AUGUST, 1789.]

Permanent Seat of Government.

[H. of R.

said, who lived near New York, might perhaps the Government. The Judiciary bill, he said, be satisfied if it was not discussed for years to was pressing, and had been the order of the day come: but justice to the Union at large, and to for several weeks. The funding of the public the inhabitants of this city in particular, required debt was an object of great magnitude, and was that it should be soon settled. They were going earnestly expected. If the House did the duty to incur great expenses for erecting a palace for that they owed to their constituents, it was of the President, and for other objects. If the pre-little importance in what place it was executed, sumption on which this project was founded was provided it was done, and done to their satisnot well grounded, it was just and proper that faction. they should be undeceived, and not induced to spend their money without a prospect of compensation. A regard to their interests, therefore, required that we should let them know what they were to depend upon. He thought, also, that some attention ought to be paid to the petitions of the people respecting a permanent seat of Go

vernment.

Mr. BURKE said, he thought it would be doing great injustice to the Southern States to fix on so early a day in the next session, as it was probable that the members for those States would not have assembled by that time.

Mr. Scort thought the principles of the Union were the principles of equal justice and reciprocity. He conceived the question now before the House as grand a link as any in the federal chain. The future tranquillity and well-being of the United States, he said, depended as much on this as on any other question that ever had or could come before Congress. It was a justice due to the extremities of the continent to adopt some measure. It being, therefore, a point with them, and of justice too, he could not conceive how any gentlemen, who had the welfare of their country at heart, could oppose it.

The resolution held out this general idea, that the seat of the Federal Government ought to be fixed at the most central place, with respect to population and territory, having an equal regard to the Atlantic and western parts of the Union. When the central line between the northern and southern extremities was fixed, no person in the Western Territory had ever wished anything further than that Congress should establish their seat as far back on this line as the conveniency of maritime commerce would allow.

He thought those people expected-they had a right to demand it-as it was founded on justice. If, then, this principle was allowed, the subject would be speedily determined, and could not involve much debate, because they had nothing more than to find that spot in which the centres were combined.

Mr. FITZSIMONS thought the present time was the most proper to determine this business. There was now a pretty full representation. It was not probable, he said, that, at any future time, there would be so great a number collected; certainly at no period of the Winter season. He acknowledged there was business of great importance before Congress; but was there any more important than the subject proposed? It was a question in which the people of every part of the Union were deeply interested. As to the expense, that was an after consideration. The present object was only to fix the place; and whether the removal was to be made this year or the next, was a different affair. It had been remarked, that jealousies existed among the States. They were not likely to be removed by inattention to so great a concern. Mr. SHERMAN said, it was merely to accommodate the gentlemen who were so urgent, that he moved the second Monday in December. It was evident that there would be too little time this season. But if the gentleman from South Carolina thought it too early a day for the Southern members to meet, he was willing to agree to a more distant day. In addition to the arguments adduced for deferring this matter, there was another important consideration. The Union was not yet complete. North Carolina and Rhode Island had not a voice in the Legislature. He thought, nevertheless, their wishes and interest ought to be consulted; and, in a transaction which is to affect them so essentially, they ought to have a concurrent voice. It was supposed, and that upon good grounds, that it would not be long before North Carolina would be united to the Government. She was entitled to six voices, and Rhode Island to one. The continent ought to be properly bal-Legislature. How long a time the discussion of anced on this question.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) moved that the first Monday in January next should be assigned for taking up this subject. He was against entering upon it at present, because the House had more important business before them, which could not be deferred without material injury to 1st CoN.-26

This he conceived to be a favorable moment to determine the great question that had agitated the minds of the people for several years. We might be assured, that at this time Congress possessed all their virtue and innocence; but it might be feared that would not be the case in future. Congress were now free from all factions, and as devoid as possible of the spirit of party and local views. It may happen that in a future day faction may compel Government to fix on some improper place, and one of two events would result from this: either they would be obliged to remove after expending great sums of money on this imprudent establishment, or the Union would be dissolved.

