I a flourishing condition. It is a common mistake to suppose that there has been little or no expenditure of this description in India. For a considerable number of years there has been an average outlay of £2,000,000 on public works. do not, of course, claim credit for the whole of those works as being of a reproductive character. It is difficult to state exactly to what extent they are reproductive, but probably I should be within the mark if I assumed that of the £2,000,000 a year so expended previous to the outbreak of the mutiny, one half at least might be regarded as a profitable investment. During the two years of the mutiny there has necessarily been a decrease in this item of expenditure; but that decrease has not gone so far as might be supposed, the outlay having amounted to £3,000,000, or three-fourths of the average of the preceding ten years. We are at present, perhaps, in a more unfavourable position in one respect I do not mean in reference to finance-than at any former time; because we are now incurring all the expenditure which belongs to a large system of works undertaken without receiving any portion of that profit which can only begin to arrive when the works shall be completed. I came down to night not prepared to go into this subject, and I speak therefore from general recollection; but I think I may say, in round numbers, that the length of railroad sanctioned in India is 5,000 miles, and that the amount actually under construction is about 3,000 miles, while the quantity finished and opened does not exceed 550 miles. We have, therefore, a heavy outlay to bear with a comparatively small return. But I am confident that when the main lines of communication shall be completed, the traffic will increase to such a degree in the districts through which they pass as will very Foon make them amply remunerative. I shall be prepared to enter more at length into this subject ten days hence. In the meantime, perhaps, I may state that we have at this moment in contemplation a plan which will greatly increase the amount of skilled engineering labour at the disposal of the Government. Another class of public works on which some labour has been bestowed is that of irrigation. In the course of last autumn the Indian Government, for the first time, took the step of giving a guarantee to a private company as in the case of railways, for carrying on works of irrigation. Considerable difficulties were anticipated-and I do not say that some of those difficulties may not yet arise as to the negotiations which may have to take place between the company and the cultivators who are to purchase the water which it supplies. But, whatever those difficulties might be, I felt that the experiment was one which ought to be tried, and a guarantee of a million sterling, therefore, was given for that purpose There is no portion of the business of the Indian Administration to which I and the Members of the present Government attach so much importance as to that of pressing on earnestly and expeditiously undertakings of this nature. Guarantees to the extent of something like £37,000,000 have been given to railroads and to other companies of that deseription, and we have felt that in the present state of the moneymarket it was not expedient indefinitely to increase the number of those guarantees; partly because their value would be thereby depreciated, and partly because between the time when the interest upon undertakings of that kind becomes payable, and the time at which they bring back any return a considerable interval must elapse. We have thought it, therefore, more desirable to press forward with the utmost speed the works that are already actually in progress than by giving the fresh guarantees to begin on new works to any great extent. MR. BRIGHT: Sir, I have listened to the observations of the noble Lord with very great pleasure. I think that he has given a very fair answer to the question of my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield (Mr. Hadfield). But there is one point, which has not been referred to, which I think bears very importantly upon the question raised. I fully admit the necessity that there is for establishing roads, or railroads, or some means of communication in various parts of India; but I can conceive it quite possible that the roads should be as good in India as in any part of England, and yet that there should be very little improvement in the cultivation of the soil or in the production of the land. We have had a case of this description near home. In no part of the United Kingdom are the roads better than in Ireland; at the same time, we know that from causes of a different character the agriculture of Ireland was about as bad as possible. We may have, therefore, in India any number of roads that English capitalists may like to make, under the guarantee of the Govern ment, and still we may have very poor cultivation and very little production from the soil. I believe, therefore, that unless something be done-in Southern India especially, in the province of Madras-to improve the tenure of the land, and to give greater security both to the cultivators and to the owners of the soil, little good will result from guarantees to railway companies. I have been very sorry to observe, from private letters and from public newspapers, that the Government of Madras have been following the example of the Government of Bombay, in a manner which I conceive to be little short of official insanity. The Government of Madras have issued a commission, called an Enam Commission, for the purpose of ascertaining the validity of the titles to land in that province; but I think that anybody who has been concerned with Indian affairs during the last two years, must have observed how complete was the unanimity of opinion with respect to the absolute folly and injustice of a similar commission in