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[SEPTEMBER, 1789.

there was no dangerous confederacy which the hitherto shown? This manner of proceeding gentleman had talked of; and believed the con- would mark a genius in this body which will conduct of the Northern States would bear the strict-tradict the expectations of its warmest friends. I est scrutiny; that, if probed to the bottom, it hope nothing will be fixed by a hasty determinawould be found fair and candid. He remembered tion. I said before, and repeat it again, that I in the debate upon the Tonnage bill, a gentleman from Virginia observed, that could the moderate and equal policy of that day's proceedings have been foreseen in the convention of Virginia, many objections that were there produced against the Constitution would have been thereby obviated. He trusted that, in conducting the business before them, gentlemen could find no cause, eventually, to entertain different sentiments from what he then delivered.

wish to make some observations on what has been advanced, for which at present there is not time. But, if there was, I do not wish to address a determined and silent majority. No, sir, if this be the temper of to-day, let me appeal to a more favorable temper to-morrow. If gentlemen refuse this appeal, I must submit; but I will, to the last moment, assert my right, and remonstrate against a precipitate decision.

Mr. AMES said he remembered, when this subMr. MADISON.—I acknowledge, that, on a for-ject came before the House the other day, when mer day, I made the observation alluded to, with singular complacency. I said, I had found a moderation and liberality prevailing here, which I sincerely believed, if foreseen in the convention of Virginia, would have obviated a very powerful objection to the adoption of the Federal Constitution. But, give me leave now to say, that if a prophet had risen in that body, and brought the declarations and proceedings of this day into view, that I as firmly believe Virginia might not have been a part of the Union at this moment.

A motion was now made for the committee to rise, and several gentlemen said, they wished it to prevail, in order that an opportunity might be afforded for a fuller discussion.

Mr. SEDGWICK hoped the committee would not rise. Will it be contended, that the majority shall not govern; and shall the minority, because they cannot carry their points, accuse the House of want of candor? Are we to be told, that an important State would not have joined the Union, had they known what would have been the proceedings of this House. Gentlemen have brought forward this business themselves; they have cipitated the House into it. We prayed, we supplicated for time; and now gentlemen, from some causes not explained, wish to postpone the matter, in order to have time to deliberate. He believed that a deliberation of six weeks would not alter a single opinion, and therefore it was not proper to consume the public time uselessly.

pre

Mr. MADISON.-When I alluded to the proceedings of this day, I contemplated the manner in which the business was conducted; and though I acknowledge that a majority ought to govern, yet they have no authority to deprive the minority of a Constitutional right; they have no authority to debar us the right of free debate. An important and interesting question being under consideration, we ought to have time allowed for its discussion. Facts have been stated on one side, and members ought to be indulged on the other with an opportunity of collecting and ascertaining other facts. We have a right to bring forward all the arguments which we think can, and ought to have an influence on the decision. It is unusual, on a partial discussion, even of questions of inferior magnitude, to decide in the course of a single day. How, then, can gentlemen reconcile their conduct of this day to the liberality they have

we solicited for delay, it was observed, that the necessities of the Union required an immediate decision; that it would take up but little time; that the proper centre might be easily ascertained; that it would depend upon geographical calculation, and that little discussion would be necessary. Now, when circumstances appear to be changed, when the calculation is made, when the House are ready to vote, gentlemen come forward and pretend that they want time. He hoped the question would be now decided. While he was up, he would observe that he did not entertain a doubt of the patriotism and good intentions of the gentlemen from Virginia. He believed, however, that their judgments were influenced by their wishes, for they seemed to be engaged with a degree of eagerness, which none else appeared to feel; the very language of their motion declares this. They seem to think the banks of the Potomac a paradise, and that river an Euphrates. He had been told it was a fine spot, and he sincerely wished those blessings might ever reside there.

