independence of the country were con- | against the former house tax. The small cerned, objections vanished. In fact, it assessment of great houses would once was almost analogous to the impressment of seamen. But both of these extreme methods of providing for public safety or public credit ought to be reserved for a great occasion, and should be limited to the exigency which called them forth; more especially we ought not to involve ourselves blindfold in a system of perpetuation under cover of a periodical renewal, without some attempt at a revision to see how a tax like this could be made just and equitable. The system of a property tax was even more dangerous when renewed for only a short period, because at every renewal, the Government, in order to induce Parliament to assent to its demand, must make sacrifices of other taxes, not because they disapproved of them, but because they were unpopular. This sacrifice was the more galling, because if these taxes had not been reduced, the country might have expected to have obtained, if not the remission of the whole burden of the income tax, at least the reconsideration of the most oppressive portions of it. How has this tax been already dealt with since its introduction by Sir Robert Peel? It was proposed for three years, and we had it for nine; it was estimated to produce less than 4,000,000l. a year, and it had produced above 5,000,000l.; the Government asked for 11,000,000l., and had got 49,000,000l.; and yet it was now to be again renewed. And why? Because we had been in the meanwhile busy in repealing various indirect taxes. No doubt, 1842 presented a case of financial emergency; but, saying nothing of 1842 or 1845, it was impossible to deny that if we persevered after the fashion of 1848 no one could ever see any end to the continuance of the income tax. He thought that as a surplus arose, it would have been wiser to have mitigated the oppressive parts of the property tax, instead of taking off taxes which were hardly felt. Government proposed now to commute the window tax for a house tax; as long as the house tax was less than the window tax, people might perhaps be pretty well satisfied with the exchange; but the noble Lord and his friends knew very well that the repeal of the former house tax was forced upon a most reluctant Government; and when the new house tax got fully into play, we should have the same agency brought again into action, and probably with the same success, as in the case of the agitation Lord Monteagle more be produced as a grievance. Great He noble Friend were rapidly approaching, | under the land and assessed taxes, and that and that next year Parliament might the general body of the Commissioners determine that this tax should be alto- should be allowed a voice in the matter. gether discontinued. He wished before Now the difficulty in the case of the income he sat down to call their Lordships' atten- tax arose from the fact that it had been tion to a singular fact. They had heard considered, and in his opinion justly conin the Speech from the Throne, and it was sidered, necessary that a strict secrecy not denied on either side of the House, should be preserved with regard to the inthat the agricultural interest was at pre- comes of individuals, so that they should sent suffering the greatest depression; not be exposed to the disadvantage of havwhile they had been told to-night that the ing the exact amount which they paid as interests of productive industry, as repre- income tax exposed to the public; and in sented by trade and manufactures, were, order to preserve that secrecy the Act of on the contrary, flourishing. Now, it was Parliament nominated seven Commissionin some measure a demonstration of the ers out of the general body of Commissionevils incident to the property tax, that that ers of Land and Assessed Taxes, to whom tax upon agricultural property, even in a appeals should be made in the first instance, time of distress, had gone on augmenting, with the opportunity of a further appeal to while the amount of the same tax derived a Special Commission. He was afraid that, from other descriptions of property-trades, consistently with the object of having the professions, and commercial profits, had income tax at all, more could not be done diminished, although they were told those without the risk of interfering with that interests were most prosperous. He would secrecy which it was agreed, on all hands, take the comparison of two years. In 1843 ought to be maintained. With regard to the amount of property assessed to the in- the observations of his noble Friend who come tax under Schedule A, which, how-had last addressed their Lordships, he ever, he admitted, comprehended mills, build- (Earl Grey) certainly was not going to exings, and other things besides land, was press any great difference of opinion from 85,000,000l., and in 1850 it had risen to him in regard to his objections to the in94,000,000l. He found that the property come tax as a peace tax. He had expressassessed under Schedule D, which included ed his views upon that subject very strongly all the interests admitted to be most pros-in 1842, and he still continued to entertain perous, had fallen off from 63,000,000l. them; but he was bound to say at the same in 1843, to 54,000,0007. in 1850. This time that experience had convinced him had taken place concurrently with an in- that the immense