572

f the numbers of the | tion or at divine service in the case of children elong instead of 1-8th, whose parents object thereto and produce certifi300,000, which must in-cates of their attending other places of worship. according to the annual

1.

ey is considerably greater the other parts of the amounts to 130,000 in wns which have above is only 170,000 in the schools in these great 11-08th of the working the country for 1-9 2nd ng 50,000 taught at en

cy in the number of the than in the number of ht of the largest towns y schools with 208 schoaverage of all England four to a school, that upil teachers in many of masters in others, but advantage in increasing this being one of the schools, while the plan ew schools of instructing scholars themselves, is fall into disuse.

"18. That the indifference which has been found of the parents in many places to obtain education for their children, and a reluctance to forego the advantages of their labour, by withdrawing them from school, is mainly owing to the ignorance of their parents, and this can best be removed by the encouragement of a taste for read-· ing, by the establishment of Mechanics' Institutions, Apprentices' Libraries, and Reading Rooms, and by the abolition of all taxes upon knowledge.

on given at the greater now established for the s of a kind by no means tion, being for the most g, writing, and a little no greater expense, and ildren might easily be ts of the more useful and thereby trained to

of infant schools is still especially in those great st wanted for improving and preventing the com

"19. That in towns there have been established upwards of 1,200 of such institutions and readingrooms, with above 100,000 members, but that by far the greater number of these members are persons in the upper and middle classes, a very small proportion only belonging to the working classes; but it has been found in some parts of the country, particularly in Cumberland, that when the whole management of the affairs of the institutions is left in the hands of the working men themselves, a very great proportion of the attending members belong to that class, and both by frequenting the rooms and taking out the books to read, show their desire of profiting by the institution.

expedient to do nothing ts of private beneficence schools, or which may sses of the people from of educating their childn Parliament to aid in ans of instruction where be obtained for the

ent upon Parliament to er the establishment of in larger towns.

f schools under the au

"20. That in every quarter, but more especially where there are no reading-rooms in the country districts, the great obstacle to diffusing useful knowledge among the people has been the newspaper stamp, which prevents papers containing local and other intelligence from being added to such works of instruction and entertainment as might at a low price be circulated among the working classes, and especially among the country people, along with that intelligence.

"21. That the funds given by charitable and public spirited individuals and bodies corporate for promoting education, are of a very large amount, probably when the property is improved and the abuses in its management are corrected, not less than half a million a year; and that it is expedient to give to the Board formed under the Charitable Trusts Act of 1853 such additional powers as may better enable them, with the assent of trustee and special visitors (if any), to apply portions of the funds now lying useless to the education and improvement of the people."

EARL GRANVILLE said, that if the noble and learned Lord deemed it necessary to express humility in introducing this subject to their notice, he hardly knew ent to confer upon the what he ought to say in rising, not to reporated cities and bo-ply to, but to follow the noble and learned ing a rate for the esta-Lord in the observations which he had just tion with the Education addressed to their Lordships. He could ouncil, care being taken only say for himself that almost the first d afforded shall only be act he performed when he became connect, and so as to help and ed with the Committee of Privy Council on Education was to read the volume containing his noble and learned Friend's speeches on education, and he believed it was impossible for any one to have read those speeches of the noble and learned llowing no compulsion Lord without acknowledging, not only the ace at religious instruc- spirit, eloquence, and ability with which he

ndividual exertion. ion to begin and to conrate shall in every case ounded or aided by such children of all parents, m being given, and the them, but not used as a

had advocated a caus
those times as it now w
skill with which he poin
and suggested many m
for improving the syst
this country. With re
lations, of course the
Lord did not mean th
were to express any op
they had not yet been
natice; and with respe

the subjects to which th
Lord had adverted, suc
the stamp and mecha
did not intend to tron
ith any observations
The noble and learned
their attention to the
fanal schools and ele
and had given them a
press those school
1818. He
gave also
hat had been given u
He (Earl Gran
be had some difficulty i
returns, because it wa
duce any sound statisti
are the mere number
ceived instruction. B
Teakening the noble
case, very much stren
was ready to admit tha
pel points he made w
ment, in many distric
best lamentable defic
he labouring poor.
me be admitted that
elt point to obviate un
tem, for so long as the
ple-excellent, no d
State only gave s
on to the amount of
was almost impossi
eficiencies. Though
ciple on which th
mulating persons to
on they stimulated
rest in the best of
et, no doubt, was t
schools in very

ter in the country
le and learned L
de limited period of
He might mention tha
4s year a minute
Privy Council Comm
ich was to provide
Bors of ten years of
This was

