notorious influence now maintained over that person' by the French Government, must be an influence highly dangerous to these countries.

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My Lords, the reasons why the great majority of Irish population is at this day Catholic, is owing, in my mind, to a defect in the measures which have effectually tended to promote the Reformation in this country. The service of the Established Church being always celebrated in English, and its sermons preached in that language, consequently, in much the greater part of that country, when until of late years Irish was the language universally spoken amongst the lower orders, neither that service nor those sermons could be understood. There was, however, a striking example of the progress of the Reformation in Wales, where scarcely a Catholic is now to be found. There the natives, not understanding English, the Bible and Common Prayer were translated into Welch for their use, and sermons preached to them by their clergy in that language; the consequence of which was, the whole country became speedily Protestant. But in Ireland the common people scarcely understood a word of English, but from the nature of their education were well acquainted with Latin, in which the service of their Church is always celebrated. Perhaps if some such measure had been adopted toward Ireland, the Bible translated into that language, and sermons preached to them in it, many thousands would have long since been converted to Protestantism, who have remained Catholics. It is my earnest wish, my Lords, to conciliate, as far as possible, the community of Catholics, and to convert as many of them as possible to the United Church: but the state of that Church, I am sorry to say, is not such in Ireland as to promise any sanguine hopes of such an event at any early period. There are in Ireland, I think, 2,400 parishes, which are reduced to 1,100 livings, of which number only 600 have residences for the clergy, and not above one third of them have

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have churches. The defect, therefore, was in those who have neglected to make better provision for the church. There are a vast number of those parishes which are very excellent and productive livings, and are without a church, a glebe house, or a single Protestant, and yet these livings are very eagerly sought after amongst the Protestant Clergy as sinecures. If these deficiencies were removed (and the means are within view,) and care taken to propagate the Protestant doctrines, there can be little doubt the success would be rapid in a very short time. Another thing must also be done; namely, to make it safe for a Protestant to reside in those districts, many of which there are in Ireland, in which no Protestant but a man of fortune and influence dare take up his abode, without risque to his life, or at least danger to his person. Nay, there are very extensive tracts in that country on which there is not even a Protestant day-labourer to be found; for if any such should venture to live there, he would immediately have his ears cropt. The great defect is, that the law has never been fully carried into effect, and the Catholic Bishops are entirely the cause, as by their influence they excite antipathies against the laws and against the English; thereby keep alive divisions, in order to prevent the desertion of their followers. All Protestants are described by them as Heretics, and Englishman and Heretic are in their language synonimous terms. In fact, no Englishman or Protestant can be safe in Ireland, if the prayer of this Petition is granted, except, indeed, in the North, where the Protestants are more numerous, and consequently protection more certain to British and Protestant inhabitants. As a further proof of the implacable antipathies and intolerant spirit towards Protestants inculcated by the Catholic Clergy into the minds of the lower orders of their community, it is a well known fact, that Protestant servants are driven from Protestant families, as the Catholic servants, who are always

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most numerous, will not suffer a Protestant to live amongst them. I myself know a Protestant Bishop who was obliged to dismiss all his Protestant servants, as he could get no Catholic servants in that part or the country who would live with them.Even the poorer order of Protestants in the city of Dublin cannot get their children apprenticed as servants in the families of Protestant gentleman on this account, and are therefore obliged to rear them up to handicraft trades. For this state of things, my Lords, there can be no effectual remedy so long as a Catholic Hierarchy are suffered to rule there. Nor will that Hierarchy ever be contented, if you accede to this measure, until they are in possession of the revenues as well as of the first dignities of the church; for having got the length of this measure it is not to be supposed they will rest satisfied without going much farther. My Lords, I put this question to one of them. How can you hope to succeed in obtaining the objects you seek? and his answer was, "the same perseverance that obtained for us all the rest will procure us this also." This, my Lords, was also the language of a counsel of their religion, who, I fancy, is pretty eminent at the bar, and whose name I observe as signed to that petition. My Lords, I again assert that so long as the Catholic Hierarchy are unabolished in Ireland, you must consider the great bulk of the Irish Catholics as not amenable to the laws. My Lords, those men always did and always will resist the laws. To them it is owing that the reformation has made so little progress, and to their influence all the ruinous consequences that have followed in Ireland. My Lords, though you must necessarily keep a strong hand upon the Catholics of Ireland, it does not follow that you should abandon the Protestants of Ireland. I have no objection, my Lords, to any reasonable or safe measure that can tend to conciliate the Catholics. To conciliation I have ever been a Friend. But I cannot consent to such

such a measure of conciliation as that proposed by the Noble Baron. My Lords, I will never be deluded under the term of conciliation to transfer the political power of the State into the hands of Catholics, or to increase the power of that Hierarchy, already too great, and from which the Catholics should release themselves: But until they are put into a different situation, until they cease to be slaves to that body who made them so, you cannot think them worthy to participate fully with you the privileges they seek.

The LORD CHANCELLOR, observing the lateness of the hour, (two o'clock) declared that he thought it would be more convenient to their Lordships to adjourn than to continue a debate which was likely to engage their attention several hours longer.

Lord HAWKESBURY had no objection to the adjournment, provided the question was put specifically as to the time of resuming the debate. If it was put in general and indefinite terms, it should have his decided negative.

Earl DARNLEY proposed that their Lordships should adjourn the Question to Monday next.

A Division was then called for, but their Lordships did not divide.

On the doors being opened for the re-admission of Strangers,

The Earl of LIMERICK was on his legs speaking against the motion, which he opposed at considerable length, and upon the same general grounds of other Noble Lords, who argued that the concessions claimed by the Catholics were repugnant to the principles of the Constitution as established at the Revolution, and would be subversive of the Protestant establishment in Ireland, and consequently lead to a separation of the two countries. But whatever might be proper at other times, and under other circumstances, in the opinions of other Noble Lords, he had vainly hoped that on the inexpe

diency of bringing the measure forward at this time, there could be but one sentiment entertained. With respect the late rebellion in Ireland, it was certainly true that many of the principal persons concerned in that business were not Catholics. Lord Edward Fitzgerald was no Catholic, Mr. Emmet and Mr. Tone were Protestants, and General Arthur O'Connor himself was a deacon, sworn in the presence of the Noble Earl's father; but those circumstances were not sufficient to establish with him the innocent intentions of the adherents of the Romish faith.

Earl CARYSFORT, as soon ashis Lordship concluded, pointed out to their Lordships the great impropriety of either continuing the debate to a most extraordinary late hour, or else coming to a division without hearing the sentiments of many Noble Lords who wished to deliver their opinion on the subject. In this he was supported by Lord GRENVILLE, the Marquis of BUCKINGHAM, and Earl DARNLEY.

Lord MULGRAVE was against the adjournment past this morning.

The Earl of DERBY thought Monday would be most convenient to many Noble Lords who had other duties to attend to.

Lord HAWKESBURY then agreed to the proposition.

The question was then put and carried nem. dis, Adjourned to Monday.

MONDAY, MAY 13.

The order of the day being read for resuming the debate adjourned from Friday last,

The EARL of SUFFOLK began." I rise, my "I Lords, to state the sentiments which occur to me, on the best consideration. I have been able to give this important question; and in support of the vote which I this night mean to give. My Lords, if I rightly understand the Petition on your table, it goes

to