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320 CONG.....30 Sess.

Special Session-Committee to Procure Evidence.


• chairman of the Committee of the Whole, or the I know Governor Ramsay well. I formerly quired through a committee of Senators. It ought • chairman of a Select Committee of either House served with him in the other House. Whether to be acquired through a committee of strangers; 'shall be empowered to administer oaths or af he be guilty or not I am not prepared to say, hav- and even if the House of Representatives sent its • firmations to witnesses in any case under their | ing had no connection with this matter; but while own committee, it ought to send it as a prosecu'examination.” The next is an act to extend serving with him in the other House I regarded ting committee with a view to an impeachment. the provisions of that act. It provides “that the him as an honorable man. I hope and trust it I shall decidedly oppose the raising of the commit• chairman of any standing committee, either of may turn out that he has remained so. But if he tee of three Senators.

the House of Representatives or of the Senate be an honorable man, he asks this examination, Mr. MASON. I move that the further con• of the United States, shall be empowered to ad and it is due from the Senate, or any public body | sideration of the subject be postponed until to• minister oaths or affirmations to witnesses in any having the power, to make the examination morrow. case under their examination, and any person promptly and speedily, that it shall be made.

The motion was agreed to. who shall be guilty of perjury before such com Why hold him up, I say, a long year, and more

EXECUTIVE BUSINESS. mittee, shall be liable to the pains and penalties than a year, to public scorn, ridicule, and the de‘prescribed for the punishment of the crime of nunciations of the papers all over the country,

On motion by Mr. MASON, the Senate proI willful and corrupt perjury.' So that the power when we have the power to prepare the way for

ceeded to the consideration of Executive business; is expressly confined to the Presiding Officers of his punishment or relieve him from suspicion?

and after some time spent therein, the doors were the two Houses, and the chairmen of committees. To obviate the difficulty seggested by the Sen- ! reopened. Mr. TOUCEY. I am not satisfied to vote for ator from Virginia, who believes that there is some

Nr. BORLAND moved that the Senate adjourn; this delegation of power by a committee. I am doubt about the authority of the delegate of a

which was not agreed to. not satisfied that the delegate of the committee committee to administer oaths, or the punishment

ADJOURNMENT OVER. would have any power whatever to compel the which would follow in the event of a violation of attendance of witnesses. I am not satisfied that the oaths, I will move to amend the resolution so

Mr. SEWARD moved that when the Senate if the oath was administered and violated, that the as to make it read that a committee of three shall adjourn, it be to meet on Monday next. party could be indicted for perjury. And if a be appointed.

Mr. HOUSTON. I hope, Mr. President, that witness were lo refuse to answer an inquiry of The PRESIDING OFFICER. An amend that will not be done. I am satisfied that the the delegate, I do not think there would be any ment is already pending for that purpose, offered

effect of that would be, that when we assemble power to commit him for his refusal to answer. by the Senator from Mississippi.

on Monday there will not be a quorum here. I If, therefore, I were in favor of committees sitting Mr. PETTIT. I was not aware of that. I

shall have to ask the ygas and nays on the motion. during the recess of Congress, I should still be will say one word in reference to it. If the Sen

The yeas and nays were not ordered. opposed, for the reason that I have suggested, to

Mr. HOUSTON. I will merely suggest, before ate appoint such a committee, there can be no a committee organized in this manner. doubl of the authority of that committee to admin

the question is put, that if we adjourn over until But, sir, it is made the duty of the President of ister the oaths, to progress with the investigation, Monday, and then find ourselves here without a the United States to see that the laws are faithfully to do justice to the party accused, and to do jus- quorum, we can then only adjourn from day to executed, and treaties are the supreme laws of the tice to the country. It is idle to talk about the day, and shall consequently have to sit the re.. land. It is therefore his duty, under the Consti miserable paltry sum which it will cost. Suppose mainder of the year, tution, to make the inquiry, and there is a bu you should pay the per diem and mileage of three

Mr. MASON. If the business before the Senreau of the Executive department, to which that members of Congress; suppose you should pay

ate is to be acted on, it is necessary that we should inquiry properly belongs. I am not satisfied either the mileage to Minnesota or elsewhere in the

remain here until it is finished. We have now that there would be any evil arising from the de- country, wherever it shall be necessary, and the

but a bare quorum, and many gentlemen have lay. We shall not be here until the next session regular per diem during this vacation, what great

told me that they are obliged to leave the city. I of Congress to take advantage of any information sum would it be at last ? Sir, is it to be weighed

am not one of those who will leave. Although it which the committee may obtain. The next ses in the balance at all with the administration of is a very great inconvenience to me to remain sion will be the long one, and if this is an investi- | public justice, with the investigation of charges of here, I submit to it, and I intend to sit here from

day to day until tive departments shall neglect to make the investi

the of an gation, we shall then have the power in season honorable man, which is put in jeopardy in this dent, that I do not see anything to be gained by for any action to make the inquiries, before we, manner? It ought not for one moment. 'I hope, | adjourning over until Monday. We are certainly in this body, or the members of the other House, to put the question beyond any doubt as to ihe

not so overburdened with business that we need could act upon any information which might be authority to administer the oaths, and their bind to sit more than two days, and I think we had obtained by this mode of investigation which is | ing effect, that a committee of three will be raised.

better finish it this week. I agree with my friends proposed. I hope, therefore, the whole inquiry | I believe it will be better to intrust the power to

over the way, that if we adjourn until Monday will be suspended until we meet again. such a committee than to one person. It is a large

we shall never get a quorum again. Mr. PETTIT. It seems to me that it is due power to delegate to one man, I grant. Let there Mr. CHASE. I will remark that to-morrow alike to the Senate and to the accused, Governor ihen be a committee of three appointed. I insist, I is Good Friday, and I think respect enough is Ramsay, that this investigation should go on at at any rate, that the investigation shall go on.

due to the wishes of those Senators who desire to the earliest day. It is all true that it may go on The honorable Senator from Wisconsin having keep that day to induce the Senate to adjourn at the next session, which will be the long session; been the mover of the resolution, would, in all over. I will therefore suggest to my friend from but there will be nothing done during the first probability, if the resolution as he introduced it || New York to agree to a compromise, and modify months in the winter, and laboring in the summer should pass, be detailed by the Committee on In his motion so as to adjourn over until Saturday will be rather an unpleasant and wearisome un dian Affairs to make the investigation; and I take

instead of Monday. dertaking, besides the difficulty of dragging wit great pleasure in saying, that having known that

