an idea that greater revenue might be obtained from less duties. [APRIL, 1789. ought to see what security the one for collection will afford; if it is not sufficient to obtain the object in view, no doubt can remain but that the duties ought to be lowered. It is at present the sense of well-informed men, both in Congress and out of doors, that the duties are too high to be collected, and being of that opinion I shall vote for the reduction. On this principle I hope the amendment will take place. Mr. LAWRENCE.-The gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. FITZSIMONS) has observed, that a high duty on rum will tend to improve the morality of our citizens, at the same time he expects to raise a considerable revenue from the importation; if the consumption is lessened, the object of revenue is defeated, and the deficiency rendered uncertain. The true object I take to be this, that we lay our duties in such a manner as to produce the greatest quantity of revenue from each article which it is capable of yielding, considering its nature and circumstances. Here, then, it is worthy of consideration, whether we have laid the impost on rum so as to obtain the pay-on the highest sum first." He joined in the opinment of the duty on the whole quantity imported, or whether it will not occasion so much to be smuggled as will lessen the amount of the revenue below what a lighter duty would bring into the treasury. If the fact is, that smuggling is increased by high duties, the revenue runs great risk of loss. Now, several gentlemen contemplate that this will be the case here, and they imagine this because the duty is much higher than the mean rate of all the duties laid throughout the Union. It is higher than has been laid by any particular State; besides, it does not correspond in a ratio with the other articles. As the quantity already imported has paid but a small duty, it may be Mr. BLAND would second the gentleman last afforded at a moderate price, but what hereaf-up, but thought it was not in order to have the ter is imported, if it pays a much higher duty, question taken first on the lowest sum. cannot come in competition with the former; so that the importer must either keep the latter upon hand, or introduce it without the payment of any duty all. Mr. TUCKER wished the duties to be lowered, and proposed to the committee to strike off seven cents from the fifteen; by varying his motion in this manner, he expected the sense of the House could be taken on his proposition first, notwithstanding the rule that "the question shall be put ion that high duties were productive of smuggling; that notwithstanding the powers and vigilance of custom-house officers, and the whole Executive, contraband trade is carried on in every nation where the duties are so high; the facility with which it could be done in America ought to show a prudent Legislature the degree of probability; unless this can be guarded against, what will the law avail? It can avail nothing. Besides, the higher the duty is laid, the more you expose the officer to the temptation of being corrupted; when that is done, the revenue will be very unproductive. Mr. MADISON.-The question is not whether the whole scale of duties agreed to in the committee shall be reduced, but whether the parti The fact which was men-cular duty on the article of spirit. I will not tioned by the gentleman from Jersey (Mr. Bou- differ with the gentleman altogether, and say that DINOT) has made a deep impression on my mind; none of the subsequent articles are too high to be from which I plainly foresee that, if the duty is collected with certainty, but I am not convinced laid too high, it will be an irresistible inducement by any thing yet said that fifteen cents per gallon to smuggling, and smuggling will take place; if is too much to be laid upon spirit of Jamaica smuggling does take place, it will probably tend proof. The gentleman from New York says, the more to corrupt the morals of the people than can example of the States has proved that high dube amended by restricting the use of rum. After ties are not expedient, and that this article does they once have a habit of smuggling, it is but not correspond with the rate they have fixed to chance whether lowering the duties would root it. The State Governments, no doubt, collected out the evil; for when once the business is estab- what duty they thought best, but it does not follished, and connexions formed, it will be easy to low that the General Government cannot collect carry it on for a less profit than it was before it more than the State Governments have done. had been got into train. It is said, that the sense The people adopted the new Constitution, I beof the people, and the combination of the mer-lieve, under a universal expectation that we chants, will assist the Government in the collection of the duty, and prevent smuggling. I have a high opinion of the merchants of America, and believe them to be a virtuous body of men; but I fear, like every other body of men, they may be induced to evade your laws if their interest is concerned in the event; and their interest will be concerned, if the profit from smuggling is likely to be considerable, after defraying the charge of risk. But there can be no absolute reliance on circumstances of this nature; our reliance ought to be on the law; and if the law does not take effectual means to secure the collection, we are not to expect our citizens will do it. I think, then, before we get through the impost bill, we should collect higher duties; we must do this, I believe, if we mean to avoid direct taxation, which was always a mean of revenue in the particular States. But with respect to what the States have judged expedient to be derived from this source, let us turn to authentic acts; they will neither deceive nor mislead us. We find, in Massachusetts, one-sixth of a dollar laid some years ago; if it did not