Mr. LIVERMORE said, that the two Houses had come to a resolution to adjourn next month. Many weighty matters were still before the

this subject would require was uncertain; it might engross a deal of time, and be productive of animasity and party spirit, which the measure itself proposes to guard against. He wished first to have the organization of Government finished, and those important duties fulfilled which the public anxiously expected.

H. OF R.]

Permanent Seat of Government.

He did not understand, he said, that any gentleman was uneasy in his present situation. He had not heard any complaints. Congress are well accommodated for the present in this city. There may be other places, no doubt, where Congress might be accommodated; but he believed both the citizens of New York and the members of the Legislature were mutually satisfied. He had not heard of any memorial from the former informing Congress that they were tired of them, or requesting them to remove. Many parts of the country appear extremely anxious to have Congress with them. There is Trenton, Germantown, Carlisle, Lancaster, Yorktown, and Reading, have sent us abundance of petitions, setting forth their various advantages; we wish the inhabitants may enjoy the benefits of them, and if they are pleasantly situated, and have plenty of fish, we are very glad to hear it; and if it should ever suit Congress to remove to any of them, why Congress will enjoy the benefit of them also. He could not see any reason that all the important matters should be postponed in order to consider this. If all these matters could be despatched by next Spring, and the road should be impassable, he would be for taking it up.

[AUGUST, 1789.

to see the temperate spirit with which the House
began, and wished it might continue; but he ap
prehended that no question would so fully prove
the temper of this body as the present.
The question was then taken on Mr. SMITH'S
motion, and lost-yeas, 21, nays 30.
Mr. SPEAKER being about to put the question
on the second Monday in December,

Mr. AMES inquired if the motion to adjourn on the twenty-second of September was not inconsistent with the resolution now offered to the House? A committee had been appointed to report the business of the present session. The committee reported, and so much of that report was accepted as related to the time of adjourn ment. It therefore appeared to him, that the proposition to take up this subject at the present time was superseded. He was confident it was inconsistent with that determination. It would become necessary to rescind the determination; but whe ther that would be done or not, depended on the disposition of the Senate. Should they not concur, the House would waste their time, and be obliged to leave the most important business unfinished.

He said he could not suppress some emotions of tions which had not for their object the complete surprise that gentlemen should propound ques prostrate and inanimate; and instead of infusing organization of the Government. It lies, as yet, life into it, and giving motion to the machine, we have been altering our Constitution, and are now

He said the idea of a permanent seat of Government was not in itself strictly true. As population increased, and men of new principles and views took their seats in Congress, this permanent seat might be altered at pleasure. It was certainly wise in Congress to be economical; a removal was always found very expensive; the finances of their country were not at present ade-entering into a lengthy discussion to determine quate to new expenses, consequently they ought not to be incurred. He further observed, that a great variety of objects were necessary to be considered in fixing the seat of Government, besides the mathematical centrality; the salubrity of the situation was a capital circumstance. He hoped the subject would not be taken up this session.

where we shall sit.

If the gentleman's motion only involved a few abstract propositions in it, it would not be of much importance; but he saw how difficult their de cision would be. Were I a stranger, I should apprehend, from the manner in which the motion had been introduced, that it would be a question agitated with as much acrimony as any

whatever.

Mr. ScorT thought the gentleman treated the subject in a cavalier manner; it might be well in him to do so, as he did not like a long journey; I ever found it a difficult task, on the most tribut he hoped the House were not disposed to trivial occasions, to obtain unanimity. What, then, fle with a subject of this magnitude.

Mr. JACKSON said, upon this subject depended the existence of the Union. The place of the seat of Government was important in every view. It might be compared, he said, to the heart of the human body; it was the centre from which the principles of life were carried to the extremities, and from these it might return again with

precision.

It was indifferent to him whether the subject was determined now or at the next session, but he thought it best that the motion should lie on

the table.

