had been certainly four times on the right funds, in which they got an interest of hon. gentleman's travelling list, twice seven per cent; which, if the security was

, going and twice returning from France not so good, afforded an ample insurance during the last two years. The calcula- against risk. Besides the 12,000 persons tion of expense was, he thought, an exag- who were constantly abroad, there were gerated one-at least he hoped to be al- many others who were continually making lowed to put in a protest against the ave- remittances of their capital for the sake rage share of it, which on this amount he of higher interest, and every step which might be supposed to have incurred, for the chancellor of the exchequer took the proportion assigned was certainly tended to promote this. When the rate above his mark [A laugh). The foreign of interest fell in proportion to the prosloans formed also a principal part of the perity of the country, it was to be wellreasons which dictated the right hon. gen- comed as a signal of that prosperity; but tleman's present measure. The English he deprecated the artificial system of contribution to these loans could of course raising the funds by the exertion of the be ascertained; but how could the sums govroment. Since the 25th of June last, raised in France be ascertained ? By an every exertion of the chancellor of the examination of the parties concerned, exchequer had been directed to that end. the British share in these transactions He had been authorized to raise 300,0001. could be got at, and the House could then on the security of the woods and forests, see the extent of their operation as af- but as he did not immediately want the fecting the currency of this country. It money, he had put it in the funds. Lucki. would then, he had no doubt, be seen that ly, the speculation had succeeded—but in a these loans would not furnish the slight- private individual this would have been est argument for one hour's farther con- called stock-jobbing. There was the tinuance of the Restriction act. The clause also to augment the produce of the whole secret lay in the transactions be- sinking fund in November and December tween the bank directors and the right last. By these acts, the price of stock hon. gentleman, who knew very well that had been raised, and the efficiency of the the former were his masters. “ 1,” said sinking fund had been consequently dimiMr. Tierney, “ told him so two years nished. The expectation of reducing the ago; and I may use the words of the 5 per cents had, however, failed, and poet-1 thought so then, and now I know they now remained just as they were, it” [A laugh). Without the Bank ad- though, not long ago, the chancellor of vances and dealings with the right hon. the exchequer had not doubted that the gentleman, half his bubbles would have interest of them could be reduced at least burst while he was blowing them up. to 4 per cent. The fluctuations which He trusted that a committee would be had taken place in the funds had origiappointed to inquire into the reasons for nated in the doubt, whether or no cash continuing the restriction in a manner so payments by the Bank would be resumed. suspicious that it seemed as if it had been | That doubt had now been settled. The determined to continue it for ever. The evil day was postponed, because the chanBank by their purchases of exchequer bills, cellor of the exchequer was afraid of fawere the masters of the chancellor of the cing it. There was reason for some fear exchequer: It was strange that the chan- that the return to the former system of cellor of the exchequer, who was alive to the country would be attended with diffithe danger of persons investing their culty, and some danger; but this was a money in foreign funds, should try to reason why it should not be postponed, as make our own as unproductive as possible. by every delay the difficulty and danger When he made that attack upon the

were increased.

Every ground on which sinking fund, which had reduced it to its the resumption of cash payments had been present state, he had given as a reason, formerly opposed was now entirely done that if the sinking fund went on increasing away. "The pretext of the foreign loans it would lower the interest of money. Yet was now brought forward, and it was for now the object of all his plans was, to ef. the House to say, whether they would fect this reduction of the rate of interest hold up to Europe the example of a paper which he had before dreaded as an evil. circulation, merely because other countries At the present price of our stocks, how took a different course. The drain on was it possible to prevent persons from this country by French loans he was perlembarking their money in the French suaded, would not be considerable. There (VOL. XXXVII.)

(4 L)

