electors themselves. The very first prin- willingly discuss any particular clause prociple of the constitution was, that free posed to be added afterwards to it. holders should be represented in that The question being put, That the bill House free of expense. To give effect to be now read a third time, the House dithis principle was the leading object of vided: Ayes, 44; Noes, 51. The bill. this bill. The first clause objected to was consequently lost. was that respecting the building of booths and other apparatus. It had been said, Irish Courts of Justice.] Sir J. that to throw the expense of these erec- Newport asked, whether any measures tions upon the county, was to encourage had been taken by the Irish government ambitious candidates to come forward. in consequence of'the reports of the comBut it should be recollected, that, at pre- missioners for investigating the fees and sent, any candidate could avoid this ex. emoluments of the several officers conpense. He had only to avoid offering him nected with the courts of justice in that self, but to get some person to demand a country? poll for him, and he could be charged with Mr. Peel observed, that the three reno part of the expense. The only al- ports from the commission alluded to ternative left him, therefore, in framing were so voluminous, as to require some this bill was, to throw the expense upon time for their consideration. They had the county, or upon the individual de- been submitted to the examination of the manding the poll; and as the latter would lord chancellor of Ireland, with a view to be a greater alteration of the whole sys. collect his opinion for the satisfaction of tem, he had adopted the former. When the Irish government, as to the arrangethe expense was laid

upon the county, no ments proposed, and from his own knowindividual would feel it severely. Be- ledge he could state, that that learned sides, as the materials of booths and hust- lord had, in conjunction with the master ings would be sold after the election, the of the rolls, devoted a great deal of attenamount would be inconsiderable. The tion to the subject. The master of the second clause objected to respected the rolls had, indeed, occupied a great part of closing of the poll, if 400 had not voted the last vacation in considering those rebefore the end of the second day. The ports, and the capacity of that learned bringing in of electors from a distant person to form a correct judgment upon part of a county he thought as great an any subject, could not be questioned by evil as bringing them from the remotest any one who had an opportunity of appart of the kingdom. If, therefore, a preciating his talents.

When the opicandidate could not poll 400 on the se- nions of those two learned persons should cond day from the place where the poll be communicated to the Irish government, was held, he thought it would be a great he could assure the right hon. baronet advantage that the poll should be closed. that it was the intention of that governIt had been suggested, that the bill should ment to adopt such measures as the be put off till after the general election. equity of the case should suggest. With He could not consent to this, as it was regard to the office of the clerk of the brought forward with the view of prevent pleas, about which so much discussion ing such evils as it embraced at the en- had taken place, the Irish government suing general election. As to cockades, had arranged, that the fees of that office he believed that the 100l. proposed as a should be invested in the public treasury, penalty would effectually prevent the use until a final decision should be pronounced of them ; but he should not have the least upon that subject, with regard to which objection to a fine for each cockade given an appeal was now pending in the House away. The clause respecting constables of Lords. As to the deputy clerk of the was especially required. At one elec- pleas, upon whose conduct one of the retion he knew that 8,0001. had been given ports alluded to so particularly animadto special constables. At another election verted, the Irish government had felt it a 1,500 special constables had been engaged duty to dismiss that person not only from at half-a-guinea a day each. The amend that office, but from another office also, ment proposed in the bill respecting the which he had held for many years. land-tax was much wanted in every part Sir J. Neroport declared, that he was of the country, but particularly in Glou- much pleased with the reply of the right cestershire and Yorkshire. İf the bill hon. gentleman. He was, indeed, encoushould be read a third time, he would raged to hope that such measures would

be taken in consequence of the reports | expense of the army, comparing the prealluded to, as were essential to the ends of public justice.

* Extract from the Seventh Report of the Finance Committee, Appendix p. 42.

STATEMENT showing the DIFFERENCE between the AMOUNT of the ESTIMATES of the ORDINARY SERVICES of the ARMY, as voted for 1817, and the AMOUNT of the same ESTIMATES for 1818.

703] HOUSE OF COMMONS,

clusive of recruiting troops and companies; the items of widow's pensions, there was and 20,1 26 for our contingent in France. a diminution of 109l. In the compassion. Without going through any very minute ate list, there would be perceived a reduc. details, the land forces might be stated at tion of 1,696l.; and in the item of reduc. a reduction of 74,0001. The staff was ed adjutants of local militia, an increase considerably increased; the sum he be- of 1,305). In the expenses of the troops lieved, was about 3,754l. Considerable in France, there was a reduction in the alterations would be found to have taken sum total of 175,183l. In the West Indies place in the estimates connected with the there was a small increase arising from West Indies. There was a diminution of the circumstance that two of the regiments 16,5571. in the item of public departments. that went out had only, remained part of In the office of the commander in chief, a the year.

