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without the interposition of the strong even charged, did any man venture to powers of the law. (Hear, hear.) Was charge them, with having demanded this the encouragenient which the more than the law assigned them ? House was prepared to hold forth? (Cheers from the Opposition.) He Was it the pleasure of the House to say, knew not whether he was to interpret that because the province of Leinster those cheers as an intimation that the was disturbed, while Connaught was clergy were liable to the charge (retranquil, while Ulster was tranquil, newed cheers from the Opposition); whilst Munster was tranquil, while but this he knew, that his hon. friend all England was obedient io the law, the member for Armagh, in moving his and Leinster alone had revolted resolution on a former night, had dishe could use no phrase less strong than tinctly stated that the clergy were not revolted--against the law, that for that to blame. Every passage in the evireason they were to take money out of dence which would be before those the public purse, for the purpose of hon. Gentlemen who só loudly cheered putting into the pockets of those very showed that the clergy, as a body, never persons by whose misconduct the loss were exorbitant in their demands. If had been occasioned ? Was the House the inquiry were pushed to its utinost prepared to say, that it would pay extent, the conclusion which it would

for resisting the law, and suggest, as to the burden upon the octhat, while peaceable men had no cupier of the soil, would not be very unremedy for their losses, turbulent favourable to the clergy in comparison and violent persons should receive with any other body. He stated, withinstantaneous relief? He did not out fear of contradiction, that whereas think that the people of Ireland, of in England it was notorious that the tranquil Ireland, were prepared to hold tithe amounted to one-fifth part of the out such an opinion. But if they were rent, and the rent was fairly calculated to relieve the clergy, who were reduced at one-fifth of the produce, from all the to this distress by no fault of their own evidence, and from the tables which (cheers from the opposition benches), wouid be found in the papers, and he wished here to inake a distinction. figures which could not be mistaken, in He knew he had been asked, in oppo- Irelanı, the calculation was, that the sition to relieving the clergy at all, what tenant had a fair interest in the land, he would do it there were a general re- not only if he was charged with all resistance to the payment of landlords' pairs, all buildings, and all improverents? Now he could conceive a case ments, but if the landlord did not where, if the whole population of a dis- wring from himn more than one-third or trict rose up in arms, and refused to pay two-fifths of the produce; and he aprents, it would be the duly of the legis- pealed to the papers whether he was not

“ We will relieve the correct in stating that, so far from the "landlords, and enforce the authority tithes amounting to one-twelfth of the " of the law.” But he granted that, if gross produce, the value of the tithe by local grievances, by exorbitant rents, which was even professed to be collectand oppressive proceedings, the land- ed-setting aside bad debts and arrears lords had driven the population to acts which were never paid-did not amount, of outrage and violence, the landlords he would not say to one-tenth of the would then have no case to come before produce, but even to one-tenth or oneParliament (cheers), or if they did come fifteenth ; and he believed, in the whole they would be spurned and scouted from of Ireland, not to one-twentieth part of the doors of that house. But was this the rent. (Hear, hear.) He asked them applicable to the clergy of Ireland ? upon what ground a charge could be (Cheers.) Was it they who fixed the made against the clergy -- in the teeth amount which they were to receive? of evidence and facts--of being exorbiDid they impose an exorbiiant sum on tant in their demands. He returned, the occupier of the land ? Were they then, to the proposition which he had

lature to say,

been proceeding to consider. In what which he should propose on the present manner was it expedient that the sum occasion was the same. But then he due to the clergy should be levied? might be told that they were using To him it appe:ured consonant with all coercive means, and arming the Gorational ideas of justice and good go-vernment with a dangerous authority, vernment that the sum, if levied, should by taking from the clergymen the rebe levied from those who ought to have medy which he ought to possess, and paid it without any legislative interte-placing it in the hands of a powerful rence. Well, then, what was the course body-the Slate itself. He must obwhich his Majesty's Government pro- serve here that the charges of extraorposed to pursue, and which had been dinary severity, and of enforcing the already pursued in similar cases (for si- payment of tithes at the point of the milar cases had arisen upon foriner bayonet, and all such violent language, occasions)? He begged the House to was totally inapplicable to the measures look at the peculiar nature of the resist- proposed by his Majesty's Government, ance in this case. There were prece- and only tended to prejudice the House dents in 1786, 1787, 1799, and 1800, and the country unjustly against them. and on those occasions-although he (Hear.) He said that, if it was right to did not mea:) to say that they were enforce the payment of tithes at all, the alike in all their circumstances-God |course proposed by his Majesty's Goforbid that he should say the cases were vernment, while it would be effective parallel !--but owing to the disturbed was the most lenient, the.