something could not b

only an e

had advocated a cause not so popular in the education of boys at 'that those times as it now was, but the singular might or it might not succeed, an skill with which he pointed out deficiencies, mentioned it because their Lords and suggested many means, since adopted, took an interest in the success of for improving the system of education in might be able to do a great deal i this country. With regard to these Reso- ing the end sought to be attain lutions, of course the noble and learned noble and learned Friend well Lord did not mean that their Lordships measures that had been adopted were to express any opinion upon them, as to time to encourage national e they had not yet been brought under their and he believed it was a well-mer notice; and with respect to one or two of pliment he had paid to the judic the subjects to which the noble and learned duct of the Committee of Counci Lord had adverted, such as the question of cation since 1846. It was imp the stamp and mechanics' institutions, he overstate the advantage which h did not intend to trouble their Lordships from the labours of that Commit with any observations on that occasion. proving the quality of the educati The noble and learned Lord had directed The progress made during the their attention to the subject of the na- years had been quite remarkable tional schools and elementary instruction, believed, unequalled in any othe and had given them a short account of the in the world. He was informed progress those schools had made since who had the best opportunities o 1818. He gave also a clear abstract of of the quality of the education what had been given under the Census re- the schools that there was no o turn. He (Earl Granville) confessed that Europe where it could be surpass he had some difficulty in dealing with those pupil teachers had been found to returns, because it was impossible to de- greatest possible use, and the sy duce any sound statistics from returns that infinitely superior to the old i gave the mere number of pupils who re-mode, where boys were set to tea ceived instruction. But this, so far from before they had themselves acqui weakening the noble and learned Lord's the knowledge or the experience. case, very much strengthened it; and he ed, also, a good nursery for schoo was ready to admit that one of the princi- The training colleges were sca pal points he made was, that at this mo- over the country, and the assista ment, in many districts, there existed a to these training colleges he rega most lamentable deficiency of schools for the highest degree important. T the labouring poor. It must at the same very few great landowners or man time be admitted that this was a very diffi- who did not feel some interest in cult point to obviate under the present sys-blishment of elementary schools tem, for so long as they adopted the prin- own neighbourhoods. The Com ciple-excellent, no doubt, in itself that Privy Council had, during the the State only gave something in propor- taken measures which he hoped w tion to the amount of local contributions, to encourage pupils to remain at it was almost impossible to supply those two years instead of one; and, deficiencies. Though he approved the be attained, the result would be principle on which they acted, because in vantageous in the training of pup stimulating persons to give money for edu- regard to the schoolmasters, it cation they stimulated them to take an in- objected that by a rule of the Co terest in the best of purposes, yet the could have nothing to do with th effect, no doubt, was to make it difficult to ters whose salaries did not reach set up schools in very poor districts, whe- that this was entirely in oppositio ther in the country or in towns. The subversive of the intentions of the noble and learned Lord had adverted to he was happy, however, now to s the limited period of attendance at school. the demand for schoolmasters exc He might mention that at the beginning of supply, and that 80l. was ofter this year a minute was passed by the lary received, and, in many ins Privy Council Committee, the object of reached 1007. He believed that which was to provide for the attendance of tem of inspection had been most boys of ten years of age only half time. He thought that, without it, th This was only an experiment to see if would have been comparatively b something could not be done to encourage avail, and that their funds would

64

ystem of inspection, | sick. He had been told by one of the in-
led they had received spectors who had been long under the
He considered that committee, that in this district, not only
to overstate the ad- around the metropolis, but in the country,
ued from having the day after day, instruction was given of the
dy of highly educat- most useful character on many of these
ected to the subject subjects. He might mention, to show the
and who were con- confidence the Committee had in their pre-
ion with and bring- sent system, the increase that had taken
to the central office, place in the schools and teachers during
influence on the four years. At the end of 1850 there were
I would not trouble 1,717 schools, and 4,660 Government ap-
ering into details as prentices or pupil teachers; in 1851,
ven in these train-2,600 schools, and 5,607 teachers; in
d merely refer them 1852, 2,277 schools, and 6,180 teachers;
minutes before them, and at the end of 1852 there were 2,546
ould see the sub- schools, and 6,912 teachers; or, in other
asters were examin- words, there was at the end of 1852 an in-
ed a certificate. He crease of nearly 50 per cent over the num-
eal said as to the na-bers of 1850. With regard to the abuses
iven in these national of charities, he thought he was perfectly
riticism on this sub-right in saying that the powers in the
d that was that too hands of the Commissioners ought to be
He believed, however, that
given, particularly in increased.
to the pupils attain- that Board had acted most zealously; and
knowledge of the numerous applications had been made to
geography of the Old them by trustees to place schools on a
ought that while the more efficient footing. The Commissioners
ht to be given to the had gone into these cases, and almost in-
e fundamental princi-variably had to say, Your case is a good
if the time of the one, and we hope your wishes may be
so much by master- complied with; we have not the power to
hich he had alluded, help you, but you must go to the Court
prevented them from of Chancery." The applicants, however,
which would be much did not seem to like the notion of going
hildren of the labour-into Chancery, and, therefore, did not fol-
deal had been said on low up this suggestion. He considered
become a cant phrase, that amendments ought to be introduced
and the advantage to on this subject, and most probably a
è instruction in them. measure would be introduced next Session
d, in an excellent to effect this, and he trusted that such a
to bring this subject measure would receive the favourable con-
d he (Earl Granville) sideration of their Lordships. The last
be followed up. At point that had been mentioned by the
would be hardly fair noble Lord was as to the mode of esta-
ships to think that blishing schools to supply the deficiencies
en overlooked in the which they so much lamented. It was
establishments. On impossible for him (Earl Granville) to ex-
- establishments, par-press any opinion on this at present, and
r the senior inspec- he could only say that all the Members of
he general order of the Government were most anxious on this
d be found that lec- subject, and would gladly avail themselves
he elements of politi- of any opportunity of establishing a more
eting wages; also on enlarged system of education, and they
s, modes of cookery, were determined to push with the greatest
powers, mensuration, possible vigour their present means and
schools attended by powers. Their Lordships would see, from
cookery attended to, the fate of the Government educational
and regulations, and measure of last Session, and that of the
and attention to the Scottish measure of this, and also from

