borrowed money from them were men of
straw, or had gone to America, and that
the persons who professed to be their
securities were not to be found. It ap-
peared, also, that a great part of what
had been paid off by the borrowers was
never actually stated to have been paid off,
and no doubt there had been dishonesty in
some instances on the part of the clerks,
and most culpable negligence in other in-
stances. The result was, that the trea-
surer, out of his own private resources,
had to refund a portion of the money to
the poor people, who received a dividend
of 8s. in the pound. He thought that, for
the sake of similar societies still remain-
ing in Ireland, they should ascertain the
amount of security in existence, and what
amount of security the Government could
force the treasurer to give.

Was he not a proprietor of And when he succeeded theories, it would be quite r the House of Commons to They were told also that ety entertained a high idea and that it was admirably eir purposes. Then let the it into effect. The Bible d a great deal of printing nd at a cheap rate; they , the best persons to test . No doubt the House of ht print a great deal too nsiderable reformation was head, but at that period of would be ridiculous to set stigation of that kind, and refore, strongly oppose the

ENE, in reply, said, he must s possible for private indivihe value of the experiment th the House of Commons. chemselves had admitted the of reform in this branch of nditure, and as no steps had remedy the evil it was evito leave the matter in their

Mr. FAGAN seconded the Motion.
Motion made, and Question proposed,
"That a Select Committee be appointed to
inquire into the management of the Loan Fund
Societies in Ireland.”

SIR JOHN YOUNG said, he thought there could be no objection to the appointment of a Select Committee, as proposed by the hon. Gentleman; but it was not a question, strictly speaking, in which the Government had anything to do. Many divided :-Ayes 56; Noes years ago, persons who were in the habit 24.

t.

DAN FUND SOCIETIES.

of lending small sums of money to the
industrious poor, thought it would be a
good thing to obtain facilities for the re-
covery of those sums, and Acts of Parlia-
ment were passed for the purpose, but no
Government security was given. A great
many persons, at the time those Acts of
Parliament were passed, entertained great
doubts as to the policy of them, and whe-
ther in reality those charitable institutions
would be of advantage to the industrious
poor; and if doubts were entertained when
those Acts were passed, it appeared, from
experience, that nothing could be more
prejudicial to the interests of the poor
than those loan funds; but other persons
entertained different opinions. According
to this loan fund system, it was impossible
to avoid making bad debts. A sum of
money was borrowed at five per cent, and
lent out at nine per cent, leaving only four
per cent for the payment of expenses and
the covering of bad debts. They, conse-
quently, found it necessary to keep the
money always out on loan, and when they
could not get good borrowers they must
take bad ones, and in many of them bad
debts were contracted where there was the

ARD-URQUHART moved ommittee to inquire into the f the Loan Fund Societies He begged to call attention Parliament, passed respectars 1836 and 1843, for the E management of those sovere placed under the con- Fund Board, and certainly nts seemed to be sufficient ty of the money that was ention having been called to ces of two loan fund soounty he represented, he had abstract of accounts transament, pursuant to the Acts d referred, and they seemed far as they went; but they edingly meagre, as to leave imposition. He afterwards e loan fund office, to look rly into the accounts, and the figures in several coxceedingly garbled. It apme of the persons who had

mour

de contribution
ex (if any) to
Under that sy
to charitable
stem went o
ine in 1847.
6 had acted wise
LULLY said, he
way of appointing
e thought it well to
Fand Board co
satisfactory footing
A agreed to.

IET-OF-LEAVE SY
YAAS said, he wou

Correspondence t the Irish Govern the county of Done ticket of leave of Med of a Ribbon offen to assure the rig Secretary for Ire Motion he did n tility to the Gove it desirable at the en that the public at principle upon ✨d leave were given. wd in a remote distri tich he was ab soned a consideral the magistra inhabitants of arhich the event that a man of the n ey had been convicted i fence. In about t Ceards this man heek to the same dis be had pursued a Many years ago Sw

tee.

