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tened in each other's hair; or with their expressions which had been used by an thumbs applied to each other's wind-pipes. hon. Member in the course of the debate How long this struggle is to continue, the other evening. The Members of that I cannot say; but this I am sure of, that House were sent there to do their duty, it will open all the eyes which remain as and one portion of that duty was to give yet closed up; and will at last produce a free expression to their opinion respectfeeling so strong and so unanimous, that ing the conduct of the Ministers of the the factions must flee before it, and leave Crown, without fear of threat or intimi. the way open for liberty and happiness dation (laughter) of any kind whatever. to find their way to the people. With a If he felt called upon to express his opigracious King, and God's blessing, there nion upon the conduct of a Minister, he will be new Parliaments enough; and claimed his right to do so without any about three more elections; or, perhaps, restraint whatever. Were they to forego one more, with wheat at five shillings a the expression of their opinion from the bushel, and fat hogs at six and sixpence fear of being obliged to uphold that opia score, will give us every thing that nion by means of a mortal combat? (A peaceable and loyal subjects can want. laugh). The Chancellor of the ExchePull away, therefore, parties; kick, bite, quer put on a very warlike appearance gouge, leave your heads bald with the the other night, when he demanded of tearing out of hair: you will give no pain the hon. Member for Middlesex to exto any man of sense, by the mortification plain the words he used respecting his which you inflict on one another: as conduct, and he supposed that if the exLord CHATHAM said of the city-usurers, planation of the hon. Member had not "Just in the degree that you sink, the been satisfactory he would have called "spirit of the nation, and the happiness "of the people, will rise."

him out. (Hear). He (Mr. Roebuck) felt bound, on the score of public morals, to call upon the House to deprecate this conduct on the part of a Minister of the Crown, and to shield and defend him (Mr. R.) (laughter) from any such attack, should he be induced to express

As a specimen of what is now going on between the parties, I shall take and insert here a part of the debate of the 23. of March, from which my readers will form a pretty good judgment of the scenes that are now exhibited in the himself strongly in respect to the conHouse of Commons. My readers will see what sort of temper the parties are in; they will see how the time of the House was spent for one evening, at any

rate.

ALLEGED BREACH OF PRIVILEGE BY
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EX-
CHEQUER.

duct of any Minister. He liked to express his opinion, but he did not like to be shot through the head for doing so. (A laugh). And when he considered that the conduct of which he complained was practised by the champion of the church, he must say that he thought that the offence was the greater. He concluded by moving that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in calling on the hon. MemMr. ROEBUCK rose to call the attention ber for Middlesex to retract his opinions of the House to a breach of privilege expressed in that House, was guilty of a which had been committed by the right breach of privilege. (Loud laughter). Or hon. Baronet, the Chancellor of the Ex-if that did not do, he would read the chequer. (Loud laughter). When the letter addressed by the right hon. Baronet Speaker appeared at the bar of the House of Lords, he claimed for the Commons perfect freedom of speech in all their debates. It was of little importance whether that freedom of debate was encroached upon by the Crown, or by a Minister of it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had taken offence at some this evening I understood you to make

to the hon. Member for Middle-ex.

The

hon. and learned gentleman then read the following letter:

"

"House of Commons, March 20, Friday evening.

Sir,-In the course of the debate

use of expressions of which the purport rightly the right hon. Baronet had himwas, that I was pursuing a course in re-self introduced a law making it felony for speet to the measure then under discus- one gentleman to shoot another. sion that was inconsistent with the con- Sir ROBERT PEEL complained that 'the duct of a man of honour. hon. Member had inflicted pain upon

IRISH TITHES.

"Thinking it probable that such ex-with a blunt instrument. (A laugh). ́ ́ pressions fell from you inconsiderately, and in the warmth of debate, I gave you the opportunity of recalling them, by an -appeal to you in the House.

"I could not with propriety pursue the subject further at the time; but I am confident that you will feel that the expressions of which I complain are not consistent with the usages of Parliament, and not warranted by the freedom of debate, - and that you will therefore not hesitate to disavow them as applied to me.