There would be found, upon diminution had taken place of 1,3001.; and the whole a saving in the total charge of in the war-office a diminution of 6,1361. ; troops, &c., in 1818, ofthe sum of 188,0271. but this year a smaller sum was required, 198. 3d., and the whole charge, including on account of the cessation of some of the troops in France, India, &c., would their expenses. In the other offices there be found to be less by 418,0001., and the would be found small articles of variation, whole number of men in the estimate, all of which he should not enumerate. A when compared with the estimate of most important change was the muster last year, was less by upwards of 21,000. master.general's office having been abo- The noble lord concluded by moving his lished, and the duties transferred to other first Resolution, viz. “ That a number of offices. The reduction by that was land forces, not exceeding 113,640 men 2,9181. The whole of the reductions in (including the forces stationed in France) the offices, &c. made upwards of 16,550l. and also 4,200 men proposed to be disThere was an increase in the item of me. banded in 1818, but exclusive of the men dicines of 11,2651. On that he might ob. belonging to the regiments now employed serve, that there was not an increase in in the territorial possessions of the East Inthe supply of medicines ; but this year dia company, or ordered from thence to there had been bought and paid for a Great Britain, commissioned and nonconsiderable quantity more than was ne. commissioned officers included, be maincessary for the service of the year. In the tained for the service of the United Kingitem of volunteer corps there would be dom of Great Britain and Ireland, from found an increase of 16,8761. There was 25th December 1817 to 24th December also an addition made to the East India 1818.” troops for recruiting &c., of 3,4511. The Mr. Calcraft expressed his conviction, Royal Military College establishment was that a still greater diminution should take diminished by 2,6401. There would be a place in our military establishment, than difference in the estimates of this and next what the noble lord had stated. He could year on this point in the sum of 7501. In the not, for instance, see the necessity of pay of general officers there was a diminu- 25,936 men for the peace establishment of tion of 2,1091. Upon the half pay and Great Britain, and 20,058 for that of Iremilitary allowances, there was an increase land. With regard to the numbers voted of 3,2131., and in the foreign half pay of for the old and new stations, he did not 2,9231. In the hospitals of Chelsea and feel himself competent to pronounce any Kilmainham, including in and out pension- decided opinion, although the amount ers, there was required a sum of 101,6241. of force for the former was so much more than last year, but there might be more than in any

former alterations made in the course of the year respect to Great Britain and Ireland, he by casualties and accidents which could could not imagine the grounds upon which not be exactly calculated upon. And it ministers could think such an establishought to be recollected, that there was to ment necessary; while there were 20,000 be deducted the sum of 35,3141. The of our troops in France, he could not see casualties, pensions, &c. for the last four why a smaller number than 25,936 would years had been on an average upwards of not be enough to vote for the present 180,000l. annually. There was reason, peace establishment of Great Britain. Was however, to expect that in the present there any thing in the internal condition of year the sum required would not be so England, which called for a larger peace great. In the Military Asylum there had establishment than we had in 1792

, and been made a diminution of 1,5641. ; and in that, which amounted only to 15,000 men,

peace. But with

was the largest peace establishment this | Hilsea. There was no greater number country had ever previously known ? than was required for the public service. Surely it was not requisite to keep up an As to the recruiting staff

, it consisted establishment of 25,936 men, in order to of inspecting field officers, who superpreserve the peace of England. He should intended the performance of the various not oppose such an establishment if he duties of the district staffs ; paymaster, could conceive it necessary for the safety who attended to the accounts ; a surgeon of the state. From the state of the House to inspect the recruits; and serjeants to with so few members in attendance, he escort them to their respective depôts. would not then press any proposition ; but with respect to the grant of a pension he should certainly feel it his duty to do to the Military College, it arose from the so upon a future occasion. Having asked warrant to a retired officer, after 15 years for some information as to the grounds service pursuant to the warrant, by upon which such an extraordinary peace which the appointments in these colleges establishment was deemed necessary for were made, An hon. gentleman had England, he would also take leave to in- stated, that on a future occasion he quire of the secretary of the Irish govern- would feel it his duty to move a farther ment, what were the circumstances which reduction in the present estimates. As, called for 20,000 men in Ireland, which was however, the hon. gentleman did not then in fact, little less than double the usual peace go into a statement of his reasons for establishment in that country; for, from the intended motion, he would abstain his own knowledge, Ireland, although by from any premature discussion. But he po means in a state of prosperity, was must be allowed to say, that the 26,000 thoroughly tranquil. That tranquillity men, taken in the estimates, could not be was, indeed, preserved throughout the considered as wholly applicable to the last winter, while the people were suffer- home service; a portion must be applied ing the most severe privations under the to the relief of the foreign garrisons. pressure of unexampled distress, and the These garrisons consisted of a force of most afflicting disease. What, then, could 33,000 men. Nobody would pretend to justify the expense of such extraordinary say, that the regiments thus stationed establishments, especially in the present should be exposed to perpetual banishstate of our finances ? He would not then ment. It would be neither humane nor enter into the discussion of all the topics constitutional. Some period must, therewhich were naturally connected with this fore, be assigned for the return home of subject, but upon the bringingup thereport these regiments. Ten years were consi. he would move for a farther reduction of dered the limit of garrison service abroad. the proposed establishment to the extent Now, allowing that the reliefs would of 8 or 9,000 men.

