to be taken for the whole year at the rate of £5 per cent. a man, a sum of £130,000 would be expended every year owing to desertions. MR. W. WILLIAMS said, he thought the Deputy Judge Advocate General was a gentleman whose services might be dispensed with. In the matter of Divine Service he was not going to refuse the army that just privilege, but what were the duties of eighty-one commissioned chaplains at a cost of £19.700, and of more chaplains at a cost of £17,000? What was the meaning of the stock purse of the Guards? What was the meaning of £18,000 for the German military settlers at the Cape of Good Hope? Were they military, or what were they? to the number of troops who benefited by his ministrations. SIR GEORGE LEWIS said, that when the German military settlers went out it was understood that the whole of the expense relating to them was to be borne by the colonial fund. Last year the amount that had been voted for them was £309,476, and this year it was £18,133. He wished to know whether the Government contemplated using them as part of the usual troops of the Cape, or as a part of their ordinary military force, and intended to apply for further grants for them in ensuing years? GENERAL PEEL was afraid that this was not the last that the right hon. Gentleman would hear of these German settlers; MR. MOWBRAY said, he could not because, although the arrangement made allow the opportunity to pass without tes- with them was that they should receive tifying to the zeal and ability of the gen- half-pay for a certain number of years, tleman who filled the office of Deputy they had, he believed, been kept on full Judge Advocate General, and from whom pay ever since their arrival in the colony. he received the greatest assistance. He More than one-half of them had enlisted was a gentleman who abandoned his pro- in the Indian army, and were now serving fession, in which he was rising to distinc- in India. This was the last year during tion, and took the office which he had now which they were to receive half-pay, and filled for ten years. therefore, so far as these Estimates were concerned, they would not again come under the notice of the House. MR. MONSELL said, he did not see any charge for the Director General of Artillery. Did the right hon. and gallant General mean to suppress the office, the only one of importance to which our artillery officers could aspire? There was a majorgeneral to inspect the cavalry, a majorgeneral to inspect the Guards, a lieutenant general to inspect the infantry, and was there to be no officer to inspect the Artillery ? were GENERAL PEEL explained, that the increased charge for chaplains arose from the changes explained by him already as having been introduced into the army. The Government found, on coming into office, that the army was divided between three forms of religion-the English Church, the Presbyterian, and the Roman Catholic. Consequently, when there was no chaplain attached of the religion to which some of the regiment belonged, these men marched from parade to the nearest clergyman of the persuasion in question. When he took office also, the chaplains were paid according to a sort of sliding scale, namely, 10s. for a member of the Church of England, 7s. 6d. for a Presbyterian, and 5s. for a Roman Catholic. Ile had, however, placed all chaplains, whatever their religious persuasion, upon exactly the same footing, the remuneration of each being proportionate Vote agreed to. (4.) £150.000, Embodied Militia. MR. W. WILLIAMS asked for some explanation. GENERAL PEEL said, that this sum was to be voted for the pay of those regiments of Militia which would supply the place of regiments of the line which were upon the establishment, but were now serving in India, and were paid out of the revenues of that country. The amount was deducted from the general Vote for the pay allowances of the troops. It might have been transferred from that Vote by the authority of the Treasury; but he thought that it was better that it should appear as a separate Vote. Vote agreed to. (5.) £88,000, Volunteer Corps. and MR. BERKELEY said, he drew a distinction between the volunteer force employed as a rifle or artillery force, and that employed as mounted yeomen. No one could deny that our nearest neighbour possessed a navy equal to our own and an army superior to ours. He held, that in the present state of the defences of the country, the people would not hear of £80,000 being spent on a mounted yeomanry force which was merely a toy of the nobility. He knew he would bring upon himself a large amount of squirearchical indignation, and he was prepared to bear it; but to prevent it as much as possible, he would admit at the outset that he considered them individually as brave as Julius Cæsar, but as a corps, they were very bad soldiers and inefficient constables. How could they make efficient cavalry corps out of fortyeight hours' drill? It took three or four months before a trooper could be placed on his horse and twelve months before a common cavalry recruit was fit to enter the field, and then he was not so good as he might be. Then in Heaven's name, how could these men be trained? Were they born horse soldiers? He said, therefore, take these men off their horses and place in their hands the rifle, which was equiva lent in modern times to what the bow was in ancient times. Let the country gentlemen then put up targets in their parks, and place themselves at the head of their men, as their ancestors did in the days of Agincourt and Cressey. But while they allowed this tomfoolery to go on with the squirearchy, they turned their backs on the middle classes, who came forward and said, We are unacquainted with the use of arms-give us weapons, and let us practice the use of that fatal weapon which was lately invented. If they