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"I have the honour to be, Sir,
"Your obedient servant,
"ROBERT PEEL."

Joseph Hume, Esq., M.P."
He moved now that the letter be read by
the clerk, and entered on the minutes.
(Laughter).

Lord JoHN RUSSELL gave notice that he would, on Monday next, bring the question of appropriation forward, and that he would on that occasion persevere in his notice for a call of the House. He, therefore, trusted that the right hon. Baronet would not proceed any further in his tithe measure until after that period.

Sir R. PEEL was sorry that the practice was gaining ground of proceeding with motions on supply-nights. But as the noble Lord attached importance to the present motion he should not offer any objection, but protested against this being taken as a precedent; and although it was a matter of the greatest importance that the bill should be got through as quickly as possible, owing to the situation Mr. S. RICE asked if the majority of the of the clergy in reference to the act of House were disposed to entertain such a Parliament, which made it imperative on motion? (Hear). He did not think it the Government to enforce the repaywas either wise or prudent to be personal ment of the instalments, yet he would in debate, but still he could not agree to not proceed with the second reading of the doctrines laid down by the hon. and the bill until after Monday. learned gentleman. This assembly was! After a few words from Lord JOHN certainly not one of gladiators, but still RUSSELL, the report, on the motion of he hoped it was an assembly of gentle. men. (Hear, hear). If an attack was to be made upon the personal honour of members, were they to have no method of vindicating themselves? (Hear).

Sir R. Peel, was brought up.

Mr. HUME said that the investment of any portion of money in land for the benefit of the clergy would, in his opinion, be the greatest misfortune that could beSir ROBERT PEEL said that he was fal the country. This principle was quite sure the hon. Member for Middle- maintained by the last Parliament, and sex did not mean to convey any personal he fully concurred in its wisdom and proimputation against his honour in the observation he made on Friday night, and he felt it due to the hon. Member to give him an opportunity of removing any erroneous impression which might prevail on the subject. If it was the wish of the House he would retire, and leave the matter to its decision. (A laugh).

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priety. He waved, however, his objection upon the understanding that the right honourable Baronet would not proceed another step without giving him an opportunity of doing so.

Mr. GISBORNE inquired whether the clause in reference to the instalments would be introduced in the present bill?

Sir R. PEEL replied in the affirmative.

Mr. O'CONNELL was of opinion that the debt of a million ought to be remitted, and he would most certainly support it, because it would relieve the people of

Ireland from the payment of this money. [occasion told the House that not more With respect to the other part of the bill, than thirty or forty applications were he would tell the right hon. Baronet that made to him for military aid on behalf of it would still leave the people subject to the Protestant clergy, but he (Mr. all the abuses of the tithe system under O'Connor) knew that country better than another pame, because either the landlord the right hon. Baronet. He also knew: or the ecclesiastical commissioner would the doings of the clergy from a tolerably be empowered to distrain for the amount long personal experience, and he would of the tithes. (Hear). They were, there- say that the people would not submit to fore, not advancing one single inch by their grinding oppressions. He would the present bill in the pacification of therefore warn the Government against Ireland; and he now warned them to proceeding with a bill which would not beware, lest by mixing up tithes with rents, as this bill would do, they would not be exciting an opposition against rents as well as tithes.

give satisfaction to the Irish nation, and the failure of which would have the effect of rendering their justice cowardice and their mercy caprice. When other counMr. GISBORNE objected to the clause tries required relief Ministers were the respecting the instalments, on the ground first themselves to yield it. They gave that it was inconsistent with the forms of compensation to purchase the freedom of the House, the right hon. Baronet having the West India slaves; they also gave withdrawn the resolution in committee. redress to the Dissenters, but nothing Sir R. PEEL said he would not persevere if the hon. Member objected, but he would give notice in a committee of supply.

