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numerous claims on this valuable site. the entire frontage of the present building Engagements have been entered into with facing Piccadilly, and also a large portion various other societies for portions of that of one of its sides. Now, that application space. I have here a list of those societies for no less than half of the site occupying which have received promises of accommo. 143.000 square feet is one, I cannot belp dation. They are the Royal Academy, the thinking, with all due respect for the London University, the Royal Society, the labours of the Royal Academy, of rather Linnean Society, and the Chymical So- an extensive character, considering that ciety. But, besides these, the Astronomical, there are six other societies to whom, as I the Geological, the Antiquarian, the Ethno- have already said, promises of accommodalogical, the Asiatic, and the Water Colours tion have been made, and seven or eight Societies, which are now located in Somer- whose claims have been strongly pressed bet House, are claimants for accommoda- upon the attention of the Government. Her tion in Burlington House, while strong Majesty's Ministers, however, have deemed recommendations have been made to the it riglit to ascertain, in the first instance, Government of allotting a portion of this what amount of space the Royal Academy site to the Geographical and Statistical may reasonably be supposed to want ; and, Societies. Under these circumstances you in the next place, before they allot them will, I am sure, admit that it is a matter so large a portiou of ground, to be assured of some difficulty to meet those various that the amount of their funds is such as conflicting claims ; but the principle on would enable them to cover, either now or which the arrangement with the Royal at some future time, with buildings adapted Academy is to be carried out has been en to the objects of the institution, the whole tirely agreed upon, the settlement of details of the site which they require. We bave being left as a matter for future considera. taken this course because it appeared to tion between it and the Government. The us it would be extremely undesirable and principle of the arrangement is this-it impolitic to assign to the Royal Academy, appears to me to be a reasonable one, or to any society, a considerable space of that, in order to secure the Royal Academy valuable land, part of which, while they from the inconveniences attendant upon did not need it themselves, they would prefrequent change of place, to afford them vent others from occupying. Of course, more ample accommodation than they so far as the advantages of securing to now possess, and, at the same time, to them a particular aspect and a sufficient provide for the public at large that amount amount of light are concerned — matters
which is necessary to the arlequate so necessary for the purposes of the Acarealization of the specific objects which the demy--Her Majesty's Government are disAcademy has in view, they should, out of posed to deal with them with the utmost their own funds, obtain for themselves a favour and liberality in making their selecsite, to be conveyed to them in freehold, tion of a site. The price paid for the whereby they would be relieved from all entire site of Burlington House amounts apprehension of future removal, while the to no less a sum than £140,000; and, if, advantage would be secured to the country therefore, we should comply with the of having a building suited to the purposes wishes of the Royal Academy we should for which the Royal Academy is designed be allowing them a space of ground of The proposition made to them, therefore, the value of £70,000, which is a very was that a considerable portion of the site considerable sum to dispose of to any of Burlington House should be appro.one society. I think it right to make priated to their use, and should remain this explanation to your Lordships, and over to them in fee simple, upon condition to inform you that the site to be set that upon that site they should erect a apart for the Royal Academy, and the building adapted to the purposes of the principle on which we propose to act in Academy, and not in its style and c!ia- dealing with it, have been agreed upon. racter incongruous with those other build. As to the omount of land to be alloted to ings which were now or might hereafter be them, and the particular position which erected in the same locality. Neither the they are to occupy at Burlington House, precise site nor the exact extent of space to I can only sny that these are questions the be allotted at Burlington House to the Aca- solution of which must, to a certain extent, demy has as yet been decided upon. Those depend upon the claims of those other points are under negotiation ; but I un societies to whom promises have been made, derstand that they desire to have half of and also upon the sufficiency of the funds of the Royal Academy to enable them ade- , vour to place that institution beyond the quately to occupy the ground which may be scope of Parliamentary examination and assigned for their use.
