ciously adhere to that sum, if it be thought too high; but I presume I am right in the principle upon which I contend, that we ought to collect the duty on the importation of molasses, in preference to any other way.

[APRIL, 1789.

was reducible to this, whether our revenue should be lessened as much as distilled spirits confessedly ought to pay, and our country, consequently, filled with a baser liquor, or whether we shall tax an article which will indirectly tax the rum manufactured from it in due proportion to what is brought from the islands.

Mr. PARKER observed, that the distilleries made a very great profit on the manufacture of this article, and it would be increased by the difference I do not conceive (continued Mr. MADISON) which was made in duty between it and West that the quantity of this article manufactured and India rum. He was an advocate for laying it on exported to foreign countries, is any wise considermolasses, because he did not think this a proper able. I find by an account of the exports of Mastime to enter upon an excise law; if the duty op-sachusetts, (which appears to be authentic,) and erated to discourage the consumption of New England rum, he thought it would have very happy consequences; he therefore seconded the motion for eight cents.

it is a State that manufactures in full proportion to any other State in the Union, that there have been shipped off to different parts of this country. 49,943 gallons of rum manufactured there; to Nova Scotia, 801 gallons; to Europe, 1,206; and to Africa and the East Indies, 897 gallons.

е

Mr. LAWRENCE.-Shall we, Mr. Chairman, tax articles which are necessaries of life equal ly as if they were luxuries? I apprehend not. So that the great exportation which the gentleIn some parts of the United States, this article man from New York mentions, is made to the is used as a necessary among the poorer class different parts of the United States, and not to at of citizens; consequently, if you tax it high, foreign countries; the duty, therefore, will be you unequally burden that part of the commu-principally paid by our own citizens, who are the nity who are least able to bear it. When the consumers. The gentleman has mentioned a Congress of 1783 had it in contemplation to tax drawback as a relief to the manufacturers. He this article, I believe they did not propose more does not, perhaps, consider the advantage which than one penny. Perhaps the change that has a general regulation of trade gives to the State taken place since that time would warrant us to manufacturing rum. The admission of that comdouble that sum. For my part, I should be will-modity into every State is perfectly free under ing to allow it, but the honorable gentleman from the new Constitution, and unencumbered with Virginia proposes four times as much as I judge the duties heretofore laid by the State Legisla to be proper. If it could be collected, it would tures; from which, it is manifest that a drawamount to a very large sum; but let us examine back, so far as relates to the coasting trade, is the probability there is of being able to do it. unnecessary. I think, also, that the small quanWhen you compare the tax with the price of the tity exported to Europe and Africa is too inconcommodity, leaving out the consideration of its siderable to justify the Legislature in allowing being a necessary of life, you find it is one to drawbacks, under which system great frauds can three. I ask gentlemen to tell me candidly, will easily be committed upon your revenue: to what not the payment of the duty be evaded? And purpose shall we collect revenue, if it is put in shall we not deceive ourselves in calculating the power of every individual clandestinely to upon a revenue which we can never collect? reclaim it, without a possibility of our discovering the injustice?

I believe, if I am well informed on this subject, the tax which I propose will amount to about forty thousand dollars, so great is the importation of this article. By the tax the honorable gentleman proposes, it would amount to one hundred and sixty thousand, which, I fear, is more than can or ought to be collected.

If a discrimination can be suggested, I shall readily agree to it; but I think it cannot be done unless we substitute an excise, or a tax on stills, neither of which would be equally convenient or productive, and therefore neither would be proper for the House to agree to. The proportion This article, as was before observed, is a raw between the duty on country rum at eight cents, material for manufacture, and which, when dis- and West India at twelve cents, is a considerable tilled, is exported in considerable quantities. If difference in favor of home-made spirits, and a heavy duty is laid, will it not prevent the ex-sufficient to answer the purpose of protecting the portation? But, should we even allow a draw-manufacture. back on what is exported, it will, nevertheless, Mr. FITZSIMONS.-I think the duty on this considerably encumber the trade by obliging the article depends, in a great measure, upon what merchant to advance much of his capital in du- has been already agreed to. If the tax of West ties, and will still remain an oppression to the India and country rum is not well proportioned, poor, who consume it in substance. it may be destructive of the end we have in conMr. MADISON viewed the present question in templation. If, agreeably to the idea of the gentwo points of light. First, as it respected the man from New York, we affix a low duty, a great use of the article in the substance; and second, deal more rum will, in all probability, be distilled as it related to a manufacture of considerable im- and used than heretofore; of course, it will effectportance. If it was possible to make a discrimi-ually rival the Jamaica rum, and the Union will nation between them, he was ready to agree to one in favor of the first class; but, conceiving this to be impracticable, he thought the question

lose the revenue which we calculate upon. Eight cents, I apprehend, is as well proportioned to the other taxes as can be devised. Country rum is

APRIL, 1789.]

