the futility of his schemes against this country, than that. zeal and patrio ism which had been so eminently evinced by the volunteers; and he appealed upon this subject to a noble lord (Moira) on the other side of the House, who, when commanding in Scotland, spoke in the highest terms, of the quality and efficiency of that description of force. If, then, as he contended, the volunteers were an efficient force, where was the necessity of resorting to a measure for training a large portion of the population of the country to arms? The volunteers were, in fact, the trained population of the country, and trained in a manner greatly superior to the training which would be carried into effect under this bill, He agreed in the policy of training young men toarms, and making it a part of their education, but, he, thought it would be much better to give up the present bill,, which could not, at any rate, be carried into effect for some. time to come, and next session a bill might be brought in with provisions more adequate to the intended object. The Earl of Moira said, the noble viscount agreed in the necessity of having a large efficient force under the present circumstances of the country; the only difference of opi nion between them was as to the quality of that force. He had been appealed, to by the noble viscount with respect to. what was formerly uttered by him, as to the efficiency of the volunteer force of Scotland, and to that opinion he still adhered. At the time he commanded in Scotland, he not only undertook the defence of that country, but also of the northern parts of England; and had so high an opinion of the volunteer force, that he would have led them on with the utmost confidence against an invading enemy. It was in that confidence in the volunteers that he parted with the regular troops under his command, who were thereby rendered disposable for the service of the country in other quarters. This was not an overweening confidence, but a confidence founded upon an experience of the efficiency of the volunteer force, a confidence which he still maintained; nor would he hesitate to lead on such a force against any veteran army of France which could effect a landing here. The noble viscount had contended that our present force was sufficient for our defence; this argument might be good, if we could know at what point an enemy might attempt to effect a landing, or that he would only make the attempt at one point; but with our vast extent of coast, this was abso lutely impossible, and therefore it became necessary to have a large efficient force in the country, ready for the VOL. III. 1805-6. exigency 4 G exigency of the moment. He admitted that the volunteers were of a much superior description of force to the force which could be procured under the present bill, but it was not intended, as the noble viscount had said, to substitute this force for the volunteers, but to bring it in aid of them. The Loble viscount had talked of expressions which had been used, tending to discourage and dishearten the volunteers, but he disclaimed any such in ention in any of his colleagues in office, and maintained that what had been alluded to had been invioly represented. Our present force, it was said, was sufficient for the defence of the country but were they to look ouly to the defence of our coast, without considering the modes adopted by theenemy, of attacking the resources of our commerce and our pros perity in other quarters? No: he looked forward to a period when, if the war continued, we might, by means of our volunteer force, and the fore raised under this bill at home, be enabled to send every battalion of regular troops out of the country, to coml at the ene ny in those quarters where they were attacking our resources and our interests. Were an enemy then to land in this country, he would lead on a › volunteer army against them with the utmost confidence. It would be wise policy, in such a situation, not to risk a battle without absolute necessity, but in the mean time the peasantry trained under this bill might be most advantageously employed in firing from behind hedges and banks upon the columns of the enemy; who, unable to send out detachments, and perpetually harassed by this mode of attack, would ultimately be overwhelmed and completely' defeated. He could not conceive by what mode of calcu lation the noble viscount had discovered that two hundred thousand volunteers could be raised for the same expence as would be incurred under the present bill. How those two hundred thousand volunteers were to be raised, it was beyond his comprehension to discover. As to the objec tion, that there was no provision for officering the men trained under this bill, it was not intended to officer them until the exigency of the moment might require it, but merely to train them to the use of arms, that, in the case of emergency, they might be employed with effect against an enemy, and in aid of the volunteers. He considered the bill to be well calculated for the purposes which he had mentioned, and its provisions to be well adapted to secure the objects intend ed to be effected. The Earl of Westmorland contended that the bill imposed posed a heavy burden upon the country without the probability of deriving from it any adequate advantage. There were, he believed, 15,000 parishes, and how were the men in these different parishes to be trained ?—how many serjeants and constables must there be ?