succeed, was it not owing to the inauspicious policy of the neighboring States? In Pennsylvania the consumer of rum pays to Government ten pence a gallon. The same gentleman has said, that our laws ought to be such as to execute themselves, and not depend upon the support of the people; now APRIL, 1789.] Duties on Imports. [H. OF R. Ordered, That the said bill, with the amendments, be engrossed, and read the third time on Monday next. the formal reception of the President in the Senate Chamber, he be attended by both Houses to the Representatives' Chamber, and that the oath be administered by the Chancellor of this State. I cannot discern how the law can execute itself without the support of the people, therefore I think it right to place the dependence where I have imagined it will be well supported. It was Mr. BENSON, from the committee appointed to also remarked, that smuggling depraves the morals consider of the time, place, and manner in which, of the people. If we are to consider the effect of and of the person by whom the oath prescribed our laws in this point of view, (laying aside the by the Constitution shall be administered to the cerruption which the general use of rum occa-President of the United States, and to confer with sions,) let us consider what will be the effect of a a committee of the Senate for the purpose, redeficiency in the revenue, by the proposed reduc- ported as followeth : tion of the impost; and no gentleman has suggest- "That the President hath been pleased to signify to ed a substitute for this defalcation, nor pretends them, that any time or place which both Houses may that we shall raise more than we want. What, think proper to appoint, and any manner which shall then, will be the consequence? Lessening the appear most eligible to them, will be acceptable to him: impost will prevent the Government from per- that requisite preparations cannot probably be made forming its engagements, and doing justice to its before Thursday next: that the President be on that creditors. Have we not seen the turpitude of day formally received by both Houses in the Senate such conduct, and the consequent contamination Chamber; that the Representatives' Chamber being of morals? Examine both sides, and say which capable of receiving the greater number of persons, of those evils is most to be deprecated. But if that therefore the President do take the oath in that people are disposed to enter into a system of smug-place, and in the presence of both Houses; that after gling, they will find a better interest in running fine goods with only five or ten per cent. than in such a bulky and inconvenient article as rum at thirty per cent. A worthy gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. WADSWORTH) Suspects that there is not money enough in the country to pay the duties. If there is any dearth of money, let us take measures to prevent the importation of rum, and then we may get money for our produce, and soon supply the vacancy. I cannot believe the virtue of our citizens is so weakly fortified as not to resist the impression which a seeming interest may make; their conduct under the British Gov- House, pursuant to the said report. ernment in the article of smuggling, is no proof to me of a natural disposition to evade a just tax; they conceived themselves at that time oppress ed by a nation in whose councils they had no share, and the resistance on this principle was justified to their consciences; but as the case is altered, so that each has an equal voice in every regulation, I do not despair of a great revolution in sentiment in this particular, when it is known and understood that the man who wounds the honor of his country by a baseness in defrauding the revenue, only exposes his neighbors to further and greater impositions. Under this impression, I trust the great body of the people will unite and drive out smuggling from our country. Mr. FITZSIMONS observed to the House, that the decision of the present question, in his mind, involved some very important alterations in the present measure; the consequences resulting from which ought to be well considered. In order, therefore to gain time for this purpose, he would move an adjournment; whereupon the House adjourned. SATURDAY, April 25. The House, according to the order of the day, received the report from the Committee of the whole House, to the bill to regulate the taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by the sixth article of the Constitution; and the amendments to the said bill being read and amended at the Clerk's table, were agreed to by the House. "The committee further report it as their opinion, that it will be proper that a committee of both Houses be appointed to take order for further conducting the ceremonial." The said report was twice read; and, on the question put thereon, agreed to by the House. Ordered, That Messrs. BENSON, AMES, and CARROLL be. .a committee on the part of this DUTIES ON IMPORTS. The House then resumed the consideration of the resolutions respecting the impost, as reported by the Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union. The motion made yesterday by Mr. BOUDINOT for reducing the impost on spirits from fifteen to twelve cents per gallon, was put and lost. Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, stated, that there was propriety in discriminating on the article of spirits between nations in and not in alliance with us; for which reason he proposed that a duty of six cents per gallon be laid on all spirit of Jamaica proof imported from the dominions of nations in alliance. Mr. LEE observed, that a preference was given to our allies in the tonnage; if more was necessary to be done, he would rather do it in that way, than by making such alterations in the system as would give a preference to the articles individually which America takes from them. Mr. LAWRENCE.