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through the House carrying out that part of the agreement, and it failed in the Senate simply for lack of time.

Mr. PUTNAM. I can only say for myself, on behalf of the authors and publishers we have to do with, that I had no knowledge of such an agreement.

Representative CURRIER. But you did accept that proposition before the committee acted upon it? Mr. PUTNAM. Are you speaking to me individually? Representative CURRIER. Yes.

Mr. PUTNAM. I would not raise an issue with you, but if I did, it has dropped from my memory.

Representative CURRIER. As I understood, you agreed to the bill as it passed the House, with an understanding. That same understanding was had when we passed the bill in reference to the St. Louis Exposition, and Mr. Tawney introduced a bill at that time to carry out the understanding.

Mr. PUTNAM. I can only say my memory as to any understanding differs from yours.

Representative CURRIER. My memory may be in fault.

Mr. PUTNAM. I had no idea the two things were connected in any way at all.

Mr. FEENEY. I would like to reply to Mr. Putnam, for the bookbinders.

Mr. HALE. I desire to concur with Mr. Putnam's views as to the affidavit. I think it is wholly unnecessary and very bad policy to them and unfair to the publishers in every sense.

Representative LEGARE. What is the objection to that?

Mr. Hale. One objection is that we have to publish to the world what particular house prints our book. If we attempt to enforce our copyright in court, we have to prove it is enforced in accordance with the domestic copyright. Suppose we fall into disfavor with some of the labor unions and they put us on the unfair list. You can see what might happen. It is not necessary. It is not needed. It has no effect when it is complied with. It is merely one added point, one more link in the armor by which a copyright may be lost. That is the trouble with the present copyright law. It is too easy to lose a copyright.

STATEMENT OF MR. ROBERT UNDERWOOD JOHNSON, SECRETARY

OF THE AMERICAN AUTHORS' COPYRIGHT LEAGUE.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Chairman, I might recall to you that I am the secretary of the American Authors' Copyright League. This is an occasion of surprises. Coming to this meeting, I had for the moment an impression that I was attending a meeting for the revision of the tariff and not a conference on the subject of copyright, the question of wages abroad as compared with wages here.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Johnson, I would not take any more time of the committee to discuss that question. Speak on whatever point to which you desire to address yourself.

Mr Joinson. I desire to ask a question. Mr. Hale gives the impression that there is something in the copyright bill which provides that the illustrations of a book shall be manufactured in this country. I think I am right in my inference, Mr. Hale.

It was

Mr. HALE. I think you will find it in clause 16 of the Smoot bill.

Mr. Johnson. I desire to point out in a very few words how absolutely absurd that will be. The Century Company will print in the fall a volume by Robert Hichens on the “Spell of Egypt.” The illustrations for that were made by an American artist, Mr. Guerin, in Egypt. Does anybody presume to say that the illustrations of that book on Egypt ought to be made on Pennsylvania avenue, or that they should not be made at all, or that, having been made, they should not be entitled to copyright?

That is one of the questions we fought out in 1891, when, under the Sherman amendment extending the manufacturing clause to everything that was protected by copyright, everything was to be manufactured in this country which was protected by copyright. The very announcement of it brought down such a quantity of protest upon the devoted head of the honorable Senator from Ohio that for a moment he was deluged and did not know where he was. absolutely impossible. How is a piece of sculpture, how is a drawing of the Vatican, how is a drawing made by

Representative CURRIER. You do not understand that this bill covers anything of that kind ?

Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Hale said so.
Mr. HALE. You misunderstood me.
Representative CURRIER. There is nothing of the kind.

Mr. GEORGE H. PUTNAM. If I may comment upon Mr. Johnson's argument, it really would bear upon the discussion of this morning.

Representative CURRIER. It refers to illustrations as they are produced by lithographic process, or photo-engraving, or something of that kind; not the illustrations themselves.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Johnson, is that all you have to say?

Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Senator, I desire, whenever I may be able to have the attention of the conference for a little while, to state the position of the American Authors' Copyright League, representing here the primary manufacturers, not the secondary manufacturers-who come here with the assurance of having so much attention-but the primary manufacturers.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, you wish to speak upon the manufacturing clause?