---how many drums and fifes? what was to be done with the arms?were the serjeants to travel in post-chaises or balloons? There appeared to him to be no adequate provision for carrying the object of the bill into effect. The bill, besides, threw a slur upon the volunteers, by declaring that their services were inadequate. It had been said that opinions given respecting the volunteers had been misrepresented; but was it meant to be stated that all the newspapers and all the short-hand writers had been bribed to circulate a misrepresentation through the country? Were not other measures, not favourable to the volunteers, suggested by his Majesty's servants through the mouth of his Majesty? Lord Grenville spoke to order. The noble lord was, he conceived, irregular in discussing opinions uttered in another place, and certainly in mentioning his Majesty in the way he had just done. The Earl of Westmorland said, if the expression he had used was improper, he would say measures that had been announced by his Majesty through the mouths of his servants. Lord Grenville again spoke to order, declaring it disor derly for any noble person to say that his Majesty spoke through the mouth of any member of parliament. The Earl of Westmorland apologized for having used the name of his Majesty in any way that was conceived im proper, but contended that in discussing the opinions used in another place he had only done what had been done before in the course of the debate. His lordship resumed his arguments against the bill, which he contended was not calculated to produce any advantage to the country. Lord Viscount Sidmouth defended the bill, which he contended was not near so rigorous in its provisions as the bill of a similar description brought forward when the noble lord (Westmorland) and himself were in administration. The object of the bill was to raise a force which might be rendered essentially useful, either by being incorporated with the regulars or the militia, or in other modes, in the event of an attempt on the part of the enemy. It had been truly said, by a great and eminent character, that we might have in this country what an enemy could not bring with him-an armed people, whom no enemy could conquer. It was in this view that the bill was essentially important, as contributing materially to that great object. It had been insinuated by the noble viscount (Melville) that this measure was a breach of faith with the people, in as much as, by the last training bill, compulsory measures were not to be adopted, if the volunteers to a certain extent came forward. That bill, however, only authorised his Majesty to suspend, in that event, the operation of the compulsory clauses; but did not, nor could, affect his Majesty's prerogative to call out the people whenever necessary. The present measure was ren dered necessary, in order to raise a force sufficient for the purposes for which it was wanted, and which would come in aid of the volunteers. Lord Eldon declared, that no man more highly approved than he had done, and that none could at this mo ment be more firmly convinced than he was, of the propriety and merits of the military measures brought forward by the noble viscount who spoke last. The measures of the ministry who succeeded the noble viscount, at the head of whom was that great man whose loss was now so justly deploreal, he was also convinced were the best which could be resorted to in the situation in which the country was placed. These measures had also been approved of by the noble viscount, and he (Lord Eldon) was only afraid the noble viscount was not entirely aware of the nature of the present measures, introduced by those with whom he now acted, who had so loudly decried the measures of the noble viscount and of his successor, as being totally weak and inefficient. The opinions of the present government, as to the volunteer force of the country, it was not his wish to judge of from any representations which had taken place out of the House. He must therefore collect it from what he should hear their lordships say in their places that night. He must, however, declare, that, in his opinion, to them this country was not indebted alone for safety from a foreign foe, but that from their being collected together at the period when they were first embodied, was owing to the existence at this moment of the constitution, The present bill or any other which could have any tendency to degrade them, or to render their services less beneficial, he could never approve of. He alluded to the promises of ministers to bring forward a complete military system, rot a piccp a piece here and a piece there-but contended that in this they had completely broken their word, and that after an interval of some months, first one part of their system, and now at the distance of another month another part of their system, had been introduced. Lord Grenville, after the able statements in support of the measure made by his noble friends near him, should not have thought it necessary to say a word on the subject, had it not been for the observations of the learned lord who spoke last. For the right honourable gentleman now no more, to whom the noble and learned lord had alluded, no person could feel more strongly than he did. He had been his dearest friend, and when he had differed from him it was with sincere regret; but, at the same time, he could not sacrifice to him his judgment and every idea of propriety. With respect to the opinions of his Majesty's ministers as to the volunteers, every individual member of administration in this House knew that there was but one opinion among them. This opinion, he desired, might be collected, not from their words, but from their conduct. Had they not been among the first not merely to countenance and encourage, but themselves to take a part in that service; and could it be supposed that they wished to do any thing which should go to degrade and insult themselves and their comrades and com panions in arms? For the government collectively, too, he could declare, that so far from degrading, it was their wish to honour and protect the volunteers ;-to protect them more particularly against that foul insinuation which had been thrown out against them, that they had so little patriotism as to be deterred, by misrepresentations and misconceptions, from performing their duty to their country. If, however, by saving the country, the noble and learned lord meant that there was any dread that but for their existence our country was at present in danger from its internal enemies, he could by no means follow him that length. He was convinced, if there were among ourselves any enemies to the constitution of this country, the occcurrences of the three last years must have been more than sufficient to bring them back into the path of loyalty. His lordship then proceeded to shew that the present was not a separate measure, but a part of the general military system which the present government had resolved to adopt, and which the noble and learned lord could har ly have expected to see comprehended in one bill. First hey had got rid of one |