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pared to break out about the same time. spect to the appointment of a committee in Yorkshire, an insurrection did take by ballot, or otherwise, he thought it a place; an armed mob fired upon the question of no importance, for there was king's troops, and the greatest distur- no reason to doubt that exactly the same bances were threatened. If it be replied men would be chosen, whether they proto this, that there was no conviction, be ceeded by ballot or by motion. The would say, that though, from the darkness ballot was resorted to for the election of of the niglit, and the difficulty of identi- a committee, because it was thought that fying the persons who had assembled to some members who would not choose to commit the acts of violence, a verdict act ostensibly against the administration, could not be obtained against them, yet would yet vote against them under this the fact of the insurrection was no less cover of secrecy. He did not know if true and undoubted. It had been asked this would be the case, but at least such by an hon. and learned friend of his, why was the ground of its adoption. He did the evidence connecting the prisoners at not, therefore, see how it could be more Derby with other associations had not favourable to ministers to elect a combeen brought forward on the trial? and mittee by ballot, in preference to one by he thought this question was easily an- motion, for there was no reason why the swered without affecting the truth of such person who put a particular name into a a combination. Enough was brought out, glass should not vote for it also. If enough was proved, to convict the un- ministers had a majority in both cases, happy men in question; and it would their committee would be appointed, and have been superfluous to have called more their favourable chance would not be inevidence. He even saw the propriety of creased by the former mode of nominanot trying these men for the plot, when tion. sufficient facts could be established for Sir W. Burroughs did not at first intheir conviction of the act of treason it-tend to have addressed the House on the self. Supposing the prisoners had been present occasion, but it appeared to him taken up inmediately after their meetings impossible to sit still while the Suspension and arrangements, supposing that the only act was under discussion, and not to atwitnesses against them had been those tempt an answer to what had fallen from admitted to a knowledge of their secrets the hon. and learned member who spoke and intended projects, and supposing the last. That hon. member thought that charge of treason alone to have been subsequent events had completely justi. grounded on their machinations against fied the measure. He (sir W. Burroughs) the public tranquillity without any overt was of a different opinion, and he would acts, there was such an odium in the state the grounds of that opinion. Lookcountry at the time against accomplices ing at the reports on which the Suspenwho turned witnesses, that they would not sion act was grounded, he found, in the have been believed. They would have first, that a conspiracy was alleged to been branded with the names of spies and have been formed in London to burn the informers, their evidence would have been barracks, to storm the Tower, to seize heard with disgust, and their testimony upon the Bank, to destroy the bridges, entirely rejected. When the overt act and and in short, to overturn the government, intention could be proved, there was no and to subvert the order of society. But necessity for going into all their previous what were the facts that appeared on the counsels. He therefore thought that the trial of Watson and the other prisoners tried prosecution behaved properly in not call- in Westminster-hall ? and how did the ing such extraneous evidence, and that no evidence given on that occasion support suspicion could be thrown on the policy the representations of the secret committee? of the suspension act by withholding it. The conspiracy was found to have been This measure was extremely useful in pre- formed by two surgeons without employserving the public tranquillity, till the ment, a man of broken fortune, two cobcircumstances of the country were altered, blers, and the bully of a brothel. It did and till the people, by the attainment of not appear that any person of respectabia more prosperous state, were withdrawn lity or influence favoured their projects, from the influence of those who exasper- or partook of their counsels, or that they ated their discontents into disaffection. had any connexion with other conspiraUpon the whole, he saw no cause to re- tors or agitators in the country. Then pent the vote he had given. With re, there followed a second report, which omitted all mention of the conspiracy of, fluence on his fate, imputed to the instithe metropolis. The hand-bills, exciting gation of Oliver the crime for which he to the murder of the Prince Regent and was about to suffer. But, said the soliciof the noble lord opposite, of which tor-general on a former night, why did 5,000 copies were said to have been pre not the learned counsel for the defence pared, were no where to be found. The of the prisoners bring forward and exa seat of the conspiracy was, therefore, mine this person, if his evidence was transferred to the north, and the dis- so important? The reason of this is turbances which afterwards gave occasion obvious. He could not have been exato the trials at Derby were brought for- mined as to their consenting to commit ward. But it appeared that this formida- treason, without proving the treason for ble insurrection was dispersed by the or- which they were arraigned. He must dinary efforts of the magistrates; that the have been the most dangerous witness ringleaders were arrested, imprisoned, and they could have called ; and if they had brought to trial. The rising took place produced him, they must have produced in June, the trials took place at Derby in the means of their own conviction. The October, and nothing happened in the admission that they had consulted with interval to excite any alarm, or to call him to overturn the government, would for the exercise of extraordinary powers. have amounted to a confession of their It was said by the hon. and learned gen- crime, and deprived them of all the means tleman, that the evidence of previous of defence. In the second report of the plots and meetings was not necessary on committee of secrecy; they shifted the these trials, but he begged leave to differ scene from London to Manchester, where from him. The judges, in addressing the the conspirators were to burn the town, juries on that occasion, laid down the law, and massacre the inhabitants. If such and very properly, in his opinion, that a were the designs of the men apprehended rising for a general and public object under the Suspension act, how could miconstituted the crime for which the pri- nisters account to their country for havsoners were indicted ; and that the only ing liberated them without a trial? On questions on which they were called to what plea could they be discharged, at decide, related to the overt act of the in- first with the idle farce of taking their resurrection, and the general purpose. Now, cognizances, and afterwards from their reto have established by evidence the con- cognizances ? If this was not a confession nexion of the prisoners with other con- that the ministers bad nothing to produce spirators in different parts of the country, against the alleged traitors at Manchester, frequent meetings and common objects, and that the evidence on which the rewould have at once decided the nature of port of the committee in which they were their design, which was the only thing on arraigned was unfounded, they incurred which there could remain a doubt, and a heavy responsibility for sending back the non-existence of which was the only such dangerous characters into society. circumstance on which their counsel restTheir conduct was inexplicable on the ed their defence. If it had been shown supposition that the report was true, and that they were acting in concert with the Suspension act could not be justified persons at Manchester, at London, at on the ground that it was not. No events Nottingham, or in Yorkshire, for over- happened since to justify such a measure. turning the government, the fact of their if he might advert to one melancholy having committed high treason could not event which had united the nation in one have been doubted for an instant. Why, common expression of sorrow, he might then, was not such evidence brought for draw from it an irresistible inference, that ward ? It was not difficult to discover the minds of the people were sound, and the reason. Had the prosecution gone that their attachment to the House of into testimony for this purpose, it would Brunswick remained unshaken. Never have appeared, that the insurrection had in any country was there more sincere or. been arranged and encouraged by the more general sympathy, and never did agents of government. One of the un. any nation more unequivocally testify

