by an hon. member, that much of fraud had been carried on by some of the claimants, which was the reason why they were so anxious to apply to England rather than to Spain, as in the latter country there was a greater chance of detection than in this. To that, he would observe, that he did not know personally the gentlemen whose cause he advocated, but from what he had heard of them, he had no reason whatever to doubt their respectability, or the validity of their claims. If there was any fraud it would have appeared in court on the trials; but no such thing did appear; on the contrary, the strongest proof of the justice of those claims was, the decision which had been made upon them by the able and learned judge who presided on the different occasions. All charges of fraud, therefore, came at too late a period to have any effect. The precedent of what took place in 1783 was mentioned as a case in point with the present, but it had been fairly shown by his hon. friend (Mr. Wynn) that there was no agreement whatever between them. He had not heard any thing from the other side of the House which made against his motion, or from which he was not the more convinced of the necessity of its being carried. It was the duty of the House, to maintain and uphold inviolate the tribunals of justice, and to be cautious of interfering with them in any way. On these grounds, he contended, that his motion ought to be acceded to.

Mr. Wilberforce observed, that it was a singular fact, that until it was found the Spanish flag could cover the illicit traffic, no vessels of that nation had been busily engaged in the trade. It was, therefore, clear to him, that the real traders were not Spanish subjects, or persons having any claim for remuneration in the courts of Spain. This accounted for the anxiety of such parties to urge a settlement here. The motion was negatived without a division.

SAVING BANKS BILL.] The House resolved itself into a Committee on this bill. The several clauses were agreed to. On the report being brought up,

General Thornton objected to the high interest paid upon deposits. It would, he said, be the means of money being deposited by persons whom these banks were not intended to benefit; and as government could now borrow money at about one-half the rate

of interest proposed, the other half was taken out of the pocket of the public. Besides that, in the event of a war, the depositors would claim their money and cause a still farther loss to the public.

Alderman Atkins wished to know to what particular sums individuals would be limited.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that when the bill came again before the House, he should move the recommittal for the purpose of receiving any amendment that might be suggested; but at present, from the inquiries he had made, and from all the circumstances upon which he was enabled to form a judgment, he thought it inexpedient to check the object of the bill. The privilege allowed had certainly, in some cases, been abused, and perhaps it would be as well to reduce the amount: 100l. for the first deposit, and 50%. a year afterwards, might be thought too much to be contributed by the class of persons to whom Saving Banks were particularly intended to apply. It was with extreme caution, however, that any alteration in this respect should be made, as by checking a partial abuse the House would run the risk of injuring the whole of the measure: 44 per cent. was the interest allowed, but after the deduction for the. management, it could not be said to exceed 4 per cent, which was a rate of interest as moderate as could be allowed to be an inducement for persons of small property to invest their money. Five per cent. could readily be had upon private security; but the House must be well aware of the many lamentable scenes of distress nnd despondency, and of the destruction of the best hopes of many of those who had so employed their money, and who, instead of making the expected benefit of the investment, had been consigned to ruin by the failure of those whom they trusted. Many, if not most of these evils had arisen from the want of persons knowing where to avail themselves of a secure deposit at a moderate interest. To a certain extent this plan might be inconvenient to the public, and might take from the public purse from one to one and a half per cent., but he was certain that the House would not think the amount of from 6 to 10,000/ a year too much, in aid of a plan which tended so much to the industry and morality of the people in general. He confidently hoped, thatthe benefits to be derived would not be threefold or even tenfold, but would extend to a hundred-fold. The

system had succeeded beyond the most sanguine expectations of its promoters; and if it was to a certain degree liable to abuse, it was amply compensated by the general good it occasioned.

The report was ordered to be taken into farther consideration on the 13th of April.