Mr. BADGERIt seems that we have got the desses from Minnesota here to give their testi- I gentleman since our early youth, having long || Senator from Ohio in favor of a compromise at mony, when two or three men might be sent there since formed an acquaintance, I might well say last. (Laughter.] for the purpose of taking the testimony. If Gov from boyhood, I take pleasure in saying that I do Mr. SEWARD. If the honorable Senator from ernor Ramsay is innocent, as I trust it may turn not believe such a duty could be confided to more Ohio goes for a compromise, I believe I must give out he is—and I do not pretend to speak on that faithful, efficient, or honest hands. I trust, how up too. I accept his proposition, and will modify point at all—as an honorable man I ask for him ever, the resolution will be so amended as to ap my motion so that when we adjourn it be to meet that the Senate shall take the most prompt and point a committee of three, in order that there may on Saturday, at twelve o'clock: efficient means for having the charges investigated. be no doubt about the power.

Mr. BORLAND. I move that the Senate now If he be innocent, and has been falsely charged, Mr. BUTLER. If'we are to go on with the adjourn. why continue to have him held up to the gaze of investigation proposed by the honorable Senator The question being then taken, upon a division the world for a year as a villain and that of the from Wisconsin, and which seems to be insisted there were-ayes 10, noes 16; so the Senate reworst kind ? He is demanding the investigation. upon by the Senator from Indiana, it does seem fused to adjourn. It is due to him that he should have it at our to me that three Senators are the very last persons Mr. BORLAND. Although the Senate has hands. Sir, there can be no difficulty in detailing | who ought to be employed to make it, because refused to adjourn, I think it is pretty clear that one member of that committee or the whole of Governor Ramsay-about whom I know nothing we can do no other business; for there is not a them for the investigation.

-is amenable to the Federal Government for his | quorum present. Mr. CHASE. The Senator from Indiana has acts, and he must be amenable through the ordi Mr. SEWARD. I hope the question will be said that Governor Ramsay has demanded an in nary mode in which all public functionaries are put on my motion. vestigation. Has he addressed any communica- | amenable, that is by impeachment from the House Mr. BÓRLAND. I do not believe that is in tion to that effect?

of Representatives. And, sir, in that point of | order when there is no quorum; but I will ask the Mr. PETTIT. He has not addressed any view we are the judges; and are the judges of the yeas and nays upon it, at any rate. communication to me.

accused to send out their own committee to col The yeas and nays were not ordered. Mr. CHASE. Has he addressed any commu lect testimony? That would be, in a fair contem The question being then put on the motion that nication to the Senate?

plation of our duties, a paradox. I do not know when the Senate adjourn it be to meet on SaturMr. PETTIT. I have not seen any. I took what use we could make of the information if we day next, on a division there were-ayes 17, noes the word of the Senator for the statement. It had it. Could we impeach the accused ? All we 9; no quorum voting. seems to me that we ought to have the investiga- could do would be to acquit him. If it became Mr. BRIGHT then moved that the Senate adtion so as to settle the question whether he is necessary for us to decide upon his guilt, this journ; which was not agreed to. guilty or not. If he is innocent he ought to have would be an improper mode of proceeding. I Mr. PETTIT. I move that when the Senate it on his own account; and we ought to have it if make this suggestion, therefore, that if any inform- adjourn it be to meet at twelve o'clock on Monday he is guilty.

ation is to be acquired, it ought not to be ac- | next.

32p CONG.....30 Sess.

Special Session-Adjournment Over.





Mi. BORLAND. I will suggest that that mo of the whole business of the session so as to ad could get through with all the nominations the tion is not in order unless there is a quorum pres journ to-morrow, it would afford me very great President would send to us in this week; and we

pleasure. I am exceedingly anxious for ad could let the treaties rest until the next session. The PRESIDING OFFICER, (Mr. Cooper journment-no one is more so; but gentlemen Mr. BADGER. I will suggest to the honorin the chair.) In the opinion of the Chair the should remember what is the condition of the pub- able Senator from Virginia (Mr. Mason) that we motion is in order.

lic business. We know that the Executive expects shall accomplish nothing in the world by meeting Mr. HUNTER. I hope my friend from In during the next week to send in further communi. to-morrow. No business can be done. I scarcely diana will not press that motion that we shall cations, which will require our action.

ever absent myself from my place; but I shall adjourn over unti! Monday; for I think we can Mr. FISH, (in his seat.) How do we know not be here, for one, and he may depend upon it employ our time here upon nominations and trea that?

that there will be no quorum. ties.

Mr. CHASE. I will inform the gentleman that The question being then taken on the motion of Mr. PETTIT. At the request of my friend I have heard it stated by Senators who are pre Mr. Chase, on a division there were-ayes 20, from Virginia, I withdraw the motion.

sumed to know. I thought it was well known. noes 7; no quorum voting. Mr. CHASE. I think we have no such busi At all events, Mr. President, this is an Executive Mr. MASON then moved that the Senate adness before us as to require us to sit to-morrow, session. It is not usual, at sessions of this char- | journ; which was not agreed to. at any rate. All that remains is nominations, acter, to adjourn until some intimation is received Mr. PETTIT. ( now renew the motion that which can be dispatched without delay, when from the Executive mat he has no further com when the Senate adjourns it be to meet on Monday they shall be sent in, judging from the unanimity munication to make. No such intimation is in next at twelve o'clock. which has prevailed in the consideration of our the possession of any Senator; but, on the con The question being taken, on a division there business thus far.

