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will not, because it emanates from one who | lution only, and did not empower them to has always earnestly and perseveringly de- pass a Standing Order for the purpose. precated the object of the recent Act, be The hon. Member for Finsbury, feeling indie posed to accept it. I will not trouble this difficulty, proposed to provide a remedy the Ilouse further. I only ask it to act by the introduction of a Bill. Such Bill in accordance with its own character and would doubtless go through its various dignity ; and to accept an Amendment stages in that House, and he would him. which is moved in no spirit of faction or of self support it ; but in the Lords it might intolerance. I therefore move that no lead to a revival of the controversy, which Resolutions under the provisions of the he had hoped had been for ever brought Act 21 & 22 Vict., c. 49, shall be moved to an end. Under these circumstances, in this House unless at least one day's therefore, he would suggest whether it notice of such Resolution shall have been would not be better to let the law stand as previously given in the Votes ; and that it was for the present, and wait for a more this be a Standing Order of the House. favourable opportunity to place the law in Amendment proposed,
a more satisfactory state.
Mr.BENTINCK said, he did not intend “To leave out from the word " That’ to the end to trespass on the time of the House on of the Question, in order to add the words 'no
the question of the admission of the Jews Resolution, under the provisions of the Act 21 & 22 Vict. c. 49, shall be moved in this House, to Parliament. He had always considered unless at least one day's notice of such Resolution it one of the most painful questions brought shall have been previously given in the Votes,' under discussion, and that pain would be instead thereof.".
increased considerably in the event of its Question proposed, “That the words being again discussed, by the consideraproposed to be left out stand part of the tion that the House had now Gentlemen Question.”
of that persuasion sitting amongst them. MR. MALINS said, he wished to point He rose for the purpose of stating his enout to the hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. tire concurrence with what had fallen from T. Doncombe) the practical difficulty which the hon. Member for North Warwickshire, existed in the course he had taken. In and of expressing his dissent from the doing so, however, he must state that he course which had been proposed by the entirely concurred in his view of the ques. hon. Member for Finsbury. It appeared tion. Parliament had now decided that Jews to him that that hon. Member hail someshould sit in the House of Commons, and what contradicted himself by the course he in the other House also, if that House, as had taken. The hon. Member bad said the House of Commons had done, should he believed it to be the wish of the coun. so resolve ; and knowing the most mature try that Jews should have a seat in that deliberation with which the question had House, and he went on to describe what been discussed in every possible form be he called the bigotry and intolerance of fore that conclusion was arrived at, he was bygone days. He would only say on that most anxious that the discussion should part of the question that his conviction not be renewed. With that view, if was that the great majority of the people of it were competent for this House now to this country were opposed to the admission pass a Standing Order, he should most of members of the Jewish persuasion to cordially concur in the passing of it, with seats in that House. But he further wished the express object of avoiding such re- to call the attention of hon. Gentlemen to newal. Now the Jews had been admitted the position in which they were now placed he could not think it expedient that any by the course proposed to be taken by Member of that religion who might be the hon. Member for Finsbury. The hon. elected to this House should, on presenting Member proposed to make that a perbimself at the commencement of the Ses-manent arrangement which was at present sion, be exposed to that kind of discussion only a temporary one. He seemed to forget and those inconveniences which the hon. the great difficulties in which the question Gentleman who had just sat down thought had herertofore been involved. He seemed it expedient to preserve. But tlie hon. to forget that, however inconvenient and Member for Finsbury, by the form of his incomplete was the mode which had been Motion, showed himself fully alive to the adopted by the two Houses of Parliament fact that the House had not the power of in coming to a settlement of the question, it passing such an order ; because the Act was considered by many Gentlenien in both enabled the House to admit Jews by Reso- Houses that at last a settlement had been arrived at, and by large majorities in both out a Bill ? and, if not, whether they would Houses the proceeding finally resolved upon be so good as to inform the llouse what had been so accepted. He contended, they thought should be done? Entertaintherefore, that those who had been disc ing the views he did upon the subject of sentient to the admission of persons of the oaths, he could not hesitate to give his Jewish persuasion to seats in that House support to the Motion of the hon. Member might fairly complain of this attempt to for Finsbury, and he must say that he was depart from the arrangement which had surprised at the opposition of a man so been come to by the two Houses of the earnest and sincere as was the hon. Member Legislature. It appeared to him that the for North Warwickshire. His (Mr. Coningextreme ansiety of the hon. Member for ham’s) opinion was, that oaths which were Finsbury to make the arrangement per- administered as a matter of course, were, manent, instead of temporary, arose very in their effect, demoralizing, and very soon much from the belief in his own niind that become pothing but a matter of form. It there was
a strong feeling of hostility was only as a matter of form that an oath throughout the country to the admission of was administered to the Members of that members of the Jewish persuasion to seats House. It was a sham. It was hypocrisy. in Parliament ; and, therefore, he desired He asserted that the administration of oathis to prevent if possible the revival of a dis- could only tend to create hypocrisy and cussion on the qnestion at a future period. promote perjury throughout the land. It But he (Mr. Bentinck) was of opinion that was the opinion of that eminent and learned in the circumstances under which the ar- man the present Archbishop of Dublin, rangement of last Session was made, those that if oaths were abolished— leaving the who were opposed to the admission of penalties for false witness-on the whole, persons of the Jewish persuasion to that testimony would be more trustworthy than House, had a perfect right to call upon it is. Whilst no less distinguished a writer the House to adhere to that arrangement, than Mr. Buckle, the author of The Fisand give those who differed from the ma- tory of Civilization in England, spoke jority upon the question an opportunity of of oaths which were enjoined as a matter re-opening it hereafter, and of testing what of course as at length degenerating into was the real opinion of the people on the a matter of form. He said that what was subject.
