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As has been stated, the imprisonment feature came into the copyright law through the dramatists. It pleased the conferees, and it has pleased some of the committees on both sides to expend that into a general proposition. All we ask is that inasmuch as this, after due deliberation, was placed upon the statute books and exists to-day as the law of the land, that you will not lightly interfere with it.

Representative CURRIER. I do not think the amendment to 4966 was placed on the statute books after due deliberation.

Mr. CLARKE. I do not hear what you say.

Representative CURRIER. The amendment by which musical compositions were added to 4966

Mr. CLARKE. What year was that?

Representative CURRIER. My understanding has always been that they intended to confine that to dramatical musical compositions.

Nr. CLARKE. At the time there was no question about the phonograph.

Representative CURRIER. I knew what the man who drew the bill and who reported it to the House and got it through said about it.

Mr. CLARKE. I wish strongly to support the view put forward by the dramatic authors—the view and phraseology put forward by Mr. Johnson, amendatory of that clause against those who transcribe in an unauthorized way an unpublished play and who vend the same, and we ask that the highest penalties be applied to those persons also.

Representative CURRIER. The committee is disposed, I am sure, to give you adequate relief, but the best copyright lawyers in this country say to me, “For Heaven's sake, do not make your penal provisions too drastic. If you do, you never can get a conviction.”

Mr. CLARKE. Of course that is true. In the Winnewood case Judge Grosscup hesitated to impose the penalty on the ground that in geting the copyright they had deposited two typewritten copies, and he claimed that was doubtful.

Representative CURRIER. Do you think you would ever get a conviction under 4966 ?

Mr. CLARKE. No. We are quite satisfied with the protection as found in the Barchfeld bill. Have you any information about the piracy case of Way Down East?

The CHAIRMAN. Not as a committee; but I have heard of it individually. However, I do not want to go into that question now.

Mr. CLARKE. We only ask that our rights as they exist be not impaired.

At 11 o'clock and 45 minutes a. m. the committee took a recess until 8 o'clock p. m.

EVENING SESSION.

The committee reassembled at the expiration of recess.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to ask if the dramatic authors have said all they desire to say upon this question as affecting their interests?

STATEMENT OF MR. JOSEPH I. C. CLARKE, FIRST VICE-PRESI.

DENT AMERICAN DRAMATISTS CLUB.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to say again to Mr. Clarke and the gentlemen present what I said this morning. I do not want to limit anyone

as to time, unless it becomes absolutely necessary. Therefore, I ask everyone to make his statement just as brief as possible.

Mr. CLARKE. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, since this morning, in the direction of the pleadings made by our dramatists upon the penalizing section, we have drawn up a tentative section in the name of the American Dramatists' Club in the form of section 31 of the Smoot bill, and I wish to submit that so that it may, if you please, go upon the record.

The CHAIRMAN. If there is no objection, that will be put in the record.

Mr. CLARKE. It is just one page of manuscript. Do you care to have it read?

Representative CURRIER. How does it differ from the suggestions made by Mr. Johnson this morning?

Mr. CLARKE. It simply absorbs his suggestions.
Representative CURRIER. Nothing further?

Mr. CLARKE. Nothing further-that is, it substitutes the penal provision of the other bill for it, but we submit it for your consideration. If you care to have it read, it is only one page, and I will read it, so that you may know just what is going in the record. The CHAIRMAX. Let it go into the record.

Representative CURRIER. If it simply incorporates Mr. Johnson's suggestions, with the penal clause changed, I hardly think it is necessary to read it.

Mr. CLARKE. You do not care to have it read?
Representative CURRIER. Xot if that is all it does.
Mr. CLARKE. That is all it does.
The CHAIRMAN. That is all you have to say, Mr. Clarke?
Mr. CLARKE. That is all, Senator.
The paper referred to is as follows:

Form of section 31 of United States Senate bill 2499 (Smoot bill) submitted to the Joint Committee on Patents by the American Dramatists (lub March 26, 1908:

Sec. 31. That any person who for profit shall infringe any copyright secured by this act, or who shail aid or abet such infringement, unless able to prove to the satisfaction of a court of competent jurisdiction trying the case that such infringement was neither williul nor knowing, and any person who shall transcribe without authorization any copyrighted but unpublished drama, play, operatic composition, or stage piece, or shall vend any unauthorized or pirated substantial copy of such drama, play, operatic compositions, or stage piece, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment for not exceeding one year, or by a fine of not less than $100 and not exceeding $1,000, or both, in the discretion of the court. Respectfully submitted.

HARRY P. MawSON, Chairman.
Joseph I. C. CLARKE,
CHARLES KLEIN,
GEORGE H. BROADHURST,
(LINTON STUART,

Committee. The CHAIRMAN. I believe there is a gentleman present who desires to speak in opposition to the views expressed here by Mr. Clarke and others representing the dramatic authors. I do not see him here. I did desire that this whole subject-matter be discussed at the present time, so as to have it in the record as compactly as possible. I promised that gentleman that he should be heard. I do not know why he is not here.

If that is all at the present time upon this subject, we can go to some other subject-matter.

I suppose the gentleman who rose, whose name I do not know, represents the Music Engravers' Union? Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What you have to say has reference to the manufacturing clause?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Yes, sir; entirely.

STATEMENT OF MR. HENRY J. FROHNHOEFER, SECRETARY OF

THE MUSIC ENGRAVERS' UNION OF AMERICA. The CHAIRMAN. Give your name to the reporter, please.

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Henry J. Frohnhoefer, secretary of the Music Engravers' Union.

Mr. Chairman, ladies, and gentlemen, I am here before you as the representative of the Music Engravers' Union, in order to try and induce you to make a slight change in sections 13, 16, and 17 of the bill known as the Currier bill (H. R. 243), or sections 12, 16, and 17 of the Kittredge bill. In order to protect the music-engraving industry of this country it is absolutely necessary for these changes to be made.

