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- propensities of human nature. Thus Mr. Pitt, Mr. Grey, or others, it wag much he thought it necessary to say; always a leading feature to do away the and he did not think that there was any rotten boroughs, and to vest the right occasion for his going farther. As to of voting in the resident householder. the hon. baronet's proposition, that the He would take the liberty of reading a house had admitted that some reform quotation from the work to which he was necessary, he never understood that had alluded, which was particularly apany such admission had been made. plicable to the point in question. He did not believe that the house would “The species of property which conallow that it had ever made any such “stitutes this qualification has the advanadmission ; and the manner in which « tage of being, open, ostensible, and the hon., baronet's proposition had been "incapable of being disputed. It indireceived, convinced hiin that he was "cates a real residence, and implies a correct in his opinion. It would be '“ stationary interest in the place for really raising the plan of the hon. baronet “ which the vote is given and the repreinto an importance which it did not “sentative chosen. But besides the deserve, to dwell upon it at any greater“ possession of a competent property, of length. The house, he observed, was " which the occupation of a house payready to come to a decision; and all “ing taxes is a sufficient presumption, a that he could say, in addition to the “householder has other qualities which remarks he had already made, would “ ought to recommend him to a favouronly serve to create embarrassment and “able distinction, and particularly to delay, in a matter which was already“ the trust in question. He is necessasufficiently clear.

« rily the master, and probably the Mr. Madocks observed, that the right « father of a family. In the first chahon. gentlemen had, through the course : “racter he has a personal credit and of his speech, assumed that the plan of " respect to maintain: in the second the hon. baronet was that which would he has given hostages to society. He be insisted upon, and ultimately adopted “is the natural guardian and virtual rein every particular, provided the house “ presentative, not only of his family and agreed to enter at all into the conside- « servants, but of all those who depend ration of the subject. The right hon. “'upon him for support, protection, or gentleman had no title to make this “ employment. Such a station deserves assumption, although he admitted that “ confidence, and should be made re the great leading points of the plan of “ spectable, that all men may be prompthe hon. baronet ought to be preserved. “ted and encouraged to rise to it. The The real question was, whether the “ relations and duties that belong to it country was to be annused with the pre- « are antecedent to positive institutions tence of a representation, or whether' " and constitute at once the basis and it was at length to have a real and effi- “ security of civil society !" cient one. The main point of the plan The right hon. gentleman opposite had was the vesting of franchises in the resi given no answer to his hon. friend; nor dent householders. A better regulation was the plan, if properly understood, than this could not be' well conceived. liable to the objections which he had It had been treated in a distinguished stated. With respect to property which work lately published, which those who an hon. gentleman below had considered desired to gain information on this sub- as the basis of the representation, no ject -could not peruse with too much one could doubt that property was the attention, as it contained the most solid true basis; and it was because property and satisfactory reasons for the adoption was not the basis of representation at of such a regulation. It had been the present, that he wished it to be altered. invariable practice in every reign from What right had Old Sarum, and Midthe oime of Edward the First to that of hurst, and Gatton to send representatives Charles the Second, to alter the state of to parliament upon that principle? The the representation with respect, to bo- notion of universal suffrage he held to be roughs. These alterations proceeded absurd. But surely it was even more upon the variations which took place absurd, and contrary to the principles of among the towns, some rising into opu- the constitution, to give the right, lence, others sinking into insignificance; sending members to parliament to an old and in all the plans of reform that had wall, or to 25 stones in a field. The bill, been proposed to the house, whether by which had lately passed in that house