Duties on Imports.

worth two shillings and three pence, which is more than half the price of Jamaica spirits, so that rum of the former quality can be used so much cheaper, as to establish itself a greater consumption than heretofore. It has been mentioned 3 as a necessary of life; the fact is admitted; but shall it be inferred from thence that no duty ought to be collected from molasses, while you impose one on sugar, which is equally a necessary of life among the middle and southern States; although the remark has been made already, I must repeat it, and beg the committee to bear in mind, that whenever a tax on a particular article seems to bear harder on one State than another, we must endeavor to equalize it by laying some other to restore an equilibrium to the system.

[H. of R.

Mr. THATCHER.-It appears to me, that for the want of a certain and fixed principle to act upon, there is a great danger of making some improper establishments. It is for this reason that I wish not to hurry on the business with so much precipitation. Did gentlemen consider, when they agreed to a high duty on ardent spirits, that it would be a pretext for increasing the duties on a necessary of life? I presume a principal reason why a high tax on spirits was admitted, was in order to discourage the use of it among ourselves. If this was the intention of the committee, I have no objection to the burden; but, even here, I fear difficulties will arise. Did we judiciously examine whether the spirit of the law accords with the habits and manners of the people? and did we assure ourselves of the full execution of the law? If we did not, the act becomes impolitic, because a law which cannot be executed, tends to make the Government less respectable.

Mr. GOODHUE considered molasses as a raw material, essentially requisite for the well being of a very extensive and valuable manufacture. It ought likewise to be considered (as was truly stated) a necessary of life. In the eastern States Consider molasses as a raw material, and, on it entered into the diet of the poorer class of peo- this account, you cannot agree to burden it with ple, who were, from the decay of trade and other an unequal tax; consider it as a necessary of life, adventitious circumstances, totally unable to sus-entering daily into the consumption of the lower tain such a weight as a tax of eight cents would be upon them. Moreover, the tax was upon particular States as well as individuals, for it was a fact of public notoriety, that Massachusetts imported more molasses than all the other States together. She imports from 30,000 to 40,000 hogsheads annually. He would make one observation more. It had been the policy of Great Britain, as he well remembered, to encumber and depress the distillation of molasses. To do this, at one time they laid a duty of three pence sterling per gallon. It was conceived to be an oppressive measure, but it had little other effect than to cause heart-burnings and enmity. It produced no revenue, and the Parliament were forced to reduce the duty to a penny. From experience, therefore, as well as from the arguments before urged, he was inclined to believe that the committee would be satisfied with fixing a lower sum. He could not consent to allow more than

two cents.

Mr. MADISON had heard an observation made by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, which he thought lessened the force of the objection taken against taxing molasses as a necessary of life. Those who used it in substance escaped the tax on sugar, at least so much of it as the one was a substitute for the other. He feared that there was no other way of coming at the duty on country rum, but laying one on the material from which it was extracted, and he did not think eight cents out of the way.

Mr. GOODHUE replied, that eight cents was nearly half the first cost, and consequently disproportioned to the tax on foreign rum. He also observed, that the gentleman from Virginia, when he was stating the rum exported abroad, must surely have read wrong, for to his certain knowledge, several vessels were principally loaded with this article every year.*

class of people, and the duty on it ought to be extremely low. I do not see how we are to get clear of this embarrassment, unless we rescind what we have already done; because, if the principle for taxing ardent spirits be to lessen the consumption, in order to preserve the health and morals of the people, it will apply as forcibly to tax country rum eight cents, as is now proposed, as it did to tax Jamaica rum fifteen cents. I am not an enemy to making the impost the principal instrument of revenue, yet I fear we have not proceeded with due deliberation. It was my wish to take up the subject, as has been frequently mentioned, and form a law on the most simple principles, leaving time, information, and reflection, to form a system of impost, on more extensive and particular principles, fitted equally to affect the whole and every part of the Union.

For these reasons, I shall move, if I am in order, to take up the resolution of Congress of 1783, and lay on duties as nearly similar as can well be to those recommended at that period; and then move for a committee to go on to review and consider of certain regulations necessary to form a permanent system at some future period.

Mr. CLYMER.-The advocates for a low duty repeatedly mention this article as a raw material necessary to support a considerable manufacture; but do they consider that the consumption of country rum is attended with an injury to a much more valuable manufacture, the raw material for which is furnished by our own agriculture, and which is divested of the pernicious qualities attached to ardent spirits-I mean the manufacture of malt liquors?

