neral, who, even upon his own responsibility, called troops from the Cape and wherever he could get them. That raised the amount of the force from 92,000 to 107,000, its present number.

tated by disease. It gives you pensioners whom you are obliged to pay, and who can do but little for you in return. But pre. vention gives you the fighting man, who repays by service the money which you MR. SIDNEY HERBERT: Sir, I am may expend upon him. It would, I feel, not quite sure that the statement of my be presumptuous on my part to express hon. and gallant Friend with respect to any opinion on the interesting statement recruiting is so unfavourable as it appears of my right hon. and gallant Friend on to be. I presume that, in the number of another subject-I allude to Armstrong's men lost to the service, he includes every gun. I may, however, be permitted to vacancy created by a deserter. The de- say, with respect to it, that it appears to serter, however, may be a man who several me that being a discovery of the greatest times rejoins the army. I have heard, in importance, the Government deserve the deed, that there is one instance in which it utmost credit for their immediate adopwas discovered that the same individual had tion of this unequalled invention. I am deserted and re-enlisted with a fresh per- aware that there are persons who say that sonation no less than forty-seven different to embark in a large outlay for the purpose times, having received forty-seven bounties of introducing into the service a weapon from the service before he was ultimately of this description, which is likely to be fixed. The story is, perhaps, somewhat in a short time superseded by something exaggerated, but it at all events serves better is impolitic. My answer to those to show to what extent many desertions who adopt that line of argument is, may represent but one man. With re-"Nations cannot afford to wait in the hope spect to the difficulty of procuring men of securing this something better of which for the army, I would simply say that you speak." The true policy is to provide it is a matter which depends in a great ourselves with the most efficient weapon degree on the impression which is pro- which the present hour affords. The late duced on the minds of the peasantry and Emperor Nicholas entertained, I believe, the working classes as to what are the the idea that some invention would soon be conditions and the prospects of the soldier. brought to light in the scientific world by The families of the working classes scat- which railways would be completely supertered throughout our villages are very slow seded, and delayed in consequence the to take in the changes which are made in construction of those useful works. the service; nor do I think they are yet in the meantime he lost Sebastopol owing thoroughly informed with respect to the to the want of a railroad to connect it with substitution of short periods of service for Moscow. I say, therefore, that whether service for life. They imagine that when with respect to steamships, guns, or anya man enters the army as a recruit, he is thing else, it is unwise to wait for this somecut off from his friends for ever-that he thing better, while other nations are arming undergoes, as it were, a sentence of trans- themselves with the most effective weapons portation, and are not alive to the fact that upon which they can lay their hands. I at the end of ten years he may come back have heard it stated, however - I know to them with some money in his pocket not with what degree of truth-that howsaved during his time of service. Great ever admirable for military purposes Armimprovements have been steadily going on strong's gun may be, there is some doubt in the army for some years, and I was as to its efficiency in naval warfare. The very glad to hear from my hon. and gallant ground upon which that doubt is based is Friend at the head of the War Department, that a narrow bolt, projected with the that he was doing his utmost to effect an greatest velocity, is that species of shot improvement in the sanitary condition of which does least injury to a ship. our forces. It ought to be impressed not passes through, making but a small hole, only upon the medical officers in charge of which is easily plugged, raises but few troops, but upon the combatant officers splinters, and kills a comparatively trifling themselves, that to provide for the preser-number of men; while a shot of large vation of those who serve under them is one calibre, and whose rate of velocity is of their first duties. We are too apt to sup-slower, does infinitely greater damage, pose that cure is everything; but what, let knocks may-be two port-holes into one, me ask, does it effect for you in the army? scatters splinters in every direction, and It gives you men with constitutions debili- commits immense slaughter. The point