CUSTOMS CONSOLIDATION BILL.] The Report on the Customs Consolidation act being brought up,

The Chancellor of the Exchequer stated, that it was intended in this bill to consolidate all the various duties imposed since 1809, which was the period when a consolidation last took place. The duties would remain nearly as they were, with a few exceptions. There were a few general principles to which, on this occasion, he wished to call the attention of the House. With respect to the Irish duties, which must soon undergo a revision, it was intended they should remain for the present unchanged. No alteration would take place in the duty on timber. With respect to ad valorem duties, at present a duty of 30 per cent was laid on unmanufactured goods, and a duty of 70 per cent on manufactured goods. The duty on the manufactured goods was to be reduced to 50 per cent, and the duty on the unmanufactured goods was to be reduced from 30 to 20 per cent. It would perhaps be advisable, that the varied duties on sugar should be reduced to one fixed rate; but this would be a subject for future consideration. The duties on goods carried coastwise would continue in their present state, except the duties on stone and slates, which would be rendered more simple. The duties on tonnage would not be altered. The present duties on East India goods would be assimilated to the duties on light articles imported from other parts of the British dominions. The thrown silk would be imported from India in the same inanner as from ports of Europe. He congratulated the House on the great growth of the trade to India since the free intercourse with that country. The private trade exceeded not only what the evidence at the bar gave reason to expect, but the most sanguine hopes of the adventurers. It would be proper to give every fair encouragement to this trade which might be consistent with justice to our own manufacturers. It was proposed that raw silk, manufac tured here into thrown silk, should, when

exported, receive a drawback equal to the duty on raw silk imported. East India sugar would be subject to the same regulations as West India sugar, if the proposed fixed duty was established. In the linen trade there would be no alteration; nor would it be fair to make any, without allowing the Irish manufacturers to be heard on the subject.

Mr. Alderman Atkins contended, that there was considerable impolicy in laying duties upon articles of commerce generally, without a due regard and reference to their quality; an average had, therefore, been hitherto wisely adopted. Nothing could be more prejudicial, for instance, than to rate the duty on sugar grown at 50s. as high as on that at 90s. The consequence would be that the growth of that at 50s. would be altogether discouraged. Much danger might result to our trade generally, from forcing the merchant, or shipper, to seek out other depots for their cargoes, as had occurred with respect to some vessels, which had lately been forced to turn about in the river, and seek some other depot. If the right hon. gentleman would apply himself to perfect the ports of this country, the inevitable result would be, that England would become the carrier of all the world.

Mr. Forbes said, that the trade to our East India establishment was hourly increasing in importance, and ought to bave a proportionate share of the attention of his majesty's ministers and of the legislature.

Mr. Butterworth admitted, that it was most desirable that England should become the carrier of the greater part of the world. There were some staple articles in which other countries had decided advantages over this country; for instance, it was not possible for this country to compete with France in the silk manufacture. He was of opinion, that the most safe way to effect the purpose of the right hon. gentleman would be, by allowing in all cases drawbacks on exportation equivalent to the duties paid on import. The report was agreed to.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Thursday, March 19.

GAS LIGHTS.] On the third reading of the Bath Gas Light bill,

The Earl of Lauderdale observed, that the companies established for furnishing.

light by means of gas, appeared to him not to pay sufficient attention to the purification of the gas. He had observed instances of this nature of gross neglect. The tubes through which the gas was conveyed became foul in consequence, and if whilst the evil was not remedied gas lighting was allowed to become general, not only the light furnished would be much deteriorated, but infinite danger would arise to the inhabitants of places where the gas was used.

The Earl of Shaftesbury stated, that in every bill of this description a clause was inserted rendering the company liable to be indicted for a nuisance.

The Lord Chancellor said, the best way would be to dissolve the corporation if found guilty of a nuisance.

The bill was read a third time and passed. Both Houses adjourned to Thursday the 2nd of April.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Thursday, April 2.

STOCK DEBENTURES.] The Earl of Lauderdale moved for accounts of the Gold and Silver Coinage, from the commencement of the present reign, which were ordered; and, with reference to the motion of which he had given notice for the 14th instant, observed, that since he had intimated his intention of bringing the subject forward, reports had gone abroad which, if true, would materially affect the question. He did not mean to go into the minutiae of these rumours, but should shortly notice that there was said to exist an intention on the part of government of issuing Stock Debentures, upon the security of stock to be deposited in the hands of commissioners; as if this were true it would very materially alter the nature of the question as to the cur rency of the country; and as he did not wish to come there upon a non-entity, upon a question, the circumstances of which would be altogether changed from those that now existed, he wished to know whether there was actually an intention of issuing any debentures of the description alluded to?