Mr. WARBURTON thought that the bill ought to be presented without the money clauses.

was done voluntarily or graciously for Ireland. (Hear, hear). The House: should bear in mind that the composition was taken when the price of a bushel of wheat was double what it was at present. This composition, therefore, would never be paid. He also observed that it was not the humanity of the clergy that prevented the collection of tithes, but the moral union of the people. Could the House then suppose that when tithe became a stock-jobbing fund it could be collected by any set of adventurous speculators who might enlist under the banners of the church ?

Mr. F. O'CONNOR objected altogether, as he ever should do, to the principle of the bill. The honourable Member for the University (Lefroy) would recollect the discussion which took place in the House, immediately after the death of the Rev. Mr. Fergusson, and he (Mr. O'Connor) would appeal to him whether he did not then state that the question was not so Sir H. HARDINGE hoped the hon. Mem much one of amount as the oppression ber would not consider that he was treatmade of collection. He (Mr. O'Connor) ing him with disrespect; but he was sure objected last year to the measure of mak- the House would not expect that he ing the land chargeable with the amount should answer the speech of the hon. of tithes in the shape of tax or any other Member, as the army estimates were fixed form; he felt the same objection now, for this evening. This, however, in jus for he would assure the House that, if the tice to the Irish clergy, he would say, that: present bill once became law, every indi- he had received several letters from cler vidual connected with the levying of so gymen in Ireland objecting to recover obnoxious an impost, be it in the shape their tithes by an armed force, and ex-· of a rent-charge or otherwise, from the pressing their wish to accept of any sum meanest process-server to the highest rather than have recourse to such extre dignitary of the church, would be subject mities. (Hear, hear).

to the odium attendant on its collection. Mr. FINN made some observations Would then, he would ask, the House which were not intelligible in the galpermit such a system to be pursued?lery.

The right hon. Baronet, who had been for

Mr. DIVETT would oppose, by every

a short time in Ireland, had on a former means which the forms of the House

would permit, the clause exempting the the present misery and wretchedness in clergy of Ireland from the repayment of Ireland must fall. the million.

Sir SAMUEL WHALLEY could not agree with the hon. Member for Dublin, or the hon. Member for Cork, who proposed that the million should be remitted to the Irish clergy, and who now appeared in the character of advocates of that reverend body, stating that all contributions would be thankfully received. As an English representative he protested against any clause which would remit this money, because it was not lent to the poor people of Ireland, but to the clergy of a rich and bloated church. He wished that the question had been settled before the army estimates came before the House, and before troops should be voted to uphold this

church.

Mr. SHAW denied that either with respect to this or any other measure his opinion had of late undergone any change; and, with great respect, did not think the hon. Member who had just sat down understood any one of the tithe bills that had been introduced to the House.

Sir H. HARDINGE said he had never heard such vulgar impudence as had been uttered by the hon. Member for Waterford. (Cries of Order, and great uproar).

Mr. BARRON treated the gallant Gentleman's exclamation with the most utter

contempt. (Immense confusion).

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said some few words, but was inaudible.

Sir H. HARDINGE thought he should Mr. SHEIL declared himself strongly be unworthy of the position he then held against the remission of the million sterlin the House did he not at once pronounce the hon. Gentleman's charge totally uning to the Irish clergy. founded and untrue.

Sir ROBERT PEEL hoped honourable Members would not judge that and other questions at that moment, as the proper time for the consideration of them would soon arrive.

Mr. BARRON believed in his conscience

the charge to be true, and that no other motive but the love of place had wrought so great a change in the present Govern

ment.

Mr. BARRON said it was astonishing The SPEAKER said the freedom of dehow right hon. Gentlemen's opinions had changed with their situations and places, bate could not be better preserved than especially those of the right hon. Baronet by the observance of decorum, and could the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and never be at a greater distance than when honourable Members allowed themselves the gallant Secretary for Ireland, who, on the 30. of July, 1834, declared that to use expressions which they must afteruntil the Government had vindicated the wards repent of. The words or expreslaw, the landlords of Ireland could not in sions employed by the hon. Member for justice be called upon to take the payWaterford ought not, in his (the Speaker's) ment of tithes upon themselves. Their judgment, to have been used, and he refriends in the House of Lords had re-gretted that he had not interfered earlier jected a measure which would have satis-than he had done. As those expressions fied the people of Ireland, and rendered were offensive as applied against the it unnecessary to have again come down House, he hoped the hon. Member would to the House; and it was on account of at once retract them. that rejection that the people of England were called upon to pay the million. (Cries of Oh, oh). The House was told the chief recommendation of the present bill was, that it was so very like the last, and therefore that the Whigs could not oppose it, as it was the very child of their own. But he maintained that the men who had rejected that last bill were guilty of the murders at Rathcormac, and that upon their heads and those of their friends