advantage which had crease in the official value of exports from been gained to the country by means of 131,000,000l. in 1843, to 190,000,000l. this income tax was well worth the sacriin 1849, and an increase in the value fice which had been undergone for it. His of imports from 70,000,000l. in 1843, to noble Friend said that the income tax had 105,000,000l. in 1849. How was this to been calculated to produce 3,700,000l. for be accounted for, unless by an unjust as- three years, and that instead of that it had sessment or levy of the tax? He considered actually produced 5,500,000l. for a period that the general financial condition of the of nine years. Now, he (Earl Grey) concountry was satisfactory; but he thought fessed it was the very productiveness of the they ought carefully to consider whether a tax which was one of the great reasons for tax of the nature of the property tax should reconciling him to it. When the imposibe continued upon light grounds, and es- tion of this tax was first proposed, he pecially upon a principle which extended thought it hardly worth while to submit to to its perpetuation, or whether they should a scheme for increasing the revenue of the not reserve these extraordinary resources country so objectionable in its character, for great and important exigencies. and so offensive in its mode of operation EARL GREY said, he merely rose for for the sake of 3,700,000l. of revenue; but the purpose of alluding to the remarks when they came to consider the very much which had been made by the noble Lord larger revenue derived by means of the inopposite with regard to the alleged griev-come tax, and that they had been enabled ance in the mode of assessing the income tax. The noble Lord complained of surcharges on the part of the surveyors, and he said that there ought to be some remedy in cases of these surcharges, as there was VOL. CXVI. [THIRD SERIES.] by its aid to make reforms in our general financial system, these were results which were calculated to alter his original opinions on the subject. He had heard with extreme surprise from the noble Lord op 2 N posite, that the imposition of the income tax had only enabled them to get rid of taxes, the relief from which was felt by no one LORD STANLEY explained, that his remarks had reference only to the reduction of the duties on the two articles of coffee and timber during the present Session of Parliament. EARL GREY would afterwards allude to the case of the duties on coffee and timber, but with regard to the past, he must remind the House of the statements already made by the noble Marquess near him, which seemed to him the most conclusive proof of the advantage which had been derived from the change in our commercial policy. The noble Marquess told the House that taxes had been removed since 1842 to no less an amount than 10,000,000l., and, putting the income tax out of the question, we had only lost in revenue by that large remission of taxation, about 7,000,000l. While the public had suffered this diminution of revenue, they had gained, not 10,000,000l. but as he (Earl Grey) believed, very nearly 20,000,000l., by the reduction of taxation; because, if they took into consideration the incidental disadvantages connected with those taxes which had been repealed their pressure upon industry, their unequal distribution, and various other matters, he believed they would not be overstating that relief at 20,000,000l., instead of 10,000,000l.; this enormous relief having been purchased at the trifling amount of 7,000,000l. His noble Friend who spoke last had gone into the question of the taxes which had the best claims to be abolished, and he had mentioned various taxes which he thought had been injudiciously remitted. He (Earl Grey) would not follow him into the general subject, but he must allude to one of those taxes which had been referred to, he meant the stamp tax. He owned he was surprised to hear his noble Friend, with his great experience, say that the alteration in the stamp duty was not worth the sacrifice of income which it entailed. He was afraid it was the fate of all Governments, and of all Chancellors of the Exchequer, to receive little more than censure in return for their exertions in the public service; but it was not thanks that they must look to as a reward. What they looked to was to be of use to the public; and considering the matter in that light, he would say that the remission of the stamp tax was well worth the sacrifice which it involved. For the schedule Earl Grey of the stamp duties was full of injustice and inequality; it pressed upon small transactions in a manner which rendered them very frequently impossible, and it presented obstructions in the way of a ready transfer of property, which was the life-blood of a commercial country. Now by the sacrifice of a small amount, they had put the stamp duties on a footing of fairness and equality; and at the same time it appeared, from reports received from solicitors and others throughout the country acquainted with the subject, that the effect had been to relieve transactions, and especially those of persons in the humbler ranks, to an extent of, which it was difficult to estimate the importance. They might not perceive at once the full benefit of the change, but they might depend upon it every obstruction that they took away from the free career of enterprise and industry would be paid for at no distant