The Earl of Liverpool said, he had also heard, as well as the noble lord, a variety of rumours relative to the subject alluded to; but all he could say was, that whatever measures it might be thought expedient by government to bring forward, would be explained at the proper time. It was

for the noble lord, however, to consider, whether it was advisable to give credit to a mere general rumour.

The Earl of Lauderdale observed, that it was something more than a general ru mour, as it appeared that, like the lords of the Articles, who formerly in Scotland considered what subjects should be brought before the legislature, the monied men in the city, were now considering this very subject, with a view to the question, whe ther any bill respecting it should be laid before parliament? Under these circumstances, he thought himself entitled to ask for information, particularly as the question so materially involved the subject of his motion. The noble lord had talked of future explanation; but the mischief was, that these financial measures had of late come up to that House at a period of the session when it was impossible properly to discuss them.

The Earl of Liverpool said, that whatever measures might be in the contemplation of government, due notice would be given of their being brought forward, and they would be properly explained. He agreed with the noble lord, that financial measures ought to be brought under discussion at a period sufficiently early; but it would be evident that he could not, consistently with his public duty, enter into farther explanation.

The Earl of Lauderdale then stated, that the bringing forward the motion of which he had given notice, must be considered to depend upon the circumstances that occurred in the mean time.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Thursday, April 2.

COTTON FACTORIES BILL.] Mr. W. Smith presented a Petition from 400 persons engaged in cotton spinning, of Herod, in Ashton-under-Lyne; and another from Staley-bridge, signed by 4,000 persons employed in cotton manufactories, praying, that the Bill before the House, for regulating the hours of labour in the several branches of the cotton factories might be adopted. The hon. member bore testimony to the temperate and respectful language of the petitioners.

Mr. J. Smith, in presenting a petition to the same effect from the workmen employed in the cotton factories at New Lanark, took occasion to observe, that he had had an opportunity of seeing the individuals who signed this petition at

the manufactory where they worked, in the absence of their employer (Mr. Owen), and he could say that he never met with a more moral, well-conducted, or cheerfully industrious set of people than they evidently were. These petitioners deprecated the system which prevailed in other factories of employing people for fourteen or fifteen hours each day, with only an interval of forty minutes to take their meals. They stated that they themselves, under a more humane and benevolent system, worked only for ten hours and a half each day, and were allowed two hours for their meals; adding that they did more work within the time they were employed, than those who were compelled to work for two hours longer every day, because they proceeded in their work with more zeal and activity for the benefit of the employer, from whom they experienced such kindness. Having seen those petitioners, he could declare that they were, without exception, the most respectable and intelligent individuals he had ever observed in the same walk of life.

The Petitions were ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed.

REFORM OF PARLIAMENT.] Mr. Protheroe presented 286 petitions from Bristol, praying for annual parliaments and universal suffrage. The hon. member observed, that he had conversed with several of the petitioners, upon the subject to which their petitions referred; and although they had not been able to persuade him that he ought to adopt their opinions, he felt it due to their character to declare, that they did not appear to be actuated by any improper design-but to act from a conviction that the establishment of annual parliaments and universal suffrage was the best mode of restoring and preserving the purity of that House. Ordered to lie on the table.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Friday, April 3.

SUPPLY OF WATER IN THE METROPOLIS.] Earl Grosvenor said, he had been informed by some of his tenants that a coalition had taken place between some of the Water Companies in the metropolis, by which four had been reduced to three, who had divided great part of the town between them, and the consequence was that the water was, in several instances,

very bad. Some of his tenants who had been served by the Chelsea company were now compelled to take the Grand Junction water, which was of a bad quality, discoloured, and very disagreeable to the taste. He had thought it right to call the attention of the House to this subject, which was of very considerable importance. He was glad that notice had been taken of it in the other House, and he trusted some measure would be adopted to prevent the evil consequences of this monopoly.

The Earl of Lauderdale observed, that the object of parliament, in passing different bills for supplying the metropolis with water, with a view to a competition, had been by these companies completely defeated, and a monopoly substituted. The consequences of this conduct were not merely increased price to the consumer and bad water, but still more, they might be productive of great loss of property. When the pipes of two companies ran parallel in the same streets, in case of fires, for instance, in two different quarters of the town at the same time, each might be extinguished by the water supplied by the different companies; but now, when only one company supplied one quarter of the town, suppose a fire to happen in Soho, and then immediately afterwards another in the neighbourhood of Carlton-house, the first would have exhausted all the supply of water, and a great number of houses might be destroyed in the other situation before a supply of water could be obtained. He trusted this subject, which had been taken up in the other House, would be effectually persevered in until the evil was remedied.

