so frequently as markets, that they required an extensive space, which it would be difficult to secure by enactment, and that as the business transacted thereat was confined mostly to the buying and selling of cattle, a similar opportunity for fraud did not exist; moreover, tolls had been abolished in many fairs throughout the country, and any attempt to reimpose them would be resisted by the people; it did not seem therefore, that there was the same necessity for legislation in respect of fairs as existed in the case of markets. It was now proposed to appoint a Commissioner for the regulation of markets in Ireland. The question of ownership, was, no doubt, the difficulty of the matter. It was not intended, as in the Bill of last year, to give the Commissioner power to inquire into the ownership of markets when those rights were still enforced, and which, in many cases, had been held under patent for a long series of years, and had been made matter of family settlement; there are great objections to dealing with such questions in an arbitrary manner, or calling on the owner of the market to prove his title. The Bill provided, therefore, that the Commissioner should merely have power to see that the conditions on which the patent was held were duly performed, and that ample and convenient accommodation was provided for the public. The Bill provided that in every case in which no toll had been levied in a market for the last five years, or no right or ownership whatever had been put in force by any person, the Commissioner should have the power of inquiring into the matter, and declaring who the owner of the market should be. In such a case, he would declare that the G town commissioners, if there were any, should be the owners of the market in the town in which they had jurisdiction; and when no municipal authority existed, any fit and proper person whom the town should select, would be declared the proper owner. Power was also given to establish new markets where they were required, and to provide for an uniform system of weighing produce by pounds, stones, and hundredweights, as well as to fix penalties for fraud and misconduct in the market. MR. H. HERBERT promised to render assistance to the noble Lord in his endeavours to pass the Bill, which he described as a modified portion of the Bill which he himself introduced last year; but he entirely dissented from the opinion of the noble Lord, that the fairs in Ireland did not require regulation equally with markets. He was inclined to think that the fairs required regulation more than the markets. He was astonished to hear the noble Lord say that tolls were abolished all over the country. [Lord NAAS: No, no!] He so understood the noble Lord. The fact was, that tolls were nearly universal. MR. W. BROWN recommended that provision should be made for an uniform system of weights to be used in all the markets throughout the United Kingdom. He remarked, that in some towns butter was sold by one weight, hay by another, and oats by a third; the most perplexing discrepancy existed. MR. M'CANN expressed a doubt as to the powers which were to be given in some cases to enable town commissioners to levy market tolls; he hoped this subject would be delicately treated, for he would as soon have the markets in private hands as in those of the town commissioners. Bill for the Regulation of Markets in Ireland, ordered to be brought in by Lord NAAS and Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL for Ireland. Bill presented, and read 1o. LUNATIC POOR (IRELAND). LORD NAAS moved for leave to bring in a Bill to consolidate and amend the law relating to lunatic poor in Ireland. In 1856 a Commission was issued to inquire into the state of lunatic asylums, both public and private, in that country. The Commissioners visited all the institutions in Ireland for the relief or reception of lunatics, and, having examined all the official persons connected with those asylums, as well as private individuals who had taken an interest in the treatment of the insane, and several keepers of private lunatic asylums, they produced an elaborate and lengthy Report, which is accompanied by the evidence they had taken. The Commissioners made several very important recommendations. He feared that it would hardly be possible in the compass of one Bill to carry out all that the Commissioners recommended, but he had incorporated in this measure most of the important suggestions made in the Report. He did not propose to deal with any other description of lunatics than the poor, for that class was quite large enough, and the considerations involved were of a character sufficiently important to be made the subject of a special Bill. Nor did he propose to deal with criminal lunatics; these are provided for in a Government asylum at Dundrum, under a special act of Parliament. The main feature of the Bill was the substitution, to a great extent, of local authority with regard to these asylums for that central and governmental authority which had hitherto existed in Ireland. The result of such substitution, he believed, would be greater economy and efficiency. Under the present system plans for the erection of costly buildings for the reception of lunatics were submitted to the Lord Lieutenant, they were erected by Board of Works, and the expense thereof thrown upon the ratepayers without their having had a voice in the matter. He therefore proposed that henceforth the direct interference of the Executive Government in the building and management of these asylums should altogether cease. He