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of February, 1858. 5. The Poor Law TIIE IIIGIIWAYS BILL.—QUESTION. of February, 1858.
Returns ordered to be printed in February, MR. H. A. BRUCE said, he would beg 1852, on the Motion of Mr. Poulett Scrope; to ask the Under Secretary of State for and 6, The Return headed “ Ratepayers, the Home Department, whether, as South moved for by Mr. Newdegate, and ordered Wales is excluded from the operation of to be printed on the 12th of August, 1854. the Highways Bill now before the flouse, These sis documents were submitted to the Government intend to introduce a Bill the labour of actuaries, who were assisted to amend the South Wales Highways Act? in obtaining local information generally
Mr. HARDY said, that at present it was throughout the country; but it is not in my not his intention to introduce any other power to put in form any document of the Bill on the subject of Highways, as his precise data on which our opinion is formed. hands were sufficiently full with that the basis of the calculation was founded which he had before the House. At the
on the document I have just named. same time, if the House arrived at the conclusion that a similar measure would be beneficial to South Wales, he would give TIIE STADE DUES-QUESTION. every facility to any hon. Gentleman who
MR. J. L. RICARDO said, he rose to might think proper to bring in a Iligh- ask the Under-Sccretary of State for ways Bill for that part of the empire. Foreign Affairs at what date the notice for He would take that opportunity of observ- the termination of the Treaty of the 22nd ing that an alteration which he had made day of July, 1844, in reference to Stade in the English Highways Bill would, he Dues, between the United Kingdom and thought, meet the views of some bon. Gen. Hanover, according to the Eighth Article tlemen who had given notice of Amend of that Treaty, was given to the Hanoverian ments; he had struck out of the Bill that Government. Whether that notice was withpart which related to the Poor Law Board. drawn or suspended, if so, whether it has
been renewed, and at what date the said
Treaty will actually terminate under the COUNTY VOTERS.--QUESTION.
notice announced to the House as having MR. DODSON said, he would beg to ask been given by the Under-Secretary of the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether State. he will lay upon the Table of the House MR. SEYMOUR FITZGERALD in re. the data upon which is founded the Go- ply said, that the notice for the termination vernment Estimate that the extension of of the Treaty between this country and the right of Suffrage to £10 Occupiers | Ilanover regulating the Stade Dues was will increase the number of County Voters provisionally and formally communicated in England and Wales by not less than to the Hanoverian Government, in accor200,000?
dance with the Eighth article of the Treaty THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE- on the 14th of August last. Shortly after. QUER: Sir, the Government Estimate of wards, when his noble Friend at the head the amount of increase of the County Voters of the Foreign Office was in attendance on by the Bill which the House gave me leave Her Majesty at Hanover, he was urged by to introduce the other night is mainly Count Platen to withdraw the notice, but formed on six documents which are already declined doing so. Lord Malmesbury, howon the table of the House, and in the pos. ever, intimated that if his Excellency would session of hon. Members. Those six docu- limpart to him the reasons why he wished the ments are-1. The Return of the Rating notice to be withdrawn they should be careof Tenements, No. 59, headed “ Poor Law fully considered, and if they should be deemBoard, February, 1851.” 2. The Return ed satisfactory the notice might be withof the Rating of Tenements, No. 630, drawn. In consequence of that, and of some moved for by Mr. Poulett' Scrope, and communications which took place between ordered to be printed August, 1849. our Envoy at Hanover and Count Platen, it 3. Return moved for by Mr. Locke King. was afterwards represented to Her Majes, in the second Session of 1857, No. 4, ty's Government that Hanover considered headed Electors.” 4. The Return now the notice withdrawn or suspended; but to in the course of being issued by the Poor that view the British Government refused Law Board, headed Population of Pa- to accede, and in the last communication rishes,” also moved for by Mr. Locke which had passed between the two GovernKing, and ordered to be printed the 10th ments it was stated by Lord Malmesbury
that any change in the date of the notice at the New Palace, at Westminster, were hoisted could only be made by official negotiations, as soon as they were approved by the referees apand that the British Government could not have been fixed more than three months. With
pointed to judge of their tone and quality, and do otherwise than maintain that the notice respect to the clock, I am unable to say what proof the 14th of August was in full force and gress has been made with it, or when it may be effect. Her Majesty's Government had completed ; but Mr. E. B. Denison, under whose not thought it politic to withdraw that no
sole superintendence the manufacture and supply tice, and it had never been either with of it is placed, will, doubtless, be able to afford the
information which the First Commisioner of Her drawn or suspended, and the Treaty would Majesty's Works requires respecting it. I am, &c. therefore expire on the 14th of August in
CHARLES BARRY. the present year.
Mr. Denison in his letter said.
