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Mr. Marryat feared that the bill would Knowing that they existed, he would subthrow an unnecessary expense upon can- mit it to the House whether it would be didates, by obliging them to bring up politic to postpone the bill to a more disvoters at a time when there was no occa- tant period. sion for them. For this and other reasons Mr. Lushington expressed his hopes, he was desirous that it should be post that the bill would be put into such a poned.

shape as would secure its passing into a Sir W. Burroughs could not but appre

law. hend that the bill would cause great incon- Mr. Brougham said, he was a friend to venience and unnecessary expense, in the principle of the bill, and to most of its many cases, to candidates whose strength details ; but he had some doubts as to the lay in non-resident electors. In the heat number of 400. Perhaps it would be of an expected contest they would natu- better to have a smaller number of voters rally be induced to bring up as many voters or a greater number of days. An objecas the bill required, even when there was tion might also be made to throwing the no occasion for them.

expense of the candidates upon the elec1 Mr. W. Smith said, he knew many in- tors, and perhaps the present time might stances of election, in which 400 voters be regarded as peculiarly unfit. The were nor polled on the two first days, nor clause respecting the assessment to the upon any day up to the tenth. The land tax, was much to be approved of, elause requiring that such a number should as since the redemption of the land tax poll, would have the effect of placing the present mode was almost equal to a within the reach of the returning officer a forfeiture of the qualification.

a great degree of partiality in the exercise General Thornton was of opinion, that of his power. He might continue to ob- the clause would increase the expense

of ject to any single vote even for the space bringing down the outlying voters; an of two hours.

exception should therefore be made in · Mr. Wynn said, that the number of their favour, or else the clause should be booths for receiving votes which the bill withdrawn. Instances had occurred of provided would obviate the inconvenience the poll having been kept open after the apprehended. It did not matter how long third candidate had withdrawn, to enable the returning officer might be deciding the second candidate to get to the head of upon a disputed vote, because, in the the poll. meantime, the election would be going on Sir W. Burroughs said, that the bill in the other booths. From all he had ought to be recommitted. Should that heard upon the subject, the opinion not be agreed to, he should feel it his seemed to be, that any candidate who, on duty to move that the House be counted. the two first days, was not able to bring Mr. Wynn thought he had cause to up 400 electors, could have no chance of complain of the proceeding of the hon. success. Such being the case, would gentleman, as the bill had already been they now, by postponing the bill, leave all put off for ten days, that there might be the cities and counties throughout the ample time to consider the subject. He kingdom subject to the inconvenience, should move that the bill be re-committed and candidates to the unnecessary ex. for to-morrow, and he hoped it would be pense of a protracted election ? This read a third time the next day. If genmight be done as the law stood at present, tlemen would look to the case of Norby any individual who could on each day wich, they would find that 3000 voters bring up seven electors. There were nu- had polled in the course of two days. merous instances of this. In Devonshire That fact appeared to him a sufficient justhe poll was kept open for three days by tification of the clause in the bill respecta a person who had only nineteen votes. In ing the 400 voters that were required to Bristol it was not closed for nine or ten poll in the course of two days. days. In the county of Berks it was kept The bill was ordered to be recommitted open for fifteen days by an individual who to-morrow. could bring forward only 500 votes. He remembered a borough, in which there

HOUSE OF LORDS. were only 200 electors, and in which the

Thursday, February 19. poll was not closed in it for eleven days. Exchequer Bills Bill.] The House Such were the evils which were intended having resolved itself into a committee on to be provided against by the measure the Exchequer Bills bill,

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Earl Grosvenor felt it his duty to say as that opinion ought to be carried, yet he