proposed that in every county visitors should be appointed by the grand jury, with authority to enlarge the old and build new asylums where necessary, and also to exercise all the powers now vested in the boards of governors nominated by the Lord Lieutenant. Where the district asylum belonged only to one county the grand jury of that county would choose all the visitors, the number to be regulated according to population by the Lord Lieutenant. Where the asylum belonged to more than one county, then each grand jury would appoint a certain proportion of the visitors; the several bodies of visitors thus appointed to become one visiting Committee for the management of the district asylum. One of the recommendations of the Commissioners, which he regretted to say he could not adopt, was that a central board should be established in Dublin, to whom the control of these institutions should be intrusted. The creation of such central boards was always to be viewed with suspicion, and in this case it was very doubtful whether a body of that kind was either desirable or necessary. The Bill would define as accurately as possible the duties of all persons connected with the conduct of these asylums; it would provide an active, constant, and rigid system of inspection, and yearly reports from the inspectors would be laid before Parliament. The power of the central authority over these institutions would be wielded principally by the Lord Lieutenant, whose authority would never be exercised except to compel persons intrusted with the management of these asylums to conform to the regulations and to obey the law. The Inspectors would be left very much as they now were. Great pains is taken to avoid the exercise of anything like arbitrary power; and wherever the action of the central authority was likely to be objected to, the parties interested will, before the final order is made by the Lord Lieutenant in Council, have an opportunity of having their representations fully considered. The local authorities would have the power of appointing all officers, such as medical superintendents, visiting physicians, matrons, chaplains, and clerks, subject to the approval of the Lord Lieutenant, and they would also fix the amount of their salaries under the like condition. At present the mode of admitting patients to these asylums was very unsatisfactory. Sometimes they were ad mitted by the resident physician, at other times by the board; and complaints were often made that equal justice was not done to patients having the same claim to be received within their walls. A power was now vested in magistrates to commit to the county gaol dangerous lunatics, who were thus frequently left in prison for a considerable period, without proper care, and were not removed until the authorities of the asylums certified that they had accommodation for them. He proposed altogether to do away with that system, which he regarded as barbarous and wholly unsuited to the present age, and to provide that on receiving information that a poor person had become insane, the relieving officer of the district, or any member of a dispensary committee, should be required to bring the lunatic into the presence of a justice, who should call in the assistance of the medical officer of the dispensary district, and on finding the person to be insane should make an order for his admission, whereupon the relieving officer should convey him immediately to the asylum. The Bill would give the Lord Lieutenant power to remove all lunatics found in gaols, and likewise power-when sufficient asylum accommodation is provided-to remove all lunatics found in workhouses, Gaols and workhouses were most unfit places for the custody of such persons. A proper person is seldom at hand to take care of them; in the one case the poor madman was often given into the care of a tried prisoner-in the other, into that of an aged pauper. No curative treatment could be availably pursued, and consequently the least chance of their recovery was at an end. He therefore proposed, if pos sible, to remove all pauper lunatics from workhouses and gaols-a course which would necessitate a considerable increase in the accommodation at present afforded by these asylums, as would be seen by a consideration of the statistics furnished by the Commissioners. According to their report it appeared that there were in the district asylums 3824; in the workhouses, 1700; in the gaols, 156; and it was supposed that in the various private asylums there were about 3030 more. course, Of as the Commissioners said, it would not be necessary to provide anything like the amount of accommodation that would be required for such numbers, but it was quite clear that a very large addition ought to be made. The Bill empowered the visitors under certain restrictions to admit patients whose friends were capable of contributing towards their maintenance. The absence of anything like decent private asylums, where poor persons able to pay a small sum towards their own support could be received, was now much to be deplored. The Bill also authorized the visitors, in cases where any inmate of an asylum or his relatives were possessed of sufficient property, to proceed against them for the recovery of such sums in aid of the maintenance of the patient as the justices might think fit to make them contribute. The measure repealed all former statutes referring to public lunatic asylums in Ireland, and it furnished in the compass of one Bill a complete code in which every person, from the Inspector downwards, could see at a glance what |