answered that prayer they might in the event of an invasion turn every hedge into a fortress, instead of having a cowed, frightened, and panicstricken population. But this reasonable petition was not listened to; he himself had presented a petition for this purpose from the mayor and corporation of Bristol as the gallant General knew [General PEEL, "Hear!"] It was said that there was a hitch somewhere at the Horse Guards, but he hoped the gallant General would get rid of it and establish these corps of volunteers. In the meantime he would move that this Vote be expunged. COLONEL KNOX said, he had never heard in that House a speech more indiscreet and absurd than that of the hon. Gentleman. He himself was in the yeomanry and had been for twenty-five years in the army, and knew something of both forces. It was an ancient and most constitutional force, and as to their forty-eight hours' drill, he could assure the Committee that for the seven days they were out at drill they were at the work from morning till night. The yeomanry corps was most efficient in internal disturbances, because each yeo man knew his man in an excited crowd, and said as he rode along, "John Thomas, I'll mark you.' The effect was indescribable, because the ringleaders knew they were marked men. He should like to see the hon. Gentleman at the head of the Bristol volunteers. No doubt they would prove a most unruly, insubordinate corps, and would make the hon. Gentleman exclaim-“I have raised the devil, and I can't put him down again!" They would be shooting here and shooting there all over the country, and the day might come when they would shoot the hon. Gentleman or any one else. The only suggestion he could make was that a battery of artillery should be added to the yeomanry. MR. WYLD said, he believed that the loyalty and patriotism of the middle classes had prevented the threatened invasion from Bonaparte. Since then the moral tone of the people had much improved, and all classes were heartily attached to the Throne and the institutions of the country. There was not reason then to suppose that the people of this country if taught the use of arms would turn them against the Government. MR. PIGOTT said, that no class of men in the world knew how to manage a horse better than the farmers of England, and he would suggest that if the hon. Member for Bristol was generous enough to offer a cup for competition among the yeomanry troops of his own or any other district he would soon find out, that at all events they knew very well how to ride. GENERAL CODRINGTON said he thought that it was of the utmost importance that the peasantry of the country should be taught rifle practice. They would then feel confidence in themselves, and prove a most important aid should an invasion ever be attempted. GENERAL SIR W. F. WILLIAMS said, he also concurred in the opinion that if the peasantry were trained to the use of arms they would become invaluable. Not only would they prove invaluable guides in a country teeming with hedgerows, but would, if trained, be the best force that could be devised against an invading army. MR. AYRTON said, he would appeal to the hon. Member for Bristol to withdraw his Motion, and to ask for a Committee to consider the propriety of establishing rifle corps throughout the country. He himself was in favour of a volunteer force for the defence of the country; but the yeomanry was a volunteer corps, and for that reason ought to be maintained. MAJOR EDWARDS: It was not my jects. I believe they are able and willing intention to have troubled the House with to assist in protecting the interests of their any remarks upon this occasion, but I can country whenever they may be called upon, not allow this discussion to pass without and of this I am convinced, that they are expressing my opinion upon the subject of always found a most valuable force for the importance of the yeomanry as a part the protection of the districts in which of our national defences. Yeomanry regi- they reside. But even if, as has been ments are composed of men who are taken alleged by some hon. Gentlemen, they from all classes of society in this country. would under the present system be useIn them you have the farmer and the shop- less acting against an organized military keeper, the mechanic and the peasant, force, I contend that they are of the associating together, presided over by the greatest possible advantage when their nobility and gentry of England, and form- services are called into requisition for the ing in the aggregate a force which is more purpose of quelling intestine disturbances. constitutional than any other, and which Many hon. Gentlemen might recollect the might be relied on to the utmost in case services which they rendered during the an invasion should ever be attempted, and riots which occurred in the country so rewhich, though some people affect to think cently as in the year 1842, and their efforts a very improbable contingency, it is as upon that occasion were gratefully acknowwell to provide against. With regard to ledged by the Government. As a marked the drilling of the yeomanry, I differ most instance of their energy and activity, I materially from the hon. Member for Bris- may mention that, out of the 111 men of tol. That hon. Gentleman has chosen to which the Halifax squadron of the 2nd say that the men are drilled only forty- West Yorkshire Regiment is composed, eight hours in the year. I can tell him 101 marched in the middle of the night, that the yeomanry regiment to which I having had only five hours' notice, from have the honour to belong is drilled more that town to Bradford, to assist the regular than ten times that period, and the same troops when danger was apprehended by remark, I believe, applies to most other the authorities; many of the men living