period; and he believed that among the measures which had been passed with that object, few had been more beneficial than that which effected a change in the stamp duties. The noble Lord opposite must have misunderstood the remarks of his noble Friend when he represented the proposals of Her Majesty's Government as implying a determination gradually to get rid of duties on Customs, and to trust entirely to direct taxation. His noble Friend had expressly guarded himself against that interpretation, and he (Earl Grey) was at a loss to know where the noble Lord could have found any ground for it. But he might be allowed to point out the real principle of those measures. He considered that the object had been not to get rid of Customs duties, as distinguished from direct taxes, but to get rid of those taxes, whether Customs or Excise, which were obstructions to the industry of the country; and a very large portion of the revenue which the income tax had enabled them to sacrifice, had been derived, not from the Customs, but from the Excise, as for instance the duties on glass and bricks. There never were two taxes more wisely and judiciously repealed; and he would venture to say, there never were two taxes the removal of which had proved more beneficial in giving an impulse to industry. Their Lordships knew what a brilliant display the glass manufacturers were now making in this metropolis. The improvement in glass manufacture in this very city had been something almost inconceivable, and it dated from the time when the exciseman was taken out of the glasshouse. The duty of those gentlemen that any disadvantage on bricks had been repealed still more re- could result to them from this measure. cently, and in one single year improvements And the reason was plain. Ceylon alone and modifications had taken place in their produced a larger quantity of coffee than manufacture, on the extent of which it this country consumed; and, in such a would be difficult to speculate. As a land- state of things, it was evident that protecowner himself, and one therefore who felt tion must be valueless, for there must the pressure of the times, he would state be always a surplus. But, on the other his belief that no tax could have been hand, the reduction of the duty would be removed from the owner and occupier of of infinite value to the Ceylon planter, beland more beneficially than the tax on cause it would extend the consumption, bricks; even living, as he did, in a county and increase the total amount produced. where stone was very plentiful, the advan- Then the noble Lord complained that the tage had been great, for it was obvious Government refused to do what was really that where what the owners and occupiers wanting for the interests of the planter by of land had to trust to was improvement, checking the adulteration of coffee, and he facilities for building were of the greatest secmed to imply that the adulteration was possible importance. With regard to the rather favoured than otherwise by Her taxes which it was proposed should be al-Majesty's Government. He (Earl Grey) tered in the present year, the noble Lord thought, if the noble Lord had looked found great fault with the repeal of the more closely, he would have found the real duties upon coffee and upon timber. In fact to be, that the Government did not the first place, he had stated that no ad- favour the adulteration of coffee, but that vantage had been derived from the reduc- both the present Administration and the tion of the duty upon timber. Now, on two which had preceded it, felt that pracSaturday last, he (Earl Grey) had been tically it was totally impossible by legisla-, reading a circular of one of the most emi- tive restriction or interference by excisenent houses on the state of the wood trade, men to prevent that adulteration. He was in reference to the reduction which had afraid that adulteration was not confined been practically in operation for some to the article of coffee alone, but was too weeks. And, first, with regard to colonial common in many other things. He had timber, the circular stated that no re- been shown a certain kind of chalk or limeduction had taken place in its price. stone, the other day, at the Museum of That result he fully anticipated, because Economic Geology, and upon asking what for some years our imports of colonial it was used for, he was informed that it timber had been confined to timber was principally employed to adulterate the of peculiar qualities, with which Baltic best Durham mustard. He thought the timber came very slightly in competi- truth was, that with regard to adulteration, so that the alteration had not af- tion, the only remedy lay in the hands of fected colonial timber at all, and therefore the consumer, who, if he took care to deal had done no mischief to the Colonies. But only with respectable tradesmen, would not the reduction in the price of Baltic tim- be given an adulterated article. But as ber in some kinds of wood had been far as the present measure went, it was two-thirds, in others one-half, of the duty calculated to check the system of adulterataken off, while, in some other kinds of tion, for every thing which diminished the wood, the falling price was equivalent to price of real coffee would make it less prothe whole of the duty remitted. He be-fitable to adulterate that which was sold lieved that that was a result even more to