it as his duty to dissent from the motion.

Mr. Abercromby affirmed that the subject brought forward by his noble friend had no connexion with that of parliamentary reform. It was said, that it was only when the rights of the burgh were suspended, that the crown interfered to reanimate them; but in the case alluded to, it went farther; it altered the set altogether. If this was wrong, it was an usurpation on the part of the Crown; and though in the present instance it might have been exerted beneficially, yet it went to establish a precedent which, in the hands of bad ministers, might be made use of to justify the worst encroachments. No subject appeared to him more suitable for parliamentary inquiry. He thought that copies of the old and new set should be produced, that they might be able by the comparison to see whether the Crown had improperly interfered, or in such a manner as demanded parliamentary inquiry. If its interference was improper, and no notice was taken of it, the measure would be acquiesced in, and be established as a precedent. Finding that in the course of this year five or six other burghs were likely to be placed in a similar situation to that in which Montrose lately stood, he thought it of very great importance that the subject should be fully discussed.

The Lord Advocate said, that the noble mover had given it as his opinion that the magistrates and counsel of the burghs possessed an unlimited power of taxing the property of persons VOL. LX.

residing in the burgh; but he had forgotten that in the Declaration of Grievances at the Revolution, to levy money without the consent of parliament was declared contrary to law. He knew that opinions had been given by

counsel that the inhabitants were liable for the debts of the burgh; but though these opinions had been given years ago, no suit had ever been commenced on them. The magistrates of some burghs, Aberdeen for instance, had attempted to levy petty customs for the defrayment of the public debt; but the question was ultimately decided on appeal to the House of Lords that the magis trates of burghs had no such power to levy customs. There was hardly a year in which applications were not made to the legislature by burghs, for a power of levying money to pay debts: surely, if an'act of the town council was a sufficient authority, they would not have been so ill advised as to apply to parliament. The noble lord would find the power exercised by the crown in the case of the burgh of Montrose, was virtually recognized in the Declaration of Grievances. The complaint in that declaration against king James was, not for altering the constitution of burghs, but for having done so of his own authority, without judgment, surrender, or consent.' In 1789 or 1790, there was a motion respecting the state of the Scots burghs, and in the report of a committee the modes were dis

cussed by which alterations could be legally made by course of time, by the burghs themselves, and by the act of the crown. The [E]

case

case of Stirling was referred to, and the right of altering the set, as was done in 1781 or 1782, was not questioned. The alteration in Stirling was precisely the same as that in the burgh of Montrose; there was therefore no ground for the allegation that this exertion of the prerogative of the crown was illegal. He had been asked by the noble lord, whether he intended to propose the same alteration in every burgh which, by neglect, might become disfranchised. He should answer No. Every case must stand upon its own merits. The same constitution could not possibly be applied to all the burghs, because electors with the same qualifications could not be had in all of them, unless all the exclusive privileges which had existed for ages should be abolished. It was said that the question did not touch upon political reform. This was true, if the question was confined to the consideration of the particular case; but if, in defiance of the act of Union, it was intended to introduce a new system of election in all the burghs, it would have the same effect as a sweeping measure of parliamentary reform. He was convinced that there would be a general feeling of alarm if a general change were apprehended, and should therefore oppose the

motion.

Sir R. Fergusson supported the motion. No one who looked at the deplorable state of the representation in Scotland could agree in the eulogies which had been pronounced on it. He then read the parting address of the late magistrates of Aberdeen,

who declared their decided opinion that a new constitution was necessary for the sake both of the magistrates and people. This address was written by gentlemen who had been in the uniform habit of supporting his majesty's ministers. The hope of a change in the constitution of the burghs had been fostered by the commissioners at Montrose; one of whom, the sheriff of Perthshire, praised the liberal constitution which the paternal government of the country had given them, and adduced it as a proof that the ministers were willing to effect reform, when reform was necessary.

Lord Archibald Hamilton, rising to reply, said, that the question still returned, whether the Crown had legally the power to alter by its own authority the constitution of a burgh, how it pleased, when it pleased, and as often as it pleased. The question was certainly worthy of being settled; and if the Crown had any such legal power, even in circumstances similar to those of Montrose, he meant when an alteration was requested by the burgh itself, the consequence must be fatal to the stability of the burghs, even under any improvement they might receive; for the influence of the Crown throughout Scotland was so great, that it might easily procure an application to be made for alteration in almost every one of the Scotch burghs, at such times as its ministers conceived to be convenient. The learned lord had maintained very positively that the burgesses were not liable for the debts contracted by the

magistrates.

magistrates. He had heard the opposite opinion affirmed by legal authority quite as good as that of the lord advocate. He apprehended, however, that the declaration of the learned lord's opinion this night would alarm the creditors of some burghs, and bring these claims and their other municipal concerns to a speedy crisis. One thing, however, he must pointedly remark-that although the learned lord had denied that the burgesses at large were liable for the debts of the burghs, he had taken care to avoid stating who were liable. The learned lord, too, had disputed the fact of the dilapidation and ruin of the burgh funds. Here his lordship read a statement of the condition of Aberdeen, which, from being one of the richest corporations in Scotland, was now obliged to borrow a large sum to pay the interest of their debt. Similar facts, his lordship said, to a greater or less extent, might be adduced in the case of all the royal burghs in Scotland, as he could prove before a committee of the House. The general subject, however, was not now before the House; and though he plainly foresaw that his present motion was to be negatíved, he promised to bring it on again before the House after Easter.

The motion was negatived

without a division.

The Navy Estimates were first moved in a Committee of Supply, in the House of Commons, by Sir George Warrender, on February 4th.