trary, the Executive has intimated his intention were-ayes 19, noes 8; no quorum voting. Mr. HOUSTON. Some new question may of transmitting further communications to us. If, Mr. HOUSTON. I wish to ask whether it is spring up:

then, there is business which will require us to be according to the rules for a member to vote on Mr. CHASE. If we are determined to go here next week, why refuse to adjourn over? both sides of the same question? through with our business we can do so. All that Shall we expedite the public business by coming The PRESIDING OFFICER. No, sir; it is is before us could be finished to-day, if necessary. here? I think not. We cannot certainly transBut what would be the necessity for that? We act all the public business that is before us in two Mr. HOUSTON. Well, sir, that has been know that there are communications yet to be days; for we have these nominations yet to come. done here; but there did not appear to be a quomade by the Executive, which we shall not re We then accomplish nothing by coming here, in rum after all, so I will let that pass. I will now ceive until next week, and which prevent our ad the way of expediting the public business, but we move that when we adjourn it be to meet on journing. We cannot with propriety adjourn until merely embarrass those Senators who have en Saturday; and in making that motion I desire to we receive an intimation from the President that

gagements for their constituents at the other end say that there is no probability that we shall finish he has no further communications of an Executive of the avenue, and we shall also embarrass those the business of this session until the middle of character to send to us. Why not, then, adjourn Senators who, in consequence of the character of next week, or perhaps later than that; but it seems over until Monday! I can see no reason why we the day, may not wish to attend here to-morrow. to me that by Thursday or Friday of next week should not do so; and I therefore renew the motion Under these circumstances, I hope the honorable we shall be able to get ihrough with our business. that when we adjourn it be to meet on Monday Senator from Texas will withdraw all opposition | We are called together by the Executive to attend

to adjourning over. I would go as far as he to important public business, and I trust that SenMr. HUNTER. I will say that if we adjourn would to expedite the business of the Senate and ators will not absent themselves so as to leave us to-day to meet on Monday next, the result will be to bring about an early adjournment; but I can

without a quorum. that we shall have to sit all next week, and per not see that our meeting here to-morrow would Mr. BADGER, (in his seat.) I am afraid they haps the week after. It is very doubtful whether tend, in the slightest degree, to produce that result. will. we should have a quorum.

The gentleman says we shall not have a quorum Mr. HOUSTON. Well, sir, I am afraid they Mr. BADGER. Mr. President, I have been we adjourn over; but, sir, I cannot believe that I will; but at the same time I hope they will noi. here every day from the beginning to the end of any Senator would absent himself, while the pub- | If we shall be under the necessity of remaining our sitting; but while I am willing to come here, I lic business requires his presence here, without here until the middle of next week, there will be am not willing to be dragged here upon days when some good reason.

nothing gained by sitting to-morrow, since, for I do not feel inclined to come, and when it is very Mr. HOUSTON. I am sorry, Mr. President, various reasons, some of which have been adverted evident there will be no quorum here.

that I cannot agree with what my friend has said to, it is obviously the sense of nearly the whole Mr. HOUSTON. I have not the least disposi- || in relation to the transaction of business at the body to adjourn over until Monday. I wish, tion in the world to embarrass gentlemen who Departments. If the object is to aid the President therefore, to suggest to those Senators who resist have different views from my own with regard to in making his nominations, or to aid the Depart this proposition, and who are very desirous of this matter. I am perfectly willing to sit here ments, we ought to sit here day and night, so as transacting our public business as fast as possible, until we get through with every particle of the to give them an opportunity to do something. If that it can hardly be expected that we should fabusiness before us. I am even willing to listen the Senate adjourns over they will not be able to cilitate the transaction of public business by a to the debates that may incidentally grow up on do a single thing; and it is in mercy to them that policy which leads us to resist the will of nearly various topics; but I will repeat what I said before, I want to sit. It would be better if we should sit ihe whole body. On this ground I have given that if we adjourn over until Monday, there will day and night, because that would relieve them in way to the extent of allowing them to-morrow, not be a quorum in the body for the transaction of some degree, from importunity, and give them a and I hope they will consent to sit on Saturday. business. I do not care about making sixteen dol chance to do something. I want to give them a I submit that motion, that when we adjourn it be lars and rendering no service for it; I would much little rest, so as to enable them to come to some to meet on Saturday. rather be on my way home. It seems to me, Mr. conclusion; but if Senators are bent on this thing Mr. PETTIT. I hope we will either adjourn President that we are trifling with our duties here, if it is the general wish that the Senale shall be to meet to-morrow or adjourn over until Monday. when we are pretending to be in session, and yet turned loose upon the Departments to-morrow-I Let us adjourn over for iwo days or none. adjourn over iwo or three days at a time. There do not know as it will avail much for me to op Mr. MASON. I have resisted until I find it is is nothing in that which I can see that is very pose it. Perhaps they would better have one day useless to resist any longer, and although I am beneficial to the country, or creditable to ourselves. ihan take to-morrow and Saturday both, and I am still of the opinion that we ought only to adjourn I wish to test the sense of the Senate on this sub somewhat inclined to yield to the suggestion of from day to day, I will not resist the will of the ject; and it gives me great pleasure that there is the Senator from Ohio, and consent to the Sen Senate to adjourn over until Saturday: not a quorum present on this occasion, so that no ate's adjourning over till Saturday; and then, if The question being then taken on the motion of motion can be entertained except a motion to ad any gentlemen wish to keep Good Friday, they Mr. Houston, on a division there were-ayes 21, journ.

can have an opportunity. I believe I will not ob noes 2; no quorum voting. Mr. BRIGHT. Mr. President, it is manifest ject to that, but I cannot give them more than one Mr. BUTLER. There are some gentlemen to me that it would expedite business to adjourn day.

who did not vote, and perhaps if they should all over until Saturday. The suggestion is made Mr. CHASE. I will modify my motion, then, vote there would be a quorum. that we shall have no quorum until some business so as to adjourn until Saturday instead of Mon

The PRESIDING OFFICER. There are not is transacted at the other end of the avenue. Why day.

enough to make a quorum. have we no quorum? It is because gentlemen feel Mr. MASON. Mr. President, I would agree

Mr. BRIGHT. I move that the absentees be compelled to go to the other end of the avenue to to this arrangement which the Senator proposes,

sent for. We have been sitting here at work all attend to important business. If the Senate should if I were not convinced from our experience yes day, and it is no more than right that those memadjourn over, we can have an opportunity to-mor terday and to-day that we shall not be able to get bers who are absent should be requested to attend. row to attend to the pressing business which has through the public business unless we sit from The PRESIDING OFFICER. It is moved accumulated upon our hands, and thus we could day to day. The business which we have before that the Sergeant-at-Arms be directed to request enable the Executive to prepare business for us us of an Executive character occupies very little of the attendance of absent members. Are Senators to dispose of here on Saturday. I think that for our time; but it is principally taken upin debating ready for the question on that motion? this reason it would really be a saving of time if subjects that have run over from the last session;

Mr. WELLER. I move that the Senate now we should adjourn from now until Saturday at thai was the case yesterday, and it has been the adjourn. twelve o'clock. case again to-day, and now we are told that we

The motion was not agreed to. Mr. CHASE. I wish to say, in relation to the cannot get through until next week. I shall be Mr. PETTIT. I withdrew one motion which remarks which have fallen from the Senator from obliged to resort to all parliamentary means to I made in order to gratify my colleague and other Texas, (Mr. Houston,) that no one is more ready prevent the motion of the Senator from Ohio from gentlemen, and I hope he will withdraw that. than I am to sit here and dispatch the business being adopted.