amount to one-tenth of the force in foreign Sir M. W. Ridley expressed his sur. garrisons, that amount would take away prise, that it should be proposed to conti- from the 26,000 men 3,000, for reliefs to nue the Royal Waggon Train, for what be sent out. So that with these reliefs, occasion could there be for such an esta and the defalcations arising from the nonblishment during peace. There was also effectives, the army for home service a considerable expense in the recruiting would not amount to more than between department, amounting in the whole to 18 and 19,000"men. The House would, 17,0001. which made the expense equal therefore see that there was no very great to the bounties. In the estimates he excess between the force now kept up perceived a grant of pensions to the and the establishment of 1792, and that Military Colleges of 7401. per annum. it was only such a difference as the alIn so new

an institution, such a grant teration of circumstances between the should be an object of great suspicion. two periods fully warranted. There was also a grant of 2,0751. to a Mr. Warre observed, that the noble retired barrack-master, which required lord, in his various statements as to the some explanation.

necessity of our home force, seemed Lord Palmerston stated, that with res- wholly to throw out of his contemplation pect to the Royal Waggon Train, a part our large army in France. was stationed at Croydon, from whence Mr. Peel said, the hon. gentleman détachments were sent to the army in should recollect that the present esti. France, a part was employed on the mates were only demanded for a year. Military Canal, and another portion at The country was bound by treaty to keep (VOL. XXXVII.)

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up, for a time specified, an army in tice and peculiar gratification he himself France. As long, therefore, as we were must say, that under the pressure of pribound by treaty to keep up that force, vations, perhaps unexampled, no people it was impossible to consider it as appli- had ever displayed more endurance, recable to the home service, or to make signation, and magnanimity, than the under that head an allowance for it in people of that country. A sum of the estimates. An hon. gentleman had 37,000l. had been advanced by the goexpressed something like dissatisfaction vernment to local subscriptions of charity. that the reduction for Ireland was not No money could be more wisely disgreater, and that the force considered pensed, nor could be received with greater necessary for internal tranquillity should gratitude. But whilst he spoke thus of still amount to 20,000 men. After the the tranquillity of Ireland, it was neverunanimity that bad marked the greater theless true, that some outrages had ocestimate two years ago, when the force curred. They were, perhaps, inseparable admitted to be necessary was taken at from the peculiar state of society there. 25,000 men, he confessed that he did Government had been applied to by the expect the reduction and its causes would magistracy in some instances to put the have been received with unmixed satis- sinsurrection act in operation. The applifaction. It was impossible for any man cation was refused, and the refusal was to demonstrate with mathematical accu- owing to the power it possessed of supracy the amount of force which the in- porting the civil power by a military force ternal tranquillity of a country, situated stationed through the country. Much as Ireland was, would require. It was a benefit was also to be attributed to the matter of grave opinion, and should be extension of the civil authorities in that taken on the responsibility of those whose country, paramount duty it was to preserve the Sir W. Burroughs denied that it was internal peace.

The hon. gentleman the usage to keep up in Ireland a large considered that half the force, viz. 10,000 military establishment. In the American men, would be sufficient. Now as far war the people of that country had to back as 1767; under lord Townshend's complain of the total inadequacy of the administration, it was resolved that the force to meet the dangers then arising force for Ireland should be 15,000, 12,000 from the apprehension of an invasion. to be always detained in the country, and There were not 5,000 soldiers in Ireland 3,000 for general service. But when it when the volunteers were embodied. He became a duty to estimate the necessary was proud of the account the House had amount for Ireland, it would be idle to received that night from authority, as to revert to distant periods. The true the fortitude and magnanimity of its standard by which a judgment should be people under unequalled sufferings. It .formed of the present estimates, was the ought to afford an instructive lesson to number of men that within recent periods | the government.

At afflictions unconhad been employed. He admitted that it trollable by man the Irish people never was a period of war. But since the peace murmured, but oppressions springing from of Amiens there had been no apprehen- | ill-treatment and mis-rule, they ever did, sion of invasion-no vulnerable point on and he hoped ever would, resist. With the Irish frontier. The force maintained regard to the present estimates, he could during those years, large as it was, was in not avoid expressing his surprise at their support of the civil power. He had, amount. In the third year of peace, to therefore, to congratulate the House on hear of a force of 90,600 men must be a the improved state of the internal circum- source of astonishment. How was the stances of that country. In consequence country to support such an expenditure ? of that improvement, government were Where was it to end? The revenue of the enabled to make a reduction both in the last year amounted to 51,000,0001. The regular and yeomanry force of Ireland ; expenditure was 65,000,0001. leaving a and measures were in operation to reduce deficit of 14,000,0001. And yet, with still farther the latter description of force such financial difficulties staring them in - The hon. member had truly observed, the face, the noble lord held out no hope that during the last winter great tran- or suggestion of future reductions bequillity had prevailed in Ireland. The yond the reduction of 4,200 men. The hon. gentleman was perfectly correct in expense of such an establishment as now the statement, and it was with great jus proposed was 6,000,0001. How was it