Mr. AMES.-I have not had the advantage of

stands thus: "Country rum-hogsheads shipped to the several parts of the United States, 5,327, value £49,943; to Nova Scotia, 89 hogsheads, value £801; to Europe, 134 hogsheads, value £1,206; and to Africa This article, in the exports from Massachusetts, and the East Indies, 897 hogsheads, value £8,073."

hearing all the arguments in support of the eight cents proposed; but those I have heard I am not satisfied with. The principles on which this tax is founded, I understand to be this: that it is an article of luxury, and of pretty general consumption, so that the duty is expected to fall equally upon all; but that it will not operate in this manner, I think is easily demonstrable. Can a duty of fifty per cent. ad valorem, paid, as it were, in an exclusive manner, by the State of Massachusetts, be equal? No, sir. But taking it as a part of the general system, can it be equal unless a proportionable duty, equal to fifty per cent. is laid upon articles consumed in other parts of the Union? No, sir; and is it in the contemplation of gentlemen to lay duties so high as to produce this equality? I trust it is not; because such duties could never be collected. Is not, therefore, eight cents disproportioned to the rates fixed, or intended to be imposed on other articles? I think it is; and, if to these considerations we add what has been said before, relative to its being a raw material important to a considerable manufacture, we cannot hesitate to reject it.

The people will indubitably continue to use ardent spirits, until the slow operation of the law shall produce other habits; and while they continue to use them, it is better for this country that they use the kind which is wished to be indirectly taxed. It must be better, because it is manufactured within ourselves, and gives useful employment to a considerable number of our fellowcitizens. It must be better because the goods which we export for the raw materials, are drugs upon our hands. Certainly the trade is mutually beneficial to the parties concerned; but it is so in a greater degree to us than to them. We exchange for molasses, those fish that it is impossible to dispose of any where else; we have no market within our reach, but the islands from whence we get molasses in return, which again we manufacture into rum. These circumstances form a material link in our chain of navigation, and upon our success in navigation the most important interests of the United States depend. It is scarcely possible to maintain our fisheries with advantage, if the commerce for summer fish is injured, which I conceive it would be very materially, if a high duty is imposed upon this article; nay it would carry devastation throughout all the New England States, it would ultimately affect all throughout the Union. Will gentlemen who declare themselves the friends of manufactures, support the opinion, that a raw material ought to be saddled with an excessive duty, that the imposition should be at a higher rate than what is laid upon manufactured articles; at a time too when the price is such that the home manufacture cannot support a successful competition with the other, even in our own markets? No, gentlemen will not be so inconsistent: they know and advocate the policy of supporting the manufactures of our country, by giving them such advantages as are consistent with the general good.

I shall proceed to show the importance of the

[APRIL, 1789.

present subject, in another point of light. The taking of fish on the Banks is a very momentous concern, it forms a nursery for seamen, and this will be the source from which we are to derive maritime importance. It is the policy of some nations to drive us from this prolific source of wealth and strength; but what their detestable efforts have in vain endeavored to do, you will accomplish by a high duty on this article. Our situation with respect to the fishing banks, and our vicinity to the West India Islands, are natural advantages, which all the machinations of jeal ousy cannot prevent us the enjoyment of. The habits of our fishermen are well calculated to improve these advantages to perfection, and no nation can carry on the business at so small an expense; it is these circumstances that render our fish cheap, while this cheapness insures us a sale, and enables us to be successful competitors in every port that will receive us. Our best fish will find its way to the best markets, while the slaves in the West Indies will consume the refuse. If we can exchange that part, therefore, which would be otherwise thrown away, it is so much clear gain to the community. Hence, this country by increasing the demand of our fish increases the navigation; gentlemen will therefore be cautious how they adopt a measure that affects, or only seems to affect, one of the most important interests of the United States.

However gentlemen may think the use of this article dangerous to the health and morals of our fellow-citizens, I would also beg them to consider, that it is no more so than every other kind of spirituous liquors; that it will grow into an article for exportation; and although I admit we could export it even encumbered with the duty proposed, yet by it we run the risk of having the manufacture totally ruined, for it can hardly now stand a competition at home with the West India rum, much less can it do so abroad. If the manufacturers of country rum are to be devoted to certain ruin, to mend the morals of others, let them be admonished that they prepare themselves for the event: but in the way we are about to take, destruction comes on a sudden, they have not time to seek refuge in any other employment whatsoever. If their situation will not operate to restrain the hand of iron policy, consider how immediately they are connected with the most essential interests of the Union, and then let me ask if it is wise, if it is reconcilable to national prudence, to take measures subversive of your very existence? For I do contend, that the very existence of the eastern States depends upon the encouragement of their navigation and fishery, which receive a deadly wound by an excessive impost on the article before us.

