and those which restrain the choice of the people. I think that Roman catholics ought, like all the other subjects of his ma jesty, to be enabled to hold places under the crown, and to sit in parliament; but I understand there are some who would consent to a proposition for rendering them accessible to offices, who would not agree to give them seats in parlia ment. Those who entertain this opinion, surely cannot refuse to go into the committee. I understand there are others who, on the contrary, think it advisable that Roman catholics should be excluded from offices in the executive part of government; but that, on the ground of virtual representation, which I have stated, they ought to be admitted to seats in the House of Commons. I own that I think this opinion the most rational of the two; and surely those who entertain it cannot object to the motion I am about to make.

"I have now stated most of the general grounds on which I think the repeal of the laws complained of, advisable; and I shall now very briefly mention a few of the advantages which may be expected to result from such a measure. A great proportion of the last and of the present session has been consumed in considering of the best means of recruiting the army, and of increasing our local and disposable force. Now, without disparaging the modes recommended by my right honourable friend (Mr. Windham) on this bench, or the right honourable 'gentleman opposite, for attaining this desirable object, I will venture to say, that no scheme whatever of parish recruiting, limited service, or militia volunteering, can equal the effect of this measure. All these schemes are tardy and trifling, compared to the prompt and large supply which would be afforded by Ireland, were the laws against the Roman ca tholics repealed. You now receive into your army Irish Roman catholics; but what might not be expected from the zeal and gratitude of a nation famed for warmth of temper and generosity, fondly exulting in a triumph obtained over illibe rality and prejudicé? "All your other supplies would be little rivulets compared to this great ocean of military resource. But you are not merely to consider the number, but also the nature of the circumstances under which you would obtain the recruits. Look at the situation of France, our formidable enemy; is she formidable for her finances, her naval power, Her commerce, or any other resource except her population? It is from the disproportion of our population to hers, that we can have any thing to apprehend. We are weak only in our population. Why, then, do we hesitate to adopt a measure which would afford us so powerful a reinforcement? In this age foreign conquests have been less valued than they were in former times; but if conquests deserved to be ever so much

esteemed, what conquest could equal either the true glory or solid advantage of re-acquiring one-fourth of your popu lation? What prospect can be more consolatory than that of thus adding to your strength that which cannot now be called a part of your strength, but may rather be named a part of your weakness? The protestant ascendancy has been compared to a garrison in Ireland. It is not in our power to add to the strength of this garrison, but I would convert the besicgers themselves into the garrison. How can you suppose that these four millions of men should feel themselves in the situation of the other twelve millions, which form the population of the British empire? They know that they furnish you with recruits, from whom you may with reluctance choose serjeants: they send you officers, but they know they can never rise to the rank of generals. They supply you with sailors, who never can advance to any eminence in their profession. How different would our policy be, how different our situation in a military point of view, were the means I propose adopted! There would be no differences, no discontents; but all the subjects of the empire, enjoying equal rights, would join with one heart and one mind in its defence. I am sanguine in believing, that these equal rights and laws will be granted to the Roman catholics. I am even sanguine enough to believe, that many bad consequences which might be expected to result from a refusal of them, will not follow the rejection of this petition. I rely on the affection and loyalty of the Roman catholics of Ireland; but I would not press them too far, I would not draw the cord too tight. It is surely too much to expect that they will always fight for a constitution in the enefits of which they are not permitted to participate. No pmanent advantage can arise from any measure, except the twhich shall restore them to the full enjoyment of equal rignts with their fellow citizens. In the present situation of Europe, and when the designs of the enemy are considered, Ireland is a place where the active exertions of this country may be required; and this is one of the grounds on which I am anxious that the motion I am about to propose should be acceded to. Whatever may be the fate of the question, I am happy in having had this opportunity of bringing it under the consideration of the House; and I shall detain you no longer, but to move, "That the petition be referred to the consideration of a committee of the whole House."

The motion gave rise to a debate which lasted two days. It was principally supported by Mr. Grattan, Dr. Laurence, Mr. William Smith, Mr. Ponsonby, Mr. Windham, Sir John Newport, Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald, Mr. Dillon, Mr. John Latouche, Mr.

Hutchinson, and Mr. Hawthorne; and opposed by Dr. Duigenan, Sir G. Hill, Mr. Perceval, Sir W. Scott, Mr. H. Addington, Mr. Foster, and Mr. Pitt.

At five in the morning, the House divided on Mr. Fox's motion.

MR. GREY'S MOTION ON THE STATE OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS.

June 20.