Mr. JOHNSON. I should like to suggest an amendment to the manufacturing clause.

The CHAIRMAN. Perhaps you had better do it right now, Mr. Johnson.

Mr. JOHNSON. The amendment I desire to suggest to the manufacturing clause is embodied in the comparison of the copyright bills which has been sent to every member of this committee and which was made by Mr. Bowker, the vice-president of the American Authors' Copyright League, in such a way as to give a very clear idea at once of the provisions of each of the four bills in comparison.

The amendment I desire to incorporate-and in saying this I speak for the American Authors' Copyright League—is the following: In section 16 of the version I have, which is known as the typesetting clause, the insertion of the words “or the original text of a foreign work of foreign origin in language other than English.

Representative LEGARE. What line is that, Mr. Johnson, and in what bill?

Mr. JOHNSON. This is in the bill which is suggested by our committee.

Mr. GEORGE H. PUTNAM. If Mr. Johnson will excuse me, I think it is on page 8 of the Smoot bill, section 16, line 21.

Mr. Johnson. I am unfortunately unable to refer to the section, because the sections are omitted.

To express clearly at once the significance of this proviso, the the American Authors' Copyright League moves for the abolition of the manufacturing clause as it relates to books in foreign language of foreign origin, not books in foreign languages of American origin. If the governor of Minnesota, for instance, should print in Norwegian his reminiscences, we should not desire to interfere with the publication of that being required in this country by the American typesetters.

The reason for our desiring this is that, unless something is done very soon to restrict the extension of the manufacturing clause, this country is going to suffer very much in the reciprocal relations with other countries. We have a growing trade with South America in text-books, for instance. Some of our text-books, I am informed, have gone into the hundred thousands. They are printed in this country and they are sold throughout South America. The whole manufacturing is done in this country. The composition is by American typesetters. We have pending a treaty, under the signatures of the conferees of the Pan-American Congress, which has been pending for some six years, the passage of which would do more for the American typesetter than all you could put into the copyright bill put together, because it would prevent what is sure to come if this policy of restriction is insisted upon-the forcing of all the other countries to make against us a reciprocal manufacturing clause from which arrangement we shall be sure to suffer more than they do, because the future in interest, the future in business, is ours, and now is the time for us, by a generous policy, which will also be a just policy, to lay down á principle which other nations will have to follow, so that the country which has the most business will have the most protection.

Representative CURRIER. Have you seen any indication in Europe in reference to following our liberal policy, as shown in that clause? Is there a European country that does not enforce against us a most drastic manufacturing clause?

Mr. Johnson. I do not kņow anything about that, except I know it is disputed. I know, Mr. Currier, upon your having communicated that to me, I made inquiries of the German representatives in this country, and it was, in accordance with the letter I sent you, denied.

Representative CURRIER. Oh, no; not denied that they had a working clause in their laws, but that it was less drastic than I suggested.

Mr. GEORGE H. PUTNAM. There are no such provisions in the copyright laws, Mr. Currier.

Representative CURRIER. I understand that fully, and even England now has gone over to a most drastic working clause in her patent laws. We are the only country on earth that has pursued an absolutely liberal policy of throwing our markets open to everybody, with absolutely no return from any of them.

Mr. Johnson. The patent system should be judged by itself. I know nothing of the patent system, but I know something of the copyright system. I know the treatment of Americans by every other country abroad is of the most liberal character. There is no manu

facturing clause against us in any country of the world in copyrighting

I am not pleading for this purely on the ground of sentiment, but I believe the question of doing the just and honest thing on the highest principle is one of the most valuable assets that the country has ever had or ever will have; and I come to you in the name of idealism to ask you to carry out the injunction in the terms of the Constitution of the United States, to give exclusive rights to creators of copyright property, and to say that this bill shall not go backward; that every step that is taken shall be a forward step. There have been no backward steps in the legislation of this country, and to-day only in the bills that are proposed here has there been anything which would make a record in the wrong direction.

Representative CURRIER. We give all these foreigners writing in a foreign tongue an ad interim term of two years in this bill, do we not?

Mr. Johnson. In other words, you offer them something they can not accept.

Representative CURRIER. Why not?