Mr. SUMTER Seconded his motion.

Mr. STONE remarked, that this was a very important business, and required a deal of caution to conduct it. He knew of no question that would have a greater tendency to produce broils and dissensions. It was often the case that unhappy diviions arose, chiefly from an indiscreet mode of conducting business of this kind. He was glad

must be the divisions on a question, which some gentlemen have said the very existence and peace of the Union depends upon? I believe it will involve as many passions as the human heart can display. Every principle of local interest, of pride and honor, and even of patriotism, are en gaged. If the good of the Union requires that the seat of Government should be fixed at Pitts burg, I am willing to pledge myself to the honor able gentleman I will vote for it; but I must now vote for postponing the business. It is not suff cient to determine where the seat of Government ought to be, but it is necessary the public mind should be prepared to concur with ours. In the decision of questions of this magnitude, where our interests are so materially concerned, the rea sons ought to be made public, and they ought to correspond with those of the people.

When I left my constituents, I had no concep tion of proceedings like this; neither have las yet formed my opinion; when I do, I pledge my

self that it shall not spring from local or selfish principles.

The honorable gentleman has introduced this subject as a very important one: we will consider it as such. If only the centre was to be determined, it might be settled in a very short time. If the oaks and the mountains are to be numbered, if the acres in the United States are also to be the ground of our decision, perhaps a few days' calculation may settle the business.

My opinion is, that the centre of Government ought to be a centre of convenience and utility; that the heart should be so placed as to propel the blood to the extremities, with the most equable and gentle motion. I would place the Government where it might most effectually guard the extremes, and protect the weak parts. I sincerely wish that the territory now subject to the laws of the Union may continue so, and that Government may be so situated as to be enabled to exert its force with the best advantage to ensure the preservation of the Union, and compel obedience to its laws.

The gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. SHERMAN) has justly said that North Carolina and Rhode Island should have a voice in this business. He said he would not impute unworthy motives to the gentleman who introduced the motion, but would ask him whether the people at large ought not to be equally convinced of their purity? whether, in justice to himself, and to the subject generally, the public mind ought to be better prepared for the occasion? He was not convinced that the Government, ill-cemented and feeble as it is, could stand the shock of such a measure; and therefore he most earnestly deprecated the

event.

Mr. ScoTT said, that rather than lose so much time in debating as to the time when the business should be taken up, he would consent to let it lie on the table till it was called for; for he conceived the last vote showed the sense of the House to be in favor of taking it up at the present

[H. or R.

Mr. HARTLEY insisted upon the motion for making it the order of the day for next Thursday. Mr. WADSWORTH said, that he had no objection to it, for he was ready to meet the question, since gentlemen were so extremely pressing in bringing it forward.

Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) moved to make it conditionally the order of the day for Thursday sennight; that is, provided the House had gone through the Judicial bill.

Mr. PAGE approved of Thursday sennight, and hoped the question would be discussed with temper.

The question of Thursday sennight was put and lost.

On the question for making it the order of the day for Thursday next, it passed in the affirmative: Yeas 27, nays 23.

And then the House adjourned.

FRIDAY, August 28.

PUBLIC CREDITORS.

Mr. FITZSIMONS presented the following petition from the public creditors in the State of Pennsylvania:

To his Excellency the President, and the honorable the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States:

The memorial and petition of the public creditors who

are citizens of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, by their committee duly authorized and instructed, MOST RESPECTFULLY SHOW:

That your memorialists, influenced by a faithful and uniform attachment to the happiness and glory of their country, behold, with peculiar satisfaction, the establishment of a Government which is expressly constituted to promote and perpetuate union, order, and justice, the great sources of national prosperity: and when they consider the characters that are appointed to organize and administer this system, they embrace the most flattering hope that in its execution will be found an ample performance of the auspicious promises which Mr. HARTLEY said, that he was of opinion with indeed, your memorialists, whose services and sufferare contained in its principles. From this anticipation, his colleague, that the sentiments of the House ings in the public cause cannot require a particular atwere fully established by the last vote, and there-testation, have derived that consolation which the imfore hoped gentlemen would permit the question to be taken without prolonging the debate.

session.