Mr. BURKE observed, that the Northern States had had a fortnight to manage this matter, and would not now allow the Southern States a day. What was the conduct of gentlemen? A league has been formed between the Northern States and Pennsylvania.

Mr. FITZSIMONS interrupted Mr. BURKE, and denied the assertion, as it respected Pennsylvania.

Mr. BURKE then proceeded, and said that the Eastern members had combined with some other States, he could not positively say which; but the first information that was furnished was given this morning, every gentleman had heard it as well as himself, but that had nothing to do with his object; he wanted time to get information; and called on gentlemen, for the honor of the House, to comply with this request.

Mr. WADSWORTH said, he rejoiced to hear the gentlemen calling for time, and crying out fair play. He remembered when he entreated the gentleman who spoke last, and others, not to precipitate themselves into this situation, his entres ties had been of no avail. Knowing that the pride of a majority was one of those things to which he had to submit, he, with all the New England members, solicited for time. With respect to bargaining, he believed that it would

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reflect no honor on either side of the House. He said he must either give his vote now, or submit to more bargaining. He was willing that the whole business of bargaining should be exposed; he would not excuse himself; he did not dare to The communication which the several rivers go to the Potomac. He feared that the whole of have with that country has been brought into New England would consider the Union as de-view; and, from what I have heard, I am led to stroyed. Since the matter had been so prema- suppose, that the House would incline to fix upon turely brought on, since members had been forced, one that furnished such a convenience. This disand, as it were, dragged by the throat to this busi- position, if carried into execution, will, perhaps, ness, he hoped it was now finished. do perfect justice to that country, and as much The question was now put, on the rising of the as the inhabitants can expect; the question, howcommittee, and carried: Whereupon the commit-ever, seems to lie between the Susquehanna and tee rose and reported progress, and then the House adjourned.

SEAT OF GOVERNMENT. The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the resolution for estab-with the northern lakes, but much of the country lishing a permanent seat of Government, Mr. BOUDINOT in the Chair.

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New York, the same thing has happened with some fluctuations, arising from occasional motives of convenience. In Massachusetts, the same effort has been made, and in all probability, when some temporary considerations cease, we shall find the same principle taking effect there also. It is not surprising, when we consider the nature of mankind, that this should be the case.

With respect, however, to the Federal Government, there is one consideration that shows, in a peculiar manner, the necessity and policy of paying a strict attention to this principle. One of the greatest objections which has been made by the opponents of the system, which has been allowed most weight by its friends, is the extent of the United States. It has been asserted by some, and almost feared by others, that within so great a space, no free Government can exist. I hope and trust, that the opinion is erroneous; but, at the same time, I acknowledge it to have a certain degree of force, and it is incumbent on those who wish well to the Union, to diminish this inconve nience as much as possible. The way to diminish it, is to place the Government in that spot which will be least removed from every part of the empire. Carry it to a remote position, and it will be equivalent to an extension of our limits; and if our limits are already extended so far as warrants, in any degree, the apprehension before mentioned. we ought to take care not to extend them further.