MR. FRENCH said, that in 1831 a Bill was brought in by him to limit the interest paid upon the contributions to five per cent, the surplus (if any) to go to charitable purposes. Under that system 17.000l. was paid over to charitable objects in one year, and the system went on satisfactorily until the famine in 1847. He thought the Government had acted wisely in granting the Committee.

greatest vigilance and accuracy of manage- | was evicted from his farm. Sween
ment. But in the two loan fund societies occupied a cottage in the neighbou
to which the hon. Gentleman had referred, and a man of the name of Starre
there was no accuracy at all. The gen- ceeded him in the farm, and occupi
tleman who had the management lost house which had previously belong
about 5501., and the debenture holders Sweeny. Twelve months before the
were also losers, but there was a severe mission of the outrage referred to, S
loss inflicted on the gentleman to whom he threatened to disturb Starrett's posi
referred, who seemed to be perfectly single a most lawless way; and intimated
minded, and to have been actuated by the latter, that unless he was compensa
most charitable motives. In conclusion, respect to some claim which he h
he begged to say, that there was no objec- up, he would revenge himself on St
tion to the appointment of the Commit- On the 5th of April, 1851, Sweeny
a party of followers, broke into Sta
house, declaring, upon their entrance
they had come there for justice.
thereupon beat Starrett severel
very
from the effects of the injuries wh
received he died shortly after the
and his mother was so severely trea
the same occasion that she was never
to recover from the effects of her in
In addition to the commission of
dreadful outrages the party of S
stole everything they found in the h
and they took away a horse, which
subsequently killed to prevent det
There was great difficulty in obtainin
dence in consequence of the lawless st
the country; but Sweeny was ulti
brought to trial, was convicted a
summer assizes in 1851, and was
tenced to ten years' transportation.
then that part of the country was g
disturbed, there being no less than
agrarian outrages between the sprin
summer assizes of last year. Two ba
were proclaimed, and a third stipe
magistrate was sent down there, to
with a number of extra police, a
charge of 1,500l. a year upon tho
ronies. At the summer assizes in
Chief Baron Pigott delivered a mo
pressive charge, and said that seld
the course of his judicial experience
know the country to have been in s

MR. F. SCULLY said, he concurred in
the propriety of appointing the Commit-
tee, but he thought it well to consider how
far the Loan Fund Board could be placed
on a more satisfactory footing.
Motion agreed to.

for

TICKET-OF-LEAVE SYSTEM.

LORD NAAS said, he would now move

Copies of Correspondence that had taken place between the Irish Government and the magistrates of the county of Donegal, relative to the liberation on ticket of leave of Miles Sweeny,

a man convicted of a Ribbon offence in 1851."

He begged to assure the right hon. Gen-
tleman the Secretary for Ireland, that in
making this Motion he did not intend the
slightest hostility to the Government; but
he thought it desirable at the outset of a
new system that the public should know
the exact principle upon which those
tickets of leave were given. The circum-less a state as part of the county D
stances to which he was about to allude
happened in a remote district in Ireland,
and occasioned a considerable degree of
alarm amongst the magistrates and the
well-disposed inhabitants of the particular
county in which the event occurred. It
appeared that a man of the name of Miles
Sweeny had been convicted in 1851 of an
agrarian offence. In about two and a half
years afterwards this man was released,
and sent back to the same district in which
it was found he had pursued a most lawless
course. Many years ago Sweeny's father

was at that time. To show the st. the country at the last summer ass most daring outrage was perpetrated the eyes of the Judge himself. A ma about to be tried for a Ribbon offenc while the Judge was sitting in the and the grand jury were going th their business, in the presence of the the grand jury, and the Judge, a pa Ribbonmen entered the town, and away the principal witness upon the The Judge was so struck by this ex dinary proceeding that he adjourn

