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In that part of the report in which the committee had examined the various branches of Irish taxation, and the general produce of Irish revenue, they had done justice to the financial exertion which Ireland had made in late years. The permanent revenues of Great Britain, it appeared, had increased from the year 1801, when the accounts of both countries were first made to correspond in the proportion of sixteen and a half to ten, and the whole revenue of Great Britain, including war taxes in the proportion of twenty-one to ten; while the revenues of Ireland were increased in the same period in the proportion of twenty-three to ten. But in the twenty-four years into which the commitee of finance were, by the instruction of the House, directed to inquire, the increase of the Irish revenue had been remarkable, being in the proportion of forty-six to ten.

asking him to undertake the task-[Hear, If they went on with separate exchequers, hear!]. The second point, of still greater and an expenditure such as that which importance, in his opinion, was the in- had taken place since the Union, he knew quiry of the committee on the Finance not how it was to be met without violating and Expenditure of Ireland. The com- that most vital enactment of the Union mittee was originally appointed in 1811; which was meant for their protection, and their attention had been attracted to the which declares, "that no article in Ireinterpretation of that part of the seventh land should be made liable to any new or article of the Act of Union, which refers additional duty, by which the whole to the joint contribution of Great Britain amount of duty payable thereon should and Ireland, and the consolidation of the exceed the amount payable in England debts and exchequers of both countries. on the like article." The committee were aware that the competence of Parliament to declare this consolidation, would arise upon certain proportions taking place between the respective debts. A calculation of the value of those debts was made in 1811 and 1812, and it was found at those periods to have nearly approached the proportions regulated by the Act of Union; but none of the reports from those committees had been acted upon. The committee was revived in consequence of a motion made by him (Mr. Fitzgerald), and the report of the committee would in a few days be in the hands of members. He had the permission of his hon. friend (Mr. Giddy) the chairman, whose industry every man appreciated highly, and of whose labours he should be anxious to avail himself, to refer to the copy of his report. Though the committee were aware that a literal and strict interpretation of that article was not unattended with difficulty, since The right hon. gentleman concluded that period had elapsed, when the respec- his speech in the following words :-In tive national debts were in the proportions calling, Sir, the attention of this commitdescribed, they had yet reported their opi- tee, and through them of Parliament, to nion, that the competence of Parliament the subject of this report, I am, perhaps, had not passed away from it; and they performing the last duty of my present earnestly recommended the consolidation official character; but I can never perform of the debts, and Exchequers of Great one more important, or on which I feel Britain and Ireland, subject to such regu- more earnestly. I regard the act which lations, under the terms of the seventh the report of your finance committee so article of Union, as the Legislature might strongly recommends, as the consummathink it proper to make. He agreed per- tion of that great compact which is the fectly in this recommendation, since the basis of our power and our fame-I reprinciple on which the project of consoli-gard it as it affects both countries, as a dation was founded, was to relieve Ire-measure of indulgence to Ireland, and of land from a scale of contribution which justice to Great Britain and Ireland both. her means were inadequate to defray, I do not fear that Parliament will ever and from the charge of a debt, greater in proportion than she ought to bear. And construing the article with reference to what must have been in the contemplation of both Parliaments, it was evident from the spirit and context of the Act of Union, that it was intended to afford protection to that country, which might be supposed least adequate to its own defence.

declare the competency of Ireland to bear the entire weight of that taxation which the wealth and resources of England enable her to support, without reference to those considerations upon which alone Ireland should be exempted from those burthens which are laid on all other subjects of the United Kingdom. The power of that exemption is specially reserved to Parlia

ment by the Act of Union. I have thought it my duty, Sir, not to leave this subject untouched, nor could I withhold these observations in adverting to it. One of the first results, said the right hon. gentleman, which will probably flow from this arrangement, will be to place at the bead of the financial administration of Ireland, my right hon. friend (Mr. Vansittart.) He will bring to it, I am conscious, talents far beyond what I could ever pretend to, and information greater than I shall ever acquire. But I humbly venture to say, he will not bring to it greater zeal in the public service, or more anxiety than I have felt to discharge my duty equally to my country and the Crown. I shall be accused, perhaps, justly, of presumption, if I attempt to express on this occasion, all that I feel; but I had rather appear presumptuous, than ungrateful. I am deeply sensible of the indulgence which the House have at all times shown me; and I hope, Sir, that the favour which has been shown me by the committee this night, I have not too much abused.-[Hear, hear!] But I feel more deeply still the support that it has been my good fortune to meet with from the Irish public, and the liberality with which they have received those measures which it has been more than once my painful duty to adopt. I hope my right hon. friend may receive the same support: I am convinced he will receive it-he will deserve it, Sir, infinitely more; but at all events, he may expect it from the generosity of the people of Ireland, from that fairness which always interprets justly fair intentions-[hear, hear!] and above all from that public spirit, which far more than legislative acts can do, has strength ened our connexion with Britain-[hear, hear!] that spirit which has cemented the compact that unites us, and which I trust will preserve it for ever.-[Repeated cheers from all sides of the House.]-The right hon. gentleman then moyed his first resolution.