, happy men convicted on this occasion, their affection for the family of their sonearly at his dying moment, when he vereign. With respect to the immediate might have been supposed to be inclined question before the House, he could not to speak the truth, and when he was as- agree that the election of a committee by sured that a falsehood could have no in- ballot was so favourable to free inquiry as

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one by motion. Suppose a committee trusted that the House would challenge were to be elected by motion, the noble the name of every minister that might aplord and the right hon. gentleman, as it pear on the returned list. was to decide on their own conduct, Sir John Sebright said, that after readmight feel a little delicacy in nominating ing the reports of the secret committees themselves : whereas a ballot totally de- of the last session, he at that time felt stroys this feeling; and though the list that the state of the country, as described was made by themselves, they might still in those reports, required, in his judgbe on it without offending any sense of ment, the passing of the suspension acto propriety. That the proposed committee Under that impression he bad given the was intended to bring in a posthumous measure his support, being ever deterjustification of the Suspension act, there mined to strengthen the activity of the could be no doubt. Could any other ob- executive government, for the purpose ject be conceived in the inquiry but an of putting down all conspiracies against indemnity bill? The suspension act was the peace and tranquillity of the state. abrogated; it would not be their in- But he had that night a duty to himself, tention to renew it. Did they mean to his constituents, and his country, to to recommend the continuance of the discharge, in declaring that he was grossly seditious meeting bill? Was this to hang mistaken in the view he had taken of the over the head of the people during public danger at the period, and in the the ensuing general election? "An indem- necessity for arming ministers with these nity bill would certainly be the first mea- extraordinary powers. The gentlemen on

If then indemnity was the ob- that side were much mistaken if they beject, he begged to say, that the Suspen- lieved that he rose for the purpose of sion act gave to the servants of the crown abusing the ministers of the Crown. No! no new powers for the apprehension of He believed that they had no intention the subject. It merely gave the power of to deceive the country, but his conviction postponing his release. But the noble was that they were themselves deceived. lord had allowed that some violation of Every occurrence that had subsequently the law might have taken place. To what transpired had convinced him that there did that admission amount? It amounted existed no one circumstance to justify to this, that ministers, by their own ac. the suspension, even for a moment, of knowledgement even, exceeded the ex- that great bulwark of British liberty, the tended limits of the very extraordinary Habeas Corpus act. Evil designing men powers which they themselves felt suffi- might have been active in taking advancient for the public danger at the time—a tage of the public distress, but the ordidanger, it would be recollected, that was nary laws were fully sufficient to counnow proved to be idle to most, and doubt-teract and defeat their efforts. In de ful to all. But the House would not for claring that opinion he took no credit for get that it had an obligation to discharge himself: it was an imperative duty to the to the sufferers under these extraordinary country, to assert that, in his opinion, the powers. Had the imprisoned no claims? coercive measure was not justified by neIn what way had they to satisfy their own cessity. feelings, to reinstate themselves in the Mr. Ellison contended, that no one good opinion of their connexions and could believe otherwise than that Brancountry, to redeem theniselves with so. dreth had had a gross falsehood imposed ciety, but by bringing their whole conduct