Mr. BRIGHT. Certainly; I withdraw it. with which we are intrusted. If we could dispose Mr. BUTLER. I will answer for it that we Mr. PETTIT. I now move that when the

320 Cong....30 Sess.

Special Session-Adjournment Over.


Senate adjourns it adjourn to meet on Monday Mr. MASON. The Senate has jusi made an Mr. PETTIT. I will gratify the Senator from next.

order to send for absent members. In this state Texas by giving some reasons. The reason which Mr. WELLER. I call for a division on that of business, a motion to adjourn is in order, but influences me is this: I am satisfied that we shall question.

not a motion to adjourn until a future day. do no business to any valuable purpose, either 10The PRESIDING OFFICER. It is perfectly The PRESIDING OFFICER. In the opinion morrow or the next day. To-morrow is what is idle to put the question when it is known that of the Chair a motion to adjourn to a future day called Good Friday. I never knew a good Frithere is not a quorum present.

is in order. The motion was made, and the ques- day yet, and I hope that to-morrow will be a good Mr. PETTIT. Perhaps there is a quorum tion has not been put.

one at any rate. li was always" hangman's day now.

Mr. HOUSTON, The Senate can only ad with me. In addition to ihat, many Senators The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair | journ from day to day without a quorum; the rule have important business to transact at the other will inform the Senator that there is not a quorum; so declares,

end of the avenue, and I hope we shall adjourn there are but twenty-four Senators in the Cham The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair over for two days in order to give them a chance ber.

understands the rule very well; but there is no to attend to it. I am satisfied that we could not Mr. PETTIT. There may be others in the motion to adjourn.

get a quorum if we should undertake to meet toante-rooms.

Mr. WELLER. I make that motion now. morrow or on Saturday. These are some of the Mr. BRIGHT. I renew the motion that the The motion was not agreed to.

reasons why I think we should adjourn over until Sergeant-at-Arms be directed to request the attend Mr. WELLER. I can only say that there are Monday, and I make that motion. ance of absent members. some very obstinate men here. (Laughter.]

Mr. HOUSTON. The suggestion presented The motion was agreed to.

Mr. PETTIT. I move that when the Senate by the remarks of the honorable Senator has some Mr. SEWARD. I hope the motion of my adjourns it be to meet on Monday next.

weight. I believe, after all, it will be well enough friend from Indiana, that when we adjourn it be Several SENATORS. That motion is not in to turn the whole Senate loose upon the Departto meet on Monday next, will meet the concur order.

ments, and then we can all have a fair chance. I rence of the Senate; and I wish to make an appeal The PRESIDING OFFICER, (Mr. Cooper | think some of our members are rather getting the to the honorable Senator from California, (Mr. in the chair.) The Chair decides it to be in order. advantage of us by staying away when we are WELLER,) and to other Senators who resist that Mr. MASON. I am very reluctant to differ sitting here; and I will releni, sir, and agree to admotion, by stating that, while I am perfectly will. from the judgment of the Chair in any respect, journ over till Monday. (Laughter.) ing, and am determined to remain here so long as but I am satisfied that the motion just made is not The question being then taken, Mr. WeLLER the public business shall require, if it be all next in order. I shall be compelled to appeal from the called for a division; and upon a count, there week, to the sacrifice of all engagements elsewhere, || decision of the Chair on ihe question of order. were-ayes 14, noes 5; no quorum voting. and while I am willing to meet to-morrow and The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair Mr. HUNT'ER. We have no means of comnext day, if it be necessary, yet it must be appa will state the question. A motion was made by pelling the attendance of absent members. We rent that the Executive business for which we are the Senator from Indiana, that when the Senate tried that during the last legislative session, one convened is not in such a situation as to require adjourns it adjourn to meet on Monday next. night when there was a great necessity for the apour attendance here on to-morrow and the day || The Chair entertained the motion. The Senator pearance of a quorum, and at last we were forced after. We shall have time enough after it shall from Virginia appeals from the decision of the io adjourn because we could not compel the atbe prepared and brought before us to act upon it; Chair in entertaining that motion. The question tendance of absent members under such ru'es as and as we all have some business connected with now before the Senate is, “Shall the decision of we now have. We cannot do it on this occasion, our official trusts here which we cannot do at our the Chair stand as the judgment of the Senate?" and the motion to adjourn over cannot prevail for regular sittings, I think some opportunity should Mr. BRIGHT. I will say, with due deference want of a quorum. I hope that we will adjourn. be allowed for that, instead of requiring us to be to the opinion of the Chair, that it is manifest to Mr. BADGER. I move that we now adjourn, here at a time when we can do nothing. Under my mind that the Chair is in error. The Chair and on that motion I call for the yeas and nays. these circumstances, I trust the honorable Senator will see what the effect will be, from the appeal The yeas and nays were ordered; and being from California will withdraw his opposition, and which has been taken by my friend from Virginia. | taken, resulted-yeas 14, nays 12; as follows: allow us to adjourn over.

When the question is put, " Shall the decision of YEAS-Messrs. Badger, Borland, Bright, Butler, Evans, Mr. BUTLER. So far as regards the termina- | the Chair stand as the judgment of the Senate ?" Everet!, Hunter, Mallory, Mason, Phelps, Shields, Smith, tion of this session, it depends entirely on the a division will be called, and there is no quorum.

Thompson of Kentucky, and Weller-14. communications from the President; and whether The PRESIDING OFFICER. That we do not

NAYS--Messrs. Aichison, Bayard, Chase, Cooper,

Dodge of lowa, Fish, Jones of lowa, Pettit, Seward, Stuart, we meet to-morrow, or on Saturday, or not until | know; that question remains to be decided whether

Sumner, and Toucey-12. Monday, makes not the least difference so far as there will be a quorum when the question is put that is concerned. I think if we should adjourn on the appeal.