inquiry. It was contrary to our ConstituLORD MONTEAGLE wished to call the tion, and to their own interests that they attention of their Lordships to one fact, should endeavour to do so. and that was that neither the Royal Aca- EARL STANHOPE, after expressing demy por any other of the learned socie- his gratification at the statement of the ties having apartments at Somerset House noble Earl at the head of the Government, could have any Crown right derived from wished to observe that as far as the Antithe original occupation of their official quarian Society was concerned, they made residences, the fact being that Somerset no claim whatever upon the Government House was public property, and had been for a portion of the site of Burlington erected at the public expense. What right House. That society had held apartments they had had been inferred from usage, at Somerset House, but a short time ago and an occupation during pleasure and had a new arrangement had been made with vever been confirmed by Act of Parliament, the Government, which was perfectly satis. which would have been indispensably neces. factory to the council, and they had no in. sary to give them the vested interest which tention to make any claim upon the ground the noble and learned Lord had argued at Burlington House. they possessed. In respect to the future, the noble Earl at the head of the Govern
SUBMARINE TELEGRAPH FROM NAPLES ment proposed, however, most properly, in
TO MALTA. - GUARANTEES TO TELEconsideration of the erection of the new
GRAPH COMPANIES. Gallery at the expense of the Academy, to solve the question by granting them by sta
QUESTION. tute a site io fee, so that now for the first LORD WODEHOUSE said, he had lately time the Royal Academy would possess an seen a statement in the newspapers that a indefeasible right in the land upon which company which had extended its telegrathe building they occupied stood. Any phic communication as far as Sicily were title to the building in Trafalgar Square, disposed to carry it to Malta, but that the derived from the delivery of the keys to authorities would not permit them to land Sir M. Shee, the President of the Royal the cable upon that island. Now, he knew Academy, was wholly untenable. The nothing of the merits of the company
which Crown had no power of creating such a title had made this proposal, and possibly there in that or any other way but by Act of were good reasons for refusing it ; but at Parliament. The building neither was nor first sight it certainly appeared as if some ever could be the property of the Crown. monopoly were set up in favour of the exHe was glad to hear the explanation which isting line, that line being connected with had just been given by his noble Friend the Submarine Company, which at present opposite, and in no portion of his statement enjoyed a monopoly of the communication did he niore cordially concur than that from with France ; whereas the company which which it appeared that the Government sought to extend the cable to Maltă was in were prepared to pay due regard to the connection with a rival line, the Interclaims of other societies, and not to allow national and Electric Telegraph Company. a site of such immense value as Burlington The question was of some importance as a House, situated as it was in the centre of matter of principle, because it involved the the metropolis, to be monopolized by any one mode in which the Government were to single body. The services rendered to the deal with the whole telegraphic system in public by the Royal Academy were such, the Mediterranean. His own opinion was he was prepared to admit, as entitled them that we should have done well to have to the utmost consideration ; but he re- Malta the centre of our telegraphic comgretted to hear any claim advanced of munications in the Mediterranean; and obexemption from the power of Parliament. vious reasons existed in favour of such a
not desirous that Parliament course. In all probability we should then should intermeddle officially in the manage have had four lines touching at this island ment of the Academy, nothing could in his —one from Cagliari to Malta, another from opinion tend more strongly to defeat the Ragusa to Malta, a third by Naples and success of the negotiations now in progress Sicily, and eventually a fourth, which or of their successful termination, than that would be of still greater importancethe friends of the Academy should endea- namely, a direct line from England, passo.
ing by Gibraltar ; and in this case we of the Red Sea line. He (Lord Wodeshould have held the key, as it were, of house) did not complain of that decision, the whole system of telegraphs in the which was probably the best which could Mediterranean. He feared, however, that be arrived at under the circumstances ; the opportunity for making such an ar- and, looking to the difficulty of getting rangement had been lost.
In a very able any company to undertake the work, and Treasury minute, dated February 22nd of to the state of the money.market at that Jast year, reasons were given for the de- time the Government were probably justicision which had been arrived at in favour fied in the guarantee they had given. It of the Austrian line by way of Ragusa and was said that the Turkish Government Candia to Alexandria; but still he thought would proceed with their line to Bussorah, it of importance that no principle should and it would then, no doubt, become be laid down which would prevent future a question whether some assistance should independent communications from being not be given to connect it with Kurmade. lle wished now to call their atten. | rachee, Again, negotiations were in a tion to the necessity of watching the ex. forward state with a view to a guarantension of the system of subsidies and tee to the Ragusa, Corfu, and Candia guarantees. The telegraphic system, and line ; and another guarantee had been especially that of submarine lines was in given to the Atlantic Telegraph Company. its infancy. Although, owing to the failure He did not know precisely what was of the Atlantic cable, such plans were now the agreement at present existing between somewhat out of favour, and although it this last Company and the Government. might at present be impossible to lay down The original subsidy was £14,000 from cables of such length with safety and at a the English and one of a similar amount moderate expense, yet, looking to the pro- from