Mr. SEDGWICK could wish as early a period as might be for taking up the business. He had no idea that the seat of the Federal Government should be in New York, or in any place so far North as this city; he would have no objection to attending to it immediately, if it was supposed Congress had time to discuss it temperately. Impressed with this idea, he would wish it deferred until the last Tuesday in December.

becility of the former Union, and the political vicissitudes of their own immediate State, would not permit them to indulge.

In the hour of extreme necessity, when complicated want enfeebled, and impending ruin agitated, their country, your memorialists avow an honorable pride in the remembrance of the exertions by which they then essentially contributed to her protection and safety. At the same time they partook of the toils and dangers of active life, and suffered in the ruinous depreciation of the paper currency, at least in common with their fellow-citizens, the wealth which had been transmitted to them by their ancestors or accumulated by their industry, the fund which prudence had hoarded to administer comfort to old age, and the supply which hu

Mr. AMES said, that he did not wish to evade the question, but was fully of opinion with his colleague, that it could not now be discussed, and therefore joined him in wishing it might be post-manity had provided for the helpless infant or the poned until the last of December.

The question being put for the last Tuesday in December, it passed in the negative: Yeas 21, nays 29.

solitary widow, they advanced with a liberal and patriotic hand to relieve the exigencies of the Union. The public faith was pledged by every solemnity of assurance; the honor of the States was bound, by every

tie of gratitude, to compensate so memorable a sacrifice of private interest and personal immunity. Yet your memorialists, calling your attention to a melancholy retrospect, might remind you of the ineffectual though virtuous efforts of the late Congress to discharge the national engagements, might describe the apparent disregard of the States for their confederated sovereignty, though recently purchased through a long and bloody conflict; and, in the language of calamity and complaint, might deplore the disappointment, the poverty, the wretchedness, and the anguish, which afflicted the first and firmest patriots of the Union; excluding them from a participation in the triumphs of independence, and embittering their love of liberty with a painful sense of the injuries which they sustained. Such reflections, however, your memorialists cheerfully dismiss, in the contemplation of that compact which, providing for the dignity and honor of the Union, has made the payment of the public debt a fundamental principle of the Government, and, having imposed the obligation, has also created an adequate power to discharge it.

But your memorialists now humbly confess that they have waited in anxious suspense for some evidence of the disposition of Congress upon this interesting subject. They admit the general importance of the arrangements which have occupied the attention of the Federal Legislature; and they particularly rejoice in the foundation that has been laid for the production of an efficient revenue. Those, however, are but preliminary steps to the attainment of the principal object of the new system and should Congress adjourn without any more decisive act for the restoration of public credit, the mere institution of offices or the regulation of imposts will hardly protect the American character from the derision of its enemies, or the reproaches of those who have hitherto thought that the want of power was its only imperfection.

:

[AUGUST, 1789.

citizens they perceive a fair and honorable desire to discharge the engagements which were incurred in the common cause. The only task, therefore, that seems to be imposed upon the present Government is, to adopt that mode which shall be best calculated to promote the public welfare, at the same time that it does justice to the individuals who are interested. Immediately to pay off the public debt, principal and interest, if not imprac ticable, would be greatly inconvenient, and is certainly unnecessary; for the example of those nations who enjoy the highest commercial reputation has evinced that a permanent appropriation for the punctual payment of the interest will enable the public creditor to enjoy, by the facility of a transfer, all the advantages of the principal, without injuring the credit of the country, or straining her resources.