Sir J. Newport complimented his right hon. friend on the ability which he had just displayed. He begged, however, to be permitted to make a few observations on the subject. With respect to the bulk of the taxes, they had already been discussed, and had received the sanction of Parliament. It was to be lamented that any increase in the duty on spirits would, under the present circumstances, be inevitably productive of that which was

He

the bane of Irish prosperity-illicit distillation. Every thing calculated to put down so great an evil, ought to receive their active and decided support. trusted that Parliament, therefore, would never again sanction a remission of the penalties on illicit distillation. It was a monstrous thing to see, that in the very districts where the remission had been granted to the greatest extent, the offence had again been extensively committed. This was particularly the case in the counties of Donnegal and Cavan. In the county of Cavan penalties to the amount of 28,000l. had been remitted; neverthe less penalties to an enormous amount had been again incurred, as if it were attempted to make the magnitude of the offence screen the offender from punishment. With respect to the increase of the assessed taxes, he had already expressed his opinion that it would not be productive of much increase of revenue, from the deficiency of the mode in which the reve nue was collected; for, great as had been his right hon. friend's efforts on this subject, very much remained yet to be done. The grant which it was the intention of his right hon. friend to propose for the more general education of the poor in Ireland, should have his most hearty concurrence; for from their moral improvement, the greatest national, as well as individual benefit, must result. The consolidation of the finances of the two countries would also, he was convinced, be productive of the greatest advantages to Ireland. He had never sat in the Irish Parliament; but out of doors he had been a sincere friend to the Union, on the principle that the great sacrifices made by Ireland in that measure would eventually be more than compensated by the great benefits which it would confer on her. At the period of the Union, the long course of calamitous events which had demanded the utmost exertions of the United Empire was not anticipated. Those events had brought on Ireland a burthen greater than she was able to bear; and which he repeated was not in contemplation in the first instance. So great had been the exertions of Ireland in consequence, that while her debt had greatly increased, her means of meeting the supplies had increased also. Let the committee compare the revenue raised in Scotland and the revenue raised in Ireland since the Union. In that period (during the last 14 years) Scotland had raised a gross revenue of 55,722,000,

He was confident that it was the only measure to which Parliament could look for the introduction of habits of industry and morality among the lower orders in Ireland; and when they considered the avidity which, to their infinite credit, was shown by the lower orders of the popu

and Ireland 70,240,000l.; being an excess | of taxation in Ireland beyond Scotland of 14,000,000l., or 1,000,000l. on the average in every year. If it were asked why greater efforts had not been made by Ireland to keep down her debt, he would an swer, that at the time of the Union, Ireland had but just emerged from circum-lation of Ireland to avail themselves of stances which utterly incapacitated her for vigorous exertions-circumstances originating in the rebellion which had recently raged in that country. But had she therefore been deficient in the exertions which it was in her power to make? By no means. It was to guard her from this cruel imputation that he felt warranted in concurring in the proposition of equalizing the taxes, under proper qualifications, and with the reservations which were consonant to the spirit of the Articles of Union. At the same time he was glad to find that all his right hon. friend intended to do on the subject in the present session, was to propose a resolution upon it, to be discussed at a future period, after all the deliberation which a question of such magnitude and importance demanded.

Mr. Stewart defended the land-owners of the county of Donnegal from the imputation of conniving at the increase of illicit distillation. He had resided in that county twenty years, and had used the utmost exertions to suppress a practice so destructive of the morals and prosperity of the people. Were there a greater number of resident gentry in the county, the effect produced would be much greater; but those who resided there at present could not be expected wholly to put down that which the revenue officers and the military could not sufficiently restrain.

Sir J. Newport, in explanation, denied having said a single word in inculpation of the land-owners of the county of Donnegal.