lightly taken would be easily broken. ForMR. BYNG said, he believed that the tified by such authority he denounced the present was a very suitable opportunity for administration of oaths as a relic of barremedying an admitted defect in the Act barism and ignorance, and earnestly trusted of last Session, with respect to the admis- that at no distant day the whole system sion of Jews to Parliament. The House might be abolished, and that they would had shown by repeated majorities that they content themselves with a solemn declarawere resolved to admit Jews, and they were tion, which would constrain the conscience bound to place the admission of those per- of no man, and yet be equally binding upon sons upon sure and certain ground. The the honour of an Englishman. hon. Member for Finsbury, taking a fair THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEand constitutional view of the question, QUER said, that in the opinion of the Goasked leave to introduce a Bill, to make vernment, if the House were determined to what had hitherto been simply a Resolu. convert their Resolution into a Standing tion, a Standing Order. The House would Order, it would be necessary to proceed by pass that Bill through its various stages ; Bill. For his own part, he very much reit would then go to " another place,” and gretted this proposition had been brought he hoped and believed would there meet forward by the hon. Member for Finsbury. with a favourable reception. Seeing that Remembering what took place last Session no possible disadvantage could arise from —he would not say the compact that had placing the admission of Jews upon a been entered into—but the representations firm foundation, and that the House was that had been made to many hon. Gentlebound to do so in justice to itself, he would men to induce them to come to an arrangecordially support the proposition of the hon. ment which on the whole was highly satisMember for Finsbury.
factory to the majority of the House, he MR. CONINGHAM said, he wished to certainly did regret that a conrse should ask Her Majesty's Government, whether now be taken which would re-open that in their opinion the House was not compe- question, and perhaps lead again to painful tent to deal with the question at issue with discussions, and possibly misunderstandings
with the other House. Had it been in was to pass a Resolution, and then convert their power to change the Resolution into it into an Order, of a more permanent a Standing Order without legislative inter- instead of a temporary character, so that position, he might have felt that many it still remained a Resolution, though by reasons might be urged in favour of such being called a Standing Order it was ima proposition ; and he should not have de- plied that it had a more permanent authospaired of its being carried, if not unani- rity. He did not give this opinion with any mously, by the general concurrence of the confidence, but still he thought it was one House. But, as he was advised, that was well deserving of consideration. Before clearly impossible, and the House could they decided, he thought they ought to look only proceed by Bill, thus embarking upon to the authorities.
lle must, protest, a course of legislation which might not be however, against a statement which had as tranquil as they could wish. He should been made by the right hon. Gentleman certainly oppose the Amendment of the the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which hon. Member for North Warwickshire, be implied there was anything like a comcause it was open to the same objection as pact last year upon this question. His the Motion of the hon. Member for Fins own opinion was, and had been, that the bury, inasmuch as it sought to disturb the course pursued last year upon this quesarrangement that was entered into last year, tion was more likely than any other which and he thought it was extremely desirable could be adopted to revive the angry disafter what then occurred that the question cussions which had taken place - nothing should not be re-opened. The Jews had could be more unsatisfactory or substantiaily attained what they desired. clumsy than the so-called settlement which He knew there was no small majority of had last year been effected. His doubt was that House not unfavourable to the course whether it was worth while to go to the proposed by the hon. Gentleman the Mem- House of Lords to ask them to assist the ber for Finsbury, but still he would appeal Commons in doing that which perhaps to him whether, in such a manner and for the Commons could do without their ausuch a purpose, it was worth while to re- thority, and even if the Commons could vive bygone discussions which had been not do it without the concurrence of productive of so much bitterness.