. few words before the bill should pass could see no necessity why any part of the through the committee. He had hoped military force of this country should be that their lordships would have heard maintained on the French frontiers. Whesomething on the subject of economy in ther Buonaparté was popular in France the Prince Regent's speech, but in that to the extent which had been stated, he expectation the House and the country could not pretend to determine ; but howhad been grievously disappointed. Not ever popular that person might be, he withstanding this omission, it was a noto- trusted that this country would not be so rious fact that the finances of the country unjust and impolitic as to completely mix were in a most deplorable state ; for the itself in the domestic affairs of another. income, though a boast had been made of To a certain degree he was ready to the improvement of the revenue, did not admit that interference might be a duty, cover the expenditure by many millions. but with domestic parties we had really In this situation it was reasonable to have nothing to do. Feeling and lamenting as hoped that ministers, if they neglected to he did the state of the finances of the bring forward the subject on the meeting country, he could not help expressing his of parliament, would at least have done surprise at finding a measure like the presomething at a very early part of the ses sent in progress through their lordships sion, to encourage the expectation of their House. That there should be thirty milbeing disposed to resort io that system of lions of exchequer bills afloat, in addition reduction and economy which could alone to the other circulating paper, was a verze avert the ruin that threatened the coun- melancholy consideration. The serious try. No indication of any such dispo- importance of the measure would be apsition had, however, been given; and preciated when their lordships considered now, after three years of peace, the coun- that the issue now proposed equalled any try had still to endure a weight of unne- that had ever been made in this country cessary expenditure. He had formerly during the late long and expensive war. alluded to reductions which ought to be It must be evident that this increased cirmade, and was still of opinion that con- culation of paper tended more and more siderable savings might be effected in dif- to depreciate the regular coin of the ferent branches of the public expenditure, realm, and to render more difficult, if not and particularly in that of the army. If entirely to prevent the removal of that the army on the frontiers of France were restriction on the payments of the Bank recalled, a more economical arrangement which all their lordships so seriously dewith respect to the military force might plored.. Impressed with these opinions, be made. While in a state of peace, was it he could not suffer this important measure not most absurd to persist in maintaining to go through the committee without callan army of 100,000 men? Notwithstanding ing their lordships attention to it. what bad fallen from a noble earl with The Earl of Liverpool said, he did not regard to the state of France, on the first wish to enter into any discussion on the day of the session, he could not agree questions respecting the army of occupawith him as to the danger of withdrawing tion and the family of Bourbon, which the the army of occupation. Ile could not noble earl had started. With regard to pariake entirely in the view of that noble the subject of finance, the noble earl had earl, and was rather inclined to believe gone so far as to state, that the income that time had removed many of the objeco of the country was many millions below tions which might have been urged against the expenditure. He should only say, withdrawing the allied troops. He agreed that when the accounts were fairly before with the noble earl in thinking, that the the House, he should be prepared to meet occupation of the throne of France by the noble earl on this question. Then the Bourbon family was most favourable would be the proper time for any discus. to the interests of Europe, as well as of sion which the noble earl might think proFrance, provided they adhered to consti- per to bring forward; but he would then tutional principles. This, he was persuaded, find that the opinion he now entertained was felt' to be the case, in that country; was most erroneous. The noble lord had and though there might be different par complained of the superabundance of exties there, and though he carried his chequer bills; but if he inquired into the opinion as to the supporting the present real state of the case, he would find that French government, as far as he believed there was, upon the whole, a reduction, end that the interest was very little more cover all ths charges on the national debt, than 2 per cent. Another complaint of and all the other expenses of the governthe noble earl was, that nothing had been ment. done in the way of economy and reduc- The Earl of Lauderdale wished to retion. On this subject, too, he was per- mind the noble earl that the sinking-fund fectly ready to meet the noble earl, when amounted to nearly fifteen millions. Was the proper time for discussion came. But this then to be understood as the noble the noble earl could not fail to know from earl's proposition—that after deducting the journals of the other House of parlia- fifteen millions, this country possessed a ment, that the peace establishment of the revenue capable of covering the present country had undergone the serious consi- expenditure, and paying the interest of deration of a committee in the course of the debt? the last session, and that measures were The Earl of Liverpool said, he never then taken for reducing the different intended to state any such thing. The departments of the public service to the noble earl could not suppose that he meant lowest scale on which they could with to assert that the country had an excess propriety be placed. The noble earl, it of revenue amounting to fifteen millions. appeared, thought those establishments Lord King maintained, that, in that still too great; and that might be a sub- case, the sinking-fund was merely nomiject of inquiry when the question came nal, and that no part of the debt was acregularly before their lordships; but it tually discharged by it, there being no had nothing to do with it at present. The excess of revenue over the expenditure. noble earl had said, that a saving might The Ear) of Liverpool denied this conarise by withdrawing from the frontiers of clusion, and contended, that, including France that part of the army of occupa- the sinking.fund, there was an actual extion which belonged to this country; but cess of revenue over expenditure, and on what foundation did he rest that opi- that to the amount of that excess (upwards nion ? Could he show that the recall of of two millions) there was an actual dimiour army would be any saving whatever nution of the aggregate amount of debt. to the country? The view which the The bill went through the committee. noble earl appeared to have formed of the expense of that army was totally erro- PETITIONS COMPLAINING OF THE OPEneous; and however desirable saving RATION OF THE HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENmight be, he must look for some other sion Act.] Lord Holland wished, before sources of economy than the reduction of the House proceeded to the order of the day, a force by which little or no expense was to call their lordships attention to two incurred. With regard to the revenue, petitions, which he had to present. The he assured the poble earl that it more subject of these petitions was similar to than covered the expenditure.

