communicated also. The man, however, being a person with whom many held communication-it was reported to the Bishop, and above two hundred persons, men and women, were summoned from a distance of twenty miles, to answer for their contumacy—they obeyed: but, some how, the Bishop was so appeased as not to impose upon them the sentence of excommunication. He, however, inflicted a pennance, and they received absolution upon the condition, that each should take a pilgrimage of thirty miles round the country, from one place called an Holywell to another, with a label on their breasts, specifying the crime for which the pennance was imposed. Things of a similar nature frequently happen in Ireland; and such are the fears they inspire, that the influence of the clergy is almost unbounded. I do assert, that there is much greater power exercised over their community by the Roman Catholic clergy in Ireland, than those of any other nation in Europe. Before the Reformation, this pow er was under some controul of the laws; but from that time all controul has ceased, except through an appeal to Rome; but what persecuted Catholic will resort to it? They dissolve marriages without any lawful authority, on account of consanguinity, and often in a way to affect the legitimacy of children, and their birth-rights, in succession to property. After the Révolution, in that part of Ireland not subject to English law, the Roman Catholic Bishops retained their sees and revenues. In the reign of Elizabeth they were in some degree reduced; many were restored in the reign of Charles I. but the army of Cromwell crushed them; and from that time to this they still retain the titles, in the same denominations as the Protestant clergy, contrary to law. They are a body, too, who tyrannize over the rest of the Catholics, differing from all the rest of Europe; nor can any peace be kept in Ireland so long as they remain unabolished; for to their influence is owing all the misconduct of their flock. The state

of

of the Roman Catholics in England is quite different, as I have witnessed in parts of the country where I have lived among them, and where, if any difference was distinguishable in their conduct, it was that they were the best behaved men in the country. In Ireland it is quite the reverse. The relaxation in favour of the Catholics of this country was in consequence of their good behaviour; but those of Ireland, on the contrary, boast that they obtained their objects by their energy and perseverance, and will persist in the pursuit until they finally attain their ends. It is in human nature that those persons should be eager to possess the revenues belonging to their titular rank. I see something in that Petition like disclaiming such objects. But have any of the Roman Catholic Hierarchy disclaimed it? It is my wish to give to the Catholic community in Ireland, every fair indulgence that can tend to promote their tranquillity; but the very first step to this should be the abolition of the Catholic Hierarchy. This I hold to be indispensibly requisite to the quiet of the country. In other countries of Europe, 'tis said, Catholics possess every right and privilege, whether the Government be Protestant or Catholic. This, however, may be the result of treaty, or compact, in the conquest or cession of territory; but the case is totally different in Ireland. - If the Catholic Hierarchy were abolished, something might be done to conciliate the Catholic body; and to the generality of them, I am confident, the abolition of the Hierarchy would be a measure extremely grateful. I have heard of a province, where the inferior clergy, one and all, deprecated the appointment of a bishop amongst them. In Canada, where the Roman Catholic religion was established by treaty, the clergy and people desired no more than the exercise of their religion, but expressed great sorrow when a bishop was sent to preside over them, I am persuaded, the abolition of the Catholic Hierarchy in Ireland would extremely gratify that com

munity;

munity; and I know many reputable and intelligent Catholics in Ireland who have told me they would be glad to get rid of them. One thing is certain, that no information can be got from individuals of the community, so long as the influence of the bishops prevails; for they forbid all intercourse with Protestants. Á reputable person told me, some time ago, he was prohibited such intercourse under pain of excommunication; and the Catholic servants of a gentleman in my own neighbourhood, were obliged, by their clergy, to quit him, because they had joined the family in prayer. Dr. Hussey, a Catholic bishop, gave no other reason for this conduct than that the prayers were read by an heretic; and this learned and liberal Doctor, who was afterward actively concerned in that Union formed in Ireland, under the auspices of France, and having for its object, separation from this country, issued orders to all the parish priests of his diocese, to guard against such practices in the future. If order were established in that country by the means I suggest, the Catholic community would appear in a very different light; the place of the bishops might be filled by persons not exactly in the capacity of their successors, but as superintendants of districts. I know, that among the higher order of Catholics there are two different sects, the one the ancient families, who possess hereditary fortunes; the other, new men, who have obtained wealth, of late, by other means. Of the former, I know many worthy men, and particularly a Noble Earl, than whom I know no gentleman of more distinguished loyalty or moderation when left to himself; but the influence of others has sometimes a tendency not redounding much to the amiability of his character; the other sect are those the most anxious for political power and influence. Whatever may be done for the Catholic community, in the way to which I allude, the proposition should come from the Catholics themselves, whenever they feel disposed to part with

their Hierarchy. That change produced, many concessions might more safely follow. Then, and not till then, can you make any farther concessions: In every well-governed country it is necessary that the political power should be in the hands of those who possses the property; and this is the reason why you have excluded from power persons having no property; otherwise, if power was in the hands of the majority, property would soon change hands. This will be the case if you grant power to the majority of a population hostile to your establishment; for in proportion to their number, so will be their eagerness to obtain power; and though there might be no danger in England from such an arrangement as is proposed, yet in Ireland the case is quite different, where the numbers are so much greater than the Protestant, and where the object would certainly be to make the Roman Catholic the Established Religion. You cannot therefore grant those claims, without violating your pledge to the Protestants of Ireland, to the Constitution of the country, and the Family on the Throne, or from the positive law of our ancestors, which positively excludes Roman Catholic successors to the Throne. My Lords, a similar principle has prevailed in other countries, where the succession is by law required to be Protestant. The late King of Sardinia complained that his subjects excluded him from the throne, without asking him whether he was willing to change his religion from Catholic to Protestant? But he was excluded in the first instance, because a Roman Catholic; and upon the same principle it is, my Lords, that the Government of this country cannot be executed by Catholics, according to the law, which has settled that the powers of the Government are to be vested only in a Protestant King and Protestant Establishment of both Church and State. With respect to the Roman Catholics of this country, my Lords, I have had long intimacies with many most respectable families of that persuasion; and from what I know of them, I should

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I should be chearfully disposed to extend to thein every degree of toleration consistent with the security of a Protestant succession. Some years ago it was in contemplation, in 1778, to make some concessions to the Catholics of England, and in order thereto an oath was proposed to them, by way of test, binding their allegiance to his Majesty, his heirs and successors: but the words, being Protestants, were objected to by some of their clergy, and it seemed hard upon Catholics to bind themselves against a Catholic King, if such should ever succeed to the Throne. However, the Catholics themselves, notwithstanding the objections of their clergy, observed that the oath as it stood, without the words which all Protestants were bound to, was a mere mockery, and they proposed to take the oath in its full and usual form as they would have taken on the first instance, but for the influence of their clergy, which unfortunately prevailed at the moment, and they themselves in many instances complained of the tyrannical cruelty that obliged them to refuse it. Some alterations were even proposed to them, but they said they would not abandon an iota of the oath to which they had pledged themselves; and their Apostolical Vicar, to avoid creating schisms amongst his flock, agreed to it. But Dr. Hussey, whom I have before mentioned, not only preached, but wrote a pamphlet in Ireland, against the oath, in which he argued, that it would be monstrous to call upon Catholics to swear that they would not be faithful to a British Sovereign, if that Sovereign should happen to be of the same faith with themselves, and in consequence of this, the Irish Catholics refused the oath. I could, my Lords, state many other instances to shew, that a material difference exists between the political sentiments of the English Catholics, and those of Ireland, although their religious faith be one and the same, and liable to the same influence from the Pope of Rome, which, if we consider the

notorious