THIS day Mr. Grey moved, "That an humble address be presented to his majesty, praying that he will be graciously pleased not to prorogue his parliament until he shall have been enabled to afford to this House more full information with respect both to his majesty's relations with foreign powers, and to his views and prospects in the contest in which his majesty is engaged." After the motion had been opposed by Lord Castlereagh and Mr. Canning, and supported by Mr. Windham and Earl Temple,

Mr. Fox said, he could not reconcile it to his feelings to give a silent vote upon a question so intimately connected as the present with the rights and privileges of parliament, and the policy of the country; he should, however, endeavour to bring what he had to submit to the House, within as short a compass as possible. The first point, he observed, was, that by the three last loans this country had added to the capital of its debt not less than eighty millions of money. This was a matter of grave consideration, considering the former burthens of the country to which this was an addition, notwithstanding the progress of the consolidated fund, and the salutary system of raising war taxes, and providing for so large a portion of our expenditure within the year. With regard to the army of this country, he should touch upon it slightly, because that subject was soon to be discussed at large by an honourable friend of his, who was well qualified for that undertaking (Colonel Craufurd); and if that honourable gentleman had been thought sanguine as to his plan in that object, yet it must be allowed that the right honourable gentleman opposite to him (Mr. Pitt) was also sanguine in his plan, for he had made it one of the great foundations of his attack on the late administration, with part of which he afterwards joined, that they had not sufficiently provided for the permanent

establishment of the army, and he had brought in a bill to supply that defect: that bill had been tried, and without being very sanguine as to the effect of the plan of his ho nourable friend, he might venture to predict, that if it should be tried, it would be as efficient as the bill of the right honourable gentleman for the permanent increase of our military force; indeed, the bill of the right honourable gentleman, coming from a person so extraordinary in talents, reminded him of what was said by Dr. Johnson of the poem of Ossian. Being asked, from what man upon earth but its author, could it be expected? Did he know any other man upon earth capable of writing such a poem? "O yes," said the doctor, "many men, many women, and many children!" He believed this to be the true description of the bill of the right honourable gentleman for the permanent improvement of the army.

Upon the subject of Ireland, the noble lord (Castlereagh) had agreed to much of what had been stated by his honourable friend in the opening of this debate, and he agreed also with them both, that the state of Ireland was good in some respects; but when he used the word good, he used it in the sense to express the idea that Ireland was considerably amended from the condition it had been in: and here he must bear an honest tribute to the merit of Lord Hardwicke, to whom much of the improvement of the condition of the people of that country was owing. This he should have no difficulty in saying, although there were points in the conduct of that noble lord, as lord-lieutenant of Ireland, towards a relation of bis (General Fox) while there, which met his disapprobation. However, he could not help lamenting that Lord Hardwicke, as he understood from pretty well grounded rumour, was not supported by that cordiality and union, in the administration of that country, which was essential to carry into effect any of the best plans of any government. He understood that some part of the system of that noble lord was opposed by another noble person, who had distinguished himself by his opposition to the catholics (Lord Redesdale): much good was not to be expected from any government where perfect har mony did not subsist among all its members. He had had the honour to present to the House a petition on behalf of the catholics of that country, the prayer of which had been rejected by a large majority. He wished to know, whether any thing short of that prayer was intended to be granted to that body of persons, containing almost all the population of that country? He had no hesitation in saying, that it behoved vernment to do all that could be done short of granting the prayer of that petition. He wished the prayer to be granted altogether; but, after the sense of parliament had been so fully

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expressed, he could not expect government to have the same view of the subject. It was not for him who thought the prayer ought to be granted, to point out what other mode should be adopted; but it behoved those who opposed that prayer to look into the case, and devise the best remedy that appeared to them to be applicable to it, for it was not to be expected that the people of that country would be content with every thing remaining exactly in its present condition. He recommended this subject to the most serious attention of government.

He now came to the business of the king's message, and to that which was connected with the speech from the throne, to which he wished the House particularly to attend. The king by that speech told parliament that he had received an offer of negociation from the French government; that, situated as his majesty was, he thought proper to say, that he was engaged in confidential intercourse with a certain great power, meaning the Emperor of Russia; that he thought it right to apprise that monarch of the overtures which had been made by France to his majesty, and that he must consult with him before he could return any answer to France. Now, he would ask, what was the meaning of that communication? He was not now delivering an opinion what the answer of his majesty ought to be. It was natural enough that his majesty should not make any answer to France until he had consulted with the Emperor of Russia, possibly until he had agreed upon a treaty with that monarch; but then it was not so likely a way to negociate with effect for peace, if his majesty had to say to the enemy, "Stay until I can see whether I shall be able to enter into a treaty with another power, for the purpose of our carrying on the war jointly against you." Now, if his majesty's answer to the overture of France for peace was capable of two constructions, it was not wonderful if this was the construction the French put upon it. The question then was, when that period was to come when the House of Commons was to have information upon that subject? When so proper to ask it as when the application was made by the crown for money to carry on the plan, whatever it may be, which refers to that very subject The great and fundamental principle of our constitution was, that the House should demand all necessary explanation of the executive government in these important public concerns, and no time was so proper, because none was likely to be so effectual, as when they were voting money to support the system of government; this was the time when the advice of the House of Commons to the throne was most seasonable, and likely to be most respected. This was one of the