“The answer to the first part of the question SUPERANNUATION ALLOWANCES.
you have sent me is that the bells have been fixed
in the Clock Tower ; but they are now let down a QUESTION.
little, to enable some pieces to be put into the SIR HENRY WILLOUGHBY said, he frame, of the nature of diagonal braces to strength
en it against the shake caused by the blow of the would bey to ask the Secretary to the great hammer. The clock is not fixed because the Treasury whether he can inform the House, clock room will not be ready for it until the weight or place a document on the Table to show shaft is properly covered over, and the pendulumwhat number of Persons in the Civil Ser- room constructed in it, and an enclosed passage vice, whether their remuneration be coni
made through the air-shaft to give access from the
clock-room to the west dial works. This must puted by day pay, weekly wages, or annual also be made of iron, because the air-shaft is, in Balary, will be entitled to supera nuation fact, a chimney: and it must be made carefully, allowance, and at what amount of charge so as to be air-tight, or else the fumes of the vento the public, under Clause 2 of the tilating fire will come into the clock-room.
assured that the clock room will be ready for the Superanuation Bill?
clock in a week, and that the bell frame will be Sir STAFFORD NORTHCOTE said, finished very soon, and therefore I see no reason he thought it almost impossible to give the why the clock should not drive the hands and be Return asked for by the hon. Baronet, for it striking in a few months.” would not only require a great deal of time, He would endeavour to ascertain whether but the consideration of questions to be set- he could give the further information asked tled hereafter. On going into Committe on for by the hon. Member. the Bill he would endeavour to give the House some general information as to the THE NEW FOREIGN OFFICE. number of persons likely to come under
QUESTION. its provisions.
MR. CONINGHAM said, he wished to MR. RICH said, he thought it would be ask the First Commissioner of Works convenient if the hon. Baronet, the Secre. when he intends to exhibit the Designs for tary to the Treasury, would undertake not the new Foreign Office ? to move the Committee after ten o'clock LORD JOHN MANNERS replied, that the following night.
as soon as he received the working drawSIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE inti- ings and the price at which the contractors mated his intention not to proceed with had engaged to complete the proposed the Bill after that hour.
Foreign Office he would select them for
exhibition ; and he could assure the hon. THE CLOCK TOWER-QUESTION. Member that there would be no proposal MR. HANKEY said he wished to ask for a Vote until the designs had been subthe Chief Commissioner of Works whether mitted to the inspection of the House. the Bells are now all fixed in the Clock Tower; whether the Works of the Clock PRISONS AND WORKHOUSES (IRELAND). have also been placed there; when the
QUESTION. Clock will be in working order ; and the total expense of the Clock ?
MR. MACARTNEY said, he would LORD JOHN MANNERS said, he would beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury read the House two letters which he had whether it is the intention of Her Majesty's received on the subject. The first was Government in preparing the Estimates to from Sir Charles Barry, dated Old Palace bring forward Votes for the maintenance Yard, March 2.
of Convicts and Convicted Misdemeanants " In reply to your letter of this day's date, I confined in County Jails after sentence, have to inform you that the bells of the great clock the expenses of Witnesses at Assizes and
Sessions, and half the Medical Relief in “That no Resolution, under the provisions of Unions in Ireland, as recommended by a the Act 21 & 22 Vict., c. 49, shall be moved in Committee of this House in the last such Resolution shall have been previously given
this House, unless at least one day's notice of Session of Parliament, and in accordance in the Votes ; that this be a Standing Order of the with similar Grants in Great Britain since House —” the year
1846. SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE said,
that the Bill he proposed to introduce was it was the intention of Her Majesty's Go- that then no further trouble would be given
a reasonable and rational measure ; and vernment to bring forward Votes for the to the House on the subject. His Motion maintenance of Convicts and Convicted would leave it optional to either House to Misdemeanants confined in County Jails after sentence, and also for the expenses of There was no doubt that both Houses of
make the Resolution a Standing Order. Witnessess at Assizes and Sessions. Cor- Parliament intended that the Resolution respondence was still going on respecting should have the effect of a Standing Order ; the matters referred to the Select Com- because one of the arguments used by the mittee last year. As to the subject of Earl of Derby in reference to that Bill was Medical Relief in Irish Unions, it
this under the consideration of the Government, but he was not prepared to say when a
“If you admit the Jews by an Act of ParliaBill in reference to it would be introduced. ment, an Act of Parliament will be required to
repeal it ; but if you admit by Resolution the con
stituency will have an opportunity of expressing THE ARMY ESTIMATES.
an opinion whether that Resolution should be con
firmed or rescinded.” QUESTION. MR. WILSON said, he wished to in. Now, if there were no Resolution in exquire whether the Army Estimates ex
istence at the commencement of a new ceeded those of the preceding ones by up
Parliament, no Resolution could be conwards of £1,000,000, and if so whether firmed or rescinded. It was clear, therethe Government would have any objection fore, that both Houses intended a Standto lay on the Table the correspondence ing Order as well as Resolution ; and all which had taken place on the subject be that he wished to do was to supply that tween the Treasury and the War Depart- deficiency. The House of Commons had ment?