eturned in a fortnight after- | He (Lord Naas) quite concurred with these the perpetrators of this out- opinions, and thought that it was most the meantime had been desirable to know whether it was proposed the magistrate. The com- by the Government to grant these tickets ade in respect to this man of leave to persons convicted of agrarian this that notwithstanding outrages. They ought also to know wheate of the country and of this ther they were to be given, in the exercise n, this man Sweeny, who of the prerogative of the Crown, as a y a bad character, was in a mitigation of punishment, or whether they er his conviction and sentence were to be granted as rewards for good ion sent back, with a ticket behaviour in prison. He certainly did not e place of his birth-where think that tickets of leave should be grantubt, now pursuing the same ed as a sort of quasi pardon or mitigation essness and crime. A strong of punishment. It was certainly possible was drawn up by the magis- that the liberation of this man might have nt to the Lord Lieutenant, arisen from one of those mistakes which resolutions, setting forth the would inevitably arise sometimes; and in gement to outrage which the that case nothing more could be said about of this offender gave, and it. But he could not but think that the inst the ticket-of-leave sys- inhabitants of this district, so long the esolutions agreed to were scene of agrarian outrage, ought to receive an assurance that these perpetrators should not receive tickets of leave, or at any rate that they should not be permitted to return to the scene of their former crimes.

ndersigned magistrates of the al, with the most anxious desire

fect the wishes and decisions of as well as the' law of the land,

ay before your Excellency the ease of difficulty thrown in the by the plan at present adopted, ets of leave' to convicts, wherearn to the scenes of their former

ty two prisoners of the name of and Shane), brothers, were tried sizes, 1851, for burglary, assault, n a man named William Starrett, ault, and its consequences, the y died. The cause of this outan, the enforcing from Starrett For land given to his father, from enys or their father had been ars before.

convicted, and sentenced to ten ation. Miles Sweeny has now his very district since the winter

BUSE OF COM
Tawalay, July 19
IP BILLS.-1°
Friendly Societi
alty Court.

By Trial (Scotland)
ENESS OF THE I
HN RUSSELL
el move that the
Amendments t
Bill be taken into
Sve night. In ma
take the opport
ement relative to t
My attention ha
tion of the Hous
his to the effect
the House of
d time, except
the 25th of July,
"ses of peculiar urg
in consequence
which must be
an not now quoti
the substance of th
e of Lords. W
we can much co
h of July, there

SIR JOHN YOUNG said, there was no objection to give this correspondence, though he must observe that there was nothing in the papers which came before the Irish Government to show that the man in question was convicted of a Ribbon offence. He was sorry to say that the county of Donegal was not in a good state, that disturbances prevailed there, that a district had been proclaimed, and that it would be necessary to continue that proclamation. He apprehended that the ticket-of-leave system which had been recently introduced in place of transportation was now on its trial, and that such tickets would only be granted when he behaviour of the convicts in prison was such as to would not endanger the peace of society. give a fair prospect that if let out they Those remarks had, however, no reference to the present case. The man Sweeny having been convicted of a burglary and a violent assault, was sent to Spike Island, where he remained until two or three months ago. The Lord Lieutenant then received a petition from his wife, stating that he was in bad health, and praying for his release. This petition was referred to the medical officer of the Spike Island prison, who reported that the prisoner was in fact labouring under a dangerous disease, which would be greatly aggravated by continued confinement. That report was sent to the Judge who tried the case, and he having stated that he thought it was

rsigned, with the utmost respect, onsideration of your Excellency agement this man's enlargement Obon confederacy-a system ory to protect landholders against prevalent now in this country, cy is aware the greater part of it d not only to afford encourages, but to impart increased terror e well-disposed, and to render it ss than it has hitherto been to n or assistance to bring offendnd we very earnestly pray your

in the solitary instances of cones arising out of Ribbonism' ay not be allowed tickets of home, which are considered, and distinguished by an ignorant rdon; and are, therefore, calcue law still more impotent than

ases."