The Lord Chancellor said, that the subject was one of great importance, and if the objects of the legislature in passing the different bills for the supply of water in the metropolis, which must be supposed to be that of creating a competition, had been defeated by the different companies joining together to establish a monopoly, he trusted their lordships would not separate without its being distinctly understood, that it was perfectly within the competence of parliament to set that matter right.

The Earl of Shaftesbury expressed his satisfaction at what had been said, and declared his intention, when the bill came before the House, of contributing all in his power to remedy the evil.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Friday, April 3.

IRISH WINDOW TAX.] Mr. May presented a petition from Belfast praying the repeal of the Window tax, which being ordered to lie on the table, the hon. member took occasion to ask the chancellor of the exchequer, whether the understanding in Ireland was correct, that it was his intention to propose the repeal of this unpopular tax?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, he was glad that the hon. gentleman had afforded him an opportunity of giving some explanation upon the subject to which the petition referred. He understood it to have been generally stated in the Irish papers, as a communication from authority, that it was his intention to move the repeal of the tax alluded to. This statement he had read with surprise, as he certainly never entertained such an intention, nor was he conscious of having ever uttered a word to induce the expectation so generally expressed in the Irish journals. He regretted that he felt himself compelled upon this subject to oppose the wishes of a great proportion of the people of Ireland; but he could not concur in the propriety of repealing this tax, considering the material deficiency of the Irish revenue, and the great amount of the public debt of that country upon the consolidation of the two treasuries.

SLAVE TRADE BILL.] The House having resolved itself into a committee on the Slave Trade Acts,

Mr. Holmes observed, that doubts had arisen whether the acts allowing the transfer of slaves from one of our colonies to another, extended to Demerara and Berbice; and with a view to remove those doubts, he proposed that the chairman be instructed to move" for leave to bring in a bill to explain three acts passed in the 46th, 47th, and 51st years of his majesty's reign respectively, for the abolition of the Slave Trade;" to which motion he understood the hon. member for Bramber did not mean to object.

Mr. Wilberforce said, he should not object to the motion, but he was persuaded that when the object of the bill came to be considered, it would be found to menace the worst effects to the interests of Great Britain, as well as to those of the colonies. Yet he would not oppose the (VOL. XXXVII. )

introduction of this bill, because it was his wish to have the subject fully discussed.

Mr. Marryat strongly deprecated the object of this bill, being convinced that if the transfer of slaves to Demerara and

Berbice were allowed, it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to prevent them from being smuggled into other parts of the continent over which we had no dominion, and especially to Surinam. But on the score of that humanity which had produced the abolition of the slave trade, he would resist a measure which proposed to transport slaves from the scene of their early connexions to distant and unhealthy regions. Such transportation, it should be recollected, was but too likely to benefit foreigners, to the prejudice of our own colonies; for there could be little doubt that if the transportation to Demerara and Berbice were tolerated, the slaves would be seduced, and clandestinely taken away to Surinam, where, from the peculiar fertility of the soil, great temptation was held out to capitalists.-Leave was given to bring in the bill, which was brought in accordingly, and read a first time.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Monday, April 6.

LIBEL LAW.] Lord Erskine said, he had last session moved for returns of the names of persons arrested and held to bail for libel, before trial; some of those returns had been made, but the whole had not yet been presented. It was his intention to follow up these returns by a motion or bill, if no proposition on the subject should be brought forward by a noble earl (Grey) who had already called the attention of their lordships to the subject. With regard to the object for which the returns were moved, he believed that it was now to be understood that arrest before trial for libel was the practice of some inferior magistrates. The law, however, ought not to be allowed to remain in a state of uncertainty on this point. It was not his wish to encourage any licentiousness of the press, but it appeared to him necessary to remove all doubt on this question. He should not, however, trouble their lordships with any proposition on the subject, until the noble earl to whom he had alluded came to town.

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