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Mr. Peel observed, that after the luminous exposition which had been made by his right hon. friend, it would be quite unnecessary for him to intrude upon the committee at any length on the question before them. There was one point, how ever, on which he begged to be allowed to make a few observations. No man could be more sensible than himself of the advantages that would result to Ireland from the general diffusion of education. In making that statement he wished to be understood, that the benefit ought to be restricted to no particular sect-no distinction whatever ought to be observed.

any means of instruction that were afforded them, it would be a reflection on Parliament, if by any ill-judged and miserable parsimony such means were withheld. It had been his misfortune, in the discharge of his official duty, to be compelled to introduce into that House measures of a temporary nature to remedy existing evils in Ireland. But in doing so he was satisfied that those measures must of necessity be temporary, and that they could weigh nothing in the scale compared with the duration and effect of measures of a more general nature. After adverting to the previous reports of the commissioners appointed to inquire into the existing abuses in Ireland, and to the legislative measures that had been founded on them, he remarked, that the last report of those commissioners suggested a general plan for educating the poor in that country. The reason which had induced him to forbear from introducing that plan to Parliament in the shape of a Bill, was, not any insensibility to the advantage of general education, but an apprehension that the plan of education advised by the commissioners would not be advantageous. The report recommended that the Lord-lieutenant should appoint commissioners for the superintendance of the education. Now, he was afraid that this direct interference of Executive Government would tend to excite jealousies that would counteract the benefits that might otherwise be expected from the measure. After due deliberation, therefore, he felt himself fully warranted in forbearing to introduce to Parliament the system recommended by the commissioners. He conceived, however, that the vote which his right hon. friend meant to propose, would by no means involve the evils which he had just described. He was convinced, and he avowed it without hesitation or reserve, that the only rational plan of education in Ireland, was one which should be extended impartially to children of all religious persuasions-one which did not profess to make converts-one which, while it imparted general religious instruction, left those who were its objects to obtain their

that which had been supposed to be exhausted. The right hon. baronet had ad. verted to the rapid increase of Irish debt. It was a consolation, however, that Irish revenue advanced with a still quicker pace. The Sinking Fund of Ireland was now double what the Sinking Fund of Great Britain was at the commencement of the war of the French Revolution; while the debt of Ireland (great as it was) was not half so great as the debt of Great Britain was at that period. There was no cause, therefore, for apprehending that the consolidation of the resources of the two countries, under proper regulations, would subject either to the risk of bankruptcy. To proceed to such a consolidation was most desirable, and he was persuaded that Parliament would deliberate upon it in that temper with which all subjects of great national importance ought to be

particular religious discipline elsewhere-
[Hear, hear!]. On this subject it was
unnecessary for him to dilate. The days
were passed when there existed a pre-
judice against the general education of the
poor. Conclusive proofs had been afforded
that the manner, character, and habits of
a people were improved precisely in pro-
portion to the diffusion of knowledge
among them, by a rational education.
One argument which had been urged
against this liberal system in Ireland, ap-
peared to him to prove directly the re-
verse of that which it was intended to
establish. It had been said, that in times
of public agitation in that country the
schoolmasters had, by their influence
among the lower orders, materially con-
tributed to the evils of those times. But
to what was that influence to be ascribed,
but to their greater information? If the
lower orders, instead of being kept in ex-treated.
treme ignorance, were allowed the means
of obtaining information, they would not
so easily be operated upon and misled. To
the slow and gradual progress of reform
among the people of Ireland, Parliament
must look for a durable improvement in
their character; and he could not conceive
a more certain mode of effecting this most
important object, than by adopting a
judicious plan of general education.

Sir H. Parnell expressed his bigh satisfaction at the able, liberal, and useful speech which had just been made by the right hon. gentleman. He trusted with him, that the operation of the great and broad principle of educating the lower orders in Ireland would not be checked by any ill-advised and niggardly economy. He particularly recommended the example of Scotland in the construction of schoolhouses, and said, that, in his opinion, so trifling a rate as a penny an acre would, in a very few years, afford the means of providing sufficient buildings for carrying the proposed plan into full effect.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer congratulated Parliament and the country, on the manly, vigorous, and judicious manner, in which his right hon. friend had fulfilled the duties of his arduous office. He hoped that there yet remained for him many years of important, though laborious public service. His right hon. friend having succeeded to the task which had been thought too difficult by the able hands which resigned it, had in two years increased the revenue of Ireland two millions a year; thus adding 50 per cent. to