was much unemployed capital in France; considerably below it. Notwithstanding and he was persuaded that the conse- this favourable change, nothing had been quence of the course that country now done by the right hon. gentleman, who pursued, would be, that they would not said that it was better at such a moment to need much pecuniary assistance from let matters subside and settle. The state abroad. He again pressed on the House of the harvest of 1816 was also alluded the necessity of a committee. Without to, and also that of the following year ; some inquiry, who could affirm that the but the right hon. gentleman could not Bank might not be able to resume its pay- forget that for the whole spring and summents? Perhaps six months might be mer of 1817, the course of exchange was time enough for it to prepare for resuming greatly in our favour, and the price of them. And above all, some enactments the precious metals at par. It was in the should be made to compel them to make autumn of 1817 that these advantages preparations against the time fixed by law ceased, and then, not on account of the for the expiration of the restriction. This, harvest, but in consequence of the intoo the chancellor of the exchequer would creased issue of bank notes which then resist, more than all the rest. His object took place. There was the index and the was to keep up a great paper circulation, barometer by which the real cause and to force up the stocks, and to reduce the its progress could be distinctly explained. 5 per cents. But the House, he hoped, | The last reason was, the foreign loans. would not lend itself to this project without This was equally futile. If a wealthy examination. If the report was brought German merchant happened to settle in up on Monday, he should move to post this country, and contract for a Prussian pone it, in order to move for a committee. I loan—and a rich English merchant should Without some inquiry, the right hon. gen- go over to Paris, and treat for a French tleman could not with decency require the loan, was it to be borne that for such a assent of the House to his plan ; nor would reason incalculable mischiefs should be Mr. Pitt, with all his confidence in him- endured by a whole people? He could self, have ventured to demand it under not dwell without warmth on such flimsy such circumstances.

pretexts; but he would at present restrain Mr. Grenfell concurred in the senti- himself, and defer his observations until ments which had been so ably delivered the bill was brought in. On the subject by his right hon. friend. He would not of the country banks, he would at present on the present occasion enter into details, only put one question to the right hon. but he could not refrain from making a gentleman, and that was, whether the few allusions to the many pretexts on stock deposits were to be held as security which the restriction act had been pro- for the il. and 21. notes only, or for the longed, and which, if continued, would 5l. and higher ones also ? have so injurious an effect upon all the The Chancellor of the Exchequer stated, property of the kingilom, and necessarily that he had no intention whatever to cast produce here the same mischiefs that such any reflection upon country bankers, nor a system had uniformly produced in every was such a supposition warranted by the country in the civilized world which was character of the measure which he proleft to depend on a paper issue not con- posed to bring forward; for this measure vertible to a metallic currency. The was not suggested by any degree of disright hon. the chancellor of the ex- trust or suspicion in those individuals, but chequer had stated something like three by a reasonable and proper solicitude for reasons for the continuance of the re- the interest and satisfaction of the public. striction act (that of the country banks With regard to the question of the hon. he looked on as a minor consideration in gentleman who had just sat down, he had comparison with this) – The first was, the to state, that the proposed deposit of state of foreign exchanges, and the prices stock by country bankers was to form a of gold. Now, he recollected that in 1815 security for all notes under five pounds the reasons urged were, that the course which these bankers might issue, but of exchange was 11 per cent against us, any surplus deposit would be deemed an and the price of bullion 14 per cent. But additional security for their other notes. what had been done in the following year As to the assertion of the right hon. gento redeem the solemn pledges made? The tleman with respect to the influence of the exchange was in 1816 in our favour; gold foreign loans in 1795, upon the price of was only 3 per cent above par, and silver bullion, he should refer to the evidence

ounce.

could say, for the satisfaction of the right of

of Mr. Abraham Newland, before a com- worth while to favour the House with a mittee of that House. From this evidence single observation upon a subject so mait appeared that the price of bullion in terially affecting the credit of the esta1797, was four guineas an

To blishment with which they were connected. the observation of the right hon. gentle. With respect to the evidence of Mr. Newman respecting the issue of debentures land, he distinctlyrecollected the particulars upon the capital stock of the country, he of that evidence. Mr. Newland was asked,

whether the price of gold in 1797 was not hon. gentleman and the public, that no so high as four guineas, and that gentlesuch plan was ever in his contemplation. man answered in the affirmative. But this, He had seen what had been written upon he (Mr. G.) could affirm, was not the this subject by Mr. Dunn, by whom so market price of gold, as would indeed much discussion as to this point had been appear from an examination of the tables. excited in the public newspapers. He It was, indeed, true, that the Bank paid had also had some communications with four guineas an ounce for gold, but this this individual, and without meaning to expense was incurred upon gold imported say that no case could arise in which it in 1797 from Hamburgh, through the might not be expedient to convert the house of Eliason and Co., and this gold, capital of our debt into a floating secu- when brought to the Bank, cost four guirity, he did object to the adoption of neas an ounce; that, however, was not Mr. Dunn's plan at present, because he the market price of the day. conceived that, while there were so many The motion was agreed to. The House exchequer bills in the market, either resumed, and leave was given to bring in those bills or the proposed debentures iwo Bills ; the first, “ for farther continumust fall in value. The idea of issuing ing an act of the 44th of the king, to a paper circulation upon the security of continue the restrictions contained in sestock, was, it would be recollected, sug- veral acts of his present majesty on paygested many years ago in the pamphlet ments of cash by the Bank of England;" of Mr. Weston, a most respectable soli- the second, “to authorize bankers in citor, but Mr. Pitt did not at the time England and Ireland to issue and circulate think it expedient to act upon that sug. promissory notes secured upon a deposit gestion. There was, indeed, a part of the of public Funds, or other government scheme of Mr. Weston to which he (the securities." chancellor of the exchequer) felt a strong objection, namely, that of rendering