Bombay. It might be said—indeed, it has been saidthat this commission in Madras is not exactly the same as that in Bombay. Unfortunately, it has the same name, and with the same name, it will do the same work, and I fear that it will produce the same results. If I understand it aright, it is intended to examine into the title deeds and rights of possession of proprietors of land, whose rights have not been disputed for half a century; and the mode in which the inquiry will be carried on-judging from what took place in Bombay-is such, that if it were attempted in regard to the property of the landed gentry in England, it would change this country in a week from a condition of tranquillity to one of absolute revolt. I am speaking from a statement which has been made to me by a gentleman of very high character, and of great information in India, and I believe that I express the sentiments of most gentlemen in this country who are acquainted with the state of affairs in India. The noble Lord, in his new Governor of Madras, has made an appointment which I think is calculated to gain the confidence of the House, and of the friends of India, for I am disposed to think that the gentleman who is going out there is as well qualified, probably, as anybody who could have been chosen for the high office which he is about to fill. At the same time, I do not care what is the character of the man, or how just and pure may be the motives of the noble Lord in appointing him to that office-if he goes to Madras, and is to carry out a system so severe, so relentless, so utterly unjust as has been adopted in the Presidency of Bombay, then, I say, whatever troubles may happen in Madras, and however serious they may be, the noble Lord and those who are associated with him will be responsible for them. It cannot be of the slightest consequence to the Government whether half a score or half a hundred men hold land upon titles which, of whatever nature, have not been questioned for half a century; but it is very important that that expression in the Proclamation which appeared to guarantee to the people of India their rights of property should not be merely a statement upon paper, but should be felt to be a truth by all the Natives of India. The noble Lord, I am sure, will know that I am not making these observations for the purpose of detracting from his merits as the Governor of India in this country. I beg that he will use his own strong sense and just feeling towards the people of India, and that he will not allow the officialism of that country, the red-tapism, the old Indianism-so to speak to overrule him in a matter of this nature. If he does, I believe that he will have next year, or the year after, to repent that he did not act with regard to India upon the only principle which could be applied to the land in this country. I think that the fair thing would have been to appoint a Commission, not to inquire into the titles to these estates, but generally into the whole tenure of land in India, as was done with respect to the practice of torture some time ago. If a Commission were appointed to inquire into the whole question of the tenure of land, especially in the province of Madras, with its population of more than 20,000,000, and in which the land, owing to the mode in which it is held, has no saleable value, and to gain all the information upon that subject which was to be had, I think it very probable that the noble Lord might be able to introduce some legislation which would give to the land, and the industry of the people, and the climate of India, a fair chance of producing all that they could produce, and to the manufacturers of this country all the benefits that could result from their connection with a country capable of producing so abundantly as we know that India can produce. I do not ask for an answer now. I merely throw out these observations as suggestions, and ten days hence, I hope, we shall hear from the noble | £23,000,000 worth of her produce annually, Lord that a Commission will be appointed she only took in return some £12,000,000 to inquire into this subject of the tenure or £13,000,000 of the manufactures of this of land, which I do not hesitate to say is country. Why was this? Because many the first and foremost question to which of the products of this country-woollens, the noble Lord should direct his attention. hardware, stationery, glass, &c., were not LORD STANLEY: I am glad to hear required in India, and the consequence was, those expressions of gratification which that the balance of trade with India since have fallen from the hon. Member with 1800 had been paid in bullion, and rerespect to the appointment of Sir C. Tre- mained in the country. With regard to velyan to the Governorship of Madras. public works, the noble Lord had even unAt the time that appointment was deter- derrated the amount expended upon them mined on I wrote to Lord Harris to re- in the five years preceding the mutiny. quest that he would suspend all operations At this moment three magnificent works with regard to the Enam Commission until of the highest importance were in prothe arrival of his successor at Madras. gress of construction one, the screwThe object of the Commission is not to pile pier at Madras, where for a hundred disturb the old tenures, but, on the con- years past passengers and merchandise had trary, to confirm them, and to give a Par- been landed through the dangers of the liamentary title to a great mass of property surf, but which dangers were now about the validity of the title to which is disputed. to be removed by the erection of a screwCOLONEL SYKES said, that probably the pile pier another, the water works in best course would be to defer any dis- Bombay, which would be completed this cussion on these subjects until the noble year, the water being conveyed from Lord made his statement ten days