most state of various parts of Ireland, the indulgent, and the most mild towards clergy were, from the combinations those who were to be subjected to which were entered into, unable to as- its operation. They proposed to adsert or vindicate their claims. The op- vance to the clergyman a sum of money, position was to the previous proceed- forining a very small proportion of his ings, and there was this peculiarity in demands of arrears for a year, in consithe case of tithes--that a clergyman deration of receiving which he should had occasion to collect from a number surrender all his claims agai:ist his paof persons making small payments, and rishioners individually, and place the was consequently placed in a situation assertion of his rights in the hands of of peculiar difficulty by the expense and the Government. In this he deviated delay to which a combination to resist from the course pursued formerly, and payment exposed him. It was with re- he thought he should find no difficulty ference to the previous proceedings that in vindicating that deviation by this view former legislative measures had refer- of the case-that in former instances exence; and it was in that way that his traordinary encouragements and means Majesty's Government proposed now to were given to those who suffered froin legislate in the bill which would be the combinations to visit their own brought in, if the committee agreed to wrongs upon those from whom they these resolutions. On former occasions it had sustained thein. The present was, had been left to the clergy to dispense in his judgment, a more lenient and a with the notice which, according to more equitable plan. He would trust the ordinary forms of law, it was nothing-he would not say to private necessary to serve upon every parish- revenge, but to private irritation, or feelioner, and in serving which alnost all ings of retaliation or prejudice, but the scenes of violence, outrage, and would leave in the disinterested and inbloodshed occurred. Those measures different hands of Goveroment the enrendered a notice exhibited in some forcing such portion of the arrears as conspicuous place in the parish a suffi- they judged could be recovered from solcient intimation, on the part of the cler- vent tenants, without pressing upon the gyman, of his intention to enforce his laborious, industrious, and oppressed claims. This was the case on former classes of the people. The Government occasions, and to this extent the plan felt that they might, perhaps, be enabled

to do away with the litigation between no longer continue to form one of the clergyman and his parishioners, by such an Administration. God forbid placing itself in the condition in which that such an Administration should the former now stool, and by taking continue to occupy their places, or to such steps for the recovery of his arrears have the control of the affairs of the as he was unable to take himself; at country ! He had felt it therefore the same time allowing the two parties necessary to say this much in vindito come at once to the point at issue cation of the Government, and also in with the same evidence, in precisely the proof of the fact, that she measures same form, and before the same Court which they were about to adopt were in which their disputes were adjudicated; not, as was asserted, measures calcuand when it was proposed only to reco-lated to stir up further dissension, and ver the one year's arrears of tithes, the to provoke a civil war in Ireland. The Government by no means meant to next resolution which he had to offer, debar the clergy from recovering their was anterior arrears. He must, therefore, claim for Government the simple tribute expedient, in order to afford relief to the suf

“ That it is in the opinion of the committee which justice demanded to be awarded fering clergy in Ireland, that a sum of money to their intentions, and assert that. it be issued out of the Consolidated Fund, and was impossible for any measure-if placed at the disposition of the Lord Lieutethe law was to be vindicated, and Privy Council,' should be authorised to issue

nant of Ireland, who, under the advice of his if the House should deem it neces- such relief as may be judged necessary to the sary to put down the resistance which incumbents of benefices, of which the tithes was made to the exercise of just have been withheld, the sum of money adrights—he would repeat, it was impos- diminish in proportion as the iucume of each