So the motion was agreed to; and, accordingly,

The Senate adjourned. from now until Monday, we should do just as Mr. BRIGHT. The proper motion, then, with much business; and if we sit every day, we shall due deference to the decision of the Chair, is to do just as little. Why, then, should gentlemen suspend the order requiring absent members to be

Friday, March 25, 1853. so strenuously adhere to theirdetermination to force sent for. us to adjourn from day to day? The session ter Mr. MASON. When the Senate ascertains The PRESIDENT called the Senate to order at minates, as a matter of course, the moment the officially that there is no quorum present, of course

a quarter past twelve o'clock. President sends a message here that he has no the order continues in force to send for absent further communications to make and we confirm members; but as soon as there is a quorum any

Mr. ADAMS submitted the following resolu

tion: all the nominations. It will not close until then; motion will be in order. and in the mean time I think it is the duty of gen The question was then again stated on the ap

Resolved, That the Secretary of the Senate be, and he is

hereby, authorized and directed to appoint a reading clerk, tlemen to attend here in their seats, and not go to peal, and Mr. Bright called for a division.

whose duty it shall be to attend in the Senate and assist the the Departments and stay until about four o'clock, Mr. WELLER. I will propose a compromise. Secretary, and to do such duties when the Senate is not in and then come here at the time when we want our We have no quorum here; thai is evident. Some session as the Secretary may require; and he shall receive dinners, and call for a division on questions in Senators want to adjourn over till Monday, and

per annum out of the contingent fund of the Senate, the

same salary as the Chief Clerk of the Senate. order to defeat the will of the majority of the body. some want to adjourn only till to-morrow. I

The PRESIDENT. The Chair will suggest Mr. WELLER. Mr. President, I take it for therefore propose, as a compromise, that we ad

that there is no quorum present. The rule requires granted that the honorable Senator from South journ over until Saturday. Carolina alludes to me in his concluding remark,

Mr. BRIGHT. I object to any compromise.

him to wait a reasonable time for the appearance

of Senators; and fifteen minutes, in the opinion of and I deem it proper to make an explanation. So The question being then taken on the appeal, far from having business at the Departments which on a division, there were-ayes 15, noes 4; where

the Chair, is a reasonable time.

Mr. SEWARD. I move that the Senate ad. detained me from my seat, I had a constituent, a upon the Chair announced the decision as susCalifornia gentleman, who was fortunate enough tained, and the question recurred on the motion journ. to get married to-day, and having selected me to that when the Senate adjourns it be to meet on

Mr. ADAMS. In order that we may have a back hiin upon that occasion, I was constrained to Monday.

certain count, I will ask for the yeas and nays on absent myself from my place here. No public

Mr. HUNTER. It is useless to be consuming

the motion. business could have induced me to leave the Sen our time in this way, when there is not a quorum

The yeas and nays were ordered; and being

taken, resulted-yeas 14, nays 13; as follows: ate; but when private business, involving a ques- | present, and I therefore move that we adjourn. tion of such an interesting and delicate nature calls Mr. PETTIT called for a division; and the

YEAS-Messrs. Atchison, Benjamin, Butler, Cooper,

Evans, Hamlin, James, Norris, Pettit, Seward, Emith, me away, I know that my gallant friend from question being taken, there were-ayes 9, noes

Sumner, Toncey, and Wright--14. South Carolina would be the last man to complain 12; so the Senate refused to adjourn.

NAYS-Messrs. Adams, Atherton, Dodge of Wisconsin, of my absence. I will say, furthermore, that Mr. STUART. I hope the motion to adjourn Everett, Fitzpatrick, Gwin, Hunter, Mason, Phelps, Stuart, whenever he shall be so fortunate as to get a lady over will not be renewed until there is a quorum

Thompson of Kentucky, Walker, and Weller--13. in the same condition-I mean in a condition to here. Let us have a quorum first, and then vote

So the motion was agreed to, consent to matrimony-it will afford me great afterwards.

And the Senate adjourned. pleasure to back him also. (Laughter.)

Mr. HOUSTON. 'There is not much prosMr. BUTLER. I will promise my friend from pect of that. Instead of increasing the number of California the same thing; and I think there is a Senators present, the longer we sit the more our

Saturday, March 26, 1853. better prospect of his needing my services in that numbers are diminishing. We have just got rid respeci than of my needing his.' (Laughter.] of several more, and I think we might as well ad

Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. C. M. Butler. The question was then stated on the motion of journ and meet to-morrow, unless some gentlemen Mr. THOMSON, of New Jersey, who has been Mr. Pettit, that when the Senate adjourns it be to can give some good reasons for persisting longer absent a few days in consequence of a domestic meet on Monday next: in the motion to adjourn over.

affliction, resumed his seat this morning.

32D CONG.....30 SESS.

Special Session-Indian Expenditures in Minnesota.


NAVAL DEPÔT IN NORTH CAROLINA. distribution of money to the Sioux Indians. The appoint a committee, or a sub-committee from the The following resolution, submitted by Mr. pending question was on the amendinent proposed Committee on Indian Affairs, consisting of three Badger on the 17th instant, was considered and by Mr. Adams, that the Senate appoint a commit members, to investigate, during the recess, the agreed to:

tee of three to make the proposed examination. charges made against Governor Ramsay.

Mr. HUNTER. I ihink the amendment is Mr. ADAMŠ. The proposition originally was, Resolred, That the Secretary of the Navy be directed to inquire whether it will not be advantageous to the Govern.

better than the original proposition. If we are that one member of the committee be delegated to ment of the United States to establish a naval depot at Beau to have this investigation, it had better be done in take the testimony. I moved to strike that out fort in North Carolina, and report to the Senate at the next this way than by sending one individual. But I and insert, that the Senate appoint a committee of session."

object to the policy of having committees sit during three. REPAIRING CAPITOL ROOMS.

the recess. L'object not to this particular commit Mr. COOPER. What I wish to say is, that The following resolution, submitted by Mr.