that which his noble friend had presented Earl Gresvenor expressed himself not the other day, and on which he was now satisfied with what had been done in the about to make a motion. They had been way of reduction, in consequence of the put into his hands not two hours before institution of a committee by the other he came down to the House, and though House of parliament; and was of opinion, he had not had time to read them minutely, notwithstanding what had been said by he could say that their titles were correctly the noble earl, that a considerable ex- worded and that they were couched in pense was incurred by this country in in language which he considered decorous maintaining the army on the frontiers of and respectful. They both complained France.

of the execution of the act for the suspenThe Earl of Lauderdale was surprised sion of the Habeas Corpus. The first to hear what had fallen from the noble came from a person of the name of Knight, earl on the subject of the finances. Did and stated several circumstances of cruelty he mean to say, that the revenue of this which were worthy of inquiry, and descountry was capable of covering the cribed a variety of sufferings which the charges on the consolidated fund, and all petitioner had undergone in consequence the present expenditure ?

of his being arrested, fettered, imprisoned, The Earl of Liverpool wished to be un- and finally compelled to enter into recog. derstood to say, that the whole revenue nizances. He knew nothing of Mr. of the country, in which he included the Knight; but in presenting this or any sinking fund was more than sufficient to other petition, he wished it to be understood, that he neither vouched for the cret Committee; and he was therefore about truth of the statements which it contained, to make the motion immediately to do so, or the character of the individual from but finding that a difference of opinion whom it came. It was his duty to bring did exist, he had put it to his majesty's the complaint under the notice of the ministers to name a later day for the disHouse. The second petition was from a cussion of the question, if they were not man respecting whose character he had then prepared to meet it. He had then heard reports, but as they were not of a stated what he now repeated, that he was favourable nature, he should not state wholly ignorant of the character of the them. His name was Mitchell, and he person who had signed this petition. He also stateil that he had suffered severely was aware that, it he should call on their in consequence of being unjustly impri- lordships to enter into any specific invessoned. As he had before observed, he tigation of the petition, it was incumbent could not vouch for the truth of the alle- on him to make a fuller inquiry into the gations in these petitions; but he thought merits of the petitioner, and to ascertain it no way surprising, that persons who had them, before he could show a ground for suffered unjustly should sometimes state any proceeding upon the subject; but their case with a degree of aggravation, that was not the present case. Their lordnor could he regard that as a reason for ships had agreed to a committee, at the not inquiring into the facts. It was fit suggestion of ministers; they had gone the petitions should be laid on their lord- into an inquiry, and because ministers ships table, whether the injury complained thought fit that that inquiry should not be of was attributed to ministers, or to per as open as the nature of the case desons of inferior authority. He had made manded, they had stated (for the conthese remarks, because he knew from ex- tents of the green bag were known to few), perience, that when complaints were made that the object of the committee was to of the violation of the laws and constitu. lay before the House an exposition of the tion, it was ofien endeavoured to identify whole conduct of ministers, and an expothe individual who brought forward such sition of the state of the country since the complaints with the cause of the persons report of the last committee. Their lord. into whose statements it was proposed to ships had voted that committee, the cominquire. He was standing up for the laws mittee had commenced its inquiries, and of the country, and not for the character it was not too much to assume that it had of the petitioners, or the accuracy of their also gone into an investigation on the constatements.

duct of ministers ; the only question now The petitions of John Knight, and of was, whether that inquiry should be limite Joseph Mitchell were then read. They ed to the documents that ministers should were couched in the same terms as the lay before the committee, or whether it petitions of the same individuals to the should be entered into with that spirit and House of Commons. [Scep p.191,399.] degree of investigation that the nature of With respect to the petition from Mitchell, the case imperiously demanded. Minislord Holland observed, that several of the ters had told the House, that one object statements in it could be verified by per- of the committee was to inquire into their sons of respectability. The petitions were conduct ; if so, it must be with a view to ordered to lie on the table.

