have thorough information. I am, perhaps, passionate and prejudiced, but my passion and prejudice lead me to think, that this has not been the case. Nay, I venture to go so far as to say, that it never was conceived to have been the case. I shall not be told, that Mr. Maseres and General Carleton have given perfect accounts, or have been able to answer all the questions material for information. The House thought it material to know, how the laws were administered, whether they gave satisfaction or dissatisfaction, before they determined on giving the former laws to the colony. The judge advocate did not give us his opinion. We could not foresee that a witness would be captious, and seek for delay. Upon the noble lord's own ground, we ought to move for the judge advocate's report. Sir, I am one of those who think ill of the bill. I like it to pass upon the present evidence, as well as upon any other; but how far it will gain the gentlemen opposite any degree of grace, any degree of dignity, any degree of popularity, let those individuals judge who would not only have refused evidence, but acted in the teeth of it. I really am surprised, that gentlemen, who bring in such a bill as this, should talk of want of time. Was it not competent to them, to bring it in at the beginning of the present session, or even in the last? It is their fault, and not the fault of those who moved for evidence. Allowing this bill to be everything it could be wished, I believe the noble lord will not contend that it is a bill of absolute necessity. The delay of a week or a fortnight is not material; nor has it been thought proper to urge so ridiculous a pretence. I adopt a passionate and prejudiced word. I must think the refusal of the motion perfectly indecent.

. Lord North. I flatter myself that the inconsistency of my conduct does not appear to the House, as it has done to the honourable gentleman who spoke last. General Murray has been so long out of the province, that I do not think his evidence can be very material; but I yielded at the desire of the committee, supposing he could be called in immediately. When, however, the same proposition comes,

in a manner that would cause delay, it is perfectly consistent in me to have a different opinion. That I may have changed my opinion I am very willing to own. To persist always in the same opinion, is not so much the sign of wisdom, as it is of self-sufficiency.-A love of popularity has been insinuated against me. It is necessary that I should solemnly declare, I never did desire popularity, I never did know of any person who meant to compliment me. Praise and dispraise are distributed, by means of insinuations, for the mere purpose of carrying some point, not because the person praised or dispraised deserves approbation. I solemnly declare, whatever compliments were insinuated concerning me, and God knows such compliments are very few, I never knew of them. If the honourable gentleman would attend to anything I could ask, it would be humbly to supplicate him to cease complimenting; it does no good to the man or the business. As for popularity, if popularity means the good opinion of men instructed in the matter of fact-if to have the character of a good public servant, to love what is right, to do what is right-if that be popularity, then popularity must be my desire; but if popularity is hunting after the opinion of the day—if popularity is what is made by art, and contrived to pass for glory at the moment, without any solid ground of deserving public approbation-if that is popularity, I disclaim it.

Governor Pownall. (1)—I am against General Murray's being called in. I said to him, under the gallery, I perceive you will be called in. Can you give me information as to the boundaries of old Canada, before you commanded, by the proclamation? He answered, that his commission described it precisely. Now, Sir, I will venture to affirm, that his commission does not describe it precisely, but gene

(1) Thomas Pownall, Esq. This learned antiquarian and politician was, at this time, member for Tregony. In 1757, he was appointed governor of Massachusetts' Bay, and subsequently of South Carolina. He died in

1805.

rally. ́1) I asked him, if he had ever seen the edict that did settle it-a boundary well known in the government of Quebec. He said he had never seen it, and knew nothing of the boundary. I was going on; but when he might have been called in, he withdrew. The gentlemen who moved and seconded did not know this; but his withdrawing at that moment certainly does look like an affected delay. It affects me so much, that I shall vote against his being called in.

Mr. T. Townshend, jun.—I reported no private conversation with regard to General Murray. I heard him the length of three or four benches.

The Solicitor-General.-Supposing that to have reached the noble lord's ears, it must have done him great injustice. I imagined General Murray's ideas were not the same with those of Mr. Maseres, but that he was favourable to the bill; and I said so to the noble lord.

Mr. Baker. I could not desire him to go away, for I do not know him by sight.