Your memorialists, in addition to these observations, beg leave respectfully to suggest, that it has been the deliberate opinion of some of the most enlightened statesmen that a certain amount of funded debt (and surely the debt of the United States would not be deemed too great) is a national benefit. The creation of a new species of money by this means, naturally increases the circulation of cash, and extensively promotes every kind of useful undertaking and enterprise in agriculture, commerce, and mechanics. On this ground alone, therefore, the advantages of a funding system would be sufficient to justify its establishment; but there are other arguments arising from the political situation of Amer ica, which ought to render it, in this country particu larly, an object of favor and attention. It has been well maintained that, after the revolution in England, a funding system was there encouraged as the best means of attaching the great and powerful body of stockholders to the Government. The policy which prevailed in that case is infinitely more forcible when applied to the case of the United States; for the credit of the Union being perfectly established, every citizen, who has not originally, will be desirous of becoming, a proprietor in the public funds; those individuals who may hitherto have been inimical to the principles of the Revolution, or averse to the adoption of the subsisting Constitution, will be irresistibly invited to partake of the benefits, and consequently to promote the prosperity of the Confederation; each State will find an interest in the welfare and punctuality of the rest; the Federal Government will be zealously supported as a general guarantee; and, in short, a debt originating in the patriotism that achieved the independence, may thus be converted into a cement that shall strengthen and perpetuate the Union of America.

Your memorialists, with the utmost deference, beg leave to represent, that public credit is the vital spark of modern policy. For the history of the world demonstrates, that whatever may be the extent of territory, the degree of population, or the fertility of soil, unless the faith of national engagements is placed upon a basis inviolable and immutable, the advantages of nature will be lost in the uncertainty of their enjoyment, and Government will afford no encouragement to industry or protection to virtue; but, while it oppresses with its power, must corrupt by its example. The domestic experience of America renders it unnecessary, indeed, to explore the annals of ancient or cotemporary nations, in order to collect this salutary lesson; and there is only Your memorialists conceive that it would be superwanting an exercise of that wisdom which it inculcates fluous to prosecute a detail of the immediate or collateto convert her calamity into a blessing, and make the ral benefits which a funding system would produce, remembrance of what has been lost the instrument of whether by stimulating domestic industry, or attracting securing what may yet be acquired. The decay of pub- foreign capitals to the aid of the husbandmen, merchants, lic credit, engendering licentiousness and anarchy, has and artists of America. It is enough, in this respect, once threatened the perversion of all that was noble in to urge that justice, humanity, and policy require the her exertions, and the waste of all that was valuable in earliest consideration of the claim which is now respect. her success. To avert a similar danger, the most une- fully submitted. Nor can it be incumbent on your quivocal demonstration of an intention to restore the memorialists to obviate the suggestions of that pern faith and purity of her name is naturally expected from cious policy which aims at once to plunder them of their the guardians of the public interest and honor. And only hope, and to undermine the foundations of an infant your memorialists now fervently pray them to consider, Government, even before the structure is complete. Let that procrastination, in a business of so delicate a na- it not be recorded in the history of the Revolution, that, ture, may be as fatal as a defect of power, or a want of while the monarchy of Britain generously cherished disposition to be just. and indemnified every friend to prerogative and usurIn the resources of the Union your memorialists dis-pation, a triumphant Republic suffered the prompt and cover an ample fund, and in the conduct of their fellow-zealous supporters of the standard of liberty to languish

By the glorious remembrance, therefore, of the past; NAYS-Messrs. Coles, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Grout, by the rich prospect of the future; by the obligations Hathorn, Livermore, Parker, Partridge, Van Renssewhich the representatives of the public owe to the sur-laer, Schureman, Seney, Sinnickson, Stone, Sumter, viving orphans and widows of those who have bravely and Thatcher-16. fought the battles of the Union, or nobly supplied its wants in the times of peril and distress; and by the regard which is due to the peace and happiness of posterity; your petitioners implore your immediate aid and interposition, rejoicing that their humble solicitation for justice and humanity necessarily includes a prayer for the revival of public credit, and the advancement of the national honor,