vanced to each being so administered, as to sible to devise a plan that could be incumbent increased.” more lenient towards the refractory tenants, or be less open to the opposi- | The reason why the sum to be advanced tion which had been offered to it, before to each incumbent was to diminish in even it was known, than that measure proportion as his income increased, was, which the Goverument was about to that though all were, to a certain extent, adopt, and which had—he must says in great distress, yet the distress was somewhat prematurely—been stigma- much more severe on those clergymen tised as an attempt on their part to cram whose tithes did not amount to any the tithe system down the throats of the considerable sums, than on those whose Irish, at the point of the bayonet. (Hear.) incomes were nomirally larger; and, It was not the principle of the present therefore, it was felt that their case was Administration to ask for extraordinary more severe than the others. In return powers, although they had been urged for this assistance, and as a security for to do so by those very persons who now its repayment, the Government intended wished to use that desire as an argu- to propose that his Majesty should be ment against them ; but he felt that the authorised by those clergymen, who Members of the Administration would accepted such assistance, to levy and be unworthy the name of Government, enforce the arrears of tithes which were if they were to suffer to continue any due for the year 1931, without any relonger the systematic refusal to pay ference to arrears of tithe for a period tithes which was at present adopted, and antecedent to that year, which the acadopted 100 by people who were well ceptance of this assistance did not debar able to pay them. He asserted, there the clergy from recovering themselves; fore, that if the Government were to sit and that on the recovery by the King of down quietly under the present resist the arrears for 1831, the sums advanced ance-to allow the law to be violated on them should first be repaid, and the with impunity, and to suffer themselves balance which remained paid over to the to be told, and told truly, that such a legal owners. He had now gone through violation of the law resulted from their the series of resolutions which it was apathetic conduct, he felt that he could his intention to submit to the committee for their approbation, but he felt bound go at once to the real complaint of the to say, that he should have felt ex- tenantry, which was, that the amount tremely reluctant to press them on the levied for tithe was ostensibly an extra House, without, at the same time, giv. charge on their earnings, which they ing a pledge of the intentions of Govern- were called upon to pay to a person ment that an alteration should take from whom they received nothing whatplace in the existing tithe system of ever in return. He had no doubt himself Ireland. He knew how strongly the feel that, whilst so great a demand existed ings of the Irish were excited on this for land in Ireland, and whilst the tesubject, and he knew also that the ap- nantry there were so eager to enter pointment of the committee up-stairs into covenants to pay landlords sums had occasioned the disturbances with which they afterwards found themselves regard to tithes to subside for some unable to raise, the removal of tithes time, and that it had also tended to would only give the landlord additional retard and to put off the collisions which facilities for exacting additional and were expected to have occurred in Ire-exorbitant rents. He said also, that land. He must also in candour ac- the great grievance of which the knowledge that Ireland would have tenantry complained was, that they were been very justly disappointed if, whilst forced to pay these tithes to the ministhe resolutions which he had pro- ters of a religion in which they did not posed were to be adopted, no relief was believe, and which they were taught to to be afforded her—and if also there decry; and he felt that such a complaint was no intimation on the part of Govern. was well-grounded; for though the dement of an intention to effect some mand for tithe was one which was change in the system, under the evils of strictly legal, and one which the tenant whicii she at present laboured. His was bound to pay, and under other cirown view of the matter was, that the cumstances would most probably pay present tithe system of Ireland, inas- readily ; yet as the money was paid by much as it had ever required extraordi- him at once to the Protestant clergynary measures to enforce its endurance, man, the objection was, in a religious was radically wrong. and if he looked point of view, the same, whether the back through the series of centuries sum demanded was three-pence or which had elapsed since that system three chillings an acre. But so far from was forced on Ireland, he found it had the grievance consisting in the oppresever proved the fertile source of litiga. sive weight of the amount levied for tion and of turmoil, and throughout the tithes, the fact was entirely the other whole records of her history he found a way, for it actually consisted in the constant succession of laws which were smallness of the tithe which each tenant framed for the purpose of quelling those had to pay. It was in evidence on the disturbances, and of punishing the re- report, that if the charge for tithe was fractory tenantry; he wished