hence; Salsette--and the last, the improvement of but in reference to the observation of the the harbour of Kurrachee in Scind, at a hon. Member for Birmingham that he hoped great outlay, which improvement, when the noble Lord would not permit old Indians finished, would make the harbour accessito overrule him, he had to remark that ble to ships of large burden, to the great adit did not follow because a man was an vantage of the important trade with Central "old Indian" that he was necessarily either Asia. As to the road communication that an advocate or an admirer of Enam Ten- really was not a question of so much imure Commissions." There was not one portance as the hon. Gentleman (Mr. man in a hundred in this country who really Bright) supposed. For many months of the understood the question of tenure of land year, during the dry season, all India was in India. With respect to Enam Com- a road. The country was not divided or missions great misconceptions prevailed. separated by fences as in England, and the The rights to be inquired into were not whole country might be traversed in any the rights to the land, but the right of direction. Let us hope that with a prosEnamders to the Government tax which pect of the people of India having their issued out of it. There were a hundred confidence restored in the Government, different tenures of land in India, and if a there will soon be a return to that state Committee were to sit in that House and of prosperity to which the country had go into every tenure it would not finish its advanced before the late disturbances. labours for years. On the question of the production of cotton, he wished to know were they to compel the freemen of India for they were still free- to cultivate cotton merely because it was wanted here? Cotton could be produced to an unlimited extent in India, and if the manufacturers of England wanted it, let them make it worth the while of the Natives to grow it in preference to sugar or indigo, or oil seeds; let them send their agents into the country as he had frequently told them during the last twenty years, and contract with the farmers, and cotton would be cultivated to any extent. The House, perhaps, was not aware that while India exported some SIR J. ELPHINSTONE said, he could corroborate the statement of his hon. Friend (Colonel Sykes), as to the growth of cotton in India. He had been in the principal cotton-growing districts, and was assured they were capable of growing an unlimited supply. The great difficulty at present arose from the considerable damage which was done to the cotton from the manner in which it was brought down to the coast from the interior. It was carried on the backs of bullocks. One load was dragged a certain distance and toppled over, after that another load was brought down and so on, so that by the time it reached the coast, it was often in a state of the greatest impurity. No company had ever been | warrant, has directed the discontinuance of formed for purchasing cotton in the interior, those special services which were appointed screwing it up, and sending it down to the for the particular days I have mentioned, coast. He thought if the gentlemen who it is right that the Acts of Parliament to wanted the article were to send their agents which I have adverted should be repealed; into the country to do this, they might pur- and I, therefore, now beg leave to move chase cotton in any quantity, and of a that you, Sir, be directed to ask that leave superior quality. In conclusion, he might should be given to bring in a Bill to repeal state that he had grown cotton in India certain Acts, or parts of Acts, which relate himself, and he knew it could be grown to the observance of the 30th of January with a profit. and other days. MR. J. EWART remarked that there was a necessity of greater irrigation in India before the supply of cotton could be expected to be much increased. Address agreed to: to be presented by Privy Councillors. THE QUEEN'S SPEECH. Resolved, That the Chairman be directed to move the House, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to repeal certain Acts and parts of Acts which relate to the observance of the thirtieth of January and other days. Resolution reported and agreed to: Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. FITZ ROY, HER MAJESTY'S Speech to be taken into Mr. SECRETARY WALPOLE, and Mr. HARDY. consideration on Monday next. (In the Committee). MR. WALPOLE: Sir, the Committee will recollect that during the last Session of Parliament two Addresses were moved-one by the other House of Parliament, and the other by this House-to Her Majesty. praying for the discontinuance of certain forms of prayer on the 30th of January, the 29th of May, and the 5th of November. In pursuance of those Addresses, Her Majesty, by warrant, has now directed the discontinuance of those forms of prayer; but on the issuing of that warrant it was necessary for the Government to consider whether there were not certain Acts still in force which would forbid the exercise of that warrant, by reason of those Acts requiring the observance of those particular days. I find that there are certain Acts of Parliament-I think six, seven, or eight in number-in which no provisions are made for any particular service or form of prayer, but in which directions are given to mi nisters to observe those days, and to the people to attend church. In some instances it is enacted that these days shall be kept as holidays, and that all persons shall abstain from labour and trade; in others, notice is required to be given on the preceding Sunday that these days are to be kept as holidays. I think the Committee will agree with me that as Her Majesty, by Afterwards, Bill presented and read 1o. House adjourned at Six o'clock till Monday next. BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY. THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, that