the American Government; but he gress of science, and the immense impor- understood that the Company had applied tance of such communications, it was not for a considerable increase, and he should to be doubted that means would be found for be glad to hear what conditions had overcoming all difficulties. If this were the been agreed upon with regard to it. case, of what importance did it become Whatever might be the result, their Lordthat the Government should not give pre- ships would observe that these guarantees mature guarantees, and should not for were already of considerable magnitude, want of properly considering the lines laid and he did think that if we were to indown, prevent the future advantageous crease them some definite system should development of telegraphic communication ! be adopted on the subject. It might be If the Government had no distinct plan donbted how far it was politic to give any upon which they proceeded they might guarantees at all. In certain exceptional find that they had not patronized the best cases they might be necessary ; but upon lines, and what was still worse, that they the whole he believed the Government had prevented more advantageous lines would act wisely if they declined, as far as from being formed. We had already given possible, to involve themselves in any such à guarantee to the Mediterranean Exten- engagements. He might add that it would sion Company-the Company which had have been a most excellent management if laid down a telegraphic cable from Cagliari some means had been found of connecting to Malta, and from Malta to Corfu. Then, the telegraphic system with the Post Office; since last Session a guarantee had been but he feared the time for that had gone by. given to another and more important line He would now conclude by asking the quesof communication the Red Sea line. tion of which he had given notice—Whether Here he might remind the noble Earl (the it is true that the Proposal of a Company Earl of Donoughmore), that the answer to lay a Submarine Telegraph from Naples given by him upon this subject at the close to Malta bas been refused by Her Majesof last Session was not altogether accurate. ty's Government; and, if so, upon what The noble Earl stated that the Government Grounds : Also, Whether it is the intenhad under their consideration the competing tion of Her Majesty's Government to grant lines, and although no decision had been Assistance, either by way of Guarantee or come to, it was possible they might choose Subsidy, to other Companies beyond those that by the Persian Gulf, whereas it so which have already received such Assishappened that the very next morning the tance. newspapers stated, and quite accurately, THE EARL OF DERBY said, he should that the Government had decided in favour be able to give a short and conclusive answer to the questions of the noble Lord. them, a line would be carried by way of With regard to the first question that had Ragusa. He would not enter into any
digbeen put by his noble Friend, Whether any cussion relative to other lines adverted to proposal made by any company to the Go- by the noble Lord, but he would proceed vernment to lay down a submarine telegraph to answer his question with regard to the from Naples to Malta had been refused by Atlantic telegraph, and he was glad the Her Majesty's Government, and, if so, question had been raised, because it gave upon what grounds, he might state that him an opportunity of stating generally there had been three applications made the principles on which Her Majesty's upon the subject by different parties for Government thought they ought to be establishing a submarine telegraphic com- guided in their dealings with these various munication-not between Naples and Malta, companies for telegraphic communication. but between Cape Passaro and Malta. Two The noble Lord had 'stated that under a of these were made by private individuals. former arrangement Her Majesty's GovernThey were made to Her Majesty's late ment had agreed to give the Atlantic TeleGovernment, and were refused by them. graph Company a subsidy of £14,000 a The overtures have been repeated to Her year, the same sum to be received from Majesty's present Government, and they the United States Government, but under had been equally refused by them. The certain conditions ; and the noble Lord third overture had been made to the Go stated he understood that negotiations vernment by the company to which the were at the present moment going on noble Lord had referred -- the Mediter- between the Atlantic Telegraph Company ranean Telegraph Company, established and Her Majesty's Government, by which for carrying out a proposed small line it was to be agreed that a much larger from Malta to Cape Passaro, a distance guarantee was to be given to that Company. of seventy miles, if the company suc- Now, in making that statement the noble ceeded in making proper arrangements Lord confounded two things together which with the Neapolitan Government, Her Ma- were entirely and absolutely different- , jesty's Government would not offer, upon namely, subsidies and guarantees. He their part, any opposition to carrying out wished to call attention to the distinction, the telegraph proposed ; but that, on the because it affected the basis on which other hand, they were not prepared to offer the Government proceeded. The Atlantic any aid or assistance to the Company. He Telegraph Company made very praisethought the noble Lörd laboured under a worthy efforts to establish a telegraphic misapprehension when he spoke of what line of communication between England and would have been the case if Malta had America, but most unfortunately sank the been made the great centre of telegraphic whole of their subscribed capital in the communication in the Mediterranean, and attempt, and they were consequently unin expressing his belief that the accom- able, contrary to their expectations, to plishment of that object had been pre- prosecute their undertaking effectually ; vented by the refusal of Her Majesty's and, if they were to continue their attempt, Government to sanction a line of telegraph it became necessary for them to enter into between Naples and Malta, and partly by an entirely new arrangement. That being their adopting the line of telegraph esta- the case the arrangement previously entered blished by the Austrian Government by into fell to the ground, and became inopeway of Trieste.