Mr. Dunning.-I hear from one honourable friend, that the general can give useful evidence; I hear from another that he cannot. I hear from one member that his evidence will be friendly to the bill; from another, that it will not. My opinion is, that he can give material evidence, because he is an intelligent man, disposed to make observations, and ready to communicate them. This is very clear, that he must feel himself injured by what has now

(2) In the commission appointing General Murray governor of Quebec, the province is stated to be "bounded on the Labrador coast by the river St. John; and from thence, by a line drawn from the head of that river through the lake St. John, to the south end of the lake Nipissim, from whence the said line crossing the river St. Lawrence and the lake Champlain, in forty-five degrees of northern latitude, passes along the high lands which divide the rivers that empty themselves into the said river St. Lawrence from those which fall into the sea; and also along the north coast of the Baye des Chaleurs and the coast of the gulf of St. Lawrence to Cape Rosières; and from thence crossing the mouth of the river St. Lawrence, by the west end of the island of Anticoste, terminates at the aforesaid river St. John,"

been thrown out. Let him be asked, whether he can give information, or cannot; whether he is a friend to the bill, or an enemy?

The Solicitor-General. — It would be rather singular to call a gentleman to the bar, and ask that blunt question, are you a friend or an enemy to the bill?

Mr. Dunning. I pledge myself to the House, that I would find that out in a minute.

The question being put, that Lieutenant-General Murray, late governor of Canada, do attend the committee on Monday, the House divided. Yeas 36. Noes 90.

Monday, June 6.

The House resolved itself into a committee on the bill, Sir Charles Whitworth in the chair. postponed, and the first clause read;

The preamble being viz.—

"And whereas, by the arrangements made by the said royal proclamation, a very large part of the territory of Canada, within which there were several colonies and settlements, of the subjects of France, who claimed to remain therein under the faith of the said treaty, was left, without any provision being made for the administration of civil government therein, and other parts of the said country where sedentary fisheries had been established and carried on by the subjects of France, inhabitants of the said province of Canada, under grants and concessions from the government thereof, were annexed to the government of Newfoundland, &c. be it enacted, that all the said territories, islands, and countries, heretofore part of the territory of Canada, in North America, extending southward to the banks of the river Ohio, westward to the banks of Mississippi, and northward to the southern boundary of the territory granted to the merchants adventurers of England trading to Hudson's Bay, and which said territories, islands, and countries, are not within the limits of some other British colony, as allowed and confirmed by the Crown, or which have, since the 10th of February 1763, been

made part of the government of Newfoundland, be, and they are hereby, during his Majesty's pleasure, annexed to, and made part and parcel of the province of Quebec, as created and established by the said royal proclamation of the 7th of October, 1763-"

manners.

Lord North.-There are great difficulties, as to the best mode of proceeding. I apprehend the alteration I am about to propose will save every right where there is a right. I will explain the amendment I intend to make; if that should not give satisfaction, gentlemen will state what it is they propose to substitute in its stead. We shall then ascertain how far we shall be able to make anything more precise. The question is an extremely difficult one. It is usual to have different boundaries laid down in different Where the King is master of the country, there they are drawn by his Majesty's officers only; where there has been any grant or charter, and it has been necessary to draw a boundary line, then, not only his Majesty's officers but commissioners have been appointed, and together they draw a line, subject afterwards to an appeal to the privy council; therefore, that distinction is made here. It is intended, immediately after the passing of this act, to go on with the project of running the boundary line between Quebec and New York and Pennsylvania, &c., belonging to the Crown. This is made to prevent the province of Quebec from encroaching on the limits of any of those grants, where no boundary has been settled. I find many gentlemen are desirous of having something still more precise, if possible. To this I have no objection; but we are so much in the dark as to the situation of this country, that it is not possible to do anything more safe, than saving the rights of the other colonies, leaving them to be settled on the spot by commissioners. Persons possessing local knowledge can act better than we can. For that reason, I propose to leave out the words, "heretofore part of the territory of Canada," and insert "extent of country ;" and also to leave out the words "said country," and insert "territory of Canada."