tee, but to any and all committees sitting in the the Indian Committee is not making any proposiJones, of lowa, on the 7th instant, was considered

recess of Congress. I think it involves very grave tion of this kind, and I certainly am opposed to and agreed to:

considerations. I think it is a practice which is the committee which is proposed by the amend. Resolved, That the Secretary of the Senate pay the

likely to involve us in disagreeable disputes with ment, whether it is to be detailed from the Comamount which may be allowed by the Committee to Audit

the other House. Sir, the House of Representa- mittee on Indian Affairs, or from the body of the and Control the Contingent Expenses of the Senate, for tives have shown a disposition, for the last two or Senate. I do not think there is any difficulty, the expenses incurred during the last session, in repairing three years, to have some concern in the matter of if the Senate chooses to confer the power to do and filling up for use two rooms in the baseinent of the

our contingent fund. Now what powers do we this, namely: to authorize the committee to pursue Capitol.

propose to give this committee, in relation to this the investigation during the recess, by means of a PURSER WELCH.

fund? Are they to have power to raise what com commissioner to take testimony on interrogatoMr. COOPER. In the course of the examina

missions they choose, to send for witnesses in ries filed. That has been done in both Houses. tion before the committee of which the Senator

order to investigate this matter; and how and what | During the last recess, one of the committees of from Texas (Mr. Houston] was chairman, the are they to be paid? Are they to pay witnesses for the Senate undertook to send, and did send a comcommillee appointed to investigate certain charges their expenses? And is all that to be done out of mittee or a commission to Mexico, to investigate of fraud, there was some testimony given in rela the contingent fund? Is the President of the certain matters in relation to charges pending tion to Purser Welch, by the late Secretary of the Senate to decide what they shall be paid? Is the against an individual who is now on his trial. Navy. In that testimony, there was a single word

Secretary of the Senate to decide, or is the chair- | ! presume they did not, in that, transcend their which seemed to reflect upon Purser Welch. The man of the committee himself to decide what the duties. I think it would be altogether better to committee has closed its labors and made its committee shall receive? We see how many em authorize the committee to continue the investigareport; the testimony which I hold in my hand, il barrassing and difficult questions we bring up in lion in this way: Do this: authorize them to apcannot therefore be made a part of the report of the relation to that matter. Suppose we were to con point a commissioner, as the courts appoint a judge committee; but, in justice to the individual against tinue all our committees. I presume there are few or somebody else, to take testimony on interrogwhom there seemed to be some implied censure, committees in this body which could not find prof- || atories filed; and in order that it may not be length. I desire that the note of Mr. Kennedy, the late itable occupation in the recess. Suppose we do ened out for a whole year, and increase the exSecretary of the Navy, explaining his testimony, that; would it involve the necessity of paying those pense unnecessarily, let the witnesses be named, may be read, so that it may go upon the Journal. committees out of the contingent fund of the Sen- as I think we should be prepared to do in twenty

Mr. BORLAND. Before thai letter is read, it is proper for me to say, that in the investigation of ste, during the recess, and by the action of the four hours. I think I know, myself, most of the

Senate alone? Is it to be supposed that the lIouse witnesses that it would be necessary to call upon, what were considered abuses, in the practices in

of Representatives would not claim to interfere in order to present the facts of this whole case to Washington, with regard to getting bills passed when it came to a matter of that sort?

the body at its next meeting in December. I through Congress and obtaining the payment of Besides, sir, I believe there is an objection to think this would be the better course to pursue. claims from the Government, the testimony of such things in the country. I believe it is calcu- | Certainly I am opposed to having a committee sit the late Secretary of the Navy, (Mr. Kennedy,)

lated to bring us into disrepute in the public esti- during the recess; and I concur in every word utcontained expressions which seemed at first to

mation, and I would regard that as a calamity. | tered by my friend from Virginia, (Mr. HUNTER,) reflect unfavorably upon the conduct of Purser

We are but sixty-two individuals. It is true we on the general propriety of continuing the funcWelch, of the Navy. The committee in exam

have a voice in the total appropriation for the tions of certain members of the body during the ining that case, however, came to the conclusion

service of the country-some $50,000,000. We recess; though I think he was mistaken when he that Purser Welch had done nothing culpable in have, when the state of the public business in the spoke of legislative functions attending them. It itself, nor designed to do so. The letter which is

House is considered, or rather the manner in would be a quasi judicial function, such as is somenow offered, confirms that view of the committee,

which they conduct it, the greatest share in the times exercised by the body during the recess. and explains more fully some of the expressions | legislation of the country. How important is it, But I certainly agree in the impropriety of continused in giving the testimony before the committee.

therefore, to preserve appearances, to preserve the ) uing the committees during the recess, and there It was brought to me yesterday by Purser Welch, | respect and esteem of the community, and to do are many reasons besides those which he has with the request that it should be incorporated in

nothing which shall bring us under a suspicion of stated, which may be urged against the practice. the report of the committee; which would have seeking by any indirect means, to extend our pay

Mr. BADGER. Besides the difficulty in the been done, had not the committee reported and and emoluments. I know that is not the intention way of this mode of proceeding, thrown out by been discharged from further duty. I think it is

of the Committee on Indian Affairs. I believe the the Senators from Virginia and South Carolina but just that this public notice should be taken of committees would not seek employment except the other day, it seems to me that there is still the testimony of the late Secretary of the Navy. when they believed the public interest required it. another. It was said that if the resolution in its The letter was read as follows:

But I am not the public. I cannot be blind to original form were adopted, there would be no BALTIMORE, March 24, 1853. the mode in which these things are viewed outside | power in the member delegated by the Committee Dear Sir: In my testimony before the committee of the

of Congress. I believe we should resist every on Indian Affairs to take the testimony to compel Senate in reference to the moneys which were collected by

thing which would throw us under such a suspi the attendance of witnesses, or to punish a witness and Vandalia, as compensation to be paid for the pro cion as I have alluded to. Nor do I see the ne for contempt in case of his refusal io answer. That curement of the California law, passed at the first session cessity of having any committee to look into these is true; but it is equally true with regard to a comof the last Congress, I look occasion to say that I was con.

things. If investigations are to be had during the mittee of the Senate, sitting in the recess of the vinced, from my examination of the case, that Mr. Welch had no pecuniary interest in the transaction. I regarded

recess of the Senate, it would be far better to pass Senate. Such a committee, if a man is called behis agency in the matter as reprehensible only for the effect laws in respect to them, and to have the investiga- | fore them as a witness, and he refuses to come, or such a practice might have on the character of the service tions made under the superintendence of the Ex coming, refuses to answer, have no power to pun. and one which might lead to great abuses, and therefore as one that ought to be checked in future. I am persuaded

ecutive, with a limitation by law, than to leave it ish him, or compel him to answer. They must that he acted in this affair solely froin motives of friendship

to the discretion of a committee of the Senate, to report to the House from which their commission and without due consideration of the hazard to which it be appointed to act in the recess.