passed a Resolution admitting a Jew twice ; THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHE- and thus the House was put to the trouble QUER said, that in the absence of his of repeating a Resolution, which it was right hon. and gallant Friend the Secre- clear was intended to be a Standing Order. tary of State for War (General Peel), he Hon. Gentlemen opposite would be able to could not give a complete answer to the appeal to their constituents, if his Bill hon. Gentleman's Question. It should, passed, and say, “Have we done right in however, be answered on the following admittting the Jews? And shall we take evening. In the meantime, he might ob- the same course for the future? If you serve that the excess was not in the year
think they ought not to be there. we will which the present Government had nothing constituencies, from John o'Groats to the expiring, but in the previous year, with endeavour to rescind that Standing Order."
But if such an appeal were made to the to do.
Land's End, they would say that the StandJEWS ACT-LEAVE.
ing Order should remain ; the people of Eng. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said, he rose to land, from one end to the other, would say, move that, whereas this House has, upon that bigotry and intolerance, and persecu.
** Let us have done, now and for ever, with two previous occasions, resolved
“That any person professing the Jewish reli- tion, and injustice, which have marked the gion may henceforth, in taking the oath prescribed course of so many Parliaments, and leave in an Act to entitle him to sit and vote in this the Standing Order where it is.” More. House, omit the words and I make this de-over, unless the Resolution were converted claration upon the true faith of a Christian,'
into a Standing Order, great inconvenience leave be given to bring in a Bill to provide would arise at the commencement of a that the foregoing Resolution may be made new Parliament, because a mere Resolution a Standing Order. He thought he should would not survive from one Parliament to be able to show the hon. Member for North another. Thus, through a palpable inadWarwickshire, who had given notice of an vertency, the right of a Jewish Member to Amendment,
sit might, by a manæuvre, be defeated or postponed. If a Jewish Member had to sions of this Act. I believe I can show wait for admission till every other Member the House that both the Resolutions upon had been sworn, and the Queen had opened which the proposal of the hon. Member is Parliament, he might be kept out of his founded were hastily adopted by the House. seat for a week. This was inconsistent It will be borne in mind that the first of with that religious equality which it was these Resolutions was in favour of seating the intention of the Legislature to esta- the hon. Member for the City of London blish. All these difficulties would be over- (Baron L. Rothschild). Now I myself, come by the simple expedient of making and many other hon. Members of this the Resolution, once for all, a Standing House, were totally ignorant as to the time Order ; and it was with great deference when that Resolution would be moved, exthat he asked the House to pass an Act to cept that it must be moved before four enable this to be done, and when once done o'clock on any one of four of the days of he was sure that no future Parliament the week, on which the House sits in the would then disturb it. It would remain evening, and at any time before four o'clock on their Journals as a lasting memento of during the Wednesdays' sittings of the the bigotry and intolerance and injustice House. I was totally ignorant, and so of bygone days. He begged to move for were the great body of Members of the leave to bring in a Bill to amend the 21st & House, of the time when it was intended 22nd Vict., c. 49, in the manner mentioned. to move the Resolution for seating the
MR. BYNG seconded the Motion. hon. Member for Hythe (Baron M. Roths. Motion made, and Question proposed-child till just before he appeared at the
table. And let me direct the attention of “ That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the Act 21 & 22 Vict. c. 49, intituled the House to this fact, that the Act of *An Act to provide for the Relief of Her Majesty's Parliament clearly contemplates, as you, Subjects professing the Jewish Religion.' Sir, stated, and most properly stated, that
MR. NEWDEGATE : Sir, my Amend. this Resolution should, when adopted, bement is far more humble than the Motion come a Sessional order ; but this House of the hon. Member for Finsbury. No one, has failed to afford its Members in their as the House well knows, deprecated more collective capacity an opportunity of hearsincerely than I did, the passing of the ing the Resolution proposed, and of inAct to which the present discussion refers : stituting those inquiries which it was obbut, however much I was opposed to the viously the intention of Parliament should object which that Bill had in view, I, for be instituted before either branch of the one, am prepared to obey the law, espe- legislature is asked to consent to a Recially when I consider that the Act itself solution under this Act. Well, Sir, what embodies a compromise between the two happened in the case of the hon. Member branches of the Legislature, which had for the City of London? Why, that he long differed upon the subject of the ad- took his seat in this House whilst holding mission to seats in this House of persons the office of and acting as Consul-General who do not profess the “true faith of a for the Austrian Empire in this country! Christian. Now, the hon. Member for Indeed, Sir, I am quite aware that the hon. Finsbury seems to impute to me a desire Member has felt that his continuance in to disturb that arrangement; but the House that office was inconsistent with his posiwill recollect that when the hon. Member tion as a Member of the British House of for Hytle (Baron M. de Rothschild) came Commons, and that he has transferred the to the table to be sworn, and