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and distinctions. But this object I never could hope to obtain by pressing the consideration of a measure professing to have these objects in view, when I must have been sensible that the minds of men were not prepared for its reception, when I was conscious it could not be carried in that spirit of harmony, from which all its utility was derived. To have attempted, then, to carry the measure, under such circumstances, would, instead of conciliation, have produced jealousy; instead of healing up the wounds which religious rancour had produced, would only have occasioned new feuds and fresh dissensions. certainly gave rise, in my mind, to bitter grief, to see that I could not, with any prospect of success, bring forward a measure, from the adoption of which I anticipated so much advantage to the Empire; but, though I felt the deepest regret on the subject, I resolved, and I am speaking in the hearing of those who have heard the resolution declared, that I should never be concerned, either in agitating or pressing a measure, the full advantages of which cannot be received, unless it meets with the general approbation of the parties to whose interests it principally applies. I am not, indeed, such a visionary as to imagine that no great public measure is to be introduced unless there is a prospect that it will be almost unanimously adopted; but, I must be candid enough to own, that where the measure has a strong combination to encounter, it ought not to be inconsiderately or intemperately urged. Some pains ought to be taken in smoothing and softening down adverse opinions, and, while a great object is accomplished, to take care that as few evil consequences as possible shall attend it. This, Sir, is the view of the subject immediately subsequent to the Union; and this view, on the most mature consideration, continues unchanged. Even admitting that the question now before the House were carried, of which there appears to me hardly even a chance, it would not at all promote those views of permanent conciliation to

which my attention was principally directed; on the contrary, if the question is not carried, the only effect of agitating or pressing the business now, will be to excite hopes which will never be gratified; to give rise to expectations which are sure to terminate in disappointment. The Catholics will not feel grateful for a benefit meant to be conferred on them, and the Protestants, both of Ireland and England, will be in danger of being disgusted at what they may conceive an unjustifiable attempt to remove those checks on Roman Catholics which the wisdom of our ancestors provided for the security of our Church Establishment. Now, Sir, looking to the chance of success, do we not find that the proposition is brought forward under the most unfavourable circumstances? We find that the great body of our most respectable clergy, that most of our considerable nobility, that the most respectable corporate bodies in the kingdom, that the middling industrious orders in the community, that even the mass of the lower orders, are all agreed in opposition to the motion. I ask, then, even the Hon. Member himself, who introduced the question, whether this was not a very unfavourable moment for submitting the business to the consideration of Parliament? or whether, if the motion were, contrary to all probability, carried, the success would be such as was at all likely to be productive of good consequences? Would it not disappoint all the expectations of the fruits and advantages that were expected from its adoption? Ever since the Union, but peculiarly since the Petition was presented, has not the subject occupied in an especial manner the attention of the public, notwithstanding the intervention of other matters ? I should disguise the truth, if I did not say the prevailing opinion against the Petition is strong and. rooted. But so sensible of this are even those who are most strenuous in behalf of the claims of the Petitioners, that they seem even to anticipate the de-.. cision of the House in its rejection; and it was a con,

viction that this was not the time to look for success, which determined me not to agitate or to press a business where a rejection of the claims of a respec- table body might produce consequences much to be deplored. I believe the general sentiment and feeling of the public mind to be strong and deep-rooted against the claims of the Irish Catholics; and resting the whole efficacy of my measure on a generally declared sense of national feeling, it would have been altogether absurd in me at present to have submitted it to your approbation or rejection. How far circumstances may alter so as to remove all the objections now existing to the discussion of the question, it is not for me to conjecture; and this is the less necessary, because, when the obstacles are removed, I have no doubt that no time will be lost in submitting to Parliament some proposition on a matter so intimately connected with the highest interests, and so necessary to the permanent safety of the Empire.

The Hon. Gentleman who began the debate this evening, and whom I do not now see in his place (Mr. W. Smith), thought proper to make some remarks on a decision of the other House of Parliament on this subject; and argued, that this decision should by no means interfere with the decision to which this House in their wisdom might arrive. I am by no means, Sir, disposed to controvert the position, that we are in all our decisions completely independent of the other branch of the Legislature. I am sensible that, even after that branch have come to a particular decision, this House, supported by the voice of the country, and the strong force of reason and justice, may succeed in spite of all op position, in carrying a measure connected with the security or the honour of the Empire. This, how, ever, is a power always to be exercised with the utmost degree of discretion. I put it then, Sir, to: the consideration of the House, whether, after such a decision as that in the other House of Parliament on this subject, there is any chance that the question

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will be differently decided here under the present circumstances. But let gentlemen consider too, if the motion for going into a Committee were agreed to, whether such a decision would at all contribute to that harmony and conciliation which both sides of the House have in view? are anxious to conciliate the Catholics, but let us not in the mode of applying this conciliation irritate a much larger body of our fellow-subjects. While we draw together the bonds which unite one class of our population, let us not give offence to another part, whose loyalty and attachment have long been undoubted. Before we consent to go into the Committee, let us reflect on the consequences of such a measure, and let us not lose sight of the consideration that the eyes of all orders of the State will be fixed on our proceedings There have been

some arguments used for going into the Committee, to which it appears to me that no importance ought to be attached. The Hon. Gentleman who introduced the motion alluded to the religious hardships to which Catholic Officers coming to this country were exposed. In Ireland they were totally unrestrained; but no sooner were they stationed here than they were liable to all our tests and penal laws. The Hon. Gentleman also alluded to the circumstances of the Catholic private soldiers not being permitted to go to mass, but compelled to attend a Protestant place of worship. If these are real hardships, I think they are matters of mere regulation, and might be the subject of a particular Bill; but surely the House will never consent to go into a Committee upon the general question, with a mere view to examine into such minute articles as those I have now stated. If the House goes into the Committee at all, it must be on broad general principles; it must be for the purpose of considering it in all its bearings and relations. It would be inconsistent with the dignity of the House to allow minute details to be held forth as reasons for resolving into a Committee,

Committee, which is meant to stir up the the very foun dations of the question, and which must of necessity so much excite the hopes and fears of the opposite parties. I lament extremely that the Catholics have at present agitated this question; for I do not deny. their right to petition this House on a subject which, to them, is of the highest importance. I am sorry. that such a time was selected, when no rational hope of success can be entertained. But if you to-day should resolve on a Committee, desiring men of different opinions to concur in it, who may think very differently on most of the points that are to come before them, and with the opinion of the Hon. Mover, who thinks that the whole should be granted, let me ask the Hon. Mover, let me appeal to the Hon. Gentleman who spoke in its favour last night with so much ability, and with so much splendour of eloquence (Mr. Grattan), what would be the result? In fact, he cannot deny that nothing is more dangerous than to hold out hopes which cannot be realized; and either he, or the Hon. Gentleman who introduced the business, has indeed given us an instance sufficiently illustrative of their agreeing in this position. They have contended, that if there were any circumstances arising out of religious opinion which inflamed the Catholics in the Rebellion of 1798, they were solely attributable to the disappointment of those hopes of emancipation which Earl Fitzwilliam had encouraged. What then would be the consequence on the feelings of the Catholics, if the House were to resolve into a Committee, and, after full investigation, decide that no part of the Pe-. titioners' claims should be granted? Would not all their hopes be disappointed, and might not the worst consequences take place? It is the anticipation of such consequences that makes me sincerely lament the agitation of the question at the present moment. If gentlemen feel the truth of this observation, let me ask them, what would be the policy of going into a Committee on a motion to grant the full extent of