the gentlemen, it will at least soften that hard decision which seems to threaten the friends of the Potomac. He hoped that all would concur in the great principle on which they ought to conduct and decide this business; an equal attention to the rights of the community. No Government, he said, not even the most despotic, could, beyond a certain point, violate that idea of justice and equal right which prevailed in the mind of the community. In Republican Governments, justice and equality form the basis of the system; and perhaps the structure can rest on no other that the wisdom of man can devise. In a Federal Republic, give me leave to say, it is even more necessary and proper, that a sacred regard should be paid to these considerations. For beyond the sense of the community at large, which has its full agency in such a system, no such Government can act with safety. The Federal ingredient involves local distinctions, which not only produce local jealousies, but give, at the same time, a greater local capacity to support and insist upon equitable demands. In a Confederacy of States, in which the people operate, in one respect as citizens, and in another as forming political communities, the local Governments will ever possess a keener sense and capacity, to take advantages of those powers, on which the protection of local rights depend. If these great rights be the basis of republics, and if there be a double necessity of attending to them in a The truth is, in every point of view in which Federal Republic, it is further to be considered, we can contemplate this subject, we shall perceive that there is no one right, of which the people its high importance. It is important that every can judge with more ease and certainty, and of part of the community should have the power of which they will judge with more jealousy, than sending, with equal facility, to the seat of Govof the establishment of the permanent seat of ernment such representatives to take care of their Government; and I am persuaded, that however interests, as they are disposed to confide in. If often this subject may be discussed in the repre- you place the Government in an uncentral situasentative body, or however the attention of the tion, the attendance of the members, and of all committee may be drawn to it, the observations others who are to transact the public business, I have made will be more and more verified. cannot be equally convenient. The members of We see the operation of this sentiment fully ex- the Union must be on an unequal footing. Thus emplified in what has taken place in the several you violate the principle of equality, where it States. In every instance where the seat of Gov-ought most carefully to be ascertained, and wound ernment has been placed in an uncentral position, we have seen the people struggling to place it where it ought to be. In some instances they have not yet succeeded, but I believe they will succeed in all. In many they have actually gained their point.

the feelings of the component parts of the community, which can be least injured with impunity. If we consider the expense, that is an inconve nience not without its weight. In the compensations that have been lately voted, the centrality of our position has had a manifest influence. The more remote the Government is, the greater will be the necessity of making liberal compensations. and holding out powerful inducements, in order to obtain the services of fit characters, from every part of the Union; and as you can make no distinction, you must give to those who make the fewest sacrifices the same as to those who make the most.

One of the first measures in the State of Virginia, after the commencement of the Revolution, was the removal of the seat of Government from an uncentral position, to one which corresponds more with the sense of the State, and an equal regard to the general conveniency. In North Carolina we have seen the same principle operating, though in a different mode. In South Carolina the same. In the State of Pennsylvania, The seat of Government is of great importance, powerful as the inducements are in favor of its if you consider the diffusion of wealth that procapital, we have seen serious, and almost success-ceeds from this source. I presume that the exful efforts already to translate it to a proper place. penditures which will take place, where the GovIn the State of Delaware, where the Govern-ernment will be established by those who are ment was as little removed from the centre as it immediately concerned in its administration, and could be in any other State, we have seen the by others who may resort to it, will not be less same spirit displaying itself. In the State of than half a million dollars a year. It is to be re

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gretted that those who may be most convenient to the centre should enjoy this advantage to a higher degree than others; but the inequality is an evil imposed by necessity; we diminish it as we place the source from which those emanations of wealth are to proceed as near the centre as possible.

If we consider, sir, the effects of Legislative power on the aggregate community, we must feel equal inducements to look for the centre, in order to find the proper seat of Government. Those who are most adjacent to the seat of Legislation will always possess advantages over others. An earlier knowledge of the laws, a greater influence in enacting them, better opportunities for anticipating them, and a thousand other circumstances will give a superiority to those who are thus situated. If it were possible to promulgate our laws, by some instantaneous operation, it would be of less consequence in that point of view where the Government might be placed; but if, on the contrary, time is necessary for this purpose, we ought, as far as possible, to put every part of the community on a level.

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as is consistent, and approach towards that point which will best accommodate the Western country; in doing this, we shall still stop short of that geographical centre, whose circle would most commodiously embrace our ultramontane fellowcitizens. In his opinion, the desire manifested by them on this subject, was as reasonable as possible; they do not expect that we should lose sight of a proper and easy communication with the Atlantic, and will acquiesce with cheerfulness, in a position necessary for that purpose, though it would still leave them subject to peculiar inconveniences. From the Atlantic to the Mississippi, according to the best computation, the distance is not less than seven hundred and fifty miles; if we go to that part of the Potomac which is proposed, we carry the Government two hundred and fifty miles only west, it will still be five hundred miles from the Mississippi.