HOUSE OF LORDS. such paper a legal tender. This pamphlet of Mr. Weston's was, however, of

Friday, April 10. considerable value, and he was free to STATE OF THE CURRENCY OF THE confess, that a part of the plan which he COUNTRY.] The Earl of Lauderdale had that night had the honour to submit said, that after what had passed last night to the committee, was taken from it. in another place, to which he conceived He hoped that this plan would serve to he was at perfect liberty to allude, he provide a remedy against the introduction thought it necessary to advert to the moof an insecure currency into the general tion of which he had given notice, respectcirculation of the country. If it were ing the currency of the country. The said, as it had been urged in the course business to which he referred was intiof the discussion, that this plan would mately connected with the subject of his leave the larger notes of country bankers motion, and was of the greatest imporcomparatively insecure, he should answer, tance. Two measures, he understood, that that objection was of no importance, had been proposed; first, the continuing as such notes were always liable to be of the Bank restriction act; secondly, a considered with more care, and received regulation respecting the notes of country with more caution,

bankers. Both were measures which Mr. Grenfell observed, that it was called for the serious consideration of their somewhat singular that a pamphlet pub- lordships ; but the latter was, besides, an lished in 1800, and so much applauded, extraordinary innovation on the general should only now come to be acted upon. principles on which banking establishHe expressed his surprise, that although ments had hitherto been conducted, and there were seven directors of the Bank one which, in his opinion, required the present, not one of them had thought it immediate attention of that House. Under these circumstances he had resolved not would be found also, that rules expressly to postpone his motion, which would have made by the courts for the benefit of suifor its object the paper currency, as well tors had been perverted to their injury. as the coinage, of the country. He should A remarkable instance of this kind octherefore bring it forward on Thursday. curred with regard to an order made by