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(Mr. Curwen's) had only made matters Sir R. Williams was averse from the worse, by throwing a monopoly of the imputing of bad motives to any one, and market for seats into the hands of the certainly he imputed none to the hon. treasury. These partial remedies could baronet. But he doubted whether he be of no use where the system was funda- might not be influenced by those whose mentally wrong. The resolution of 1779, views might be less pure, One of the had often been appealed to in vain; and greatest objections which he had to the where then was the use of new enact- proceedings of the hon. baronet was. ments, the intended effect of which the that he did not propose to carry on his system necessarily prevented? There plan of reform in that house, but endeawas another point to which he was desi- voured to effect his object by means from rous of calling the attention of the house, without.. as he had been misrepresented respecting Sir James Hall observed, that the it, or, at least, as inferences had been hon. baronet, though often accused of drawn from it which were not warranted obscurity, was now plain and explicit, by the facts. He alluded to the repre- He had stated, in pretty strong terms, sentation which he had made respecting that the house did not deserve the conthe bargain with the treasury for the fidence of the country and yet he came borough of Cashel. That part of the forward in that very house with his plan charge which stated, that Lord Castle- of reform. The motives of the hon, reagh suggested to Mr. Dick the pro- baronet might be good, but his conduct, priety of resigning his seat if he could he thought, extremely dangerous. He not vote in favour of the Duke of York, could not assent to the motion of the had been denied. But it ought to be hon. baronet; but he highly compliobserved, that the denial was confined mented Col. Wardle, who had so well to this and the inference was, that the conducted himself in adversity. He rest of the charge, which was by far the hoped he would be enabled to bear most important, was positively true. prosperity with equal magnanimity, and He was ready to prove that 5000l. had not suffer his brain to be turned by the been paid to the treasury for the seat, intoxicating influence of three times three. and that Mr. Dick had been induced to Mr. Hutchinson thought that the hon. pacate upon a difference arising between baronet had not, on the present occahim and the ministry, as to his vote on sion, been kindly treated. The question the question respecting the conduct of the was most important, and it was not new; Duke of York. This was the important it had often been before the house, and part of the charge which no one had it was impossible to conceive a speech attempted to deny. Under all these more constitutional in the manner, or circumstances there was the strongest more calculated to conciliate and to ground for giving a pledge to the nation, sooth, than that which had been delithat the house would take the subject vered by the hon. baronet: If he was into consideration. The plan now not authorized to bring forward the suboffered corresponded in its great and ject, who could be so ? Few had a leading features with those of Mr. Pitt greater stake than he had in the country and Mr. Grey, who were sometimes sup- --few had more enlightened minds, or ported by great divisions, and once the were better qualified to judge of this or question was lost only by a majority of any other subject. How the honourable 20 or 25. In the year 1784 the King baronet behind (Sir R. Williams) could had in his speech recommended the sub- have imagined that the hon. baronet ject to the consideration of the house. near him did not wish to effect his object It had been proposed by Mr. Pitt, that in that house but out of it, he was at a members should be returned for Bir-loss to conceive, for the whole of what mingham, Leeds, Manchester, &c. in- was proposed must depend upon what stead of the close boroughs, that Mary- should be done in that house. He was le-bone, Pancras, &c. should have the anxious that the motives of the vote right of returning members, and that the which he should give to night should right of voting should be extended to not be misrepresented. He was aware the copy-holders. He gave his most of the difficulty of the question--he was hearty concurrence to the motion of his aware of its importance--he was sensible hon. friend, and thought that to give the that he ran the risk of exposing himself. pledge required, would only be doing in some quarters to suspicion--in others, plastice to the memory of our ancestops. perhaps, to ignominy. In a constitu


tion which afforded so many blessings, Mr. Barham was averse from the we were naturally jealous of every pro- pledge, because he was not convinced posed alteration, and the attempt was that the generality of the people were in danger of being condemned whether anxious for a reform. But at the same it proceeded from the purest patriotism time, he agreed that the hon. baronet or a desire to overturn our establish- bad been unkindly treated. No speech ments. These apprehensions would was ever more distinguished for its canappear even more excusable when we dour and moderation, or less calculated . looked at the fate of other nations. But to irritate the passions, than that of the much as he valued public opinion, and hon. baronet. much as he dreaded his being exposed Sir T. Turton asked, whether the conto misapprehension, he would not de- stitution in ancient times depended so serve a seat in that house if he were to much upon the borough system? In shrink from declaring what was the full this respect it might be purified. In conviction of his mind, that there was a ancient times the representation was a crying necessity for reform. He did representation of property. These bonot pledge himself to any particular roughs were once places of great wealth plan, but he was ready to declare that and property, and upon that ground there was a necessity for reformation- sent members to parliament. But cirand he would add, a speedy reforma- cumstances being altered, the represention. To prove this, he might advert to tation ought to be varied accordingly. many decisions of this eventful session. In former times, none were free except Many questions would have been decided freeholders; but now copyholders were in a different manner, if the house had equally free and secure, and might therebeen otherwise constituted. He parti- fore partake of the freeholders' privileges. cularly mentioned the rejection of the As to the personal reflections thrown question of Irish tithes-the fate of Mr. out against the hon. baronet, any one Curwen's bill--the attempt to legislate conscious of the purity of his motives respecting the Irish reyenue, on the might easily despise these; and in truth, ground of irretrievable corruption, &c. it was always a proof of a bad cause on &c. If the house had been otherwise the side of those who resorted to such constituted, it would have been impos- means of defence. As to the particular sible so long to have resisted the just plan of the hon. baronet, he saw very claims of Ireland. The gentlemen op- great objections to it in many points of posite surely ought not to be surprised view. But he understood the hon. bathat others besides the hon. baronet ronet to require no more than a pledge were anxious for reform, when the house from the house, that it would consider had been daringly insulted by the avowal the subject. He was not over fond of within its walls, that seats were bought pledges, but concurring in the principle, and sold.