a Resolution office to another Member of his family, and under the Act of last Session was proposed, not to the hon. Member for Hythe, an act I abstained from dividing the House. But which is no doubt honourable to him as an now that the hon. Member for Finsbury individual. But the House bas done nothing has proposed, first, that the House shall to guard its own character and digvity. I adopt a Standing Order, in defiance of ask, is it right that the House of Comthat Act which he has abandoned, and now mons should pass a Resolution without asks for leave to introduce a Bill that may notice, and then find that it has unwittingly accomplish his object, I feel justified in admitted to a seat in this House the Conmoving, by way of Amendment, that which sul-General of the Austrian Empire ? Take, I believe to be the proper course for the also, the case of the hon. Member for Hythe. House to adopt ; in short, that notice It is a minute point, perhaps, but it is one should be given to the House of the inten- that should have been ascertained before tion to move a Resolution under the provi. the blouse was called upon to adopt the
Resolution in his favour. I understand by notice; I think myself it had better be that the original paper, which attests the made by his appearing at the table, and return of the hon. Member, is not duly that then notice should be given to the colstamped ; at least, it was not at half-past lective body of the House of the intention three o'clock in the day. This, as I have to proceed under this special Act, and to already said, may be a minute objection, adopt a Resolution for the admission of and may
be the result of omission, but such persons. That seems the plain inmay be the result of other circumstances. tention of the Act, which, as I said before, Let us remember how carefully the House is a compromise resulting from a longof Commons has, at all times, guarded itself continued difference between the two against the introduction of an undue num- Houses of the Legislature; and I would ber of office holders under our own Sove- earnestly urge upon the House that, for reign ; how constantly, how repeatedly, the sake of its own character, one of its how perpetually it has done so ; and I ask most valued possessions, it should not prois it prepared, deliberately to sanction a ceed in these cases with the haste and want course of proceeding which has led to its of deliberation which have already led to seating the recognized and avowed repre- results so little creditable to our character. sentative of a foreign Power within its Only conceive what may happen (though I walls? Why, the hon. Member for Lon- do not pretend to say that it has happendon himself feels, and to his honour feels, ed), if such Resolutions are allowed to be that that is not a position in which the proposed without notice. A person may English House of Commons ought to stand ; be elected to a seat in this House who but by the haste of your proceedings under desires that a Resolution of this sort this Act you left it to the hon. Member should be adopted. He need not present for London to do the duty which ought himself in the first week, nor the first to have devolved upon yourselves; and month, nor on the first Session after I ask the House now if it is prepared to his election ; but if there is any ob. trust to the good feeling and sense of projection to him his friends may watch priety of the individual Member so seat- from day to day until the House contains el, by a Resolution of the Ilouse, for all only those, or a considerable majority of time to come ; or whether, by adopting those, who are favourable to his admission, the ordinary course of requiring that notice and they may then bring him from some should be given of any Resolution of this coffee-house across Palace-yard, where he kind, it will place itself in a position to has been lying perdu-present him at the guard against similar errors in future ? table, interrupt the whole business of the Sir, I must say that, bowing completely House, and carry a Resolution baving the to the decision of the House as I'do, it binding force of law by means of a majority nevertheless appears to me that it would be that may be but a shadow of the House advantageous to the House to distinguish itself, and totally or almost totally, exclude between a case of privilege and a Reso- all those who entertain objections to the lution, passed by virtue of a special Act Resolution from giving it that consideration of Parliament. In the former instance, a which it is clearly the intention of the Act Member comes to the table by privilege, to secure. I should not have mooted this and in deference to the rights of his question. It has been left for the hon. constituents and the people we suspend Member for Finsbury to do that ; but as all business until he has made his claim, it has been mooted, I pray the House to and taken the oaths and his seat. But adopt the Amendment which I now propose, under this new law, which embodies the as consistent with the Act in question and feelings and opinions of both Houses of with that deliberate care for its own conParliament, it is determined that the stitution which has ever been one of the House shall, by Resolution, declare whe most valuable characteristics of the English ther certain important words in the oath Ilouse of Commons. If you approve of the taken and subscribed to by Members introduction to seats in this House of pergenerally shall be omitted in deference sons who cannot profess the Christian faith, to the conscientious scruples of those at least admit them deliberately and respect who object to them. To me, therefore, the compromise which bas taken place bethe reasonable course appears to be, that tween the two branches of the legislature the claim of the Member to have those on this subject. This seems then to be words dispensed with, should be made the reasonable solution of the difficulties either by bis appearance at the table or which have arisen, and I trust the House