He was sure, that if justice required us to take any one position in preference to another, we had every inducement, both of interest and of prudence, to fix on the Potomac, as most satisfactory to our Western brethren. It is impossible to reIf we consider the influence of the Government flect a moment on the possible severance of that in its Executive department, there is no less rea- branch of the Union without seeing the mischiefs son to conclude that it ought to be placed in the which such an event must create. The area of centre of the Union. It ought to be in a situation the United States, divided into two equal parts, to command information relative to every part of will leave, perhaps, one half on the west side of the Union, to watch every conjuncture, to seize the Allegany mountains. From the fertility of every circumstance that can be improved. The the soil, the fineness of the climate, and every Executive eye ought to be placed where it can thing that can favor a growing population, we best see the dangers which may threaten, and the may suppose the settlement will go on with every Executive arm whence it may be extended most degree of rapidity which our imagination can effectually to the protection of every part. Per-conceive. If the calculation be just, that we haps it is peculiarly necessary, that, in looking for double in twenty-five years, we shall speedily bethe position, we should keep our eye as much as hold an astonishing mass of people on the Westpossible towards our Western borders; for a long ern waters. Whether this great mass will form time dangers will be most apt to assail that quar-a permanent part of the confederacy, or whether ter of the Union.

In the Judiciary department, if it is not equally necessary, it is highly important that the Government should be equally accessible to all.

Why should the citizens of one quarter of the Union be subject to greater difficulties than others? Why should they be obliged to travel further, to carry their witnesses at a greater expense, and be more subject to all the inconveniences attending the administration of justice at a remote distance? In short, whether we consider the subject with regard to the Executive, the Legislative, or the Judicial departments, we see the soundest reasons for fixing the Government in that place which may be the most permanent centre of territory and population.

it will be separated into an alien, a jealous and a hostile people, may depend on the system of measures that is shortly to be taken. The difference, he observed, between considering them in the light of fellow-citizens, bound to us by a common affection, obeying common laws, pursuing a common good, and considering them in the other light, presents one of the most interesting questions that can occupy an American mind. Instead of peace and friendship, we shall have rivalship and enmity; instead of being a great people, invulnerable on all sides, and without the necessity of those military establishments which other nations require, we shall be driven into the same expensive and dangerous means of defence. We shall be obliged to lay burdens on the people, to With respect to the Western territory, we are support establishments which, sooner or later, not to expect it, for it would be an affront to the may prove fatal to their liberties. It is incumunderstanding of our fellow-citizens on the West-bent on us, if we wish to act the part of magnaniern waters, that they will be united with their Atlantic brethren on any other principle than that of equality and justice. He would venture to say that it was essentially necessary, therefore, that we should deal out the blessings of Government with an impartial hand; and that, in placing the Government from which these blessings are to flow, we should retire from the Atlantic as far

mous legislators, or patriotic citizens, to consider well, when we are about to take a step of such vast importance, that it be directed by the views he had described; we must consider what is just, what is equal, and what is satisfactory.

It may be asked, why it was necessary to urge these principles, since they would not be denied? He apprehended, that, in general, there would be

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tingency of the separation of the Western country was a reason for preferring the sea-coast.

He proceeded next to say, there will not be any contest where this centre of the sea-coast line is to be found; it falls between the rivers Potomac and Susquehanna. It will be found that there are good reasons why we should rather move East than South.