S

the

part of

eider new mea
* time there is som
e business of this
Resolution. I ha
to arrange the bus
e, that the measures
the cher House sha
Ay next. There is
which is of the gre
e three kingdoms-

tery and corrup
This House has
Te to that Bill, and
this House withou

proper that under the circumstances the discussion. But there are two imp man should be released, the Lord Lieu- points still to be considered. tenant ordered the liberation. Nor did he whether this House will sanction i (Sir J. Young) believe that any Govern- way, or will withhold its sanction ment would keep a man in prison at the any expenses for refreshment or allow risk of his life, when he had been sentenced for travelling, and likewise whethe to a punishment much less than death. declaration shall be made by Mer He might again remark that there was either at their nomination nothing in the paper that came under the House. Still, I hope that we may notice of the Government to show that this question, and fix the Bill for a Sweeny had committed a "Ribbon of- reading, so that it may arrive i fence. House of Lords in time. That Bill for twelve o'clock to-morrow; and

Motion agreed to.

or i

The House adjourned at half after do not get through the considerat Eleven o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Wednesday, July 19, 1854.

MINUTES.] PUBLIC BILLS.-1° National Gallery,
&c. (Dublin); Friendly Societies Acts Continu-
ance; Admiralty Court.
Reported-Jury Trial (Scotland).

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.

Committee of the whole of the clau shall propose to take it again at the ing sitting, and to proceed with it in manner that, possibly on Friday, or latest on Monday, we may send it House of Lords. There are various Bills of considerable public impor that it will be necessary to take Committee of Supply, which I had posed to take on Friday. I will tak that they are placed on the Orders Day for to-morrow, so that the Hous know what Bills are to be first prod with.

With this statement, I move the Order of the Day for considerin Lords' Amendments of the Oxford U sity Bill be now read, in order that i be postponed until to-morrow se'n and I think that the consideration other Bills coming down from the Ho Lords had better be postponed, in

Lords to which I have called attentio

Motion agreed to; Considerati Lords' Amendments deferred from morrow till Thursday, 27th July.

&c. LAND)-ADJOURNED DEBATE (T

CHURCH TEMPORALITIES,

LORD JOHN RUSSELL: Mr. Speaker, I rise to move that the consideration of the Lords' Amendments to the Oxford University Bill be taken into consideration to-morrow se'nnight. In making this Motion, I will take the opportunity of making a statement relative to the business of the House. My attention has been called to a Resolution of the House of Lords of May 2, which is to the effect that no Bills coming from the House of Commons be read a second time, except Bills of Sup-quence of the Resolution of the Ho ply, after the 25th of July, unless they be measures of peculiar urgency, or are brought in in consequence of recent circumstances, which must be stated to the House. I am not now quoting the words, but that is the substance of the Resolution of the House of Lords. Well, I do not know that we can much complain that, after the 25th of July, there should be an unwillingness on the part of the House of Lords to consider new measures, but at the same time there is some difficulty in making the business of this House accord with that Resolution. I have thought it best so to arrange the business of this House, that the measures that we can send to the other House shall be sent up by Monday next. There is one Bill more especially which is of the greatest importance to the three kingdoms-the Bill with respect to bribery and corrupt practices at elections. This House has given a great deal of time to that Bill, and I hope it will go through this House without much more VOL. CXXXV. [THIRD SERIES.]

NIGHT).

Order read, for resuming adjourne bate on Question [13th June]-" leave be given to bring in a Bill to and amend the Laws relating to the poralities of the Church in Ireland, increase the means of religious instr and church accommodation for Her 1 ty's Irish subjects.'

Question again proposed.
Debate resumed.

MR. KENNEDY said, that, no standing the impracticability of co ing a measure of such importance a advanced period of the Session, he dered it right that an opportunity be afforded to the hon. and learned

Р

at Shee) of answering the had been made, and he t he had discharged his the adjournment of the revious occasion.