ascertain whether it was meritorious or

not. On this he would give no opinionMotion RESPECTING THE PETITIONS not that he meant to imply his majesty's COMPLAINING OF IMPRISONMENT UNDER ministers would be found in fault, in case The Habeas CORPUS SUSPENSION Act.] an inquiry should really take place (he The order of the day having been read hoped that the more their conduct was forr eferring the Petition of Samuel Drum- inquired into, the more clear it would mond to the Secret Committee,

turn out;) but he was sure that if they The Earl of Carnarvon said, that when, wished this to be the result of the ina few days ago, he offered to the notice quiry, it must not be entered into merely of the House the petition of this person, upon evidence brought forward by themwho had been confined under the suspen- selves, upon a case of their own show, sion of the Habeas Corpus act, he did ing, and before a tribunal packed by not conceive there could be any difference themselves; he said, packed by themselves, of opinion as to the propriety of referring for he begged to state to their lordships, those petitionstothe consideration of these and he was sure he could not be contra.

If an

dicted by ministers themselves, that, in were, and what was to be the result of the the formation of that committee, regular committee of inquiry? but then, as they lists had been prepared, and there was did not know who would form the comnot one name that was not inserted by mittee, they professed an entire ignorance ministers themselves, or at least upon of the objects it might have in view, or their own nomination. Yet, before even what would be the result of its investigasuch a tribunal as that, constituted in tion. He would state at once, and minis. the manner he had described, he was ters might contradict him if they could, willing that inquiry should be made, that their view then, and now, was to obas far as it could be made.

tain a bill of indemnity, and he was confiinquiry was really to be entered on, dent the inquiry of the committee would there was a possibility that something terminate in a recommendation to the might have been reprehensible in the House to pass such bills of indemnity. If conduct of ministers, or their agents ; this investigation was not entered into for and, if so, were they from their own of the mere purpose of gratifying curiosity, fices to draw up their own statements, but if it was meant to lead to so serious and produce them before the committee, and important a measure as shutting the as a satisfactory means of arriving at the door of justice against those who had suftruth either of their good or of their eyil fered, whether deservedly or not, under deeds? Was it not natural to suppose, the acts of ministers: he repeated, if those that they would overlook the serious unfortunate men were to be excluded charges, if not intentionally, through neg- from justice by a bill of indemnity, were lect or mistake, and call upon the House their cases also to be excluded from all to concur in their justification by making previous examination before the passing them participators in their ignorance? of such an enactment? Would their lordIf they left it to the discretion of those ships, if they had any regard for the gentleinen to prepare, not only their own people, or any sense of justice remaining, case, but the whole of the evidence by consent to such a proposal? If so, if such which that case was to be tried, they a course was thought, under all circum, might trust to Heaven for justice, but stances, to be expedient, let it be at once they might depend upon it, that such manfully avowed. Let the House tell facts would only find their way into the those unfortunate men, that there was no committee as were most favourable to justice for them, either in parliament or parties on their defence. Would their before the ordinary tribunals of the coun. lordships be satisfied upon such evidence, try. Let the House tell them, that they or could they arrive at any conclusion were determined to proceed in such a upon it? Take it which way they would, manner, as to secure the protection of they could derive no information from the ministers, the authors of their wrongs; green bag which ministers had not put while to the victims either of their vigour, into it. Let them look to the proceedings or of their imbecility, all hopes of redress of those ministers themselves. Before were for ever to be denied. If such was two days had elapsed, after the produc- the determination of their lordships, let tion of the green bag, containing, as was it be stated so at once, without holding at first stated, all the information neces. out the mockery of redress, by making the sary, they showed that, even in their own accused their own judges. Whether they opinion, that information was not suffi- should do this or not, was the issue on cient. At that time another green bag which the House was to join that night. was introduced, containing God knows But he trusted, their lordships would not what; but clearly intimating that some- go the length of determining to prepare thing had been withheld from the former; the way for a bill of indemnity, and to try and if that was not sufficient, even in mi- ministers on evidence produced by them nisters' own opinion, why might we not selves alone. These were the grounds on have a third green bag produced, as a which he called on them to refer these supplement to the second ? why might petitions to the Committee of Secrecy; not not much more be necessary, if truth was Drummond's petition alone, but all the really sought as the result of the inquiry? others; for there was the same ground for But the importance of this inquiry mainly attending to the prayer of all of them. depended on the objects that ministers The House was not obliged to form disa had in view. On the first day of the ses- tinct opinions upon each, it was not possion they were asked, what those objects sible that it could do so, but it was un

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