[SEPTEMBER, 1789.

the sea-coast line there will be less than any other principle. It will be found best to accommodate the greatest number; or, in other words, to be the centre of common convenience; indeed, this is not denied to be true at this moment; but the case is said to be changing. On the one hand, I think it is Utopian to calculate upon the population of the United States a century hence; and, on the If the sea-coast line is to be preferred it will other hand, I admit that it is impolitic at least, follow that the back lands, west of the Ohio, perhaps unjust, to confine our attention to the prewhich the gentleman from Virginia has so often sent population; a quarter of a century may be a taken into his calculations, will be excluded; they medium. Will gentlemen deny that trade and are not peopled; they do not affect the sea-coast manufactures will accumulate people in the Eastline; and that line has already been voted to be ern States, in proportion of five to three, com the proper one by the committee. As it is true pared with the Southern? The disproportion that the sea-coast has more wealth and more peo-will, doubtless, continue to be much greater than ple than the inland country in proportion to the extent, it is equally true that the Eastern half of the sea-coast has more of both than the Southern. If we reckon Maryland, which will be as well accommodated by the Susquehanna as by the Potomac, we shall find the population of the Eastern part nearly two millions, and the population of free inhabitants still less in favor of the latter. But, sir, instead of seeking a centre geographically we should consider the centre of common convenience. The place is the proper one where the greatest number of persons will be best accommodated. I will endeavor to show that that So far, therefore, as we may be allowed to look will be on the Susquehanna. Is the zeal of gen-forward, the eastern half, from this central seat, tlemen, who oppose this design, influenced by will be far more populous than the other. In New their despair of removing the seat of Govern- England the settled parts are said to contain about ment afterwards? I believe the people of Ame- forty-five to a square mile. rica will not complain of it. If fixed there, I think it will be found convenient and will remain there.

I have calculated. It is actually greater at present; for the climate and negro slavery are acknowledged to be unfavorable to population; so that husbandry, as well as commerce and manufactures, will give more people in the Eastern than in the Southern States. The very circumstance that gentlemen found their reasonings upon is pretty strongly against their calculations. They tell us of the vast quantities of good land still unsettled in their States; that will produce a thin population; for the old lands will not be crowded so long as new ones are to be had.

Much is said of the separation of the Western country. At a remote period the junction of the British colonies with the Union might be taken into view.

Let us next consider the inland navigation of this river. Pittsburg, on the Ohio, may be considered as the key of those waters, at least to the northward; it is a kind of common centre. Let us see how we shall approach it by the Susquehanna. Miles.

The Susquehanna is the centre of the common convenience. At this moment there is more The seat of Government on the Susquehanna wealth and more inhabitants East than South of will be nearly accessible by water to all the peo it. But the future population of America is cal-ple on the sea-coast by the Delaware river on the culated, and it is pretended that the balance of one side, and Chesapeake bay on the other. population is receding from the East. Surely the present inhabitants may be allowed principally to consult their own convenience. West of the Ohio is an almost unmeasurable wilderness; when it will be settled, or how it will be possible to govern it, is past calculation. Gentlemen will pardon me if I think it perfectly romantic to make this decision depend upon that circumstance. Probably it will be near a century before those quehanna, and at the head of the Chesapeople will be considerable; if we fix the nationpeake to Wright's Ferry, is (and here al seat in the proper place now, it would give me the Federal town probably will be) no inquietude to know that a hundred years To Harris's Ferry, hence it may be liable to be removed; but, in To the mouth of Juniata River, fact, the principle that is assumed by the com-Up Juniata River to the Standing Stone mittee, and which I have attempted to justify, of Portage to Conimaugh Old Town, taking the centre of the sea-coast line, will, even Down the Kiskaminetas River to the Allegain the event of that vast tract being settled, furny River, nish abundant reasons for its remaining on the Down that River to Pittsburg, Susquehanna. I will not recapitulate those rea

sons.

From Havre de Grace, at the mouth of Sus

And from the supposed seat of Government
at Wright's Ferry, only

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We must take some principles to guide us; and though some inequalities will appear, yet let gentlemen remember that, in so vast a country, great inconvenience will attend the communica- Now, let us see what is the route by the Pototions of the people with Government, be the seat mac. First, from the tide-water, on the Potomac, of it where it may; and by taking the centre of to Fort Cumberland, is two hundred miles.