Now, so far as Malta was rative, seeing that it was granted so long concerned, he did not hesitate to say, that only as the Company's line of communihe thought it ought to be the central point cation was in process of working, and it of communication for the various submarine therefore naturally and entirely fell to the telegraphic lines radiating to and from the ground. The Company then requested Continent; but for all that, he did not that Her Majesty's Government would think it by any means followed, that be either grant an additional subsidy for the cause Malta should be the central point of purpose of raising new capital, or that they telegraphic intercommunication, that there would give a guarantee on such capital as fore the Government should avoid availing should be raised. Now, there were two itself of other means of telegraphic com- kinds of guarantees, and there was also a munication that presented themselves with system of subsidy, and these three modes the East, and consequently the Government of assisting telegraph companies were en. had made a negotiation with the Austrian tirely and absolutely distinct from one Goveroment, by which, in conjunction with another. In the first place, propositions
had been made at various times from vari- | legitimate to guarantee a considerable and ous companies, and among others from the high rate of profit on the outlay, in conAtlantic Telegraph Company, for what he sideration of the great amount of risk oriwould call an unconditional guarantee ; ginally run by the company. In such a that was to say, supposing the Company case he did not think it at all illegitimate undertook to expend a certain sum of to give a guarantee to a great undertaking, money for the prosecution of ceriaip works, which if it failed the Government were not that the Government should guarantee to in any way responsible for, and which, if them the receipt of a certain amount of it succeeded, was likely to produce great interest the amount so expended. results to the public, and great pecuniary Now, although this had been done in one advantage to the company. Take, for in case, he held it to be an indefensible stance, the Atlantic Telegraph Company. arrangement, because it was quite clear The Government were negotiating at the that if they guaranteed a company 4 per present moment with that company, and cent for 25 or 50 years, they had no the company had asked the Government security that the work undertaken and for a sum of money to be expended under stipulated for would be properly carried the supervision of the Government, and out, and they ran the risk of being that they should have from the Governcompelled for a length of time to pay a ment a guarantee for a certain number of very considerable sum of money for a ser- years at 8 per cent on the outlay, so long vice that after all might not be accom- as the telegraphic communication was in plished; and although the money might be working order and capable of performing expended and actually lost, the company its functions. Now, it was highly probawould be receiving 43 per cent upon its ble that if telegraphic communication were capital; so that the company would gain, established between this country and Amewhile on the other hand the Government, rica by means of a submarine cable if the in the event of failure, would lose, and in company formed for that purpose, after in. the event of success would have no portion curring considerable risks, succeeded — he of the profit, and derive no profit or advan- thought there was every reason to expect tage from the result. He thought under that the profits might ultimately become these circumstances, and that if this were 8 or 10 per cent, or even more. If they to be the case, that it would be much bet- amounted to 8 per cent—and in saying so, ter (though it was not a plan that he re- he was supposing that the terms were accommended) the Government should take ceded to by the Government, which was entirely into their own hands the construc- not the case at that moment, but if the tion and carrying out of the works and the profits reached 8 per cent, the Government arrangement generally; because then, in- , were subject to no payment whatever, while stead of paying 43 per cent upon the com- if they reached 6 per cent the Government pany's capital, they would probably raise then, on the attainment of the great and the money at 31, and if the undertaking important national object, were subjected were unsuccessful they would lose no more to the payment of 2 per cent and no more by it than by the system of absolute gua- on the guaranteed capital. In cases where rantee; while if they were successful, they the risk of failure was great, but where the would derive all the profits over and above profits and pecuniary advantages in cases the outlay of capital. But in the other of success were considerable, the Governcase of guarantee, the Government would ment, he thought, exercised a wise and a run all the risk without any possibility of judicious course and discretion in guaranprofit. He did not concur in the view teeing a considerable amount of interest. that had been taken with regard to un- Then there was a third class of cases – conditional guarantees, as a principle upon and in these cases he alluded, not only to which Government ought to proceed in re. submarine telegraphs, but to other large ference to a national enterprise which was matters of expenditure in connection with at present only in the cradle of its infancy. the Post Office and Packet Service. He But a conditional guarantee was a very thought no subsidy ought to be given, ex. different thing.
A conditional guarantee cept in cases where the object in view was he took to be perfectly legitimate in a case one of great political and commercial imwhere there was a considerable prospect of portance, and where it is clear that, as a success, but where at the same time there mercantile speculation, unaccompanied by was considerable risk of failure; and where, any subsidy, the project must inevitably fail in the event of success, it was perfectly of success. In that case I think it is per