is derived, and the authority of the House must might expose bim of being misrepresented and censured for Do our legislative powers continue after the be invoked to compel the requisite witness to dishis participation in it. I told him this in my interviews with bim, and I was strongly impressed by everything that

Senate adjourns? Can we continue the legislative charge his duty; and if he still refuses, to inflict occurred at these interviews that he was entirely free from

functions of a portion of this body after the Senate punishment. Therefore, if we should adopt this any other share in the agency than that of a disinterested has adjourned? It seems to me very doubtful. I resolution, even as amended in the manner propurpose of serving a friend.

know it has been done in the case of the Library posed by the Senator from Mississippi, and if the I make this statement with a view to guard Mr. Welch against any inference tbat he had any other concern in the

committee on some occasions, and in the case of ihree gentlemen who compose the committee were transaction than that which I have mentioned; and I desire the printing committee; but those were small mat to go into one of the States to proceed with the that it inay be received as an addition to the testimony I ters, and they passed sub silentio, and were acqui investigation, unless a witness was willing to prohave already given.

esced in. But, to appoint so many committees as ceed, they could not compel him. If he attended Very truly, my dear sir, yours, &c.,

JOHN P. KENNEDY. we are in the habit of appointing now, to sit in the and refused to answer the interrogatories which Hon. Senator BORLAND.

recess, makes a graver question for consideration. they thought proper to put, they could not force

I believe we had, during the last recess, three or him to answer. The consequence would be that INDIAN EXPENDITURES IN MINNESOTA.

four; and unless we put a check to this practice, it would depend entirely upon the pleasure of the The Senate proceeded to the consideration of the the number will grow, and we shall see the prac persons called upon as witnesses, whether they resolution authorizing the Committee on Indian tice of appointing committees to sit in the recess could attend at all; and if they attended, how many Affairs to delegate one of their number to proceed, || increase at each succeeding session.

and which interrogatories they would answer. during the recess of Congress, to Minnesota, for Mr. COOPER. I am a member of the Com Now, sir, if this were an inquiry with regard to the purpose of taking the iestimony of individualsmittee on Indian Affairs; and I am not in favor any general subject before the country as io matin that Territory, in relation to certain charges of the resolution as I understand it will stand if ters of policy assisting the legislation of the coun. against Governor Ramsay, connected with his il amended as proposed. I believe it is proposed to try hereafter, that would not furnish so strong an

Purser Welch from the officers and crews of the Vincennes

320 Cong..... 30 Sess.

Special SessionReading Secretary of the Senate.


any other.

I have op

objection; but this is an alleged official delin all I would as soon have it done in this case as in pursue in regard to this matter. The Senator quency. It is an imputation of crime; and inde

from Arkansas has expressed his surprise at the pendently of all other objections which have been Mr. BUTLER. I made a few remarks the opposition which has been made to the resolution. stated, which would seem to me to be strong, and other day against this procedure with no aversion I am glad that the Senator from Virginia has . as far as I see unanswerable, it strikes me that to the investigation, but from the belief that it thought it his duty to oppose the practice which this ought to be sufficient to prevent the Senate would be an unconstitutional mode of proceed- | has commenced in the Senate of appointing special proceeding in either of the modes suggested, be- ing. If the Senate creates a tribunal for the inves- | committees to sit during the recess. cause when you undertake to examine a charge rigation of this matter, what can be the end of it? posed this proposition not from any special oppoaffecting the honor, and the personal and official We cannot impeach. We cannot dismiss. Wesition to it, but I have uniformly opposed the delcharacter of an individual, that inquiry ought to may pronounce a censure, and that is a judgment. || egation of power to a single individual to be exerbe directed in such a manner that you can enforce If such a proceeding was to originate in the House cised during the recess. I have not believed that the examination of all who ought to speak, and of Representatives, I could understand that it it was in the power of any committee to do it. I their answer to all the questions necessary to put would look to a purpose, or if it was laid before have not believed that it was in the power of the to them. If there is no power in a committee of the the Executive, I could understand that there might Senate to confer the authority upon its committee. Senate sitting during the recess, I take it to be per be some purpose in view. As to having any aver It is, therefore, distinctly from no objection to the fectly clear that it cannot be devolved upon an sion to the investigation I have none, for I know | investigation, but from the belief that the power individual. If there were no law to that effect we nothing about Governor Ramsay or the other per to grant the authority did not exist, and because could never confer the power upon our commit sons implicated; and in fact, if there has been a I think the practice which has commenced of aptees to administer oaths. It has been done by delinquency, I would like the prosecution to go pointing special committees is a bad one and ought law, but the law which authorized the chairman on; but for the Senate to undertake the investiga to be discontinued, that I have opposed it. I will of a select committee or standing committee to ad tion is inverting everything like the usage contem suggest that so far as the motion to discharge the minister an oath does not authorize either him or plated by the Constitution in proceeding against committee is concerned, at the expiration of the the committee to compel the attendance of wit | delinquents in office. The House of Represent session the power of the committee will expire; nesses or to punish them for their refusal to attend. atives ought to originate and prosecute such pro but at the same time I have no objection to the Therefore, I suppose the committee would be en ceedings; and if the inquiries are to go on with

motion. tirely powerless to perform anything.

the view to the removal of the man censured, it Mr. PHELPS. I desire to know how the Mr. SEBASTIAN. I think, from the discus- | ought to be in the popular branch of the Govern- Committee on Indian Affairs came to have this sion which has taken place, that it would be utterly ment. That was my reason for opposing the res matter under consideration. It is not worth while impossible to come to any accommodation which olution. I did not oppose it because of any aversion to vote to discharge the committee unless the subwould suit the Senate. I must confess I have to the investigation.

ject came before them under the authority of the been somewhat surprised at the special considera Mr. SEBASTIAN. The Committee on Indian Senate. tions introduced upon this question, and at the Affairs had not any agency whatever in the start Mr. MASON. I would inquire'of the chairman objections which have been raised to it. Now, ifing of this investigation. The motion by which of the Committee on Indian Affairs if the subject the Senate will, by unanimous consent, let the the duty was conferred upon them, came from a was referred to the committee at the last session? resolution lie upon the table, I have consulted with member of the body in no way connected with Mr. SEBASTIAN. It was. the Committee on Indian Afairs, and we have that committee. They have proceeded to a cer Mr. MASON. Has it been renewed at this come to the determination to submit another prop tain point in the investigation, and the only reason called session ? osition to the Senate.