the House of Lords, he doubted whether Sir GEORGE GREY said, he was not the Commons should send up to the prepared to express a decided opinion in Lordz such a Bill as the one proposed, opposition to what had been stated by the instead of calling upon the other House Chancellor of the Exchequer as to the in- generously to concede the admission of ability of the House to convert a Resolu- the Jews generally. If the hon. Gentletion into a Standing Order ; but at the man the Member for Finsbury pressed liis same time he did not wish by remaining Motion to a division, he (Sir George Grey) silent to bind himself to the doctrine that wishing for time to consider the matter, it was not in the power of the House, with would vote for the introduction of the Bill out obtaining the sanction of Parliament, to --a course he was the more ready to adopt, make the conversion in question. There were as no resistance had been offered during high authorities for the opinion expressed the present Session to the introduction of by the right hon. Gentleman opposite, any Bill. As to the Amendment of the but he thought the House should be very hon. Gentleman the Member for North cautious in admitting that it was necessary Warwickshire, he had no hesitation in reto ask the House of Lords to grant them jccting it. He apprehended an hon. Mema power which, perhaps, they already pos- ber duly elected bad an undoubted right sessed, and which, at all events, it was not to take his seat without any unnecessary at all clear they did not possess. The hon. delay, and that it would be an injustice to and learned Member for Wallingford (Mr. keep any hon. Member who came to that Malins) had stated that a Resolution and table to take the oaths twenty-four or fortya Standing Order were two different things. eight hours without taking his seat. Now, the fact was that they were both of MR. T. DUNCOMBE said, he thought the same character ; both Orders of the he should not be justified in complying with House—both, in fact, Resolutions; and he the appeal made to him to withdraw his thought it would be found that every Motion. He was not disposed to pay the Standing Order of the House embodied in Lords, as a body, so ill a compliment as it a Resolution of the House. If they wish to suppose that they would reject the Bill, ed to make a Standing Order the first step and some of the Peers, with whom he had VOL. CLII. (THIRD SERIES.]
spoken, declared to him that they had no ment, and instead of pressing his Motion idea that the Resolution passed under the for leave to introduce a Bill, he should Act of last year would not have the effect refer the matter to a Select Committee, which was now sought to be given to it. to consider the best mode of carrying the No doubt the House had a right to con- Act of Parliament into effect. They would vert a Resolution into a Standing Order, then have a Report from hon. Members of but there was this peculiarity about the different parties in the House who would particular Resolution in question, that the have considered the measure fully and maHouse had received it embodied in an Actturely; and thus they would be in a much of Parliament, and therefore it was doubt- better position to arrive at a decision on ful whether that Resolution could be con- the subject. verted into a Standing Order without the MR. NEWDEGATE said, that if he assent of the House of Lords, and whether was to understand that Her Majesty's Goa Jew taking his seat under a Standing vernment and the House generally were Order made by the sole authority of the willing to adopt the proposal just made by House of Commons would not be subject his right hon. Friend, he should be very to pains and penalties. His best justifica- happy to waive his own opinion, in defertion for introducing the measure was the ence to that of the House, and withdraw Amendment of the hon. Member for North his Amendment. Warwickshire.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. MR. NEWDEGATE said, he had no LORD JOHN MANNERS said, he objection to withdraw that part of the thought that the proposal of the right Amendment which stated that his Reso- hon. Gentleman (Mr. Walpole) was one lution should be a Standing Order of the to which the House might, with propriety, House.
accede. The Government hoped, thereMR. WALPOLE said that, when the fore, that the hon. Member for Finsbury question was last year before the House he would not be indisposed to listen favourably expressed a strong opinion, and he retained to the suggestion. it still, that if the Jews were to be admitted MR. T. DUNCOMBE said, he had listo seats in Parliament, it would be better tened with much pleasure to the speech of that they should be admitted openly and the right hon. Gentleman the Member for directly, than that the question should be Canıbridge University (Mr. Walpole), beleft open to consideration, and to the con. cause of its conciliatory tone, and thought stant discussions that would follow upon it. the course proposed by him very likely Now he owned that he thought they had to lead to a satisfactory settlement. He got into great difficulties by the Act of last should therefore have no objection to withSession. He agreed with the right hon. draw his Bill, on the understanding that Member for Morpeth (Sir George Grey) the right hon. Gentleman would move for that it was not by any means clear what was the appointment of a Committee. (Mr. the force of the Act of Parliament with re- WALPOLE : Hear, hear!] Well, then, he spect to the Resolutions made under it. It placed the matter in the hands of the right was by no means clear to what extent they hon. Gentleman, feeling sure that from the might be carried, whether beyond a Ses experience which he bad had of the right sion or even beyond a Parliament. His hon. Gentleman, as a Member of Commitown impression was, that the Amendment tees, the inquiry would be fairly and proof his hon. Friend (Mr. Newdegate) would perly conducted. be extremely inconvenient; because, if it MR. WALPOLE said, he would now were agreed to, the House would lay itself move, as an Amendment to the original open to the objection which had been urged Motion, that the question be referred to a by the right hon. Baronet opposite (Sir Select Committee to consider and to report George Grey), that a hon. Member was as to the best mode of carrying the Act of entitled to take his seat as soon as he had last Session into effect. been elected. He thought it would have Amendment proposedbeen better to pass a Sessional Resolution “ To leave out from the word That' to the end at the beginning of every Session. But in of the Question, in order to add the words 'a Sepoint of fact there was so much difficulty lect Committee bo appointed to consider and reabout the question, that he would suggest port to the House on the best mode of carrying to the hon. Member for Finsbury, as the into effect the provisions of the Act 21 & 22 Vict
. best mode of getting out of it, that without Subjects professing the Jewish Religion,' instead going again to the other House of Parlia- thereof.”