Lord Castlereagh said, he had heard with great satisfaction bis right hon. friend declare his intention of proposing to Parliament a vote by which they should be pledged to take into consideration next session, a measure that seemed to him to be pregnant with beneficial consequences to the empire. When he proposed the union in Ireland, he did it in the hope that it would mitigate, rather than aggravate the expenses of that country. It was impossible for him or any one else to see the calamities which the British empire, in common with the rest of the world, had endured by the progress of the war; attended as it had been by an accumulating necessity for exertion. By those circumstances a greater burthen had been thrown on Ireland than she could have borne had she remained in a separate state. This he deeply lamented. He would not prejudge the question; but he was persuaded when it came to be sifted, it would be found practicable, with perfect justice to both parties, to create that community of treasury and taxation which it was impossible to effect at the time of the Union. He bestowed a high eulogium on the conduct of his right hon. friend, who, during his continuance in office, had made such solid provision for the public service, that every tax which he had proposed had much exceeded in its produce the estimate which he had previously made of it. It would be an additional honour to his right hon. friend to confer on the empire the benefit of bringing the countries into one common system of finance. With respect to the ་

plan of educating the lower orders, no man who knew the energies of the Irish mind, and the eagerness with which the peasantry, parents, and children, sought the means of obtaining information, rather than the means of obtaining wealth, but must anticipate from it the happiest effects. The committee might rely upon it that the powers of that country were almost infinite, and that in proportion to their cultivation, they would fructify to the general advantage.

Mr. J. Smith heard with great satisfaction of the extension of education to Ireland, and recommended that it should not be confined to any religion.

Mr. Peel stated, as a proof of the impartial diffusion of education to all sects in Ireland, that when Dr. Bell repaired to that country a short time since, and the children were examined before him to show their progress in reading, some of them refused to read in any other Testament than their own, and the schoolmasters stated, that they never checked this independence, and never interfered with the sentiments and persuasion of their scholars.

The Resolutions were agreed to, and the Report ordered to be received on Monday.

STAMPS FOR THE BANK OF ENGLAND.] Mr. Grenfell wished to ask the right hon. gentleman opposite, whether, in the late bargain with the Bank, any and what regulation had been made relative to the sum which was to be paid in lieu of stampduties on their notes ?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer replied, that an agreement had been made, which he would take an early opportunity of submitting to Parliament, A regular weekly return of the issue of Bank paper was to be made to the Treasury, a calculation was to be made from this amount, and the Bank was to pay to the public the sum of 3,500l. for every 1,000,000l. sterling of their issue, in lieu of stamp-duties. It was intended to alter this arrangement whenever a resumption of cash payments took place, and to strike an average from the issue of the three preceding years.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Monday, June 19.

OFFICES IN REVERSION BILL.] Earl Grosvenor moved the second reading of the Offices in Reversion Bill. After what had been already said upon this subject, (VOL. XXXI.)

he did not feel it necessary to detain the House by any remarks, unless some noble lord should think fit to make any observations in opposition to it. After the grant of Places in Reversion had by Act of Parliament been suspended for eight years, they must be considered as virtually abolished. This Bill, therefore, was only to be viewed as a measure carrying into effect the determination of the Legislature.

The question was then put from the woolsack, that the Bill be read a second. time, which was negatived without a division. Lord Ellenborough then moveds that the Bill be rejected; and, after a single remark from lord Grosvenor, a division took place. The numbers were, For the rejection, 27; Against it, 7. The Bill was rejected accordingly.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Monday, June 19.

MASTER OF THE ROLLS IN IRELAND.] On the motion that the Report of the Master of the Rolls in Ireland Salary Bill be brought up,

Mr. Horner urged again his objections against this measure. He observed, that even if the Master of the Rolls in Ireland was an officer equal in dignity to the same officer in England, the difference between the places of residence, the one the capital, the other a provincial town, would justify the present difference of salaries. The same reason which was adduced in favour of the present Bill, would justify a similar increase of salary to the judges in Scotland. He should therefore move that the Report be received that day three months.

Mr. Rose observed, that in this country the Master of the Rolls was underpaid, as he had refused an increase of salary which had been offered him.

Mr. Abercrombie opposed the Bill. The return to the House of the business done by the Master of the Rolls in Ireland, was such that no criterion could be formed of the real extent and laboriousness of it. In Ireland there had been no arrear of consequence in the Equity Courts. The business in Ireland, he thought, stood in no need of assistance from Parliament. The Master of the Rolls in England was underpaid, if his salary was compared with the extent of business done by him, and with the great talents which he possessed; but this excellent judge had himself determined that the salary of his office did not need increase,

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