manner should it be laid; is it well to lay the rail on cross-ties; which is the better chair, the cast iron or steel; are the girder rails brought to the attention of railway men to-day as good as, or better than, the old side-bearing rail; and if so, why? As to horses: how are they being fed and cared for in different parts of the country; which are the best horses for street-car purposes, and where can the best horses be obtained, and at what prices; if they are fed upon feed mixed with hay; do they need long hay; do they have hay fed to them continually; how many miles per day are they traveling? Now, all these matters have been discussed; but, as a matter of fact, we are learning every day, and at this time we can explain to each other our different methods or usage in regard to all of these things; and it would be so much pleasanter to hear how much better one road is doing than another. Let us continue just the same as when this organization was first instituted, to take everything into con- . sideration in relation to running street-cars by horses; because that is the regular and general way of running street-cars at the present day. We are not all millionaires; and we do not all have the head bankers of the country to sustain us in our little peccadilloes of theories. I speak for myself, and not for these gentlemen here; and what I said this morning was in the kindliest spirit, only that I got provoked at the way in which the time of the Association was being taken up by electric railway constructors. I am not the most sanguine fellow in the world; but I get led right along, and before I know it, I may be led into this electrical business and lose all I have. [Laughter.] And here is Brother Richardson, who does not give us any advice, and does not even say a word. Mr. Richards, of Boston, is not here any more, and we cannot get anything from him. Nobody is with us any more; none of the old-time speakers; nobody but these outside people, and I have got enough of them. That is the reason I made those remarks this morning. I want to come here; I want to bring my wife with me; I want this to be a ladies' affair [laughter]; but I do not want to come if I do not learn anything.

Mr. Scullin, of St. Louis: For the information of the gentleman, I would suggest that he consult his neighbor, Mr. Owen, of Reading. I am informed by some gentlemen, who are well qualified to judge, that Mr. Owen has been the most successful operator of horse-railroads in the United States; and I believe these gentlemen do not live very far apart.

Mr. Wm. Richardson, of Brooklyn: It strikes me, Mr. Chairman, that a number of the questions that were asked are worth not merely careful study, but are worthy of careful answers. I want to suggest to Mr. Sage that he move the appointment of a committee to which these various questions shall be referred, so that each can be answered in the shape of a report at the next meeting; and allow me to suggest one question to be added, and that is, how can we best prevent "strikes ?"

Mr. Love, of Philadelphia: With your permission, Mr. President, I will reply to our friend from New England. You gentlemen who are gathered here have been street-railway Presiden's for many years; but at your last meeting a gentleman from New Hampshire gave you a description of an eight-wheel car that it would be possible to run on street-railway tracks. When you have your trucks in the centre of the car you must expect more or less oscillation, but when you arrange your trucks one at either end of the car, you can run a car without any such motion. All of the cars that you are running to-day have got a see-saw motion, simply because you have located your gearing in the centre of the car, leaving both ends just like a boy riding on a see-saw. When you take double trucks you have a double motion, just like a universal joint; and in this case one horse will do more work than two horses under the other system.

REMARKS OF MR. WILLIAM BRACKEN RELATIVE TO

COST OF HORSE TRACTION.

Mr. Bracken, of New York: Mr. President, will you allow one who is not a delegate to interrupt you for a moment to ask a question. Yesterday you were kind enough to state the relative cost of cable and horse traction; and among other things you said that it cost twenty-four and two-thirds cents a car per mile to run with horses in Chicago, and something like ten cents per mile with cable. It was gratifying to me to get this information, although it seemed to astonish some of the gentlemen who sat beside me. One of the most important things for those engaged in electric traction is to know the actual cost of horse traction. I have endeavored for the last two years to find out from various gentlemen, who have had years of experience in that line, what it cost them for motive power to run a sixteen foot car, say seventyfive miles a day. One of the leading railroad men in this country,

and I will name him, Mr. Kemble, of Philadelphia, came to New York to confer with Mr. Julien and myself to ascertain the cost of electric traction as compared with horse traction. He stated that in his experience of ten years it had cost about seven dollars and a half a day for a sixteen foot car for motive power. Another gentleman from Philadelphia said that it amounted to six dollars. A gentleman in New York, who is at the head of one of the largest railroads in that city, astonished me by the statement that it costs only four dollars and a half. Allow me to say that this is very contradictory and bewildering; and I hope you will regard my remarks in that light only-that I seek to get some accurate information. It won't do for electric traction people to pretend that they can operate your cars more cheaply than with horses, no matter what that cost may be; and that they can throw in a chromo with the system. On the other hand it won't do for you to hide from them what it costs you to run with horse traction; but I am sure if it costs you six dollars and a half, we can do it for five dollars; and there will be some profit in it for you and some for us. Therefore, my suggestion would be that, among the other information which the committees are to give us, they tell us as to the cost of motive power when the roads are operated by horses. Of course, I know that this cost may vary as to the number of miles covered; but we will take as a standard a sixteen foot car, running seventy-five miles a day.