But

It

was one on which scientific men alone | safely reduced at the present moment. can form a sound judgment, but it is, I We must recollect that we are getting into think, one well worthy of attention when a new cycle of years. The prestige and the applicability of Armstrong's gun to spell of a peace which had lasted since sea as well as to land service is to be 1815 was broken in 1854. Since that considered. Now, with respect to the time the whole of Europe has resounded amount of the Estimates which have this with the din of arms. At this very moevening been submitted to our notice, I can ment vast military preparations are in proonly say that they, as well as the number gress on the Continent. A strong martial of men which we are asked to vote, seem feling seems to pervade the world. Engvery large. The amount of the Estimates land is now the only country of Europe is not, however, so great as it appears to be; in which peace and war are looked upon for if you look to p. 150 you will find there otherwise than as mere questions of policy a very admirable table, which has been and expediency. The deep-seated feelintroduced for the first time, and which in ing of the people of this country I believe my opinion will be found of the greatest to be that, except in defence of some great use in pointing out the appropriation of interest or under provocation which cannot money between the different manufacturing be borne without dishonour, war is a great departments. From that table it appears crime. I am not of opinion that upon the that £419,235 of the sum set down as Continent, except in the case of a few indivibelonging to the Army Estimates properly duals, any such doctrine prevails. There speaking appertain to the naval service. men look upon peace or war, as I said beThen there is a sum of £700,000 for old fore, as a question of expediency; but we stores, which used formerly to be taken in who entertain different sentiments, are deduction of the gross amount of the Esti- nevertheless obliged to arouse ourselves mates, but which now-I believe at the and prepare for any emergency which may instigation of the hon. Member for Lambeth arise in consequence of the state of feeling -is included in that amount. I confess I which exist in foreign countries. I think regret that the change should have been under these circumstances that the Comintroduced, for there are few men who can mittee will be doing no more than their scan these accounts and ascertain their true duty in giving a hearty support to this nature with the rapidity and accuracy of Vote. the hon. Baronet opposite (Sir H. Willoughby); and it may therefore escape the notice of many persons that the two sums which I have mentioned, making together over £1,100,000, ought to be deducted from the total of the Estimates for the Army during the ensuing year. I am, moreover, of opinion that my right hon. and gallant Friend is wrong in including in the strength of our military establishment the police force in Ireland, inasmuch as they are men who cannot be detached from their peculiar duty. Nor do I think it is right to include the disembodied militia, because although they constitute a reserve force, yet they are a reserve which is not at once available. So also with respect to recruits for the Indian depôts; they cannot, in my opinion, be taken fairly into account in calculating the number of our military force, for they are not available for service. But, although those Estimates are large, although the sum required for the Army and the Ordnance alone is very nearly as great in amount as that which was wanted for the Army, the Ordnance, the Commissariat, and the Navy 1835, yet they could not, I think, be

SIR JOHN TRELAWNY said, he was informed that officers suffered great dis advantages in consequence of certain warrants passed by the Horse-Guards within the last few years. In 1854 it was thought that great rectifications of abuses had been obtained; but there was another warrant in 1858 entirely rescinding in some respects the former warrant. There had, therefore, been two revolutions, and offi. cers said that they did not know what would befall them next. The effect of those already issued was that the claims of a number of deserving officers had been unjustly disregarded. In proof of that statement, he might mention that there was now serving in India an officer of great distinction, a colonel of a regiment, who had been made full colonel for gallant conduct, who had served thirty years, and yet who would find himself passed over by an officer of the Guards of less than twenty years' service, owing to the operation of the warrant of 1858. He would ask whe ther an attempt could not be made to ren der the warrants directing the course of promotion more precise in their language. At present their meaning was often very

Majesty's Government to submit the whole | character were the qualities required in a subject to the investigation of a Committee. soldier. He did not deny that many quick If the result should be a more expensive article in the shape of a soldier, we should have a much better article, and one that in the end would be of less cost. At the same time he hoped means would be taken to let it be generally known how great had been the improvement in the condition of the soldier. He should have been glad to have heard some more particular account of the plan which it was proposed to adopt with regard to the barracks. Their state all over the kingdom, and more especially in the metropolis, was such as loudly called for improvement.