། །

tai Commissioners them
is return made by the
stating their net
ng the most ludiero
insurance on their
A per cent on accoun
ed on their houses, p
haya!-and various

, at 64,4301.; ther
te considered to have
ating it at 68,
dimit the justice
sion. Then,
chial revenu
C001., and t
tions on the
ok, who, he
courtesy in th
in a manner
had been mis
isht also justif
ement of 12,00
fitaries, and 9,
e. But the ri
deman said he
; now, he could
de right. In add
disposable by t
Cissioners as perm
sum of 15,000
as permanent, bu
prospective increase
and there was &
down by the

which the surplus revenue was proposed
to be appropriated, from the Bill which he
now asked leave to introduce. In a ques-
tion of such importance, he asked, could
the House blame him, representing as he
did a constituency of 150.000 souls, of
whom 8,000 alone were Protestants, for
wishing to bring in a Bill on the matter,
when he found the whole of the ecclesias-
tical revenues of his diocese in the hands of
the clergy of those 8,000 persons; while
the clergy of the members of his own
creed had neither houses to live nor
churches to worship in, unless they pro-
vided them out of their private resources?
What was he there for if he had not a
right to bring this shameful grievance be-
fore the people of England? And he
believed that when they were informed
of it, they would be the first to correct
the abuses he complained of. What he
asked was, whether they would maintain
their Establishment in dignity and honour,
and not whether they would in any great
degree deprive it of its funds? This was
the first time that an attempt had been
made to bring this subject before the
House, without in any way exceeding the
liberty given to the Roman Catholies by
the oath which they took on entering the
House; for the proposition which he made
to them was quite consistent with the
maintenance of the present Established
Church in honour and dignity. He was
astonished that, after the description he
had given of the state of things in Ireland
in moving for leave to introduce this Bill,
there should be any objection to allowing
him to lay it on the table; for that step
did not in the smallest degree pledge them
to an approval of its principle. The right
hon. and learned Gentleman the Member
for the University of Dublin (Mr. Napier)
had accused him of overrating the income
of the Irish Church. He would, however,
prove that he had done no such thing.
He had stated that the permanent revenue
received by the Ecclesiastical Commission-
ers was 95,000l. per annum, and that
there was also an additional revenue of
15,000l. per annum not of the same per-
manent character. Now, this was actu-
ally quoted from Archdeacon Stopford's
book, and he had it on better authority
even than that, for it was stated in the
last Report of the Commissioners them-
selves. Then, again, he stated the income
of the archbishops and bishops at 68,0007.
That also was taken from a paper which
must have been supplied by the Ecclesias-

T SHEE said, he consi-
titled to call the attention
o any subject in which a
ey were interested, but
when he had been charged
tements and exaggeration,
to vindicate himself. He
at once to reply to what
1 by the opponents of the
-House would recollect
troduced this question he
I was to transfer a portion
come of the Irish clergy
ed Church to Commission-
Presbyterians and Roman
e purpose of employing it
ilar to that in which the
Commissioners for Ireland
e portion of their revenue
-ebuilding, repairing, and
aces of worship for the
nd Catholic communities.
hat the accounts of such
should be laid before the
, and that they should be
ne Crown. He had also
us statistics, and quoted
Dr. Paley and Bishop
at the Established Church
failed in its object, and he
that, there being at the
2,000 members of that
a population of 6,500,000,
the object of civil utility,
, according to the opinion
urton, a Church establish-
able. He had also quoted
of Lord Brougham, Lord
mpbell, the noble Lord the
Council, and the right hon.
lonial Secretary, that the
the Church Establishment
indefensible. In reply to
on. Baronet the Secretary
r J. Young) said, that the
estion only applied to the
Irish Church at a very
and not at the present
Mr. Serjeant Shee) would
ouse that those opinions
given after the settlement
Church in 1833; and that
Morpeth brought in a Bill
which differed in no ma-
except the manner in
zdy

ers for expenditu
such as surpli
er-books, &c.; a
taidering the ind
the churches of
talk of the pop
they ought to b

f such a charge.
at item, and also
earing by reducing
eshops of the
Ireland to 4,000
Rs to 2.5001. annual
onsidering the sma
Protestant populatio
ent. At presen
ut of their incomes

* of them had mo
Lord Chancellor ;
Win Ireland the Cr
patronage compar
great respect of t

74.750 were not at a lived at home

By charitable; still

he had nam