REMARKS OF MR. GEORGE B. KERPER CONCERNING
"STRIKES."

Mr. Kerper, of Cincinnati : I want at this time to reply to the question of Mr. Richardson as to how to prevent "strikes." I can reply how to successfully put an end to strikes. We had discharged about one hundred men on our road, and the men who remained with the Company were continually threatened. We took an affidavit from every one of the men in our employ. We stated that the men were willing to run and operate the cars, but were intimidated from so doing by the discharged men, and that they considered that their lives were in danger. It was on Sunday that we did this, and on Monday we called at nine o'clock in the morning on one of the Judges at his house and got a personal injunction out against every man who had struck, and they were all served by the sheriff. The men soon found out that

disobedience to this injunction notice meant contempt of Court, and we had no further trouble. The strike came to an end.

REQUEST FOR SUBJECTS FOR REPORTS FOR THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING.

Mr. Littell: I move that the delegates be requested to hand to the members of the Executive Committee subjects for reports to be presented at the next meeting. From the subjects received, the Committee can select what would be best for the Association. It is in the hands of the Executive Committee to name the subjects. If the delegates will suggest what they would like papers upon, we can get at it in a better way.

The President: The Chair is gratified by the suggestion made, and will ask the members of the Association to send to the Executive Committee the title of any subject they wish to have discussed at the meeting one year from now.

DISCUSSION RELATIVE TO THE ADMISSION OF SUPPLY MEN TO ASSOCIATE MEMBERSHIP.

Mr Henry M. Thompson, of Brooklyn: Last year, in Philadelphia, there was presented to the Association a question as to the admission of supply men to membership in this Convention. As I understand it, it was decided then that an amendment to the By Laws should be made and voted upon at this meeting. If that is the case, we want that done before we adjourn. If it is not so, I would like to know exactly where the gentlemen who furnish us with supplies by which we operate our roads stand to-day?

The Secretary: In reply to the gentleman I would say that the subject was referred to the Executive Committee, as will be found on page 110 of the printed report of the proceedings of the last regular meeting.

That proposed amendment was duly presented to the Association; and as the result of discussion thereon, was referred to the Executive Committee. On page 20 of the same report, appear the Minutes of a Special Meeting of the Executive Committee, held at the Continental Hotel, Friday, October 21, 1887, at 9 o'clock, A. M., at which were present, Messrs. Rugg, Frayser, Clegg, Smith, Mosher and the Secretary.

In reference to this subject, the minutes read as follows:

"The proposed amendment to the Constitution and By-Laws having been referred to the Executive Committee, was given extended consideration. It reads as follows:

"Be it Resolved, That the Constitution and By-Laws be amended so as to permit manufacturers and dealers in street-railway supplies to become associate members of the Association, on the payment of the membership fee of twentyfive dollars, and the annual dues assessed active members, it being understood that said associate members shall have no voice in the deliberations of the Association except by general consent, and under no conditions shall they be permitted to vote upon any matter before the Association."

On motion, the following resolution was adopted :

Resolved, That the President be, and he is hereby authorized to issue a ticket to any gentleman not a delegate, upon the recommendation of a delegate, who may desire to attend the annual banquet. The number of tickets is to be limited by the judgment of the President, and the price of each ticket is to be ten dollars."

That, sir, is the action that was taken by the Executive Committee.

Mr. Thompson: Now I would like to ask the gentleman whether the Executive Committee has the right to make an amendment without submitting it to the Association. The By-Laws of this Association are adopted by the Association and not by the Executive Committee. When that resolution was introduced last year it was for the purpose of admitting the gentlemen who furnish the companies with their supplies, to equal privileges with every gentleman here, except a voice and vote in whatever might come before the Association. Now I want to know what right the Executive Committee had to change that entirely and make it something which has never been submitted to, or passed by, the Convention which adopts the Constitution and By-Laws of this Association.

The Secretary: Mr. President-In reply to that, sir, there are one or two answers that may be made, as follows: Under the heading of By-Laws, on page 176, Article II., it reads as follows: "The Executive Committee shall have the entire charge and management of the affairs of the Association." That is one answer. Another answer is, that the question was referred to the Executive Committee; and in lieu of adopting the resolution presented, they adopted another as a substitute, the one that has been read. A third answer to that question is that the entire matter was presented in the Report of the Executive Committee yesterday morning, which report was adopted at this meeting, and thereby became the action of the Association.

Mr. Thompson: I would like to ask if there is any alteration