the evidence received Committee on Educatio

great practical difficult troducing any new sys they, therefore, must a and be sure "that the old love before they new," and they ought

any steps which woul instead of favourable were so desirous of att possible to discuss this and great advantage from having it discuss ings so as to bring it a under the attention tendered his thanks to baring brought this Lordships, and for his ich he had cleared sions created by a pa kin in some remarks Session, and the nobl his speech of to-nig efforts in behalf of on Efe had not in the leas THE EARL OF HAR call the attention of t necessity of dealing metropolis to what the try districts. In the not the same agencie they had 2,500,000 mutual feelings exist ployers and employe there was a great def of education. In come under his notic ago, there was no sc poor; during Fears there had been ed. There were oth polis as badly off, in could not act, and poor to do so. He the same assistance to these parts of th Country districts. tional education w state, for its devel had of late years other, and it had be of the State, but lieved, however, th of labour took an and felt the duti requiring all child their employ, to su test, and also of ties of acquiring VOL. CXXX

of the

LORD CAMPBELL rose to statement of his noble Friend rence to the metropolis. It been found that where there wer of education crime prevailed, and cation tended to lessen it. He to say that in the metropolis most enormously increased, I among juvenile offenders, au therefore, of the last importanc metropolis should be attended t there that there was the most cessity for the interference of there was no local feeling to aid ing the children, nothing but al verty and destitution, and the properly required by the Cou there should be some local dona not be complied with, and it wa poverty of these metropolitan dis rendered their case so hopeless.

the evidence received before the Irish | entered into their employ, th Committee on Education, that there was a would not be enabled sufficientl great practical difficulty in the way of in- the advantages from the means troducing any new system of education; tion supplied to them. they, therefore, must act on the old song, and be sure "that they were off with the old love before they were on with the new," and they ought to beware of taking any steps which would prove prejudicial instead of favourable to the object they were so desirous of attaining. It was impossible to discuss this subject too much, and great advantage would be derived from having it discussed at public meetings so as to bring it as much as possible under the attention of all classes. He tendered his thanks to the noble Lord for having brought this subject before their Lordships, and for his excellent speech, by which he had cleared away false impressions created by a passing joke made by him in some remarks made early in the Session, and the noble Lord had also by his speech of to-night proved that his efforts in behalf of one great object of his life had not in the least degree diminished. THE EARL OF HARROWBY desired to call the attention of their Lordships to the necessity of dealing differently with the metropolis to what they did with the country districts. In the metropolis they had not the same agencies to work throughthey had 2,500,000 of people, and no mutual feelings existing between the employers and employed, and consequently there was a great deficiency of the means of education. In one parish that had come under his notice two or three years ago, there was no school for the children of the poor; during the last three or four years there had been one school established. There were other parts of the metropolis as badly off, in which the clergyman could not act, and the people were too poor to do so. He thought, at least, that the same assistance ought to be extended to these parts of the metropolis as to the country districts. He considered that national education was in a most hopeful state, for its development in the country had of late years exceeded that of any other, and it had become not only the wish of the State, but of the people. He be. lieved, however, that until the employers of labour took an interest in this subject, and felt the duties imposed on them of requiring all children, previous to entering their employ, to submit to an educational test, and also of affording them all facilities of acquiring knowledge after they had VOL. CXXXV. [THIRD SERIES.]

LORD BROUGHAM, in reply verted to the pamphlet which published by Dr. Hook, of L addressed to one of the right rev which contained as much enligh sound and liberal doctrine as written by any man. He (Lord I was of opinion that religious ought to be given in all schools assistance from the State, subj qualification respecting Dissen that Scripture ought to be read schools; but he agreed with that the Bible ought not to b school-book or lesson-book.