in rising to call the attention of their Lordships to the subject of the Law of Debtor and Creditor, he feared he should be obliged to trespass upon their attention for a greater length than he could have wished. The subject he need scarcely remind the House was one of great importance to all, for the community might fairly be divided into two classes, debtors and creditors, and therefore it was necessary that the law relating to it should be made as perfect as possible. Their Lordships might remember that at the close of the last Session he had laid upon the Table a Bill which at the time he said must not be regarded as embodying the ultimate views of the Government, but rather as the redemption of a pledge that some measure should be produced during that Session. That Bill had been prepared by his hon. and learned Friend the Attorney General, and it was more wonderful, notwithstanding his known industry and ability, that his hon. and learned Friend had found time amid his schedule of a day appointed for a final multifarious occupations to draw any Bill hearing of the case. Upon that day if at all than that that Bill should have failed the creditors offered no opposition, or if to be entirely in accordance with the views they opposed unsuccessfully, an order is of those who would be responsible for if it made for the insolvent's discharge; but passed into a law. In fact, he (the Lord before his adjudication he is required to Chancellor) had invited their Lordships to execute a warrant of attorney, under accept that Bill rather as a guide to the which the creditors are enabled to issue general direction in which the Government execution against any property which he proposed to legislate than as a complete and may subsequently acquire. There is no perfect measure. During the recess the compulsory power in the Court to force an attention of the Government had been insolvent to file a petition, but if he does bestowed upon this very important subject, not do so within twenty-one days a creditor and he hoped they had now succeeded in has the power of presenting a petition to preparing a measure which would receive the Court, praying that the property of the the sanction of Parliament. Upon this sub prisoner may be vested in the provisional ject there were many conflicting opinions to assignee. Upon that petition a vesting weigh, many hostile interests to reconcile, order will be made, and then it becomes and various views both of theorists and prac- the duty of the debtor to file a schedule, tical men to be considered; but he hoped the but there is no power to compel him to result of the deliberation of the Govern- do so; therefore, if a debtor is obstiment would be found satisfactory as well to nate, and chooses to stop in prison, he can Parliament as to the mercantile commu- act in defiance of his creditors, and spend nity. In order that their Lordships should his property as he pleases. That Act apthe better understand the questions to be plies to persons of every description, wheconsidered, he would briefly explain what ther traders or not, and whatever the was the state of the existing law. At amount of their debts may be. Shortly present the laws relating to Insolvents and after the passing of that measure the "Protheir estates were administered by two tection Acts," to which he had previously distinct and independent tribunals, -the alluded, were introduced. The jurisdiction Insolvent Debtors' Court and the Court under those Acts was at first given to the of Bankruptcy. The Insolvent Debtors' Bankruptcy Courts, but by an Act of the Court might be regarded as having had 10 & 11 Vict. it was transferred to the its authority confirmed upon its present Insolvent Court in London and to the footing by three Acts of Parliament pass- County Courts in the country. The mode ed during Her Majesty's reign, the of proceeding under those Acts is, that 1 & 2 Vict. cap. 110, popularly known a debtor presents a petition applying for as the "Prisoners' Act,' because only protection, and at the same time files a persons in custody could have the bene- schedule of all his debts and assets as fit of its provisions, and two other Acts under the Prisoners' Act. This petition of the 5th and 6th of Victoria, and ought also to contain a proposal of some the 7th and 8th of Victoria, generally mode of liquidating his debts. Upon the known as the "Protection Acts.' Under the 1st and 2d of Victoria a prisoner in actual custody might, within fourteen days from the commencement of his imprisonment, apply by petition to the Commissioner for his discharge. In the petition he must express his willingness that all his property of every description shall be vested in the provisional assignee. Upon that petition a vesting order is made, and within four teen days from that time the petitioner is required to file a schedule containing the amount and particular description of all his property of every kind, including debts due to him, and also a list of the debts owing by him, with the names and descriptions of the creditors. Notice is given to every creditor entered in that filing of the petition the property of the debtor ipso facto vests in the official assignee. A day is then appointed for the hearing and notice given to all the creditors. Upon the appointed day, if the conduct of the debtor has been blameless, or his debts have not been incurred within any of the prohibitions of the Act, the Commissioner is empowered to award final protection; but if dissatisfied with the insolvent's conduct, he may in the first instance refuse to appoint any day for the final hearing, or upon the day of final hearing he may, on the opposition of the creditors, refuse to grant any final order. The debtor may afterwards apply for a protecting order, which the Commissioner can grant or withhold at his discretion. |