Mr. Johnson. They can not acccept it because their systems of publication are different from ours; but whatever the sentiment connected with it, the fact remains, of what use is this manufacturing clause for foreign books, books of foreign origin in foreign languages? Of what value is that to the printers and to the compositors of this country?

Representative CURRIER. They think it of great value. I am not familiar with it.

Mr. Johnson. Yes; they do think it of great value, and people are sometimes mistaken about the value of things to themselves. Let us see.

I call upon the Librarian of Congress, or the register of copyrights, to tell us how many books have been copyrighted since 1891 under the manufacturing clause by foreigners in foreign languages. In seventeen years have there been seventeen books? Has there been an average of a book a year? Have there been sixteen books?

The REGISTER OF COPYRIGHTS. I could not give the exact figures, Mr. Johnson, but I think it would be difficult to place a book a year of that character. Of course foreign books have been manufactured in this country.

Representative LEGARE. The clause would not do any harm, then?

Mr. JOHNSON. The clause I propose would do no harm to the printer; and see how it would advantage him.

Representative LEGARE. Well, if there is only a book a year, what would this clause amount to?

Mr. JOHNSON. Up to two years ago there was compulsory manufacturing in this country. That is the reason it was not taken advantage of up to two years ago. Now, we have had recently an ad interim clause.

Representative CURRIER. I might say that the labor unions objected to that term, but it was said that would greatly stimulate the production of books by foreign authors in writing in foreign tongues in this country. Has it stimulated it at all?

Mr. GEORGE H. PUTNAM. It has done that.

Representative CURRIER. Can you tell me how many foreign books have been filed for copyright and how many have been actually pro

!

duced in this country under the manufacturing clause since we gave them the ad interim term?

The REGISTER OF COPYRIGHTS. As I remember it, the ad interim registrations are about 1,500 at the present time, and of those 1,500 there are some 3 or 4 foreign books reprinted.

Representative CURRIER. Yes; about 1 in 500.

The REGISTER OF COPYRIGHTS. The term being only a year, it is not sufficient for the translation, which is the usual point in that. There has been a translation of a very valuable medical book.

Representative CURRIER. Yes; and we propose to give them two years

in this bill. The REGISTER OF COPYRIGHTS. Yes.

Mr. Johnson. I hope this side issue will not obscure the point I am making, namely, whatever may be the interest of the foreigner in taking advantage of our copyright law, the printer has not, in seventeen years, obtained one book a year, whereas persistence in the present policy is going to force the publication of text-books for South America into the hands of the South Americans.

Representative CURRIER. Why, Mr. Johnson?

Mr. Johnson. Simply because you are going to compel them to make a manufacturing clause against us in self-defense.

Representative CURRIER. Mr. Solberg, how many South Americans have entered ?

The REGISTER OF COPYRIGHTS. The international relations with South America include only a very few countries.

Representative CURRIER. Have they ever copyrighted a book from South America?

The REGISTER OF COPYRIGHTS. Yes; I think a few have been registered, but not many.

Mr. Johnson. May I say, Mr. Currier, I think that is quite aside from the question. You were directing yourself to the question how much foreign authors are availing themselves of the limited rights we are giving them. My point is not that. My point is if you go on piling up the restriction of the manufacturing clause, you are going to compel other countries to adopt a manufacturing clause by which we shall suffer more, because the balance of trade would be in our favor. That is the point I am trying to make. Is not that an entirely separate and distinct consideration?

Representative CURRIER. Very likely, if your premises are correct.

Mr. Johnson. I am told there have been published 800,000 copies of a single text-book in this country, which has been distributed through South America in the Spanish language. I will venture to collect statistics in regard to those things, if the committee desires it, to show what is the possible trade here which might be lost to us by the enforcement against us, through the agreement of the various South American Spanish-speaking countries, of a manufacturing clause.

Representative CURRIER. Let me suggest what might be done if we did not have it-just what has been done. Plates were made in this country and sent to Japan, and there the manufacture of the book was completed from the plates. A standard set, as I understand, of American school books was then sent from Japan into this country, or the attempt was made to get them in here, to be sold at 8 cents apiece.

Mr. Johnson. We are opposed to the importation of those plates.

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