the public, and in that way he thought satisfactory than the Chancellor of the Exchequer had ventured to expect. Then, with regard to coffee, the noble Lord stated that the reduction of duty would be injurious to the Colonies. He (Earl Grey) had had some communications with gentlemen who were interested in the colonial produce of coffee, and though he knew it was not common for persons engaged in any particular trade to recognise the advantages of a reduction of protection, he might say that he had not heard from any the reduction of duty would be attended with very great advantage, and he thought that was in every way a better system for the advantage of the poor consumer than a system which would require the constant visits of the exciseman to every grocer's shop throughout the country. He would only add, in reference to the observations of his noble Friend who spoke last (Lord Monteagle), on the wisdom of establishing so important a tax as the income tax for the space of a single year, that he entirely concurred in those observations. He cer- | dence taken upon it; and it appeared that tainly thought that it was a most dangerous restriction, but their Lordships were aware that it was one for which Her Majesty's Government were not responsible. On Question, agreed to: Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the whole House To-morrow. House adjourned till To-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Monday, May 19, 1851. MINUTES.] NEW WRIT.-For Clackmannan and Kinross, v. Sir William Morrison, deceased. PUBLIC BILLS.-1° Woods, Forests, &c.; New Forest Deer Removal, &c. 2o Gunpowder Stores (Liverpool) Exemption Repeal. DINGLE WORKHOUSE-PROSELYTISM. MR. REYNOLDS said, he had given notice that it was his intention to ask the right hon. Baronet the Chief Secretary for Ireland a question respecting the investigation held in the Dingle workhouse, county of Kerry-namely, whether the Protestant chaplain and other paid officials, alleged to have bribed Catholic paupers to become Protestants, were still continued in their respective appointments? He wished also to know whether Sir Thomas Ross, one of the parties arraigned, was still retained in the pay of the Poor Law Commissioners? Whether the Rev. Mr. Lewis and the Rev. Mr. Goodman were retained as chaplains of the workhouse? And whether two men named Lacy and Leitch, Bible-readers, and officers in connection with the workhouse, were still retained there? He asked these questions of the right hon. Baronet in his capacity as Secretary for Ireland, and not as a Poor Law Commissioner. SIR WILLIAM SOMERVILLE replied that the hon. Gentleman had asked him a great many questions of which he had not given notice in the notice paper, and some of the questions were very difficult to answer without entering largely into the subject to which they referred. He had seen the papers relating to these transactions, which were themselves of a very recent date; and the correspondence regarding it had not yet been completed. He believed that a complaint had been made by the Roman Catholic chaplain that money had been distributed by the Protestant chaplain to persons in the workhouse. An inquiry was ordered by the Poor Law Commissioners into this circumstance, and evi money had been distributed-that the Protestant chaplain of the workhouse, the Rev. Mr. Goodman, and his curate were in the habit of distributing money to the Catholic paupers; but it did not appear that this money was distributed for proselytising purposes, and any such intention was denied upon oath by the Rev. Mr. Goodman. There could be no doubt but that such a practice was most objectionable, and that it tended to destroy the discipline of the workhouse, and that it might lead to great evils. The Poor Law Commissioners had therefore addressed a letter to the Rev. Mr. Goodman, in which they insisted that such practices should be discontinued; and upon the answer received by the rev. gentleman would depend what course might be taken. He believed that the charges against the other gentlemen of the establishment had been abandoned. As to Sir Thomas Ross, he had not been for more than a twelvemonth in the employment of the Poor Law Commissioners. MR. REYNOLDS wished to know if there would be any objection to produce the copy of the sworn evidence before Captain Sparkes ? SIR WILLIAM SOMERVILLE said he had no objection to produce it. ECCLESIASTICAL TITLES ASSUMPTION BILL. Order for Committee read. House in Committee; Mr. Bernal in the Chair. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Preamble be postponed. MR. REYNOLDS said, he felt it his. duty to move that Mr. Bernal do now report progress. It would be in the recollection of the Committee, that on the last night that he had the honour of addressing the Chairman of the Committee on this question, there was an unanimous understanding entered into that the Chairman should be permitted or directed to report progress, and that in the interim the noble Lord at the head of the Government would put the Bill in the shape in which he intended to propose it to the House. There was an understanding that he (Mr. Reynolds) and those hon. Members who usually acted with him should not oppose the Motion that Mr. Speaker leave the Chair; and he might say that they had not violated that understanding. He (Mr. Reynolds) might probably leave himself open to a charge of not having violated that un |