he could two shillings an acre, it would be an say he found as many laws for better- obvious one, and one too which would ing their condition, or for affording them not be likely to be lost sight of in bare mlief. (Hear, hear.) He averred, there- gaining for a lease of eighty or a hunfore, that it was, in his opinion, not the dred acres; but the tithe was so small, amount of the tithe which was the that when the landlord and the tenant source of the grievance; it was not be- agreed about the terms of the lease, it cause the tithe was 28., or, as he be was not thought worth while to make lieved, 1s. 3d. an acre, that the tenantry any stipulation as to who should pay it; complained; but it was the system by at the same time, that though this dewhich it was enforced which formed the mand on the small holder was so small real grievance, and that which was most as to be unworthy of consideration incomplained of by all parties in Ireland. dividually, yet taken aggregately, it He would not stay to inquire whether was a matter of serious consideration the tithes were paid by the tenant, the to the clergyman, whose income is landlord, or the consumer, but he would' made up of sucir small dues, and it often proved to be a source of griev- himself perfectly safe when he conceived ance to the person who had to pay that this change was desired by the it, in consequence of its being di- clergy of Ireland themselves. They felt vided amongst several persons. It was that the present system was constantly in evidence on the report of the con- bringing them into personal collision mittee that such was the fact; for with with their parishioners, and that such a a view to show how this matter stood, condition was not one which ought the coinmittee had added to the appen- to exist between a clergyman and dix of the report a paper, by which it his flock, even although the latter appeared (having taken the two last pa- might not be of his religious tenets. rishes in each diocese where the Tithe They felt then, for the sake of their Composition Act had been carried into own as well as of others' welfare, that effect for the purpose of obtaining a fair some change was necessary; and it was average) that there were in those pa- in evidence that they had expressed an rishes 12,884 persons who were called eager desire to catch at any change by upon to pay 11,3001. in tithes, or in which they would secure a respectable round numbers about 11,000l. from maintenance, and by which they would 13,000 persons, and these sums be enabled to discharge those dunot levied at one payment and by one ties which appertained, not so much person, but they were demanded by the to their clerical characters as to their vicar and the rector, and at two differ situation in their respective parishes ent periods of the year by each. The-namely, that of gentlemen resievidence in the report also stated that dent cultivators of the land, in which there were many instances where tithes character alone they would be enabled were due for which there were seven or to effect a great deal of good amongst, eight clainants on the tenant, and that their surrounding parishioners. If only the subdivision was carried to such a on this ground alone, a change of the minute extent, that demands on which system would do inuch good; for, diexpenses might be incurred, and on vested of his character as a tithe exacter which the tenantry might actually be from the tenantry around him, they served with processes, and carried into would look up to him for benefits by court, amounted in some cases to no which he would become endeared to his more than three farthings-(hear, hear) parishioners, and in which character he on the half year's tithes. It ought to would effect more good than under the be recollected also, before the cle gy of existing laws he could ever hope to do. Ireland were charged with extortion and He therefore thought it highly necessary oppression, and before any comparison to hold out hopes to the people of Irewas instituted between them and the land that some plan would be proposed clergy of England, that their situation by which the clergy would receive some and prospects were widely altered, and permanent remuneration; at the same they ought also to recollect that Eog-time it must be distinctly understood land was freed from what he considered that, whatever amount of remuneration to be the curse of Ireland, the minute might be awarded to them, and in whatsubdivision of land which existed there. ever form it was made, it would come In many parishes in Ireland the clergy from the land. They might certainly be would receive no tithes at all were it led to expect that it would be shifted from not for the potato gardens, and this the tenant to the landlord; but it would was chiefly in consequence of the break- most probably ultimately, owing to the ing up of the land in that country into competition, come to be settled in cersuch minute subdivisions. Independent, tain proportions between the landlord therefore, of the grievances of which and tenant, He therefore could not at the tenantry of Ireland complained, not present hope to see any permanent alteonly in a religious point of view, but rations in the systeni carried into effect; also in consequence of those uithes being but he could only, in conforniity to his exacted by so many claimants, he felt duty, point out to the attention of Par

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