on him respecting Oliver, at the time of his into public discussion, by an action at law examination. That we had been in danger against the persons under whose warrant he had no doubt; but thank God, we had they were apprehended? If there has subdued it. He could state, from his own been an abuse of power, were the sufferers experience as a magistrate, that there to be deprived of a remedy on a report of had been emissaries going about the a committee, recommended by the very country, to excite the people to outrages. persons accused, and to be taken on the But he thought that if parliament had ex-parte statements which those very ac- not acted as they had done, they would cused might think proper to adduce? If have been guilty of a dereliction of their that be the course to be pursued, he must duty, and if ministers could not make out pronounce it one of the most violent expe- a good case of justification as to the exdients ever submitted to an impartial and ercise of the discretionary powers inenlightened assembly. At all events, he trusted to them, he would pledge himself to vote against them. He protested | many of those persons who had been in against that sort of blasphemous and se- the habit of attending public meetings, ditious trash with which we were inun- and of making inflammatory speeches to dated, and the object of which was to de. the public, it might have been better. moralize the country.

He would rather have seen some of those Mr. Savile considered the country as men apprehended, than some who had much improved since last year, in its com- been only excited to do what they did, mercial, agricultural, and manufacturing by their specches. Had such been the interests, but he could not altogether give case, he was convinced it would have met the ministers credit for its amelioration. With the approbation of a very large porThe hints, the strong hints, which they tion of the population. had received from parliament, induced The question was then put and agreed them to take the measures of economy to, as were the questions that the comand retrenchment which had been somittee should be a committee of secrecy, successful. It was the great boast of the and should consist of 21 members.

On country, and the best answer to bold re- the question, “ That the committee be formers, that such recommendations were chosen by way of balloting,” sure to have an operative influence on the Mr. Brougham said, that, passing over executive government. So long as mi- the merits of the discussion as to the apnisters attended to the voice of parlia- pointment of the committee at all, and ment, he would always give them his referring merely to the question of form, support. He wished to be considered as he wished to ask the noble lord, how it an independent man, and when he gave was possible by the usual mode of ballot, his support to ministers, he gave it on ge. to get out of the difficulty that must arise, neral grounds.

He had never desired a should the noble lord, as secretary of place from ministers. He came into par- state, be returned on the list given by the liament perfectly unbiassed, and he should scrutineers after the ballot? Looking, he always consider an independent voice in would say, to the substantial object of such an assembly as a greater glory than impartiality with a view to ultimate inany situation that could be conferred demnity, the noble Jord himself must upon him. He had no wish to stand well admit, that he ought not to be on that with ministers. He wished to stand well list. As it would be for she committee, with the respectable part of mankind in ge- probably, to report whether certain indineral, for he was not indifferent to the vox viduals should be debarred from bringing populi. He thought every man should be their actions at law against persons reconsidered as independent, however he turned on that list, some of whom had might change his opinion, who did not go been already perhaps made a party on the from one side of the House to the other record, he was anxious to koow, before for his own benefit. He had now had a the question of ballot was put, whether seat in that assembly for 11 years, and he in case of that question being carried, could safely say, that he had never got any subsequent mode presented itself of any thing for his vote. He had been ao arguing the question as to the individual cused of inconsistency, for having voted propriety? According to the mode adopt against the ministers in the last session ; ed last session, he believed there existed and he had been told that his opposition no mode, after the return of the scrutiwas imputed to a refusal on the part of neers, of taking the sense of the House mipisters of a situation for a diplomatic on a separate name. friend of his. He disclaimed such a mo- Mr. Canning said, that the noble lord's tive. He had got a seat in that assembly name would not appear on the returned on independent principles: he had re- list, unless it was the sense of the majo. ceived an independent fortune from his rity of the House that it ought to be father, and he would never disgrace either there. What, then, was there extraorby sacrificing his independence.

dinary in the case, but that the minority Mr. Forbes said, he did not think that could not turn round on the decision of the measures which his majesty's ministers the majority of the House. It was the had adopted had been by any means uncalled usual custom of parliament to elect such for or unnecessary, though he considered committces by ballot; and if there was that some different use might have been any one mode by which the individual made of them. If they had been em- dissent of members on an individual namo ployed in stopping the proceedings of could be more distinctly obtained, it was

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