the court of chancery in Ireland, to allow Fees or Courts of Justice.] The the solicitors in causes to attend, instead Marquis of Lansdowne rose to move an of the six clerks. It had been contrived address to the Crown, for copies of the to evade the effect of that order; and, in reports of the commissioners appointed one case, no less than 197 attendances in 1814, to inquire into the Fees paid to were charged to a suitor, though not one officers of the several Courts of Justice in of the clerks had attended. It would the united kingdom. He could not anti- likewise appear, that most unjustifiable cipate any opposition to this application ; extortions had been practised with regard at the same time, the discoveries which to offices executed by deputies. In some the commissioners had made with respect instances, where the emoluments of the 10 the practice of taking fees, especially principal arose from fees, he had appointed in one part of the united kingdom, were a deputy, who increased the fees; that of so extraordinary a nature, that he ap- deputy again sometimes appointed a clerk, prehended he might be excused, if he who made additional fees ; so that the called their lordships attention to them by unfortunate suitors had, first, to pay the a few observations. When the authority principal; secondly, the deputy; and was given for the inquiries which had been thirdly, the clerk. Indeed, in many of instituted, it certainly never was supposed the courts in the sister kingdom, the that any of the venerable persons at the clerks had been in the habit of varying head of the courts in the united kingdom the price paid for the sheet of office copies had, in any way, sanctioned the abuses of papers, without assigning any reason, which had grown up. Accordingly, it except that they found some solicitors was found upon inquiry, what, indeed, no willing to pay more than others. When inquiry was necessary to establish, that they met with solicitors who were disposed their character was unimpeachable, and to do their duty towards their clients, they that the more it was investigated, the abated in their demands ; but when the more evident its purity would appear. It solicitors were inclined to yield, the exmust, however, be obvious to their lord- actions of these gentlemen increased in ships, that it was perfectly impossible for proportion. In some of these courts, the the heads of courts to superintend all the practice followed in taxing bills of costs details of the practice of clerks and in- was often rendered a subject of great vex, ferior officers, in which the interests of ation to the parties. It might be expected suitors were involved. It had, indeed, that the party to whom that duty was rebeen found, that in one part of the united ferred would be one who had no direct kingdom (Ireland), suitors had suffered interest in the matter. Yet, in one court, most severely from the unjust and illegal it had so happened, that the party who exactions of officers holding situations in made the charges had been allowed to the courts of law, He should briefly al- tax the costs. It thus often happened, lude to some of those iniquitous extortions, that the charges were 50 per cent higher and in doing so, he must remind their than they ought to be. There was an inlordships, that no class of persons were stance in one of the courts, in a case of placed in so defenceless a situation as error, where the demand for office copies poor suitors, who were destitute of all of papers amounted to 400l., though the means of resisting the extortions imposed property in question did not exceed 3001. upon them; and that therefore none were This enormous demand had induced the more entitled to their attention and pro- party to make an application to superior tection. It would, however, appear from authorities ; but he found he could obthe reports for which he was about to tain no relief, except by proceeding with move, that there was scarcely an instance his suit, which would have increased his in the practice of certain courts having expense. He was therefore induced to been enacted by the legislature, though abandon all farther proceedings, though intended for purposes unconnected with it was generally understood that the opifees, which was not made an instrument nion of the court was favourable to his of new extortions from the suitors. It claim.—There was one circumstance more connected with law proceedings to which be graciously pleased to give orders that he should take the liberty of referring, Copies of the Reports of the Commissioners and in what he should say on that subject appointed to inquire into the Fees of the he was fully persuaded he should be sup- Courts of Justice in England, Scotland, ported by the concurrent opinion of the and Ireland, be laid upon the table of the noble and learned lord on the woolsack. House." He meant the state of the law with regard The Earl of Liverpool did not rise for to the stamps on legal proceedings. The the purpose of opposing the motion, which, duties on stamps had been imposed during on the contrary, had his most cordial supa time of war ; but if the necessities of port, but to make a few observations, such a period could be urged as a reason suggested by what had fallen from the for laying them on, it might reasonably noble marquis. Their lordships must be hoped that the burthen would be light have heard with satisfaction what had ened on the restoratiun of peace. Their been stated by the poble marquis respectlordships were now called upon to consi- ing the heads of the different courts, whose der whether these oppressive duties ought conduct, as might have been expected, to be continued. In his opinion, the had been found liable to no kind of impupublic distress had afforded no excuse for tation whatever. He must also take the these taxes, which were levied on private liberty of remarking, that nothing in the distress-which were often extracted from statement which their lordships had heard, misery itself. Disapproving of all law.taxes, and the matters of complaint in the rewhich were burdens imposed on the ne- ports, in scarcely any respect applied to cessitous, and obstacles to the obtaining the courts of England or Scotland, but of justice, he could not but condemn the were confined almost exclusively to Ireenormous duties levied by law stamps. land. The investigations had been carGreat, however, as the evil was, it had ried on with the greatest impartiality, and been immensely aggravated by the inge- with all practicable diligence; and he benuity of clerks and officers in some of the lieved he spoke the opinion of every man courts to which he had already alluded; who had seen the reports, when he said for when, by an act of the legislature, that the conduct of the commissioners stamp-duties were required on office-co- had been most exemplary. Indeed, every pies of certain papers, these clerks had circumstance mentioned by the noble maravailed themselves of that circumstance quis tended to prove the honourable and to increase their fees. In Ireland the upright manner in which their inquiries fees had on this ground been in general had been prosecuted. Four reports had augmented 25 per cent. There was a already been made, and there were two case mentioned in one of the reports, more in a very forward state. The report where the stamp-duties came to 697.; but on the court of chancery had been rethe charge, including fees, was 4591. : so ferred, after it was drawn up, to the lord that, when the legislature intended that chancellor of Ireland and the master of parties were to be charged only 691., the rolls, by whom the labours of the about seven times that sum was extorted commissioners were approved. With refrom them. Thus property was destroyed gard to the court of exchequer, in which by the means to which it was necessary to the right of appointment to the office of the resort in order to secure it. He was far clerk of the pleas had become a question from imputing any blame to his majesty's of legal dispute, the report was equally government on account of these nefarious approved. A decision had been given in transactions. He had no doubt that mi favour of the Crown by the court of nisters would visit the offenders with just King's-bench in Ireland as to the apseverity, and believed them to be per- pointment of the clerk of the pleas; but fectly disposed to check, and even extir- an appeal had been made to their pate, the evil ; but it would be satisface lordships House, where the final judgtery to the House to know what measures ment must now be given. The report had already been taken towards this end; respecting the courts of error was imand this was certain that it was their portant, and he could assure the noble lordsbips duty to see that the object was marquis that bis majesty's government accomplished. The noble marquis con- would be happy to carry the recommencluded with moving, “ That an humble dations of the commissioners into effect. address be presented to his royal highness He had thought it necessary to make the the Prince Regent, praying that he would few explanations with which he had