I would concur in any measure calculated to exterminate the poison covered under the form of ardent spirits, from our country; but it should be without violence. I approve as much as any gentleman the introduction of malt liquors, believing them not so pernicious as the one in common use; but before we restrain ourselves to the use of them, we ought to be certain that we have

malt and hops, as well as brew-houses for the manufacture. Now I deny that we have these in sufficient abundance to the eastward; but if we had they are not taxed. Then why should the poor of Massachusetts be taxed for the beverage they use of spruce, molasses, and water-it surely is unreasonable. I hope gentlemen will not adopt the motion for eight cents until they are furnished with some better evidence of its propriety and policy than any that has yet been given, or as I suspect that can be given.

Mr. FITZSIMONS was pleased that gentlemen went so fully into the discussion of a subject which they conceived of great importance, but he begged them not to lose sight of an observation that had already been made, that whenever a particular duty was supposed to bear hard on any one member of the Union, it ought to be regarded as part only of a system bearing equally upon all. He was a friend to commerce, it was his particular profession, and what he had principally devoted his attention to; and therefore it might justly be imagined he was unwilling to fetter it with restraints; but as a member of this body, he cons idered it proper to forego a pertinacious adhesion to that system, when its interest came in com petition with the general welfare.

[H. OF R.

use sugar; now, if the people there pay a tax on that article, it is but distributive justice that the people of Massachusetts pay one on the article they use for the same purpose.

I do contend, that if a less, or much less duty on this article is laid, it will rival foreign rum so far as to prevent its importation in a considerable degree, whereby the United States will lose the revenue expected from it, or the operation of the tax will be unequal upon the consumer of sugar and molasses, which cannot certainly be the wish of any member, if I may judge from the conciliating disposition which is prevalent in the committee.

Mr. AMES stated the difference in the price of country rum and West India-the former was worth two shillings and three pence, the latter twice as much, so that there was not observed a proper ratio in taxing the one eight cents and the other twelve cents. He stated the difficulty of collecting so high a duty, and expressed an apprehension that the committee would deceive themselves in calculating upon it for any great production. He was satisfied it would hereafter become necessary to lower the duty from eight cents, if the committee should now agree to lay it, and appealed to their wisdom, if it was not better, and The gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. AMES) less injurious to the fair trader at any time, to inhas represented the proposed regulation as tend-crease than diminish the duties. This circuming eventually to the ruin of the commerce, fish- stance demanded the attention of the committee, eries, and manufactures of that State. I do not though he would not press it further, being satisbelieve (added he) such a consequence would re-fied that gentlemen's candor would induce them sult from a duty of eight cents on a gallon of to acknowledge the propriety of such policy. molasses; if I did, I would be one of the last to advocate the measure; but to understand this circumstance more fully, let us proceed to an inquiry of the ground on which we stand. The State of Massachusetts imports a greater proportion of this article than any other in the Union; she will have therefore (say the opponents of the measure) to pay exclusively all the impost upon it. Let us examine this. Some part of the molasses is consumed in the substance, but all the remainder is distilled: this must either be consumed in the State, or exported from it; in the latter case, I propose that all the rum shipped to foreign nations should draw back the duties it had paid as molasses. This would obviate all that was said relative to the competition between this State and other nations at a foreign market. As to what is exported but consumed in some parts of the United States, it is but proper that a duty All he wished on the present occasion, was to should be paid; and although it may be advanced lay such a duty as should protect the manufacin the first instance by the people of Massachu-ture. He feared no loss to the revenue; because setts, yet it will be ultimately paid by the consu- if the duty was low, all molasses would be entermers in other parts. ed and paid for, whereas if it was high, it would What is consumed within the State itself, gen-induce an illicit trade, as injurious to the morals tlemen surely do not mean to have excluded from a duty. If they consume more country rum than West India, they pay a less duty than those States which consume a greater proportion of the latter. As to what is used in its raw, unmanufactured state, it will be sufficient to observe, that it is generally a substitute for sugar, the consumers will therefore avoid the tax on that article, and pay it on the other. In Pennsylvania they mostly

He had mentioned before the devastation which he conceived likely to take place, if a high duty was laid on this article. The observation was thought by the gentleman who spoke last, to be altogether without foundation; he hoped it was. But here his reason and wishes were at variance. He was convinced that the fishery had for some years past been very unproductive; not but that the fish were to be had in plenty, and the fishermen's abilities were equal to any other in the world; but because they could not find a market to dispose of the product of his labor. He was pretty certain the trade would have been abandoned by many who have carried on a losing trade, had it not been for the hope that a more energetic Government would be framed, which would give them that support which the importance of the subject required.

of the people as the consumption of our country rum. In addition, he considered it a necessary of life, and would never consent to tax it fifty per cent. upon its value, nor did he believe any other gentleman would, if considered that the tax would operate more against the poor than the rich, because the poor were the principal consumers of the article.

Mr. GOODHUE.-Fifteen cents, the sum laid on