-French brandy, I take it, is as destructive to the morals and health of the people as West India rum; therefore the argument drawn from that consideration does not apply in favor of reducing the duty on the former. If we pay for French brandy in the produce of our country, we do the same for West India rum; therefore that argument is not more favorable to the one than to the other. I believe, in short, every argument that applies in one, will apply in both instances; whether, therefore, it respects the morals of the people, commerce, or revenue, there is no reason for the reduction, unless it be on the principle that the whole of the duties are too high, and it is proposed to lower them generally. But one observation further may be necessary, to show the effect a partial reduction may have upon the revenue; if brandy can be imported at a less price than rum, the consumption will increase, and in proportion as the consumption of brandy increases, that of West India rum will diminish; if the importation of West India rum is lessened, the revenue will lose all the difference between the duty on that article and French brandy. [APRIL, 1789. nations may or might be taught to pay us that respect which they have neglected on account of our former imbecility. This language and these sentiments are the language and sentiments of our constituents. The great political revolution now brought about, by the organization of the new Government, has its foundation in these sentiments. Sensible of the selfish policy which actuated a nation long disposed to do all she could to discourage our commercial operations, the States singly attempted to counteract her ne farious schemes; but, finding their separate exer tions ineffectual, with a united voice they called for a new arrangement, constituted to concentrate, Mr. FITZSIMONS thought, when the discrimina- conduct, and point their powers, so as to obtain tion was agreed to in the article of tonnage, as that reciprocity which justice demands. The ar much was done as the House could be disposed rangement has taken place, and though gentle at this time to do, it was certainly enough to men may contend that we are not at this moment manifest the good disposition of the United States prepared to use it in the latitude I could wish, yet towards those nations it was intended to befriend; let them concur in doing what shall indicate, that, perhaps it was doing as much as commercial on a proper occasion, we dare exert ourselves in principles would warrant. At any rate, the defeating any measure which commercial policy measure would lessen the revenue without giv-shall offer hostile to the welfare of America. The ing any material preference, and therefore was mere showing such a disposition, at this time, may improper. have a good effect. I believe such a discriminaMr. PAGE thought that brandy was a more tion as is proposed will be a manifestation of that wholesome spirit than any other; but if it was not disposition; but perhaps a less discrimination may wholesome, it was less noxious, and on that ac-effect the business as well as a large one; if so, I count merited more favor. But the real principle on which the motion was founded, was certainly a discrimination favorable to our allies, and on this account he would support it. Mr. FITZSIMONS reminded the House, that the French had already, by the vote of the committee, a very considerable advantage in the article of wine. The French wines were frequently of the most superior quality, and yet were subjected only to an equal duty with the lowest from other countries. would rather brandy should be reduced two or three cents below West India rum, and then the revenue would be but little diminished, and the consumption could not be supposed to increase considerably. tonnage is not sufficient for that purpose, I would rather make a discrimination on any other article than ardent spirits, the importation of which does not deserve encouragement from any part of the world. Mr. SHERMAN. The probable amount of the duties we have agreed to, will not, in my opinion, exceed two millions of dollars. This sum is insufficient to answer the public exigencies, therefore I should be sorry to reduce much upon any article. In this case it is not intended, perhaps, to Mr. MADISON.-Discriminations, however small, make a great reduction; it is only to show a premay have a good political effect; even a differ-ference to our allies; but if the discrimination on ence of one cent on brandy may have a tendency to advance the interest of the United States. I differ essentially from the gentleman from New York (Mr. LAWRENCE) on the subject of preference. I think we have a great deal in our power by this policy, if we make a right use of it. I wish to teach those nations who have declined to enter into commercial treaties with us, that we have the power to extend or withhold advantages as their conduct shall deserve. If the situation of our country and our public wants admitted the experiment, I should interdict the importation of rum altogether, until we should be allowed to carry to the West India islands, in our own vessels, the produce of America, which necessity compels them to take. In any case, where we have made a treaty to open all our ports to the vessels of a nation, without stipulating for reciprocal advantages, I agree we must abide by it; but where we have entered into no stipulations, I would give no encouragement unless equal advantages were obtained on our side. We have now the power to avail ourselves of our natural superiority, and I am for beginning with some manifestation of that ability, that foreign Mr. LAWRENCE.