why the resolution was proposed to the Senate, is Mr. SEBASTIAN. It has. Mr. BRODHEAD. Before the request of my that they have arrived at a point in the investiga The motion to discharge the committee was friend from Arkansas is complied with, I would tion further than which it is impossible go without | agreed to. like to know what is proposed to be substituted : the authority proposed, and we cannot cease the

CORRESPONDENCE OF MINISTER TO BRAZIL. If he is prepared now with his substitute, let it be investigation without compromising the character offered before the subject passes from us. of the Senate, and appearing to justify a disposition

Mr. SEWARD submitted the following resoluMr. WALKER. I am satisfied from the char to avoid bringing the act of delinquency to light.

tion; which was considered by unanimous conacter of the discussion into which we have been But in view of the considerations which I have sent, and agreed to: led, that there is some cause or other on the part heard adverted to, I will renew the motion that the Resolved, That the President of the United States be re

quested, if compatible with the public interest, to cominuniof gentlemen for an aversion to this investigation. | resolution lie upon the table for the present, and

cate to the Senate the correspondence between the honorI know they have said that they have no objection then I will submit a motion that the Committee on

able R. C. Schenck, Minister of the United States at Brazil, to the investigation; but they think that the Senate Indian Affairs be discharged from the further con and the Secretary of State. is not the proper tribunal to investigate it, not sideration of the subject.

READING SECRETARY OF THE SENATE. withstanding that the Senate is the party to which

Mr. MALLORY. Will the Senator withdraw the matter has been referred, and now has it under the motion for one moment?

On motion by Mr. ADAMS, the following resconsideration. I am satisfied that from some cause Mr. SEBASTIAN. I withdraw it.

olution, submitted by him yesterday, was taken up or other, there is an indisposition to investigate this Mr. MALLORY. I made some slight opposi- for consideration:

I therefore hope that the suggestion of tion, the other day, to the appointment of a mem * Resolved, That the Secretary of the Senate be, and he the chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs ber of the committee to prosecute the investiga

is hereby, authorized and directed to appoint a reading will be agreed to, that the resolution will be or tion in the manner proposed. In doing that, I

secretary, whose duty it shall be to attend in the Senate

and assist the Secretary, and to do such duties when the dered to lie on the table; and I then hope that he certainly had no opposition to the investigation Senate is not in session as the Secretary may require; and will follow it by a motion which will doubtless be proposed. I could have none, for I know nothing he shall receive per annum, out of the contingent fund of gratifying to the Senate, that the committee be of the subject; and it was sufficient for me to know the Senate, the same salary as the Chief Clerk of the Sendischarged from the further consideration of the that the Committee on Indian Affairs believed that subject, so that gentlemen will have the satisfac some frauds had been committed, and desired the Mr. ADAMS. My object in calling up that tion of witnessing that going on to a greater ex investigation; but my opposition was made from resolution this morning is for the purpose of matent, which is now going on; which is—and letters the conviction that the mode proposed would not king an explanation. I am not anxious that it in the city prove the face-that the Indians have only be ineffectual but would' interfere with the should be considered now. I only desire, as a entered houses of private individuals and ravaged very object which the committee had in view. I matter due to the Secretary of the Senate, and the them. I can feel on this subject because I am a will only refer to the fact that one of our special

motives which induced me to offer the resolution, frontier man.

committees, of which the Senator from Texas (Mr. to explain why I did so. I understood from the Mr. HUNTER. For one I have opposed the Houston) was chairman, during the last session Secretary that he had no regular reading clerk, proposition to raise the special committee. I reported to the Senate that one of the witnesses in and it was legitimately the business of the Chief have no objection to the investigation, nor do I the city of Washington refused to testify; and the Clerk to keep a minute of the proceedings of the believe that the laying of this resolution on the committee found itself without the means of en Senate.

The other clerk at ihe desk-Colonel table will prevent it. I have no doubt that the forcing his answering their questions, as suggested Hickey-has duties to perform elsewhere, and his proper Executive authority will make it. I be- || by the Senator from North Carolina. The com duties performed here are extra. It is necessary lieve a Governor of the Territory will be appointed mittee then appealed to the Senate to enforce its that there should be a reading clerk, in order to who ex officio will be Superintendent of Indian authority. My opposition, therefore, was based the proper organization of the desk. When I Affairs, and he will investigate the matter. I have upon the fact that the committee would go on and drew up the resolution it was not intended to reno objection to that; but I am opposed to the pol- | the time between this and the next session would

flect in the slightest degree, in any shape, upon icy, and I have endeavored to show that my op be exhausted in proving that which we now know. our long-tried and faithful Secretary. position was not to this particular proposition, but I thought that no useful result could be accom Mr. PETTIT. Has not the Secretary the that it was one of opposition to the policy of rais- | plished, and therefore opposed it. I now renew power now to appoint the necessary clerks? ing select committees to sit during the recess of the the motion that the resolution lie upon the table. Mr. ADAMS. He has that power, I know; Senate. That is the matter at which I am striking, The motion was agreed to.

and the clerk whom he may appoint for the pur. and not at this particular investigation. I not Mr. SEBASTIAN. I now report back from pose indicated by the resolution, would be entitled only have no objection to the investigation, but I the Committee on Indian Affairs the resolution io a compensation of $1,500 a year. The propowish it to go on when it can be conducted prop- which was referred to them in relation to the charges sition which I make is to place the person to be erly. But I do not believe it is safe to pursue this against Governor Ramsay, and ask to be dis appointed on an equality with the Chief Clerk; practice of raising special committees, and if 1 charged from its further consideration, in order that was done at my own suggestion; the Secrehad permitted this one to pass without opposition, that the Senate may take such steps as it thinks tary was not in the Chamber when I offered the I could not have objected to any other. I wish, proper.

resolution, or I should have consulted him about if I can, to take the sense of the Senate in regard Mr. CHASE. I wish to say a word in refer it. As the dignity of clerkships, and all other to the matter, for if we raise such committees at ence to the course which I have felt it my duty to offices seems to depend very much on the amount



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