Mr. BARRON said he never spoke of any individual in particular, but of the Government, and therefore (we understood him) did not think there was need for apology. (Loud cries of Order, order).

An Hon. MEMBER, in the name of his constituents, declared that with regard to this measure the Government pursued a course of procedure in gross dereliction of their former principles.

The SPEAKER here made some observa

tions, the purport of which we could not | hon. Members to consider what question catch. was then before the House.

Mr. BARRON regretted that he had made use of any expression offensive to the House, and retracted it.

Sir H. HARDINGE had not the slightest objection in saying that since the hon. Member had withdrawn those expressions, he also sincerely regretted that he had been too warm upon the moment.

Colonel EVANS said, that several transactions had taken place, particularly within the last two or three days, to induce him to think that the conduct of the present Ministers had been discreditable to them in their public character. In the question now before the House there was a total dereliction from previous principle; and as " 'confidence" was so often Colonel EVANS, totally divested of all spoken of, he really should like to know personal application, entirely concurred to what part of the House the Govern in the charge made by the hon. Member for Waterford against the Government of conduct for the last six or eight years, ment could appeal to, looking at their a political dereliction of principle. As he and comparing it with their present. had used very strong expressions on the Was the appeal made to hon. Members hustings with regard to their conduct, he who sat behind the Treasury bench in the now took the opportunity of repeating corner? Was it to the Gentlemen who them in the House, as a sort of bravado had so long resisted the claims of the appeared to him to have been used to Dissenters that the Government who had frighten hon. Members from declaring just brought forward its relief bill could their sentiments upon the point. He must could appeal with confidence? Was it be allowed to say, the right. hon. Baronet the Secretary for Ireland had no just right to have recourse to such means, which he had used in the case of Lord Londonderry. When the original motion was brought forward nothing was uttered offensive to the personal character of the noble Marquis, yet————

An hon. MEMBER rose to order, and ventured to ask whether the subject just introduced had any reference to Irish tithes? (Hear, hear).

Mr. W. W. WYNN most distinctly said, he considered it contrary to the first order of the House to refer to words spoken in a former debate. (Hear).

The SPEAKER concurred in the correctness of the right honourable gentleman's opinion.

66
to the section

haps it was to the "expediency men," they appealed? Perpersons who, like themselves turned round to comply with, as they termed it, the expediency of the moment? But the present Government's days were numbered, and he believed the country had seen all the reforms they would grant it.

Sir HENRY HARDINGE thought that when the House recollected his relationship and intimate connexion with the Marquis of Londonderry as a soldier, they would feel him entitled to express himself ready to vindicate that nobleman's private honour.

Colonel EVANS said it did not occur to him that the word "vindicate " had been used by the gallant Member, but he Col. EVANS said that reference to past thought he had assumed a more hostile debates was matter of every day occur- disposition. But he (Colonel Evans) prorence; but what he complained of was, tested against the continuance of that that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman system (hear, hear), against the gallant did, a night or two ago, unnecessarily secretary's getting up and saying, "If advert to a previous debate, and took any hon. Member had said so and so I upon himself unprovokedly and most gra- would have done so and so." The galtuitously to declare, that if anybody dur-lant officer had no occasion to prove his ing that previous debate had used any valour, for his character stood high; but words discreditable to the character of the he begged leave to tell him that those noble Marquis he should have felt himself sort of expressions were no great proofs called upon to defend him. of valour. (Hear, hear).

The SPEAKER felt it most expedient for

Mr. J. GRATTAN hoped the debate

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