The following are the changes I propose:

In the Currier bill (H. R. 243), section 13, page 7, line 10, I propose to add the words“ musical composition;" so that it will read "periodical or musical composition shall have been produced in accordance with the

Representative LEGARE. You want to insert the words “or musical composition?"

Representative CURRIER. Striking out the word “or” before “periodical.”

Representative LEGARE. And putting after “periodical” the words or musical composition.”

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. “Or musical composition;" yes, sir.

Section 16, page 8, line 16, I propose to strike out the word “or” before “periodical” and put after it the words “or musical composition."

The CHAIRMAN. That is the same thing.
Mr. FROHNHOEFER. The same thing.

Section 16, line 17, after subsections (a) and (b), I wish to add the letter (e).

Representative LAGARE. After (b) you want (e) ?
Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Yes, sir.

In line 23, page 8, I wish to add the words “or music plate engraving process.

The CHAIRMAN. Then it will read “or, if the text be produced by a lithographic process or music plate engraving process.

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Yes, sir; "the text be produced by lithographic process or music plate engraving process.'

In line 25, on the same page, I wish to add the words “or musical composition" after "book.

Section 17, page 9, line 9, I wish to add the words “or musical composition" after the word "book.”

Line 14, I also wish the same there—“who has printed the book or musical composition."

Line 19, I wish to add after "process" the words “or music plate engraving process.'

Representative LEGARE. Let us get that right. You do not want the word "process'' twice?

Representative CURRIER. He wants to strike out the word“ process" after the word "lithographic" and make it read “lithographic or music plate engraving process.

Mr. FROINHOEFER. Yes, sir. In line 21, I want to insert the words “or musical composition" after the word "book."

That is all I have to say, gentlemen.

Representative CURRIER. I would like to have your reasons for this.

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. The reason we propose is that because publishers of late are having a good deal of their engraving done in Europe, and by so doing they have reduced the work of American engravers to three days a week for about six months a year. We can not compete with the engraving in Europe, because the difference in money and express and everything makes a difference of about 50 per cent cheaper.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean by express?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Why, figuring everything in, the expense they have in shipping it over here.

Representative CURRIER. They still make it 50 per cent cheaper?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. About 50 per cent cheaper, the difference of money and expense and everything.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that the fact with all classes of engraving?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. It is with our line, music engraving. They used to have the plates sent over to the custom-house, and the biggest part of them went through there with no duty on them, simply stamping goods “Sample” or else “No value." I have seen a case where 210 plates came through the custom-house without a bit of duty on them, stamped "No value," and they were passed all right. Of late they have just simply changed it a little bit and send a transfer over, and make a plate on the other side and send a transfer over and transfer to a lithographic stone and print it therefrom.

Representative CURRIER. Have you samples of that?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Yes, sir; I have samples of plates and transfers right with me, if the chairman wishes to see them.

Representative CURRIER. Suppose you show them. Where were those plates made?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. They were made outside the United States. I couldn't say at what factory they were made or what firm made them; but they were made outside the United States. Here I have samples of books that have been engraved outside the United States and printed and copyrighted in the United States. The copyright is on every book. They are operas and scales, etc., all classical music; and here are plates that are engraved and filled with ink, just as they came from the printer. Of late they have gone to sending over the transfers through the mails. Instead of sending over the plate, they just send the transfers over.

Representative Čurrier. What do they do with the transfer when they get it?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. They transfer it onto a lithographic stone. They transfer from this to a lithographic stone and print them therefrom. By so doing, of course, they make more than 50 per cent difference.

Representative LEGARE. Are you the only one representing this particular question?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Yes, sir.

Representative LEGARE. Will you prepare a brief giving your reasons and send it to the stenographer within a week or so?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Yes, sir; I could send it within a couple of days.

The CHAIRMAN. That will be placed in the record immediately after your statement. (See appendix for brief, pp. -.)

Representative LEGARE. Give your reasons in brief form, so that we will have some data and facts to know what we are discussing.

Representative CURRIER. Do you know whether those came through the custom-house as of no value?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. No; these plates I have here we engraved ourselves, but we brought these as a sample. Of course, we could not get any plates that came through the custom-house. They belong to the publishers.

Representative CURRIER. Have you ever seen them?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Yes, sir; I have seen a box with over 200 plates come through.

Representative CURRIER. How did they come through?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. The box had a label on it of the different express companies, in the regular way they are made out, and when it came down to the value it was marked "No value.”

Representative CURRIER. It had 250 plates in it, you say?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. There were over 200 plates. We tried to get the label, but of course the firm that had it in charge would not give us the label.

The CHAIRMAN. How long has this been going on?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. I suppose it has gone on ever so long, but we have noticed it only lately. It has got so bad that we are only working three days a week, about six months out of a year-in New York especially.

Representative CURRIER. How many men are probably employed in the country as music engravers?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Well, in the country probably around 500 men, anyhow, in that line-music engraving.

The CHAIRMAN. Am I to understand that this engraving, which you call music engraving, is different from any other kind of engraving?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. Well, I don't know that it is any different. Of course, it is all done by hand. There is no machinery or anything attached to it. I suppose it is done on about the same style as is all engraving.

The Chairman. Then your term “music engraving" has no special significance other than specifying a particular class of engraving?

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. It is about on the same style as any other engraving. Of course, we simply engrave music.

Representative LAW. Why not simply say "engraving" instead of music engraving?”

Mr. FROHNHOEFER. I do not know whether it would cover our part of it.

Mr. BURKAN. Mr. Chairman, I think I can throw a little light upon that subject, because I have prepared myself to speak to the committee on it.

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