The further Debate on the sa put off, sine die.

YOUTHFUL OFFENDERS B

Order of the Day for the Sec ing read.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR, the second reading of this Bill, st its object was, that, in the case o offenders, there should be a pow dition to inflicting some slight pu of sending them to reformatory He felt that this was one of the cult subjects with which a a L could have to deal, because, de the subject was-and necessary lieved it to be, that the Governme make an effort to provide for itnot but feel that they were lia met by the objection, that if th

U

ion because he had stead of sending these juvenile offenders to
e, they might be reformatory schools, in addition to the
punishment of imprisonment, they should
be sent there in lieu of it, and not be ex-
posed, for however short a term, to the
contamination of a gaol. He believed that
the whole mischief was done in sending
them to our ordinary gaols at all, and
that the discipline and control to which
they would be subjected in well-regulated
reformatory schools would be found punish-
ment enough. He had read the greater
part of the evidence which had been laid
before Parliament on the subject, and he
thought it strongly preponderated in favour
of the opinion which he had just expressed.

s, in fact, in a far
hose who had been
11. Still, there was
owing feeling that in
1 offenders, at all
ought to be made;
y the present Bill to
, not by establishing
such as that which
by proceeding in a
'here were many re-
t present existing,
lished by the volun-
volent and honest-
and what was pro-
LORD CAMPBELL, in giving his as-
nspectors of Prisons sent to the Bill, said, he would take that
e schools, and that opportunity to remind the House that,
ed of them favour- shortly after his return from the last
n opinion that they spring circuit, he had called the attention
their object, there of their Lordships to the enormous mis-
send juvenile offend-chief and inconvenience which resulted
go the discipline and from there being no means of dealing with
Eion which they had small offences, except committing the par-
carry out. If the ties charged for trial at the assizes or ses-
uate to the accom- sions, which led to their being retained in
ofessed object, the gaol for twice or three times the period
would have power to for which they would have been sent to
ent any other offend-prison if they had been tried and found
to it; and if any guilty at the moment. At the trial they
once sent, should often pleaded guilty, and, in consideration
without a licence, he of their long previous confinement, were
unishment for so do- dismissed perhaps with a single hour's im-
by adopting this sys-prisonment. The inconveniences which
le to effect, to some resulted from such a state of things were
n effected to a consi- considerable; and his noble and learned
unce-that the juve- Friend the Lord Chancellor, when he
o these institutions spoke of those inconveniences, had pro-
ious habits in them, mised that the attention of the Govern-
as respectable and ment should immediately be directed to it;
society. It was an but the Session was now drawing to a
, in the right direc- close, and no Government measure had
many persons would been introduced, while a Bill which had
that it did not go been introduced into the other House of
at it was better that Parliament by an hon. and learned Friend
by degrees upon a of his (Mr. Aglionby), and some of the
mportance, than that clauses in which would have embraced this
risk of failure by at- subject, had been recently withdrawn. He
wished to ask his noble and learned
ill be now read 2a. Friend, therefore, whether something could
ON said, that while not yet be done? for he was sure that,
the Bill as far as it notwithstanding the Sessional order which
himself one of those fixed to-morrow as the latest day for read-
e noble and learned ing any Bill a second time, such a measure
d, who thought that as that to which he had referred would be
ght have been done voted "urgent," and would receive the
1. There was one favourable consideration of the House.
which he wished to THE EARL OF DONOUGIMORE con-
He thought that, in- curred warmly in the object of the Bill,
ellor

t once.

and wished to ask tl
Lord why its provision
to Ireland, where g
found in dealing with
ers than with any ot
THE LORD CHA
the Bill was originally
other House of Parl
not excepted, and he
should be; but the e
troduced at the insta
of Gentlemen connec
entry in the other
With respect to the d
and learned Friend
was true he had pron
tion of the Governme
to the subject to whic
ed Friend had referre
had papers before hi
Preparing a Bill; an
eded to do so, beca
bon. and learned Fr
had introduced a Bill
to which he had give
tre consideration, a
risons of which appe
datinetly to the point
cipated that that

be had taken for g
Come up, in due cour
Base; but, without
Asule and learned
e any measu
would take
ey body but h
TEARL OF HA
the noble Earl
The Lari of Donoug
ereriment in Comm
ind within the oper
After a few wor
ALL, LORD REDE
LINCOLN,

Bul read 2a accor

to a Committee o
Friday next.

USURY LAW
Order of the Da

ing read.

THE MARQUESS O
the second readin
that it might be in
Lordships that th
had been found to
tion of the laws

So many and so g
ing strong preju
usury and usur
necessary to rela