-It seems to be admitted that the supply from the impost will not effectually answer the demands of the United States, and that the article of rum is to be principally relied upon for raising revenue. These considerations induced the House not to agree with the motion of the gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. BOUDI NOT) for reducing distilled spirits. Gentlemen who urged those considerations are now advocating the reduction of the duty of other spirits of equal proof. The natural consequence of this measure must be to encourage the importation of the latter, and limit the importation of the other. Will not this diminish the revenue? And do gentlemen come forward with a substitute which will provide for the deficiency? I say, if the consumption of Jamaica spirit is lessened, that of brandy will be increased, and we lessen our revenue in order to pay tribute to our allies; to manifest our regard at a great expense to ourselves; but APRIL, 1789.] Duties on Imports. [H. of R. inasmuch as it affects the revenue, and engages us in commercial hostilities. If the House only makes a diminution of two cents per gallon, and it should change the consumption from rum to brandy, it will be a very considerable loss on four million gallons-it will be eighty thousand dollars annually. nevertheless, we are told it is proper to do it, and the public sentiment of our country is in favor of the measure, though it is contrary to the principle of interest which governs all nations. When it is a proper time to make these discriminations, I shall not be against it; but the United States are not in a condition at present to engage in a commercial warfare. Such regulations as these Mr. MADISON.-I did not rightly comprehend will be met with other regulations by the nation the gentleman who has just sat down, when he against which they are aimed, and they will pro- supposed the discrimination which is moved for bably operate with more severity on us than ours to be merely the payment of a tax or tribute to can upon them. I feel myself impressed with as our allies, and, therefore, cannot reply particularlively a sense of gratitude to the French nation ly to what I did not comprehend; but I acknowlfor their important services during the late Revo-edge with pleasure the services America derived lution, as any man; yet I have an equal affection from that nation, and I admit the justice of the for the interests of my country; and before I ac- debt we owe her; but I never meant that the precede to a measure like the present, I ask this ference we are inclined to show her, in common question-whether we are in such a condition as with nations with which we have commercial to make it necessary for the United States to pay treaties, should be considered as a tribute to our tribute to our allies? For what are these sacrí- allies; I consider it rather as a lesson to those Powfices to be made? Is our commerce on such a ers that are not within that description. If it refavorable footing with them as to require this duces the revenue, it is a good object so far as manifestation of regard on our parts? We have the reduction goes; if it is reduced one or two the privilege of entering with our vessels into cents, it will have no sensible effect upon the some particular ports in the West Indies, but the amount of the duties collected from distilled advantage is but small, and we have done some-spirits. In Virginia, brandy from France, imthing on tonnage to show our sense of the favor; ported in either French or American bottoms, is surely gentlemen will admit it is sufficient, and not clear of duty, whilst the duty on rum is six pence call upon us for more, if they compare the actual per gallon that money. There have not, howbenefit derived from our commerce with Britain, ever, been imported more than 10,000 gallons anto the real advantages afforded by the French nually, till very lately, and now it amounts to but trade. We can export any of our produce to 12,000, while the quantity of West India rum is England in our own bottoms, and it pays no from 500,000 to 600,000. This tends to show the higher duty than if it was carried in British ves- proportion the two articles bear to each other, sels; we export our produce to the British West and the effect it would have on the revenue. India islands, but it is in their vessels; it is the The gentleman supposes that a difference of one policy of that nation to improve her maritime im- or two cents will change the consumption from portance by navigation laws, giving a preference rum to brandy; but commercial people do not to her own shipping. Can we export our produce suddenly alter their operations. Besides, the to France, or the French West Indies, on such habits and prejudices of the community are not good terms? Then the preference, in a com- easily removed; the habit of using rum is so mercial view, is on the other side. The ex- fixed, that it will perhaps take more than a cenportation of iron, lumber, and potash to Britain tury to change it to another object-hence the evil, is very considerable; but we are told these arti- which the gentleman contemplates as resulting cles cannot be got elsewhere, yet they are fre- from the present measure must be remote indeed. quently imported into England from other coun- But I am clearly of opinion, that a discriminatries, but subjected to a much higher duty than tion will have the most salutary effects; it will If Britain was to oblige our article to pay redound both to the honor and interest of America similar duties, it would soon counterbalance every to give some early token of our capacity and disgood we promise ourselves from discrimination. position to exert ourselves to obtain a reciprocity True it is, we have a right to regulate our comin trade. merce, and declare the terms upon which foreigners shall trade among us, but we ought to consider the expediency of exercising our powers so as not to give umbrage to a nation from whose policy we derive considerable advantage, especially as we are not in a condition to wage a war of commercial regulations with her. There may a time come, and soon, when our tonnage shall be increased, and our manufactures improved, so as to enable us