regiments, for although only paid for eight at a distance of five miles from the town. days' duty by the Government during their What more valuable source can there be annual training, many of the men are out for the formation of good cavalry than is in detachments or troops once or twice dur- to be found in the yeomanry troops? I ing the week for six months under perma- tell hon. Members that it is to this force nent serjeants, and generally in the pre- and the militia they will have to look for sence of some of their officers. Believing the forces which will be required for Home as I do that this is one of the best forces Service when at any future time it is nethat can possibly be organized, I hope that cessary to employ our army abroad. A the hon. Member will not, when the Esti- gallant officer on the other side of the mates come before the House next year, House has made some allusion with respect grudge a great extension to so constitu- to the propriety of arming the yeomanry tional a force. It is one which I think troops, and the people generally, with might even be doubled with great advan- rifles. This I quite approve as regards tage to the country, and I believe that the the former, but at the same time I should country would not object to see it thus ex- altogether disapprove of that becoming a tended. No one will deny it furnishes us general practice among civilians in this with good horsemen. In my regiment we country. We have, Sir, a pretty fair exhave riding schools in each town, and these ample in France of the effect of training buildings have been erected for its use by every one of the population to the use of the inhabitants. My experience is that all arms. Whether such a practice would classes have shown themselves interested tend to strengthen the Government of the in the yeomanry. So far from causing by country or not, is a point upon which I their conduct a bad feeling in the neigh will leave hon. Gentlemen to form their bourhood to which they belong, I can bear own opinion. I do not think it would; testimony to the fact that the very best but I except from these observations regipossible feeling exists, and, instead of their ments which are now taught the use of the being, as was stated by the hon. Gentle- carbine. This arm cannot be said to be as man. despised and disregarded," I can efficient as the rifle, and therefore I trust tell him that they are very much respected that the Secretary at War will think proby all classes of Her Majesty's loyal sub-per, as soon as practicable, to substitute 66 MR. CROSSLEY could not agree at all with the hon. Member for Bristol on this question, considering that the yeomanry were most valuable as a means of quelling all local disturbances. In an emergency of that kind the object was to disperse the mob and not to shoot them down. the rifle for the carbine, as in the regular the College of Physicians to report on cavalry; for bad as the present carbine is Vaccination; and their Report, in answer, compared with that recently given to many was replete with evidence in its favour; of our cavalry regiments, its use has not and, since then, and especially in 1857, been altogether neglected. I believe it to that testimony had received the fullest conbe a common custom in most regiments for firmation. Notwithstanding, we were yet the officers to give prizes to the best marks- far behind many of the smaller nations of man in each troop, producing an amount of Europe in the facilities which were afforded rivalry amongst the men which cannot be for putting it into practice. The report of too much encouraged. I say, Sir, that the Registrar General showed that in ten properly armed, there is no body of men districts in England one quarter of the who in the fastnesses of Yorkshire and deaths proceeded from small-pox; and in Lancashire, or of many other parts of this that very district of London there had kingdom, from their great knowledge of been 228 cases of death from small-pox the country; intersected as it is with so within the last seventeen weeks, whereas in many hedges, roads, streams, and other the preceding eighteen months there had obstacles to the progress of an enemy's only been 225 cases. In 130 districts force, would prove so valuable and so effi- small-pox was now prevalent in a greater cient as a well trained yeomanry corps. or less degree. There was very little doubt that the increasing number of cases of small-pox was attributable to neglect of vaccination and to bad vaccination. It was clear that after the compulsory Act passed the proportion of children vaccinated to the number of births increased very largely indeed. The percentage in 1854 was sixty-five; but in 1855 it fell to fiftysix; in 1856 it fell to fifty-four; and in 1857 it fell to fifty-two. There was no return which showed the result last year. With regard to the neglect of vaccination, it was owing to the apathy of the parish officers, to the apathy of the public vaccinators, and to the apathy of the popula tion, of whom no penalties were demanded. With regard to the badness of vaccination, Dr. Jenner had stated that, although the art was very easy to learn, unless it was properly learnt, vaccination was absolutely good for nothing. Mr. Marson, of the Small-pox Hospital, stated that in the course of sixteen years, of 3,098 cases of small-pox which had been brought under his notice, he found only 268 cases in which the marks of the best vaccination appeared, and of those 268 cases three only terminated fatally. It was a proof of the valne of good vaccination; and, at the MR. W. WILLIAMS said, he also would join in the appeal made to the hon. Member for Bristol to withdraw his Amendment. MR. H. BERKELEY, in reply, said he would not press his Amendment, as he had attained his object, which was to elicit an opinion touching the necessity for rifle practice. Vote agreed to. Resolutions to be reported on Monday next. House adjourned at half after Twelve HOUSE OF LORDS, Monday, March 7, 1859. MINUTES] Took the Oath.