he should vote for it if pushed to a diMr. Western said, he should give his vision. The gentlemen opposite were assent to the motion of the hon. baronet. · averse to any consideration of the subBut he wished to be understood by no ject; they would have nothing reformed, means to pledge himself to support the and resembled Squire Western in Tom particular plan suggested by the hon, Jones, who, in one of his disputes with moyer in the course of his speech. He his sister, exclaimed, “ that he would had been a constant friend to parlia- “ be d d if he went to church if the mentary reforın. He voted for the mo- « liturgy was amended.' tion which was brought forward in the Mr. H. Pracey declared himself friendyear 179S upon the subject, and againly to the question of reform, and would in 1797, and he certainly was of opinion, vote for entertaining it without pledging that a reform in the representation was himself to the particular plan. The not less necessary at the present mo- right hon. gentleman opposite said, that ment than it was at that period; and the generality of the people were not he was satisfied the times were more fa- disposed for reform. How did the right vourable to the consideration of such a hon. gentleman ascertain this? The measure than at the periods alluded to. people in their public meetings had, from He thought it essentially necessary to one end of the kingdom to the other, give an assurance to the public, that the expressed themselves in favour of rehouse would take the question into con- form; and how could their sentiments sideration early in the ensuing session. be collected except in their public meets angs? It had also been said, that the The papers were ordered to be repeople scarcely ever complained of the turned. decisions of that house. How could Sir. T. Turton commented on that that be known? There might be many part of the report of the committee on decisions with which the nation was the ABUSES OF EAST INDIA PATRONAGE highly displeased, though its sentiments that recommended the recal of all such were not openly expressed. The deci- officers in the company's service whose sion in the case of the Duke of York offices had been purchased; this he might have been passed over in this thought to be a measure of reprehensi, manner, had it not been for some pecu- ble severity, and acting rigorously and liar circumstances in that case which cruelly against a number of innocent roused the people to a loud and almost' young men, who went out at an age universal declaration of their disappro- when it was impossible for them to be bation. The people had only to be- guilty of the offence for which they were come familiar with reform to see its now to be punished, by an order that propriety, and even necessity. It was would eventually be productive of their only by connecting it with the French ruin, and blast all their hopes in life. revolution, with “ no popery," &c. that He said that he trusted that that part of it had for a time been rendered unpo- the report. would not be acted upon ; pular. All this, however, was now over. and if it was not, he would be willing The people would judge coolly and tem- to withdraw his motion, but not otherperately without allowing themselves to wise. · He then moved — " That the be distracted by such artifices as these. 6 house should resolve that that house He did not at all pledge himself to the " did not concur in the report of the support of the plan now proposed; but « committee appointed tu inquire into as nothing more was required by this “the abuse of East India patronage, as resolution than that the house should « far as related to the immediate necestake the subject into consideration early “sity of recalling, and declaring incain the next session, he would certainly “pable of holding any future situations, give his voice in its fayour.


6 those persons, who, though either inThe gallery was then cleared for a “ nocent or ignorant of the means by division, when the numbers on Sir F. " which their situations were procured, Burdett's motion were-Ayes 15—Noes “ would be thus visited by a measure of 74-Majority against the inotion 59. “ severity equally repugnant to British

Sir C. Bunbury moved, that the house “justice and the rights of humanity." should go into a committee on the ani Mr. Dundas said, that however wilmal cruelty prevention bill, when stran- ling the court of directors must be at all gers were again excluded, and another times to attend with respect to any division took place: previous to the se- communication from that house, still cond division, Mr. Windham moved as that house had not influenced the resoan amendment that the bill be commit- lution of the court alluded to. In order ted for this day three months.

to prove that the young men had had On the question that the house should sufficient notice, he read an advertisea, now go into committee on the said bill, ment of the court in 1806, giving dne the numbers were-Ayes 27-Noes 37 notification of the consequences result-Majority against the bill 10.

ing from the corrupt practices now proThe bill is, of course, thrown out.- hibited. He concluded with moving the Adjourned to Monday.

previous question. Monday, June 19.