Question, “That the words proposed to who had given a cordial support to that be left out stand part of the Question,” measure, he certainly did not feel it his put, and negatived.
duty to object to that clause, because he Words added.
felt that when British shipowners were exMain Question, as amended, put, and posed to competition with all the world they agreed to.
were entitled in turn to buy their ships in Select Committee appointed
the cheapest market. But then they were “ To consider and report to the House on the
left with this anomaly, that while the manbest mode of carrying into effect the provisions ufactured article was admitted free of duty, of the Act 21 & 22 Vict. c. 49, to provide for the the raw material was left burdened with Relief of Her Majesty's Subjects professing the a heavy one. The consequence was, that Jewish Religion.”
in 1850 he (Mr. Mitchell) brought forward
a proposal for allowing ships to be built in COLONIAL AND FOREIGN WOOD.
bond. The right hon, Member for Halifax
(Sir C. Wood,) who was then Chancellor RESOLUTION.
of the Exchequer, declined to deal with the MR. MITCHELL said he rose to move subject at that time, in consequence of the a Resolution to the effect that it was the state of the revenue, and on account of the opinion of the House that the duties on great difficulty which a system of drawforeign and colonial wood should be repeal backs would entail, but he promised to ed. Considering the uncertain state of the consider the question at a subsequent revenue at the present moment, he did not period, and in conformity with that propropose by his Resolution to ask the House mise the right hon. Gentleman in 1851 profor the repeal of the duties on wood this posed and carried a reduction of the duties year or at any definite period. What be on foreign wood of from 15s. to 7s. 6d. a wished the House to do was, to express load upon hewn, and from 20s. to 10s. a its abstract opinion as to these duties and load upon sawn timber. That was the on the expediency of repealing them as point at which the duty at present stood. soon as the state of the revenue would Now, what had been the effect of this rerender such a measure possible. To show duction in stimulating the importation and how the question stood he would give the consumption of wood in this country? House a short historical summary of the Prior to 1843 the annual imports of wood gradual reduction of those articles. In somewhat exceeded 1,100,000 loads. He 1841, and for a considerable time previous, would not trouble the House with the the duty on foreign wood had stood at 55s. amount in each year up to 1857, but in per load, and that on colonial 20s. Wood that year the wood imported was 2,494,964 was one of the three great articles a change loads. In this quantity he had included in the duties on which was proposed by the both hewn and sawn timber.
The impornoble Lord the Member for the City of tation, therefore, bad nearly doubled in the London in 1841. He need not say that fourteen years from 1843 to 1857, during that proposal was unsuccessful. In 1842 which the reduction of the duty was made. Sir R. Peel brought in his celebrated bud. He was bound to admit that there had been get, in which he proposed that the duties a falling off in 1858, but that might be on foreign timber should be reduced to 30s. accounted for by the crisis in the prein 1842, and to 258. in 1843. The duty ceding year in this country. The timber on colonial timber he brought down at once trade was always the last to feel a comto the merely nominal sum of 1s. a load. On mercial crisis, and it was also the last to that occasion Sir Robert said, that if there recover from it; but he had no doubt that was an article on which a reduction of duty the small falling off in 1858 would be abunwould be a benefit to the people, it was dantly made up in the present year. It wood. The impost remained unaltered would be seen that colonial timber had exat this amount until 1845, when, in the perienced a considerable reduction in the budget accompanying the total repeal of amount of protection afforded to it; but the Corn Laws, Sir R. Peel proposed that there had nevertheless been no falling off the duties upon foreign wool should be re- in the colonial trade. In 1857 the quanduced to 20s. a load in 1846, and to 15s. tity of wood imported from our Colonies a load in 1847. This state of things con- exceeded the total quantity of our imtinued until 1850, when the repeal of the ports, foreign, and colonial, in 1842. He Navigation Laws relieved from duty the Mr. Mitchell) objected to the continuance manufactured article of shipping. As one of the timber duties on four grounds—First,