-The Bishop of Cork, same time, of the prevalence of bad vacci &c. VACCINATION.-QUESTION. EARL GRANVILLE, in putting a Question to the noble Marquess the President of the Council, as to whether any regulations had been issued by the Privy Council in respect to Vaccination under the second clause of the Act of last Session, said, that it was now fifty years since the King, by an Order in Council, requested nation. He would suggest that the Privy Council should provide some means of instruction to those medical men who wished to become public vaccinators, and require from them, before being appointed public vaccinators, some proof of their being well informed of the matter with which they would have to deal. It would be of the greatest advantage if some general regulations and instructions were issued under the authority of the Privy Council as to the mode of performing the operation, and if steps were taken to ensure a supply of good lymph. It would also be very desirable if the district vaccinators informed the Privy Council when cases of small-pox occurred, and if the Privy Council sent immediately to such a district a competent medical authority to examine into the mode of vaccination and to stimulate the population to avail themselves of so great a benefit. It was unnecessary for him to urge upon his noble Friend the necessity of having a certain remedy for so dangerous, and, in very many cases, so fatal a disease, applied in the best manner. The expense of what he (Earl Granville) suggested would not be great. What he would deprecate was delay; and he should, therefore, be happy to learn that the attention of the Government had already been turned to this important subject. The noble Earl concluded by putting his Question to the noble Marquess. the number was only 6,327, adding that ordinarily that board distributed about 215,000 charges of lymph; but that under peculiar circumstances the demand had risen (and might again rise) to about 320,000 charges-an amount nearly 60 per cent higher than was supplied in 1838, when the sources of supply were nearly three times as numerous as at present, and suggesting an inquiry into the state of vaccination in certain large towns. At the end of the year 1858, the medical officer of the Privy Council proceeded to Liverpool and Manchester, and made arrangements in the latter place, which would ensure a supply of from 20,000 to 30,000 charges of reliable lymph. Communications subsequently addressed to the Metropolitan Boards of Guardians would, it was hoped, enable their Lordships to secure a further large increase of trustworthy lymph. As soon as the Registrar General's Returns were THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY con- completed up to the end of the year, their curred in thinking it a most important, Lordships directed communications to be though almost exclusively a medical ques- addressed to those Boards of Guardians in tion. The Privy Council had had their whose unions there appeared to be a conattention directed to the subject. They siderable disproportion between the num had been in communication with the Poor ber of births registered and the number Law Board, and with their assistance were of certificates of successful vaccination reabout to take measures to prevent any but ceived by the registrars of districts: 194 properly qualified vaccinators to become letters were accordingly written on the contractors for vaccination. They fur- 22nd of February to call attention to the ther intended to apply to the Medical disproportion, and to urge the Boards to Council to make the knowledge of vac- use their utmost efforts to diffuse the becination one of the qualifications for ob-nefits of vaccination. taining a diploma. They had taken measures to secure a supply of pure lymph and the more general practice of vaccination. He regretted that the proportion of cases of vaccination had dimi nished. In 1849 the number of persons vaccinated was 345,315; of persons successfully vaccinated, 333,248; of registered births, 558,102. In 1854 the number vaccinated was 698.935; of successful vaccinations, 677,886; of registered births, 623,699. In 1858 the number of persons vaccinated had diminished to 468,008; successful vaccinations, 455,004; registered births, 654.914. In November, 1858, the National Vaccine Board called the attention of the Privy Council to the increasing deficiency of the supply of vaccine lymph, stating that in 1838 the number of vaccinations performed by their establishment was 18,659; that the ave. rage number in 1850, 1851, and 1852 was 10,713; and the average of 1854, 1855, and 1856, 8,207; while in 1857 THE EARL OF SHAFTESBURY was understood to observe, that it was most frightful in this civilized country that so many deaths should occur from the effects of small-pox, which might be prevented if the practice of vaccination had been enforced. The deaths that took place from this cause were not, however, the extent of the evil, for even in those cases where death did not ensue, the seeds of decay and established disorder were laid, which gradually undermined the constitutions of the sufferers, and occasioned early and premature deaths. It was extraordinary that there should still be such strong prejudice in the minds of some people against vaccination. Those persons believed either that the operation was wholly inefficient, or that other disorders were communicated by vaccination as bad as the disease itself which it was the object of the system to guard against. That prejudice still remained, and in many cases neutralized the intentions of the Act, although it was com |