Mr. Bankes spoke in favour of the Mr. Wilberforce presented a petition report of the committee, and thought from the Rev. Mr. Madan, vindicating that the house should pause before they hiinself from the aspersions thrown on interfered with the court of directors. his character by the petition of the Rev. Mr. Windham said, that he could not T. Humphrey, presented a few days ago. help adverting to that sort of outrageous -Ordered to lie on the table.

virtue, that, while it laid claim to imSir T. Turton presented a petition maculate purity for itself, went beyond from Mrs. Mary Ann Clarke, praying all bounds in venting its vengeance that the papers belonging to her, which against the alleged criminality of others. came into the possession of the house This was too much the principle in the through the means of Mr. Nichols, of present case. In this way of over-doing Hampstead, should be restored to her. justice, gentlemen seemed to argue in


the same way the great King of Prussia how William Beauchamp Hill, a man did ; who, when a soldier in a fresh who had been convicted of taking bribes, breeze bád his hat blown off, had the was defended; and yet, after this consoldier severely punished for this acci- duct of their's, they must now, from a dent: and it certainly was observable desire of inculcating pure and rigid moafterwards, that whether the man was rality, ruin a number of innocent young innocent or not, fewer hats fell off after- men, who had committed no crime, wards. He, however, was not for at... and whose parents or friends might have guing in this manner in order to justify given the money for their appointment, the punishing the innocent, which he The Attorney General thought this took to be impossible. Every means question ought to be left altogether to should be tried to get at the end desired, the court of directors, and that the before they should adopt so harsh and house should not interfere with their unjust a mode as was suggested by the functions. report of the committee.

Mr. P. Moore deprecated the recalMr. Wallace defended the report of ling of the young men in India, who the committee, and thought the plan are fighting their country's battles in that proposed the most effectual remedy to country. check the growth of the evil. : Mr. Lushington voted for the previous

Mr. Stephen was of opinion that the question. committee went farther than they need Sir T. Turton said, all questions rehave gone, in recommending the propo- specting India of this kind, are by misition they had done; the young men uisters enveloped in the previous quest who would be sufferers in consequence tion. of such a proposition being carried into The house then divided--For the preeffect, had not been guilty of the offence vious question, 77–Against it, 35.7 they wished to punish.

The resolution was of course lost. Mr. Grant was convinced that the Mr. Wurdle rose to make his promised practice which the court of directors moțion on the subject of PUBLIC ECONO wished to suppress, had a tendency to my. He said, he hoped he should be overturn the whole efficiency of the East indulged in the observations which he India establishment. If situations were was about to make, as he had been sp allowed to be obtained by corrupt means, particularly called forward. It had been all the confidence existing between the represented that he had talked widely of company and the servants in India would the burthens of the country, and the be overthrown. Therefore the only re- grievances from which it might be reliemedy which could be adopted was to ved. He thought it but justice to himstrike at the root of the evil at once, by self now to state that which he had be removing all persons who got into places fore stated on the subject; he had said, under the company by corrupt means that if the house of Commons was re

-Mr. Perceval asked, if the house adop- formed, and placed upon the original ted the resolution as it then stood, whe- footing upon which the constitution inther it could leave the question in an tended it should stand, the amount of unprejudiced state? Were it fit all at the income tax might be saved to the once to declare, that the directors, had country. If gentlemen in that house acted contrary to justice and humanity! thought proper to reprehend him for If the resolution passed, it would then such language, he need only refer them be necessary to legislate for the direc- to the terms in which a great statesman, tors, to make bye-laws for them, and whom they were in the habit of looking to take all their power qut of their up to with, reverence, had expressed hands.

himself on this subject in 1802. In that Sir S. Romilly considered this as a year Mr. Pitt, speaking on a reforin in case of great injustice, and he was ra- parliament, said, “ that if the house of ther surprised to hear such austere sen- Commons had been always steady to the tinents of justice fall froin gentlemen interests of their constituents, then - no on the other side of the house, which such burthens us now existed would be were so inconsistent with the doctrines suffered by the country." Now the lanthat had been promulgated by them du- guage which he (Mr. Wardle) had used, ring the present session. Gentlemen was by no means equally strong with Would recollect how the secretary of this. It had been made a matter of stgie defended his corrupt conduct, and public accusation against him, that he

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