He said there would be found in this year a small increase in the

supply for this branch of the public service. The addition was 1000 sailors, and 1000 marines; and it was occasioned by the necessity of keeping up an establishment at St. Helena, and the state of South America. The rate of pay was somewhat higher in peace than in war, because the proportion of able seamen to landmen was greater in peace, in order that the fleet might the more speedily be put on a good footing in case of emergency. The charge of ordnance was somewhat increased. A ship which in time of war had a complement of 480 men, had in peace only 300, the number of guns remaining the same: whence the charge for ordnance was increased in the proportion of from 4 to 7 shillings per man per month. He then moved, 1. "That 20,000 men be employed for the sea service for 13 months from the 1st of January 1818, including 6000 royal marines. 2. That 611,000l. be granted for wages of the said 20,000 men, at the rate of 21. 7s. per man per month. 3. That 520,000l. be granted for victuals for the said 20,000 men, at the rate of 21. per man per month. 4. That 559,000l. be granted for the wear and tear of the ships in which the said 20,000 men are to serve, at the rate of 21. 3s. per man per month. 5. That 91,000l. be granted for ordnance for sea service on board the ships in which the said 20,000 men are to serve, at the rate of 7s. per man per month."

to.

The above motions were agreed

into a Committee of Supply to which the Navy Estimates were referred,

re

Sir George Warrender marked that the observations he had to offer might be compressed within a very narrow space. For the last twenty years the navy estimates had been printed in such a manner that every item could be taken into consideration; and in the last two years the subject had been so ably treated by the committees of finance, that he did not know that he could do his duty better, than by referring the House to their reports for the fullest and clearest information. It was known, that during the war the expense of the civil department of the navy had considerably increased; and much of this must remain a permanent charge, since arrangements had been made for bringing the whole of the work that was formerly done in the merchants' yards, into the king's yards. Another large branch in the expenditure of the navy was that connected with the public works in the naval yards. These would be found detailed in the report, together with a statement by that able engineer, Mr. Rennie. The committee were aware, from the nature of all works carried on near the sea, that it was most desirable to complete them as soon as possible. That consideration had contributed to produce the in crease in the amount in this branch of the present estimate to which he had before alluded. Every practical reduction had been attended to. The works at Sheerness and Chatham had done away the expenditure to a much

larger amount in the establishments on the river.

There remained one point on which he wished to offer a few observations. In the course of the present session, some remarks had escaped gentlemen which seemed to indicate an opinion that the navy had been neglected by the government. He could not believe that such an idea was seriously entertained. The navy was felt by government to be the bulwark of the nation, and every thing had been attended to that promised to give it strength and efficiency. Pensions had been given of late years, not merely to disabled seamen, but to those who might one day be called upon to serve their country again. The arrangements which had been made were such, that an expedition could be fitted out sooner than at any former period. He might be allowed to remind the House how rapidly, in one recent instance, an expedition had been got ready for sea; an expedition as unexampled, as was its efficiency when complete. A state of peace did not afford those opportunities for brilliant enterprize and daring achievement which grew out of a state of war; but even in the former, the spirit which distinguished the British sailor might be usefully displayed. An expedition was now about to be dispatched to the Arctic regions, which would attempt to solve a problem most interesting to maritime science.

The hon. baronet concluded with moving, "That a sum not exceeding 2,480,680l. 17s. 3d. be granted to his majesty, for defraying the ordinary establish

ment

ment of the navy for the year 1818."

Sir M. W. Ridley said, that he did not mean to oppose the vote proposed, in any of its items, except that which referred to the puisne lords of the Admiralty, in which he thought some alteration was absolutely necessary. He should therefore move, as an amendment, that the proposed grant should be reduced in the sum of 2,000l. which was now applied as the salaries of two of the fords of the Admiralty, who, in his firm opinion, could be dispensed with without any detriment to the public service. On a former occasion, when he made a motion for the reduction of two out of six lords of the Admiralty, it was urged as an objection, that these places were necessary, as they gave an opportunity to ministers to assist their friends, and also, that they were necessary as affording a fit school for the education of young statesmen. This was, in effect, the defence then set up for the continuance of places which were wholly unnecessary; and if he had not heard such arguments gravely stated in their favour, he should not have felt it his duty to be so strong in opposition to them. It was said on that occasion, that if these situations were abolished, the Crown would be deprived of a portion of its fair patronage. For himself, he conceived that no place which was in itself useless ought to be kept merely to strengthen the patronage of the Crown, which was already so great. But with respect to the ground of educating young statesmen, he thought that the com

mittee would agree with him that the young statesman ought to pay for his own education. Why a nursery should be established at the Admiralty for politicians in particular, he was at a loss to guess. He had been favoured with the sight of a work which had been not long ago published by a gentleman connected with the Admiralty-board (Mr. Croker) which was, perhaps, to form part of the plan of education. It was intituled "Stories for Young Children," and he had no doubt was intended for the improvement of some of these sucking statesmen. He could not, however, but disapprove of the work being put into such inexperienced hands; for in one part of it a great deal was said in favour of Charles I, and of his being an excellent man and a good king. He did not think such doctrine was likely to improve the constitutional education of the young lords of the Admiralty. But this was not the only literary production which emanated from the Admiralty-board, for there were several, no doubt, very valuable articles which appeared in the Quarterly Review, originating from the same source, and all for the instruction and improvement of the young statesmen.

The hon. baronet concluded by moving, as an amendment, the defalcation of two thousand pounds of the sum proposed by Sir G. Warrender.

Lord Castlereagh said, he did not rise for the purpose of arguing the question which had before been decided, respecting the propriety of keeping up the pre

sent