COLONEL SYKES said, the natural defence of the country was the navy; and he hoped it would be kept up in an efficient state. He wished to ask whether the twelve batteries to be sent out to India were part of the 7,878 men included in the present Vote.

GENERAL PEEL was understood to reply in the affirmative.

He

and intelligent recruits were obtained from
the manufacturing districts, but when you
picked up from the streets persons devoid
of stamina and character you threw away
money upon a worthless article. Those
persons could not endure fatigue, and had
to be carried to the hospital almost as soon
as they landed on a foreign shore.
hoped that for the future instructions
would be given to the medical officers of
the army to admit only such to it as were
likely to be of service and not a burden to
the country. He rejoiced to hear that
energetic measures would be adopted for
introducing the Armstrong gun into the
service. England should have at her com-
mand, at whatever cost, the most destruc-
tive warlike weapons that could be in-
vented. Paradoxical as it might sound,
the introduction of such a weapon as the
Armstrong gun would tend to diminish the
destruction of life, for the greater the
range of our guns the less necessary was
it to expose the lives of our soldiers.
Vote agreed to.

(2.) £3,724,474, Pay and Allowances (exclusive of India).

some of the best artillery in the world had existed in the shape of a European force formerly in the pay of the East India Company. The question he wished to have explained was, why that force should not be retained, as it was a force accustomed to the climate, and, as he was informed, could be maintained at one-half the expense of a similar force sent from this country.

GENERAL CODRINGTON said, he was glad to hear that an inquiry was about to be instituted into the principles and system on which recruiting was carried on. At present he regretted to say that several of SIR HENRY WILLOUGHBY said, be the recruits were a disgrace to the service thought that the hon. and gallant General of which they ought to be the honour. The had rather misunderstood his observations present system of recruiting was intolerably when he supposed that he urged the debad. It ought to have been abolished long sirability of relying upon the Native artilago, and in these days one would have ex-lery of India. It was very well known that pected to meet with it only on reading old novels. To tempt a man to enter into the army by giving him a bounty of a few pounds, which he would probably spend in two days, had a most demoralizing effect on the army. In time of peace we succeeded by this wretched means in procuring men for the army, but when a pressure came we failed miserably in obtaining a sufficiency of good men. The same was the case with the navy. This resulted from our not paying full value for the article at the time we wanted it. He thought that the estimate of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Wiltshire, that a soldier virtually received pay to the amount of 14s. a week, was too high. But, whether that was the amount or not which a soldier cost the country weekly, it should be recollected that a man on entering the army surrendered his liberty, his health, and his life. In past times and at present the English agricultural labourer was the best recruit we could obtain. His strength, power of endurance, steadiness, and moral

MR MONSELL said, he wished to call attention to some of the grievances under which the Royal Artillery and Engineers were suffering. Until these corps were brought under the Horse Guards, they could not expect the same share of staff appointments as the rest of the army. But when they were brought under the same command it was an understanding that officers of these corps should participate in those advantages. He wished to know how many officers of the scientific corps were employed on the staff? It was notorious that in the Russian and Sardinian services the highest grades of the

service were open to officers in the Ar-years ago was only £65,000. tillery, and why was that not so in our for the staff at home. Then the staff for service? Again, it was a remarkable fact, the Australian Colonies had increased from that in our service there were fewer officers £12,000 to £18,000; that for Canada had in the Artillery in proportion to the num- risen from £9,000 to £18,000; for the ber of men than in any branch of the ser- Cape of Good Hope it had risen in the vice. The Artillery had reason to complain same period from £15,000 to £29,500. that the advantages which were promised A rise to about the same extent had taken them several years ago when they were place as to Gibraltar and the Ionian Islands, joined with the Engineers had not been and he trusted that the right hon. and accorded to them. gallant General would give some explanation on the subject.