to come forward with regulations adverse to the commerce of that nation. At present, I deem such measures impolitic; but when the moment of our improvement arrives, I shall be as well disposed to enter on that business as any gentleman. At this time, it is certainly impolitic, ours. Let us review the policy of Great Britain towards us. Has she ever shown any disposition to enter into reciprocal regulations? Has she not, by a temporising policy, plainly declared that until we are able and willing to do justice to ourselves, she will shut us out from her ports, and make us tributary to her? Have we not seen her taking one legislative step after another to destroy our commerce? Has not her Legislature given discretionary powers to the Executive, that so she might be ever on the watch, and ready to seize every advantage the weakness of our situation might expose? Have we not reason to believe she will continue a policy void of regard to us, whilst she can continue to gather into her lap the H. OF R.] Duties on Imports. [APRIL, 1789. benefits we feebly endeavor to withhold, and for I will not enlarge on this subject; but it must be apparent to every gentleman, that we possess Mr. FITZSIMONS was firmly of opinion, that the trade of the United States was of so much importance to Great Britain, that she would willingly grant our shipping reciprocal advantages in the West India ports rather than run the risk of losing it; he was entirely in sentiment with the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. MADISON,) that it would be possible to meet that nation with regulations that would force her to open her West India ports. If the importation of rum was to be prohibited to any considerable degree, it would produce this effect; for if it was not for the market the United States afforded for the consumption of rum, the sugar colonies would not be worth keeping; the rum alone bears the whole expense of cultivation. The quantity consumed in other parts is but small, so that a measure of this kind would have the most desirable effect; but how far it would be politic, at this moment, to adopt a severe remedy for the evil, was doubtful; it is, perhaps, much better to make only a small discrimination for the present. It has been said that Great Britain receives all the produce of this country in our own bottoms. I believe that in some ports of that kingdom our vessels are admitted, but those in the West Indies, into which we want admission most, are closely barred against us; but the reason that she admits us is, because it is necessary to repay herself for her exports to this country, and to constitute herself a market for this and the European nations. Adventitious causes have drawn within the commercial vortex of her policy almost all the trade of America; and the productions of the most distant climes, consumed among us, are tributary to her revenue. As long, therefore, as we do not protect ourselves, and endeavor to restore the stream of commerce to its natural channel, we shall find no relaxation on the part of Britain; the same obnoxious policy will be pursued while we submissively bear the impression. This is a copious subject, and leads to serious and import-a ant reflections. After what has passed, I am certain that there is a disposition to make a discrimination, to teach the nations that are not in alliance with us that there is an advantage to be gained by the connexion; to give some early symptom of the power and will of the new Government to redress our national wrongs, must be productive of benefit. We soon shall be in a condition, we now are in a condition, to wage a commercial warfare with that nation. The produce of this country is more necessary to the rest of the world than that of other countries is to America. If we were disposed to hazard the experiment of interdicting the intercourse between us and the Powers not in alliance, we should have overtures of the most advantageous kind tendered by those nations. If we have the disposition, we have abundantly the power to vindicate our cause. Let us but show the world that we know justly how to consider our commercial friends and commercial adversaries. Let us show, that if a war breaks out in Europe, and is extended and carried on in the West Indies, we can treat with friendship and succor the one, while we can shut the other out of our ports. By these favors, without entering into the contest, or violating the law of nations, or even the privilege of neutrals, we can give the most decided advantage. He would not repeat the observation he had made on a former occasion, to show the policy of similar measure, but would just add, that Great Britain took nothing from America which she could procure as cheap elsewhere, and there can be but very little danger that she will do any thing to make those articles cost the consumer more money; and any obstacles she might throw in to embarrass that part of our commerce must inevitably have that effect. Mr. SMITH, of Maryland, in reply to the gentleman from New York, (Mr. LAWRENCE,) who had said that the British admitted all the produce of America into the ports of England, would call to the recollection of the committee a very considerable production which was restricted, unless it exceeded a certain rate in that kingdom-it is wheat and flour; besides, our vessels are always subjected to higher duties than British. For these reasons he hoped the clause would prevail. The motion then for agreeing to the discriminating clause was put and carried, and the duties were ordered to be, on all spirits of Jamaica proof imported from nations in alliance, twelve cents per gallon; on all other spirits from the same nations, ten cents. Mr. BOUDINOT moved to reduce the duty on Madeira wine, from an apprehension that it would be injurious to the commerce of the United States. The observations he had made on a former occasion respecting the amount of the duty, |